If the Reinforcement Program is successful, what's next? And is that a good thing? (Discuss!)

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  • joohoo_n3djoohoo_n3d Members, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Supporter Join Date: 2012-10-30 Member: 164703Posts: 216 Fully active user
    ooh i got a goody!
    ...add skulk ability to grab & hold a marine and slow him until a second skulk arrives then the marine is torn in half!
    ...the skulk may run out of energy/stamina and loses his bite/grip breaking the entire action for both skulks
    ...skulks may be knocked off by butt of gun, grenade, or a magic cheeseburger idk
    oh the fun!
    TitaniusAnglesmith
  • zeqzeq Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2012-02-14 Member: 145493Posts: 66 Fully active user
    Damn, I just realized Reinforced would have been the perfect name for a patch including weldables.
    So some ideas I would like to see
    -weldable doors/vents/etc.
    -moving structures that can be interacted with. Could act as an alien counterpart to the weldables, as if a room loses power that may shut off a moving platform to get to another area, limiting marine mobility the same way welding doors reduces alien mobility. Both could be overcome by high teir tech, such as jetpacks or the onos. This does seem a little much to add retroactively into the game, but perhaps tools for future map designs, or eventual development of NS3 in 2022.
    -Power starts prebuilt, but maybe needs to be turned on before powering structures, allowing aliens to munch down power before marines come into an area. This would be especially cool with the removal of emergency lighting in the balance mod so rooms are always dark.
    -Allow infestation to completely destroy marine structures. Not much impact, but helps to discourage phase gates into hives, as well as autokilling the power in a room after aliens have had it for a while. Would work especially well with the previous suggestion, so the alien starting locations power down pretty early into the game.
    -One or two new weapons for marines would be great, though I am not sure what. The hmg maybe?
    -Give the riflebutt knockback again.
    -The ability for the commander to form squads would be kind of cool. The comm could mark a group of people as a squad, and they would each see each other's names appear in a corner of their screen as well as showing their name in a different color. Additionally the commander could save squads as a control group to quickly go to the room that squad is most present in. That way the comm would be able to better organized people in pubs.
    -Voting for map changes in the base game is pretty pointless. Nobody wants to go through the load times again right after changing maps, which is when the vote typically is. It would be nice to have map votes take place at the end of a map cycle, with advancing next in cycle being the default option if there isn't a winner. I think there is at least one server mod that does this.
    -A few mods like Avoid Reserved Slots or the one that adds the selected model to the menu screen are just general improvements to the game and would be nice to see incorporated in.
    -And of course Discovery sounds like an awesome map. Adding some pristine white textures to the color pallet would be very nice.
  • foolfoolzfoolfoolz Members Join Date: 2013-01-24 Member: 181835Posts: 23
    Hugh wrote: »
    What would you guys like to see?

    A vision for how UWE stays in business. Something like make more money from NS2. Make a new game. License software.... anything that gives us some indication you guys will be around in 2014. The reinforcement program is a pretty dark forecast.
    meatmachine
  • carlgmcarlgm Members, Constellation Join Date: 2004-08-26 Member: 30907Posts: 101
    foolfoolz wrote: »
    Hugh wrote: »
    What would you guys like to see?

    A vision for how UWE stays in business. Something like make more money from NS2. Make a new game. License software.... anything that gives us some indication you guys will be around in 2014. The reinforcement program is a pretty dark forecast.

    Well, you haven't properly understood the program then. I'd suggest re-reading it and then also watching the Youtube video where Hugh was interviewed on it.
    Mattk50
  • ForlornHopeForlornHope Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold Join Date: 2003-08-01 Member: 18675Posts: 226 Fully active user
    foolfoolz wrote: »
    A vision for how UWE stays in business. Something like make more money from NS2. Make a new game. License software.... anything that gives us some indication you guys will be around in 2014. The reinforcement program is a pretty dark forecast.

