In my eyes this skill system is just bad for the game...
1. It encourages players to farm rookies. Just look at the servers the Top "skilled" players play at. It's UWE officials most of the time. Don't really wanna know how many rookies quit the game because of the nice experience you gave them @BestProfileName... Looking at your 1200+ score most of the games I would suggest you try to play on at least a little higher skilled servers or just sign up for some gathers maybe in case you are still playing this game.
2. In case winning/loosing plays a big role for the score it could lead to more stacking.
3. Since K/D is obviously importand it makes players play for their K/D instead of playing for the team. "Oh, pg under attack? Better not phase, I could die".
(4. Public and competitive play not seperated? Most high lvl comp players have way worse skill than decent pub players, since they play gathers/pcw's a lot. Luckily most comp players don't care about skill rankings...)
That would be a good idea to have a filter on moded server in the game. Just saying.
Not a good idea. People are mod scared enough. Back when they were yellow it was impossible to have mods on a server. Admin mods, quality of life mods, etc. MODS ARE GOOD ya hear.
It works the other way. If players want to connect on servers in which stats will be uploaded (meaning UWE filter passed) then they should be able to see it.
That would be a good idea to have a filter on moded server in the game. Just saying.
Not a good idea. People are mod scared enough. Back when they were yellow it was impossible to have mods on a server. Admin mods, quality of life mods, etc. MODS ARE GOOD ya hear.
It works the other way. If players want to connect on servers in which stats will be uploaded (meaning UWE filter passed) then they should be able to see it.
I just wouldn't want to filter servers out because they have mods. I do not have a problem finding hive servers, although I don't seek them out. Making the servers show that they are hive somehow in game wouldn't be a bad idea. Maybe put a little logo on the loading screen opposite of the VAC SECURED logo.
In my eyes this skill system is just bad for the game...
1. It encourages players to farm rookies. Just look at the servers the Top "skilled" players play at. It's UWE officials most of the time. Don't really wanna know how many rookies quit the game because of the nice experience you gave them @BestProfileName... Looking at your 1200+ score most of the games I would suggest you try to play on at least a little higher skilled servers or just sign up for some gathers maybe in case you are still playing this game.
2. In case winning/loosing plays a big role for the score it could lead to more stacking.
3. Since K/D is obviously importand it makes players play for their K/D instead of playing for the team. "Oh, pg under attack? Better not phase, I could die".
(4. Public and competitive play not seperated? Most high lvl comp players have way worse skill than decent pub players, since they play gathers/pcw's a lot. Luckily most comp players don't care about skill rankings...)
I see that can be a problem but in the mean time it can be interesting for new players. Yes they gonna farm too but they gonna stay. Right know i don't see the difference between what you describe and what's going on in public games. They fear death at "PG" calling from the commander.
It could be good to add some "community things" like settings in the profile:
-Above level X i'm willing to help newcomers get a grip on the game
-Above level X i'm willing to help newcomers train on the game (so it disable stats for you)
-Willing to train level 0 (or a range like 30 hours to 100).
I did write a response about how whichever server I went to then, rookie or not, it was just full of rookies (probably due to the humble bundle) and how I wish they'd implement my idea, which is a year old, of rookie-only servers. Just deleted it because it's tl;dr kinda one. On the other hand, I have a steam pic of me at 45:35:1, wherein I had been accused of farming rookies (it's on my steam if you want to check). Even though it was a NON-ROOKIE server. I have almost signed up to gathers and joined teams in the past but I have a horrific internet connection (as you might remember, I often change my name to something like "LAGBPN". I can't rely on it enough to make any promises to anyone). Having said that, I don't really play much anymore. Just came back after over a month and I was expecting to suck. Went into some non-rookie server I'd never heard of before and 2/3 were rookies. -_-
I did write a response about how whichever server I went to then, rookie or not, it was just full of rookies (probably due to the humble bundle) and how I wish they'd implement my idea, which is a year old, of rookie-only servers. Just deleted it because it's tl;dr kinda one. On the other hand, I have a steam pic of me at 45:35:1, wherein I had been accused of farming rookies (it's on my steam if you want to check). Even though it was a NON-ROOKIE server. I have almost signed up to gathers and joined teams in the past but I have a horrific internet connection (as you might remember, I often change my name to something like "LAGBPN". I can't rely on it enough to make any promises to anyone). Having said that, I don't really play much anymore. Just came back after over a month and I was expecting to suck. Went into some non-rookie server I'd never heard of before and 2/3 were rookies. -_-
TO BITEY'S STREAM
It's people like you who give the "comp" players a bad name. It's non-competitive yet somewhat skilled pubbers who go onto rookie servers and stomp then WE get the blame.
