Why cant duel rail exos charge up at the same time?

McBernsMcBerns Join Date: 2013-08-04 Member: 186563Members
edited September 2013 in NS2 General Discussion
In one of the video tips, it showed that you can charge them up at the same time, but not in the game?
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Comments

  • GhoulofGSG9GhoulofGSG9 Join Date: 2013-03-31 Member: 184566Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter, Pistachionauts
    edited September 2013
    I think it was changed due to balance. But this will maybe change in the future again.
  • HobocopHobocop Join Date: 2010-11-23 Member: 75226Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    You can, but the second rail will only charge up about 1/4 of the way before the first automatically fires.

    Good single rails can already be a real pain for anything below an onos. I don't think we're going to want something that CAN one-shot lerks and practically one-shot fades.
  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    Hitting something with both rails at the same time is stupidly overpowered which is why dual railguns were never allowed before. This seems like a good compromise.
  • AurOn2AurOn2 COOKIES! FREEDOM, AND BISCUITS! Australia Join Date: 2012-01-13 Member: 140224Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Forum staff
    Changed after the dual railgun was released. good god it was fun, but yeah, as others have said.. balanss.
  • CyberKunCyberKun Join Date: 2013-02-02 Member: 182733Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    SamusDroid wrote: »
    Obviously so you can't 1 shot half the alien lifeforms all game.

    Fixed.
  • McBernsMcBerns Join Date: 2013-08-04 Member: 186563Members
    edited September 2013
    So they sacrificed fun for balance? Perhaps they could had thought of something around it to keep it. One way to think of this is that if anything is OP, bump up the pres by a margin. I have not seen any marine player use dual rail exos at all lately.

    I thought up of these possibilities.

    - Exos with duel rail guns should have a slower charging time if done at the same time
    Or
    - Bring back simultaneous rail gun charge, and bump up the cost of a duel rail gun exo by 15 pres or so, making this the most expensive buy in the game


  • Blarney_StoneBlarney_Stone Join Date: 2013-03-08 Member: 183808Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    It is possible to fire both at once, but one of them will only be at 1/4 of the charge, so the most damage you can do instantaneously this 1.25 times the max damage of one. Which makes sense considering double damage instantly would 1-shot most lifeforms.
  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    McBerns wrote: »
    So they sacrificed fun for balance? Perhaps they could had thought of something around it to keep it. One way to think of this is that if anything is OP, bump up the pres by a margin. I have not seen any marine player use dual rail exos at all lately.

    I thought up of these possibilities.

    - Exos with duel rail guns should have a slower charging time if done at the same time
    Or
    - Bring back simultaneous rail gun charge, and bump up the cost of a duel rail gun exo by 15 pres or so, making this the most expensive buy in the game


    Fun goes both ways you know. I don't see any way to make an infinite range one-shot kill fun for the aliens.
  • HeatSurgeHeatSurge Some Guy Join Date: 2012-09-15 Member: 159438Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    CyberKun wrote: »
    SamusDroid wrote: »
    Obviously so you can't 1 shot half the alien lifeforms all game.

    Fixed.

    There's 5 lifeforms, so the innacuracy of this statement bothers my OCD. 60% sounds a lot better. Alot. Like this one:

    ALOT.png
  • xen32xen32 Join Date: 2012-10-18 Member: 162676Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    Not being able to charge at the same time feels so unnatural, I never picked DR in actual game.
  • HobocopHobocop Join Date: 2010-11-23 Member: 75226Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited September 2013
    I'm sure it would be fun for aliens when nearly all of the lifeforms get deleted instantly all the time when dual rails hit the field.

    That isn't even considering the fact that railguns have massive penetration and can hit multiple targets. That kind of weapon can't be balanced if it deals that much damage at once with perfect accuracy even if it cost 100 pres.
  • meatmachinemeatmachine South England Join Date: 2013-01-06 Member: 177858Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    How freaking hard would it be to reduce the individual railgun shot dmg on dual-rails so the total damage is like 150% a single railgun shot or something. Seems like a no-brainer to me.
  • NeokenNeoken Bruges, Belgium Join Date: 2004-03-20 Member: 27447Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester
    edited September 2013
    How freaking hard would it be to reduce the individual railgun shot dmg on dual-rails so the total damage is like 150% a single railgun shot or something. Seems like a no-brainer to me.
    And then people would complain why the hell a dual exo railgun shot is weaker than a single exo.