    I really wouldn't worry about that. Charlie spent ages trying to working hard to get the funding and investment together for NS2. He really wont want to go back to those day when he has the team and resources he has now. I'm guessing he has had a plan all along to save a set amount of money to make their next project happen. There is no way they've blown their taking from NS2 yet.
    Space Hero / Alien Throttler / Sex Icon
    NarfwakHamlet
  • zeqzeq Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2012-02-14 Member: 145493Posts: 66 Fully active user

    I really wouldn't worry about that. Charlie spent ages trying to working hard to get the funding and investment together for NS2. He really wont want to go back to those day when he has the team and resources he has now. I'm guessing he has had a plan all along to save a set amount of money to make their next project happen. There is no way they've blown their taking from NS2 yet.

    Yeah, the reinforced program is just to cover their predicted costs if they continue NS2 development fulltime. Other than that they have plenty of money and should they not reach the reinforced goal, then they will just shift development primarily over to a new game. This is all just securing future funds, and isn't indicative of dire straits like a lot of people seem to be thinking. If NS2 can continue to generate money as per their needs, then they will continue with it, otherwise it will be set on the sidelines.
    Narfwak
  • GinasticGinastic Members Join Date: 2012-11-07 Member: 168125Posts: 9
    a new multiplayer game!
  • moultanomoultano Creator of ns_shiva. Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10806Posts: 4,219 Advanced user
    edited September 2013
    I'd like to see a new game mode that changes the objectives on the map, but not the tech tree or basic mechanics. I'm thinking of the sort of things that starcraft does with the campaign, where essentially as a player you are doing your rts fundamentals, but there's something else involved other than wiping out the other side.

    These sort of things require a minimal amount of additional art for the amount of gameplay they provide, and they don't conflict with the main game as much because the tech tree and combat are the same.

    An example idea:

    Sample Extraction - Marines start on the other side of the map from the "dropship model" (which is conveniently in most maps) or the "elevator" in a normal techpoint. The objective is carry the "bacterium sample" from the marine start location to the dropship. The bacterium show up on hivesight since it is part of the hive. The game is otherwise the same.

    The goal is not to make it feel much different from the main game, but instead to add new sources of drama to it.
    meatmachine
  • MorshuMorshu Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2012-08-13 Member: 155539Posts: 84 Fully active user
    edited September 2013
    Hurray we're pass 20% of the total sum of cash needed in only 7 days! (110.000 bucks that is)

    EDIT: Quick question, what will UWE do with the funds raised through the reinforcement program if it does not quite reach 550.000 bucks? Will they use the funds we'll be talking about by then and add whatever they can add to NS2 with the funds? or what's the plan in such a case? :o
    -Lamp oil? rope? bombs? you want it? it's yours my friend as long as you have enough P.res!
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  • OkxydOkxyd Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2012-02-06 Member: 143981Posts: 57
    edited September 2013
    Could not be more agreed with @Mouse said. In my POV there is enough "content", I'm happy with what UWE did the last months but if you do too much you hurt the game.

    On another subject: Things like Gorge Tunnels, Grenades, Railgun, definitely improve the game. However there is still things that need works and are not fixed since the first release like weird physics/hit detection of grenades/GL, the " always crouching fade" (I see no problem to perma press Ctrl but is not a bit dumb ?) and a bunch of little misconceptions with you deal but always add frustration.

    For me the road is clear: continue balance and optimization, but I'm totally against having next 6 months like last 6 months, I don't want new mechanics, I want the actual ones be tweaked and become better.

    To finish I want to speak about maps, UWE has definitely a card to play on this point. There is ton of community maps but I rarely see one, I think it would be a great deal to include them in the beta process to give more motivation and feedbacks to the mappers and finally release them as community mappacks.