I'm sure you do have the odd steam picture of you on a non-rookie server everynow and then but the fact is that the hive shows that you play most of your time on UWE rookie servers.
On December 6th, you got 1798.07 skill on UWE #06.
On December 23rd, you got 668.09 on dumbass brits , a non-rookie server.
The fact that the majority of your hive stats are from UWE servers lends itself to the accusations of you rookie farming.
Just stay on those non-rookie servers. Yoclan and dumbass brits are almost always populated with the top of the crop public players. Leave rookies alone.
In response to the actual topic, we played Saunamen yesterday. When we won, Bitey got 443.4 points and niitse (a saunamen player) got 356.07 points.
A high skilled game that resulted in one of the players of the winning team gaining ~450 points and one of the losing team's players gets ~350 points is ludicrous when you look at public servers where Bitey can get 646 points.
The hive stats have absolutely no substance behind them and so when SABOT comes out, it's going to be a DISASTER. You're going to get horrific teams with horrific balance and a lot of players will throw in their last straw with UWE.
It's people like you who give the "comp" players a bad name. It's non-competitive yet somewhat skilled pubbers who go onto rookie servers and stomp then WE get the blame.
I'm sure you do have the odd steam picture of you on a non-rookie server everynow and then but the fact is that the hive shows that you play most of your time on UWE rookie servers.
On December 6th, you got 1798.07 skill on UWE #06.
On December 23rd, you got 668.09 on dumbass brits , a non-rookie server.
The fact that the majority of your hive stats are from UWE servers lends itself to the accusations of you rookie farming.
Just stay on those non-rookie servers. Yoclan and dumbass brits are almost always populated with the top of the crop public players. Leave rookies alone.
As people like Joshyy have stated elsewhere, there's a reason why he doesn't play pubs much anymore - there are as many rookies on non-rookie servers as there are on rookie servers - I might add to that that there seem to be more rookie servers, AND all UWE servers seem to be on the hive so there is a disproportionate showing of them in this hive thing.
In fact, on that very same dumbass brit server, I will point you to the fact that I went something like 50:22:0 as alien, and yet somehow it wasn't even recorded in the system. Don't believe me? Think I am making it up? Fine. I played a number of rounds on a ROOKIE FREE (not just non-rookie, but rookie-free, apparently) server. Before I left the last round, I decided to take a screenshot because I know "it's people like you" who would complain. I actually ended up with over 80 assists and I don't know how many kills with no deaths, but I couldn't upload that because there were so many people in the server that the server name didn't show up when we were all in the ready room. You'd have to think something like that is around that 1700, right? So why didn't it record it? I don't know. It recorded the round before though - the system is very flawed.
Edit: @Ezekel has the answer
Just so you're aware, when steam is offline it records no stats for the match even if steam community comes back online
I don't think win/loss should be so important and I think that who you play should reflect your skill. For example, as you say, Bitey got a "low" skill factor even though he is better than me at the game.
I took a look at the rankings after your comment and noticed that "level" appears to be a reflection of the number of hours you've played multiplied by the level of people you've been up against. So for example, my level is 12 and my hours 41 (3.4). Villain is level 11 with only 31 hours (2.8). So he seems to be facing slightly tougher opposition. Galahad has level 29 with 121 hours (4.1) which seems to equate to lower opposition than myself. Ezekel, another forum veteran, has level 4 for 14 hours (3.5). The lower the number, the tougher the opposition, it seems. Though of course AceDude, you could confirm my hypothesis. A guy you might like is Rookie Farmer (3.7).
Here's the one I took from yesterday. Never played on this server before.
So what does this tell me? It tells me that there is a HUGE difference even between non-rookies. I remember being better than many non-rookies when I was only 2 hours into the game. Not because I was good (trust me I was terrible), but because for whatever reason they hadn't acclimated to the game very well. This, I think, lends credence to the concept of servers more stratified based on hours. It's not perfect, sure, but I'd like to think we can give it a chance. Call rookie status around 50-100 hours and let them have their own environment. Then rookies can play amongst themselves for a while, and I can go on a non-rookie server and enjoy more not having to coach people and not being accused of cheating etc. I do like to coach from time to time, but I'm so busy nowadays that I often just want to jump into any game and have half an hour's fun and leave.