    I think the current system is the best solution. You can still cause major damage to any lifeform other than an onos. You just have to hit twice instead of one-shotting.
  • dragonmithdragonmith Join Date: 2013-02-04 Member: 182817Members, Reinforced - Diamond
    It's hard to get a rhythm going with duel rails, they fire in such a weird pattern :(

    There must be SOMETHING we can do? right?
  • Anti94Anti94 Join Date: 2013-07-31 Member: 186489Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    It is good to see that UWE is really focused on balance BUT they always sacrifice consistency for balance. Lack of consistency makes the game hard to understand/learn. If people don't understand the mechanics of the game, it can't be balanced efficiently.

    Hence, I find it stupid to limit the use of the dual exos (both rail gun and minigun). Why couldn't I charge both railguns at the same time ? Why are my miniguns heating so quickly when I fire them both at the same time ? I am talking about consistency here, not balance.

    If balance is a problem then UWE should find an other solution, a solution that doesn't kill consistency. If UWE can't find a solution that is both balanced AND consistent then maybe the solution is just to remove dual wielded exos.

    I am sure that all of you would find it abusive if UWE sacrificed balance for consistency. You should also find it abusive when they sacrifice consistency for balance.

    [\offtopic on]
    There are so many inconsistent things in this game. For instance, the infestation damages marine structures. I am ok with this idea but I am not ok with the fact that it stops dealing damage to structures after a while. I know the reason : balance. Infestation only destroys strutures' armor, but it makes no sense. UWE has to make a choice here:
    -Infestation kills structures
    -Infestation deals no damage to structures at all.
    There is no middle ground.
    [\offtopic off]
  • SammeySammey Join Date: 2012-06-14 Member: 153266Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited September 2013
    How freaking hard would it be to reduce the individual railgun shot dmg on dual-rails so the total damage is like 150% a single railgun shot or something. Seems like a no-brainer to me.
    I agree with this but Neoken makes a good points. It will be weird that the single shots suddenly do less damage when you have two railguns..
    I just don't like the current solution. It isn't clear enough.

    What if you have complete freedom in when you want to fire your left or right railgun, but the closer you sequence the second shot to the first shot, the less damage it does.
    Some 'energy pool' indicator would indicate the expected damage output.

    It will give total freedom:

    -You can fire both railguns simultaniously with a total damage output of something like 120%. ( insert a value that is not too OP )
    -You can chain your shots allowing you to quickly fire two fully charged shots sequentially with a little less damage pers hot. ( damage scaled according to time between the shots )
  • _Necro__Necro_ Join Date: 2011-02-15 Member: 81895Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    What about a long cool down, when firing both rail guns at the same time (or shortly after)?

    It could be visualized by a flickering HUD. The Exo needs to regenerate it's energy after such a shot. Would make it vulnerable after the shot and easy to communicate.
  • GhoulofGSG9GhoulofGSG9 Join Date: 2013-03-31 Member: 184566Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter, Pistachionauts
    In the Beta Test there was a interesting solution: Both guns used the same energy pool, therefore loading both railguns tooked quiet long comparing to load gun 1> hold > load gun 2 > fire gun 1 >....
  • RoobubbaRoobubba Who you gonna call? Join Date: 2003-01-06 Member: 11930Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    HeatSurge wrote: »
    CyberKun wrote: »
    SamusDroid wrote: »
    Obviously so you can't 1 shot half the alien lifeforms all game.

    Fixed.

    There's 5 lifeforms, so the innacuracy of this statement bothers my OCD. 60% sounds a lot better. Alot. Like this one:

    ALOT.png

    A lot: 2 words.

    The use of 'alot' bothers my OCD.

    :D
  • RoobubbaRoobubba Who you gonna call? Join Date: 2003-01-06 Member: 11930Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    _Necro_ wrote: »
    What about a long cool down, when firing both rail guns at the same time (or shortly after)?