    Concerning UWE next game, I trust them, I'm pretty sure they have a ton of concept after developping NS2 during 7 years.
  • zeqzeq Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2012-02-14 Member: 145493Posts: 66 Fully active user
    Morshu wrote: »
    Quick question, what will UWE do with the funds raised through the reinforcement program if it does not quite reach 550.000 bucks? Will they use the funds we'll be talking about by then and add whatever they can add to NS2 with the funds? or what's the plan in such a case? :o

    My guess is that whatever money they collect won't be set aside in some special place, but rather how much they collect will determine their business plan for the next six months or so. The more they collect the larger focus on NS2 there will be, and if they hit their end goal they will work on another big content patch. That is how I interpreted the reinforcement program.
    Hamlet
  • KarbaKarba Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Gold Join Date: 2006-09-23 Member: 58040Posts: 175
    I would like to see:

    - Weldeable doors and vents.
    - More maps (Eclipse ftw)
    - Customised face and race.
    - Hmg and focus return.
    - Official support for Combat Mod.
  • NazoNazo Such Is Life in The ZoneMembers, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold Join Date: 2010-12-16 Member: 75720Posts: 293 Fully active user
    If it's successful

    I want a "Hunt the Hughnicorn" GameMode
  • TheRev709TheRev709 Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186330Posts: 15
    edited September 2013
    Figured I'd add in my thoughts now that I kinda got the ball rollin.

    If the the Reinforcement Program is successful:

    I'd like it to be a major focus on stability, optimization, and tool sets. Really invest into the Spark engine while supporting NS2. If UW can license out this engine (which is pretty sweet) it can really help UW grow exponentially. In a perfect world they'd be able to continue work on the Natural Selection franchise and their Spark engine. However, given their size I think it's more realistic at this point to devote their resources on the engine.

    "So...wait? What about if the program doesn't raise the 550k?" They should still focus heavily on Spark and licensing it out. Yup, either way I think that should be their number one move. Creating a new game can take years, anywhere from 3 to 5 most likely. Spark is a product they already have developed. Polish it up, develop better toolsets, and optimize the hell out of it.

    The reverse kickstarter is a very creative idea, and I supported it as much as I could. It may work once, but I doubt they could keep it going (i.e. a new reinforced program every six months). Ultimately they'll have to move on, and it's better to get the ball rolling now. If Spark can be a success the options are limitless. Who knows, maybe they'd be able to grow so much they'd be able to work on the Natural Selection franchise, Spark, and a new IP.

    However, things I would like to see in NS2 assuming they did continue to add new content:

    Interactive environments. A lot of people have already mentioned opening/locking doors, welding vents, etc. and of course reasons why those features were removed. However, I think those would be great additions and their effectiveness would be up to a good level designer.

    However, I think it should go farther: imagine in Refinery you can flood an entire deck or walkway with molten steel. Cracking through an already damaged window and create a vacuum into space. Taking control of a central command point will give that team the ability to operate tram/crane controls that can unlock new pathways.

    Sure, it opens a whole can of worms in terms of game balance, but with good planning and experienced level designers anything is possible. Ultimately, this would allow literally every game of NS to be fresh and a new experience each time.
  • MMZ_TorakMMZ_Torak Members Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 3770Posts: 1,866 Advanced user
    Wisp wrote: »
    Of course, there are the real hardcore guys who have been playing since NS1 in 2002, I think.

    Who's been around that long?

    :-B :-\" :D
    Auto correct, I am tired of your shirt!
  • cpt000cpt000 Members Join Date: 2013-08-28 Member: 187152Posts: 104 Fully active user
    Right now: taking damage is like some kind of abstract mathematical event. Just 2 constructs interacting with each other, based on rules set up by devs.

    Here's what I'd like to see: visible blood and gore on marines.

    First hit from a skulk/lerk: gaping hole, maybe with entrails. Blood everywhere. Fatal hit: Torn armor, savage rip down the torso.

    First hit from fade: scythe penetration through torso marine. Fatal hit: marine severed in half/decapitated.
  • JCDentonJCDenton Members Join Date: 2013-03-07 Member: 183768Posts: 31
    edited September 2013
    I am not sure who posted it, but I agree with giving every marine weapon an Alt Fire as something that should be done.
  • NiwatoriNiwatori Members, Constellation Join Date: 2006-11-21 Member: 58695Posts: 4
  • TheRev709TheRev709 Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186330Posts: 15
    MMZ_Torak wrote: »
    Wisp wrote: »
    Of course, there are the real hardcore guys who have been playing since NS1 in 2002, I think.