Just for the sake of amusement I will include this one. It was non-rookie and yet I was accused of ROOKIE farming earlier in the round. Not played there in a while but I take this from my comment on steam. Doesn't show up in pics alone.
And if you're wondering why I haven't joined the gather system, here is why:
It's not a one-off. If you've played with me frequently you'll know that my wireless internet in this household of 7 students is quite sporadic and most of the time I cannot play during normal hours. I can't really commit to something, knowing that there is a very high probability that I'll fail to meet the commitment. I even took to commanding when I lagged this badly...I finally stopped doing it when on an American server I tried to preface my inevitable failing with meds and ammo before they kicked me out before the round even started.
PS: I don't play on yoclan anymore because I played a bunch of rounds and then wanted to try and sort my internet out when it was acting up again. So I was in the ready room and the admin guy kicked me for "being selfish". Fair enough, I thought - no biggie. Then I was kicked again a day or so later for F4ing to the ready room because we were two short of a concede vote (at that point the game was lost but the marines were dragging it out - with me on the alien team it just would have dragged it out longer). So he kicked me. I was kicked a third time for taking a pissbreak. After that I decided he (or they. I don't remember the admin's name) was taking the piss (ironic) so I don't play there anymore. I spend the vast majority of my time playing at fufu admin present (even though I barely play the game anymore) because the admins are very friendly and attentive to the rules (and anyone who plays there regularly can attest to that).
@nachos You're welcome to add your support to my "rookie only" servers thread. As joshyy points out, there are as many rookies on most non-rookie servers as there are non-rookies on rookie servers that it is just silly. At least this was true through October to December where I played a lot. If it's still the case now, then the same applies.
Edit: If someone wants to tell me how to embed pics, then please feel free to do so.
Edit 2: Okay I am not quite as stupid as I look. Though I do look pretty stupid - for those who wanna know, I went through Google to my profile, rather than steam.
It'd be nice if @Golden could jump in here and explain how the hive skill system works. I know it has something to do with waits or weights or whey or something like that.
As people like Joshyy have stated elsewhere, there's a reason why he doesn't play pubs much anymore - there are as many rookies on non-rookie servers as there are on rookie servers - I might add to that that there seem to be more rookie servers, AND all UWE servers seem to be on the hive so there is a disproportionate showing of them in this hive thing.
The number of rookies on non-rookie doesn't justify joining rookie servers which you do for the majority of the time according to hive. That's their choice and their problem if they complain by being beaten on a non-rookie server. What IS wrong is all the abuse and grief good players get from people who join the rookie servers and stomp them.
Regardless of the proportion of rookie to non-rookie servers the hive is showing on your account, it's despicable that you play AT ALL on the rookie servers. How can we defend claims of stacking, pub stomping, being assholes, and all other insane manner of sterotypical comments if people like you ARE out there doing these things.
In fact, on that very same dumbass brit server, I will point you to the fact that I went something like 50:22:0 as alien, and yet somehow it wasn't even recorded in the system. Don't believe me? Think I am making it up? Fine. I played a number of rounds on a ROOKIE FREE (not just non-rookie, but rookie-free, apparently) server. Before I left the last round, I decided to take a screenshot because I know "it's people like you" who would complain. I actually ended up with over 80 assists and I don't know how many kills with no deaths, but I couldn't upload that because there were so many people in the server that the server name didn't show up when we were all in the ready room. You'd have to think something like that is around that 1700, right? So why didn't it record it? I don't know. It recorded the round before though - the system is very flawed.
Wow congrats man you are claiming that you are as good as the hive stats say you are. And maybe the hive isn't properly recording some results or some servers aren't yet whitelisted, what ever, this still doesn't justify going on the rookie servers and crushing them 55:22:0 or whatever it takes to get that 1700 score you have on your profile.
You're missing the point of my accusation. I don't care if you're no. 1. I don't care if you have 2000 skill rating if you deserve it. I just care that you are rookie farming and you cannot deny that just by saying that every now and then you join a non-rookie server. That's like having sex with 12 year olds and then saying you're not a paedophile because you have sex with 18+ girls too sometimes.