    It could be visualized by a flickering HUD. The Exo needs to regenerate it's energy after such a shot. Would make it vulnerable after the shot and easy to communicate.

    The trouble with this is that after the shot, the damage has already been done! However, umbra (and bone shield?) help against railguns. But 100% damage from each shot simultaneously would be absolutely obscene. I'd love it... but only as a marine!
  • _Necro__Necro_ Join Date: 2011-02-15 Member: 81895Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Mhh... yeah that won't do the trick. What is with the idea from beta that GhoulofGSG9 mentioned? Maybe with a loud powering sound this can get balanced?

    Oh and railguns pierce bone shields.
  • AurOn2AurOn2 COOKIES! FREEDOM, AND BISCUITS! Australia Join Date: 2012-01-13 Member: 140224Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Forum staff
    How about we simplify this silly thing instead of it having so much complexity to the damn affair

    Charge one railgun 100% dmg for that one railgun
    Charge 2 railguns, 75% dmg for individual railgun, 150% total dmg if both hit.

    Don't need hidden "you can't charge atm, silly!" things.

    Also, have it so that the dual miniguns run like this.
    ALSO ALSO, give us a battery pack icon which shows us % of dmg! YES! Super future weapons RUN OFF BATTERY PAKS! IT IS THE FUTURE!
    ....
    That is all.
  • soccerguy243soccerguy243 Join Date: 2012-12-22 Member: 175920Members, WC 2013 - Supporter
    McBerns wrote: »
    So they sacrificed fun for balance? Perhaps they could had thought of something around it to keep it. One way to think of this is that if anything is OP, bump up the pres by a margin. I have not seen any marine player use dual rail exos at all lately.

    I thought up of these possibilities.

    - Exos with duel rail guns should have a slower charging time if done at the same time
    Or
    - Bring back simultaneous rail gun charge, and bump up the cost of a duel rail gun exo by 15 pres or so, making this the most expensive buy in the game

    it won't be fun if aliens are getting one shotted from across the room.

  • meatmachinemeatmachine South England Join Date: 2013-01-06 Member: 177858Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    Jesus christ, is it so hard to simply curtail the damage of the individual dualrail shots so the total damage output can only be for example 150% that of a single regular railgun shot?
  • MMZ_TorakMMZ_Torak Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 3770Members
    Jesus christ, is it so hard to simply curtail the damage of the individual dualrail shots so the total damage output can only be for example 150% that of a single regular railgun shot?

    Probably not, but at what cost?

  • MestaritonttuMestaritonttu Join Date: 2004-07-29 Member: 30229Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
    edited September 2013
    All your suggestions are poopy.

    Prepare yourself to bask in the awesomeness of my suggestion:
    I would LOVE to see dual-rail railguns have TWICE the rate of fire, but HALF the damage of a 1 rail exo. Then you would no longer need to lock the recharge of the 2nd gun, as double rail whammies would only make 1 rail exo worth of damage - but with twice the rate of fire. It would LOOK awesome, dual rail whammies all day long or 1st and 2nd gun taking turns with double rate of normal fire, PEW PEW PEW PEW!

    Sure, it wouldn't make much sense that having 2 of the same gun would alter the guns properties -Oh no wait, nanites.
    Feel free to prostate thyself in order to show proper reverence towards my awesomeness.
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
    Make them more expensive, nerf health and speed of railgun?
    Nerf turningspeed more?
  • GeekavengerGeekavenger Join Date: 2012-08-31 Member: 157117Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    How about a total power meter that can overload and cause a cool down with no attack. So each rail gun consumes 60% (or whatever is balanced) of the total power meter, so if you want to fire both at ~90% charge it requires more skill and timing, but if you want to charge and hold one gun you can hold that one charged for as long as you want (or like how it works now, it just fires after a set time).
  • Racer1Racer1 Join Date: 2002-11-22 Member: 9615Members
    Other options:
    - Make the second railgun do a different damage type (with different colored laser). It could be specifically geared toward armor damage or something.
    - Make the second gun be minigun only (no dual rails)
    - Make usage of both rails at (close to) the same time cause the exo to instantly overheat, similar to miniguns. This would still allow one shot kills, but make it very vulnerable for the next 5-10 seconds.
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