    Who's been around that long?

    :-B :-\" :D

    This_guy.jpg
  • RMJRMJ Members Join Date: 2012-08-09 Member: 155190Posts: 181 Advanced user
    edited September 2013
    What i really think the game and the devs need, is something like TF2. one can say much about that game, but the whole weapons and hats is so popular.

    Im not sure if it would be possible to do anything like that to drag in more people.

    One thing that is also a bit of a downside, is that rounds are very long, i really really hate having to leave a game before a round is over, but way to often it just goes on we are talking like beyond 1½hour, very rarely do i have 2 hours without having to do something, that means leaving, that means i dont get to see if we win or lose :S to me that is just really unsatisfying.

    Normally we talk about games being dumbed down. I do believe NS2 is one of the most hardcore games out there atm. that will rival the old Counter strike.

    It might not be possible, but it would be nice if it is possible to make NS2 easier to get into. I mean play to much i still get quite overwhelmed quite easy. maybe there is just more TEAM in NS2 than in teamfortress 2 lol, at least public server wise at any rate.

    But maybe if people could make skins and they would get some money and UWE would get some money.

    Would it be possible with a Deathmatch mode or something that is easier for new player to play perhaps, or just to spice things up, it was just a pure kill team deathmatch on different kinda maps.

    But talking about gameplay wise, something that would be nice, always when i join a game, and i dont know the maps people are screaming on went to go here and there and i spend like 30 sec to look at the map then even to get there. It would be nice if they could like put down a marker to where they want me to go and a path from where i am to where they want me to go would be viable on the ground so i dont have to run 10 meters pull out minimap and repeat.

    But maybe its just me that so terrible.
  • driestdriest GermanyMembers, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter Join Date: 2013-02-21 Member: 183251Posts: 79
    So this whole talk about committing resources to a new game if the program is successful is a bit of a problem I think. Gorgeous and Reinforced where great things content wise, but very unwise decisions in a strategic sense if you plan on moving to another project full time soon. Very basic things like performance, bugs, public server stacking and a functional binding system are still horrible and will require a substantial amount of work to be fixed. If you plan on using this engine for your next project (which would be a wise thing to do, creating an engine for one game and then abandoning it half finished would be wasteful), you should ideally have a stable engine to work with. Otherwise you will also have a buggy next project where, again, you will have to fix basic problems like input lag and micro stutters or horrible server performance 1 year after launch...

    I think the reinforcement program is a great chance to finally fix NS2 to a point where people without a 1000$ gaming rig can play, public play is more enjoyable and you have a stable engine for future projects to work with. But spending more resources on new weapons, traits and shiny new toys? This is the exact reason I did not donate yet. It will only hurt the game even more.

    Perhaps this isn't even your goal and you do intend to improve the engine with the reinforcement money. If so, I apologize for complaining here and will instantly buy the shadow tier (which I think many people will do). I simply couldn't find any developer statement on what is actually going to happen with the money. The only "official" statement was Hugh, saying if successful another "reinforcement" like patch will be produced. Since this is not what I want (In fact reinforced has been the worst patch in the entire NS2 history since build what stability and performance is concerned), I won't donate until there is an official statement what exactly will happen with the money.
    Come and join us on Teamplay FTW NS2 server ! The only German server where people know how to use microphones ;)
    Hamlet
  • blackpiranhablackpiranha GermanyMembers, Constellation Join Date: 2003-03-11 Member: 14375Posts: 286
    edited September 2013
    nothing too fancy basically get the game on good performance, better HUD/UI for overview or cleanup and some alien-side improvements

    - more NS1 map comebacks to official mapcycle like Tanith and Eclipse (I think both maps are being worked on inofficially)
    - improvements for alien commander (UI and gameplay wise, have more influence on the map, better overview, clean up HUD)
    - improve the Minimap (C) -> better outlines, make structures more visible, add more details to it
    - further improve performance and loading times
    - reduce the chamber madness
    - add alien hivesight
    - add custom crosshairs
    - add player skin preview in menu
    - add a basic squad system for marines (this means have different colors, a certain control group, basically just for commander)
    - bring player badges mod to the game (use it on all servers)

    these id like to see the most
    bp.de
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    hozzRedSword
  • KamamuraKamamura Members, Reinforced - Gold Join Date: 2013-03-06 Member: 183736Posts: 669 Advanced user
    What next?

