Nerf jetpacks please

BestProfileNameBestProfileName Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177320Members Posts: 448 Advanced user
If you think jetpack fuel should be nerfed, please agree with this comment. Do not awesome - let's look at agrees against disagrees. It seems like it's "try to win before jetpacks or hope they;re low on RTs etc by the time they get them" or you lose. Obviously the nuanced argument is 9 paragraphs longer but I cannot be bothered to type it all out.

It's quite tiring to have a marine be able to follow you around the entire map as an onos, or to have them fly in the air for 15 seconds straight - for 15 res with a 200dmg machine being blasted into your face.
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Comments

  • SeeVeeSeeVee Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165206Members Posts: 425 Advanced user
    you should be able to jump up and hit him ...no?
  • RoobubbaRoobubba Who you gonna call? Join Date: 2003-01-06 Member: 11930Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Posts: 3,191 Fully active user
    Please nerf teamwork, map control and upgrades as it makes my 1 hive/25 minute onos unable to kill everything in sight without taking any damage.
    For all your gorge busting needs.
    It is very strange how some1 who spend so much time makeing videos to help mans, can fall and take miror image of dark ages bourgeoisie, outdated set of belifs
    How True.
    BestProfileNameScorpion9908AurOn2[Deleted User]
  • AsmodiesAsmodies Join Date: 2004-06-17 Member: 29353Members Posts: 105
    SeeVee wrote: »
    you should be able to jump up and hit him ...no?

    Really depends actually, if they're going fast enough their hitbox is projected in the direction they are going enough to where you actually have to collide with their model to have a chance at landing a melee attack. With the fade mobility nerf someone with a JP can sit for quite a long time in the air outside of most lifeform's reach. If they have a shotgun lerks can't even approach and skulks tend to die mid-leap. The only really viable options are spiking them from afar hoping they don't chase you down, or predicting where they land for the 2 seconds it takes for JP fuel to regen enough to do it again.

    I definitely support lowering the fuel amount, rines being as mobile as lerks in the air is just another step towards a homogenized game.
    MrFangsBestProfileName
  • maD_maX_maD_maX_ Join Date: 2013-04-07 Member: 184678Members Posts: 470 Advanced user
    edited October 2013
    You should fear the SG/JP, especially 3/3... it is Powerful, but I don't think it's over powered.

    That being said I'd say current fuel is at the limit of being reasonable, such that any increase in fuel would be OP. So I would be OK with a very small reduction..,


    Also would be cool if you could sprint fly where you get a prolonged horizontal boost but no vertical lift. (Like exo's)... It should last 25% longer and reach slightly higher speeds. (Let me chase that fade)
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation Posts: 1,475 Advanced user
    Asmodies wrote: »
    SeeVee wrote: »
    you should be able to jump up and hit him ...no?

    Really depends actually, if they're going fast enough their hitbox is projected in the direction they are going enough to where you actually have to collide with their model to have a chance at landing a melee attack. With the fade mobility nerf someone with a JP can sit for quite a long time in the air outside of most lifeform's reach. If they have a shotgun lerks can't even approach and skulks tend to die mid-leap. The only really viable options are spiking them from afar hoping they don't chase you down, or predicting where they land for the 2 seconds it takes for JP fuel to regen enough to do it again.

    I definitely support lowering the fuel amount, rines being as mobile as lerks in the air is just another step towards a homogenized game.

    Aim behind not ahead.. This is NS
    mattji104
  • 1dominator11dominator1 Join Date: 2010-11-19 Member: 75011Members Posts: 1,168 Advanced user
    Its not that jet packs are op but that they are not much fun to fight as anything but fade.
  • SamusDroidSamusDroid Colorado Join Date: 2013-05-13 Member: 185219Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Posts: 2,155 mod
    edited October 2013
    It's not the fuel amount. It's the regeneration speed that needs tweaked. Not a lot. Just ever so slightly. So that touching the ground for a half second doesn't give you like 1/8 tank regeneration.
    My mods --- Watermod collaboration with Feha
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  • moultanomoultano Creator of ns_shiva. Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Posts: 4,209 Advanced user
  • BestProfileNameBestProfileName Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177320Members Posts: 448 Advanced user
    edited October 2013
    Roobubba wrote: »
    Please nerf teamwork, map control and upgrades as it makes my 1 hive/25 minute onos unable to kill everything in sight without taking any damage.

    Hi, my name is Roo and I like to miss the point.