Just for the sake of amusement I will include this one. It was non-rookie and yet I was accused of ROOKIE farming earlier in the round. Not played there in a while but I take this from my comment on steam. Doesn't show up in pics alone.
False accusation then, but don't assume that you're not a rookie farmer because this one time someone called you out on a non-rookie server. You are a rookie farmer. You go on UWE rookie servers and kill them. Doing that more than the one occasional mistake of joining a server is inexcusable.
And if you're wondering why I haven't joined the gather system, here is why:
Don't care if you play gathers or not. Bonus points for not playing if you don't think you can commit with poor connection. Still not an excuse to join rookie servers.
@nachos You're welcome to add your support to my "rookie only" servers thread. As joshyy points out, there are as many rookies on most non-rookie servers as there are non-rookies on rookie servers that it is just silly. At least this was true through October to December where I played a lot. If it's still the case now, then the same applies.
I don't believe rookie only servers are the best solution.
I believe that there are people with good intentions teaching rookies and showing them the ropes. That's beneficial. I also believe there are asshats who farm rookies and that the only way to prevent that whilst keeping the benefits is to name and shame rookie-farmers. I hope that the name and shame will discourage people from contributing to one of the top reasons this game has poor player retention. Good players stomping new players.
Comments
1. It encourages players to farm rookies. Just look at the servers the Top "skilled" players play at. It's UWE officials most of the time. Don't really wanna know how many rookies quit the game because of the nice experience you gave them @BestProfileName... Looking at your 1200+ score most of the games I would suggest you try to play on at least a little higher skilled servers or just sign up for some gathers maybe in case you are still playing this game.
2. In case winning/loosing plays a big role for the score it could lead to more stacking.
3. Since K/D is obviously importand it makes players play for their K/D instead of playing for the team. "Oh, pg under attack? Better not phase, I could die".
(4. Public and competitive play not seperated? Most high lvl comp players have way worse skill than decent pub players, since they play gathers/pcw's a lot. Luckily most comp players don't care about skill rankings...)
It works the other way. If players want to connect on servers in which stats will be uploaded (meaning UWE filter passed) then they should be able to see it.
I just wouldn't want to filter servers out because they have mods. I do not have a problem finding hive servers, although I don't seek them out. Making the servers show that they are hive somehow in game wouldn't be a bad idea. Maybe put a little logo on the loading screen opposite of the VAC SECURED logo.
I see that can be a problem but in the mean time it can be interesting for new players. Yes they gonna farm too but they gonna stay. Right know i don't see the difference between what you describe and what's going on in public games. They fear death at "PG" calling from the commander.
It could be good to add some "community things" like settings in the profile:
-Above level X i'm willing to help newcomers get a grip on the game
-Above level X i'm willing to help newcomers train on the game (so it disable stats for you)
-Willing to train level 0 (or a range like 30 hours to 100).
Like a steam status but closer to NS2.
I did write a response about how whichever server I went to then, rookie or not, it was just full of rookies (probably due to the humble bundle) and how I wish they'd implement my idea, which is a year old, of rookie-only servers. Just deleted it because it's tl;dr kinda one. On the other hand, I have a steam pic of me at 45:35:1, wherein I had been accused of farming rookies (it's on my steam if you want to check). Even though it was a NON-ROOKIE server. I have almost signed up to gathers and joined teams in the past but I have a horrific internet connection (as you might remember, I often change my name to something like "LAGBPN". I can't rely on it enough to make any promises to anyone). Having said that, I don't really play much anymore. Just came back after over a month and I was expecting to suck. Went into some non-rookie server I'd never heard of before and 2/3 were rookies. -_-
TO BITEY'S STREAM
It's people like you who give the "comp" players a bad name. It's non-competitive yet somewhat skilled pubbers who go onto rookie servers and stomp then WE get the blame.
I'm sure you do have the odd steam picture of you on a non-rookie server everynow and then but the fact is that the hive shows that you play most of your time on UWE rookie servers.
On December 6th, you got 1798.07 skill on UWE #06.
On December 23rd, you got 668.09 on dumbass brits , a non-rookie server.
The fact that the majority of your hive stats are from UWE servers lends itself to the accusations of you rookie farming.