    First remove that dreadful marine strafe jump that ruins lives, destroys families and makes our society a desperate place to live (TM).
    Each day, hundreds of enthusiastic new players rush to join the ranks of the TSF to protect the universe, our beloved and the values of our society from the alien menace.

    Glory to the TSF! Glory to Arstotzka ! Glory to the mods!
    VetinariTitaniusAnglesmith
  • maD_maX_maD_maX_ Members Join Date: 2013-04-07 Member: 184678Posts: 470 Advanced user
    edited September 2013
    MMZ_Torak wrote: »
    Wisp wrote: »
    Of course, there are the real hardcore guys who have been playing since NS1 in 2002, I think.

    Who's been around that long?

    :-B :-\" :D


    Hardcore? No. Addicted? Yes.


    On that note, in ns1 combat we had environmental interactions. One of the maps had a winter outside that slowly took health, a different map had air locks, and let's not forget crossfires nuke... These would be sweet in combat and in small instances fun for normal.

  • driestdriest GermanyMembers, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter Join Date: 2013-02-21 Member: 183251Posts: 79
    Awesome! In this case I apologize for my rant and will instantly purchase the shadow tier ;)
    Come and join us on Teamplay FTW NS2 server ! The only German server where people know how to use microphones ;)
  • Blarney_StoneBlarney_Stone Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2013-03-08 Member: 183808Posts: 1,037
    driest wrote: »
    Perhaps this isn't even your goal and you do intend to improve the engine with the reinforcement money.
    While future content is still up in the air, I can assure you that at the moment, on the programming side, all of the focus for quite some time to come is on performance, stability, and bug fixing, not on adding new content and features.

    What about ongoing balancing of existing content?
    if it keeps on raining the levee's going to break
  • hozzhozz Members Join Date: 2012-11-20 Member: 172660Posts: 340 Fully active user
    nothing too fancy basically get the game on good performance, better HUD/UI for overview or cleanup and some alien-side improvements

    - more NS1 map comebacks to official mapcycle like Tanith and Eclipse (I think both maps are being worked on inofficially)
    - improvements for alien commander (UI and gameplay wise, have more influence on the map, better overview, clean up HUD)
    - improve the Minimap (C) -> better outlines, make structures more visible, add more details to it
    - further improve performance and loading times
    - reduce the chamber madness
    - add alien hivesight
    - add custom crosshairs
    - add player skin preview in menu
    - add a basic squad system for marines (this means have different colors, a certain control group, basically just for commander)
    - bring player badges mod to the game (use it on all servers)

    these id like to see the most
    Holy **** this is a great post.

    NS2 needs further gameplay balancing, but most of all polishing for more convenience. Keybinds, crosshairs, fix the loading screen, etc - things like that.
  • 2cough2cough Rocky Mountain HighMembers, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter Join Date: 2013-03-14 Member: 183952Posts: 1,025 Advanced user
    I think tanith and eclipse (especially tanith) do need a pretty decent rework to be very viable. Tanith is pretty tough for aliens right now if marines can get out of base pretty quick. Hard to hold res. But cheers to performance improvement, and lookin forward to whatever else may come down the line (now that i'm no longer crashing).
  • joshhhjoshhh Milwaukee, WIMembers, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester Join Date: 2011-06-21 Member: 105717Posts: 1,437 Advanced user
    I'm sure small balance tweaks will be implemented along side the performance increases. As long as nothing additional gets added to the game for a while, I will be content.
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