    Edit: Just because you failed to provide an accurate counter I shouldn't lower myself. Instead, here: "Please nerf teamwork, map control and upgrades" could be used as a (pathetic) argument against any nerf in the game, past present or future and completely misses the point. It's almost as if you thought I said, "I cannot kill everything easily as an Onos so please nerf anything that contravenes that" which is utterly asinine. But it was an amusing comment. Right? Right? lols
    Roobubba
  • BestProfileNameBestProfileName Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177320Members Posts: 448 Advanced user
    SeeVee wrote: »
    you should be able to jump up and hit him ...no?

    Assuming he it within range of course. Did you think the "jump" function had eluded me? lol. I've killed a bunch of jetpackers by pretending i was low and turning around to gore them in a tight corridor around a corner. I just feel the jp shouldn't be able to have them fly for quite as long as they do because, as Asmodies says, it homogenises the gameplay too much.
  • aeroripperaeroripper Join Date: 2005-02-25 Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation Posts: 2,392 mod
  • JektJekt Join Date: 2012-02-05 Member: 143714Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,543 Advanced user
    edited October 2013
    It's not the fuel amount. It's the regeneration speed that needs tweaked. Not a lot. Just ever so slightly. So that touching the ground for a half second doesn't give you like 1/8 tank regeneration.

    Not only touching the ground, it's the fuel regeneration while falling also. A jetpack can change direction so many times while in the air without ever touching the floor because of this. Leap could be made better for tackling them though. Slightly quicker acceleration, higher force.

    I think jetpacks are pretty damn low on the list of balance and gameplay priorities though. They work pretty well overall and losing them a couple times lowers the pres across a marine team and can turn around a game in the aliens favour.

    The worst part about jetpacks for me, is how the effects of interpolation and low movement update rates (help me out here Dragon) are just magnified so heavily. You take damage from a leaping skulk bite from so far away on your screen it's laughable. Same when being chased by one as a lerk for example.
    casan0vax
  • AsmodiesAsmodies Join Date: 2004-06-17 Member: 29353Members Posts: 105
    moultano wrote: »
    lerk more.
    aeroripper wrote: »
    Jetpack is fine as is. Lerks ftw.

    SG>Lerk, JP can actually chase down lerk and negate the only weakness shottie had, which is range. JP+Shotty doesn't have a real counter right now and hard counters skulk and lerk, and situationally counters fade and onos.
    BestProfileName[AwE]Sentinelmeatmachine
  • MrPinkMrPink Join Date: 2002-05-28 Member: 678Members Posts: 1,635 Fully active user
    It's pretty easy to counter them as lerks. Even if you only have spikes, it slows them down to get their armor healed. If you have spores, then it's even easier. They can't even really damage you at range unless they have a LMG.
    Get off my plane.
    Theriusmeatmachine
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 3,447 Advanced user
    aeroripper wrote: »
    Jetpack is fine as is. Lerks ftw.

    Have fun with the shotgunners.

    And no, spikes and spores (wtf, anyway) are not always a valid option.
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect

    I am good Onos
  • NazoNazo Such Is Life in The Zone Join Date: 2010-12-16 Member: 75720Members, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold Posts: 293 Fully active user
    Leap + Celerity...

    Dunn
  • BestProfileNameBestProfileName Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177320Members Posts: 448 Advanced user
    Asmodies wrote: »
    moultano wrote: »
    lerk more.
    aeroripper wrote: »
    Jetpack is fine as is. Lerks ftw.

    SG>Lerk, JP can actually chase down lerk and negate the only weakness shottie had, which is range. JP+Shotty doesn't have a real counter right now and hard counters skulk and lerk, and situationally counters fade and onos.

    Stop using logic it will hurt their minds.
  • CD121CD121 Join Date: 2013-04-04 Member: 184635Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Posts: 88
    Jetpack is easy-mode with it's regen how it is, I will say that.
  • moultanomoultano Creator of ns_shiva. Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Posts: 4,209 Advanced user
    Even if jetpacks were currently overpowered (which I don't believe) the solution isn't to nerf them. The solution is to buff something else. Right now, jetpacks are fun. Fighting against them is fun. Jetpacks are scary as an alien in a way that few other things are. That's a good thing. I love having a jetpack, and I love fighting jetpackers. This is how it should be.
    B3rTmeatmachine
  • BobRossTheBossBobRossTheBoss Join Date: 2012-12-31 Member: 176824Members Posts: 172 Fully active user
    The regen is the only thing that needs to be tweaked in my opinion. Right now fighting a JP+Shotgun with the new fade is horribly frustrating because they regenerate their fuel way faster than you do energy, and they don't need it to attack, allowing them to stay up in the air and dodge a lot longer. And lerks? They're good for wearing down a on a jp+shotty, but not finishing it as most will just chase you away very easily. It's the fades and leap skulks that do the finishing.

    I have heard a suggestion that xeno is really nice against the new jp thanks to the huge range of it.
  • HobocopHobocop Join Date: 2010-11-23 Member: 75226Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 130
    Xenocide dominates JPs easily assuming you haven't been getting ravaged so hard that you can't get a 3rd hive up.

    Otherwise, I wouldn't be opposed to a small fuel regen reduction, because it is a little excessive at the moment.
  • maD_maX_maD_maX_ Join Date: 2013-04-07 Member: 184678Members Posts: 470 Advanced user
    I fear fades, early lerk, onos (without a JP).

    I'm careful of SG, careful of GL, careful of flames careful of Exo .... But I'm afraid of JP/SG...


    Shouldn't rines have something you fear?
  • joshhhjoshhh Milwaukee, WI Join Date: 2011-06-21 Member: 105717Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester Posts: 1,437 Advanced user
    They do.
    Mucous membrane/enzyme spam in your face.
    casan0vaxSide1Bu2Rnz9
  • EucomolhamasEucomolhamas Join Date: 2013-03-10 Member: 183841Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 120 Advanced user
    With some practice, I've gotten pretty good as an alien against SG/JP, especially fade and lerk (from which lerk seems to be better atm in my opinion). The key is to keep moving fast and unpredictably to avoid full shots, try to hit him once, get cover and repeat.

    Of course this will be hard if the marine gets medpacks, but most of the time just keeping that marine busy in one place with no armor can really help your team.
  • RoobubbaRoobubba Who you gonna call? Join Date: 2003-01-06 Member: 11930Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Posts: 3,191 Fully active user
    Roobubba wrote: »
    Please nerf teamwork, map control and upgrades as it makes my 1 hive/25 minute onos unable to kill everything in sight without taking any damage.

    Hi, my name is Roo and I like to miss the point.

    Edit: Just because you failed to provide an accurate counter I shouldn't lower myself. Instead, here: "Please nerf teamwork, map control and upgrades" could be used as a (pathetic) argument against any nerf in the game, past present or future and completely misses the point. It's almost as if you thought I said, "I cannot kill everything easily as an Onos so please nerf anything that contravenes that" which is utterly asinine. But it was an amusing comment. Right? Right? lols

    The 17:1 ratio of dislikes to likes in your op speaks for how your suggestion has been received. Combinations of lifeforms working together are required to take down a jp/sg (38 res assuming a welder), much like what is required to take down a good fade. Delaying the enemy's resource flow is a central part of this game. Jp/sg plus upgrades represents a significant res expenditure, and takes considerable time to research. Instead of nerfing the jp, how about a marginal buff to the emasculated onos, or perhaps a slight boost to the higher biomass health bonus? There are better ways to address the problem that you perceive (late game Marines are powerful, but they have to earn it).

    I got the point you were making, I'm afraid it just wasn't a valid one, as the response to your op suggests.
    For all your gorge busting needs.
    It is very strange how some1 who spend so much time makeing videos to help mans, can fall and take miror image of dark ages bourgeoisie, outdated set of belifs
    How True.
  • AsmodiesAsmodies Join Date: 2004-06-17 Member: 29353Members Posts: 105
    I'd completely disagree that lerk/fade/onos take more than one person to take down. JP+shotgun is more potent than all of those, aside from the onos's ability to suicide into a base to try to break it completely. A fade can be taken down by 1 jp+shotgun, I'd definitely argue since the fade nerf that jp+sg > fade, so 50+ res lifeform can be chased down and taken down by 38 res, and lerks are just food for jp+sg and really easy to chase.

    jp+shotgun just doesn't have a counter, you really don't have to be careful of anything in specific other than just getting mobbed but for 1:1 potency that 38 res rine can cause just as much havoc/res damage as an onos.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,677 Advanced user
    edited October 2013
    If you think jetpack fuel should be nerfed, please agree with this comment. Do not awesome - let's look at agrees against disagrees....snip... Obviously the nuanced argument is 9 paragraphs longer but I cannot be bothered to type it all out.
    ...snip...

    I think its time you start writing at least 3 of those 9 paragraphs.
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
  • dragonmithdragonmith Join Date: 2013-02-04 Member: 182817Members, Reinforced - Diamond Posts: 429 Fully active user
    Webs? Are they a jetpack counter yet?
    Howser is da BEST!
  • AsmodiesAsmodies Join Date: 2004-06-17 Member: 29353Members Posts: 105
    dragonmith wrote: »
    Webs? Are they a jetpack counter yet?
    They'll never be unless the biomass requirement is reduced to 4-5 and they're given their own button to be used in combat instead of being assigned to the build menu. Plus everything breaks them, nades, flamer, GL, dunno if they even affect exo. They're really not relevant right now.
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