Just stay on those non-rookie servers. Yoclan and dumbass brits are almost always populated with the top of the crop public players. Leave rookies alone.
In response to the actual topic, we played Saunamen yesterday. When we won, Bitey got 443.4 points and niitse (a saunamen player) got 356.07 points.
A high skilled game that resulted in one of the players of the winning team gaining ~450 points and one of the losing team's players gets ~350 points is ludicrous when you look at public servers where Bitey can get 646 points.
The hive stats have absolutely no substance behind them and so when SABOT comes out, it's going to be a DISASTER. You're going to get horrific teams with horrific balance and a lot of players will throw in their last straw with UWE.
Something has to be done.
As people like Joshyy have stated elsewhere, there's a reason why he doesn't play pubs much anymore - there are as many rookies on non-rookie servers as there are on rookie servers - I might add to that that there seem to be more rookie servers, AND all UWE servers seem to be on the hive so there is a disproportionate showing of them in this hive thing.
In fact, on that very same dumbass brit server, I will point you to the fact that I went something like 50:22:0 as alien, and yet somehow it wasn't even recorded in the system. Don't believe me? Think I am making it up? Fine. I played a number of rounds on a ROOKIE FREE (not just non-rookie, but rookie-free, apparently) server. Before I left the last round, I decided to take a screenshot because I know "it's people like you" who would complain. I actually ended up with over 80 assists and I don't know how many kills with no deaths, but I couldn't upload that because there were so many people in the server that the server name didn't show up when we were all in the ready room. You'd have to think something like that is around that 1700, right? So why didn't it record it? I don't know. It recorded the round before though - the system is very flawed.
Edit: @Ezekel has the answer
I don't think win/loss should be so important and I think that who you play should reflect your skill. For example, as you say, Bitey got a "low" skill factor even though he is better than me at the game.
I took a look at the rankings after your comment and noticed that "level" appears to be a reflection of the number of hours you've played multiplied by the level of people you've been up against. So for example, my level is 12 and my hours 41 (3.4). Villain is level 11 with only 31 hours (2.8). So he seems to be facing slightly tougher opposition. Galahad has level 29 with 121 hours (4.1) which seems to equate to lower opposition than myself. Ezekel, another forum veteran, has level 4 for 14 hours (3.5). The lower the number, the tougher the opposition, it seems. Though of course AceDude, you could confirm my hypothesis. A guy you might like is Rookie Farmer (3.7).
Here's the one I took from yesterday. Never played on this server before.
So what does this tell me? It tells me that there is a HUGE difference even between non-rookies. I remember being better than many non-rookies when I was only 2 hours into the game. Not because I was good (trust me I was terrible), but because for whatever reason they hadn't acclimated to the game very well. This, I think, lends credence to the concept of servers more stratified based on hours. It's not perfect, sure, but I'd like to think we can give it a chance. Call rookie status around 50-100 hours and let them have their own environment. Then rookies can play amongst themselves for a while, and I can go on a non-rookie server and enjoy more not having to coach people and not being accused of cheating etc. I do like to coach from time to time, but I'm so busy nowadays that I often just want to jump into any game and have half an hour's fun and leave.
Just for the sake of amusement I will include this one. It was non-rookie and yet I was accused of ROOKIE farming earlier in the round. Not played there in a while but I take this from my comment on steam. Doesn't show up in pics alone.
And if you're wondering why I haven't joined the gather system, here is why:
It's not a one-off. If you've played with me frequently you'll know that my wireless internet in this household of 7 students is quite sporadic and most of the time I cannot play during normal hours. I can't really commit to something, knowing that there is a very high probability that I'll fail to meet the commitment. I even took to commanding when I lagged this badly...I finally stopped doing it when on an American server I tried to preface my inevitable failing with meds and ammo before they kicked me out before the round even started.
PS: I don't play on yoclan anymore because I played a bunch of rounds and then wanted to try and sort my internet out when it was acting up again. So I was in the ready room and the admin guy kicked me for "being selfish". Fair enough, I thought - no biggie. Then I was kicked again a day or so later for F4ing to the ready room because we were two short of a concede vote (at that point the game was lost but the marines were dragging it out - with me on the alien team it just would have dragged it out longer). So he kicked me. I was kicked a third time for taking a pissbreak. After that I decided he (or they. I don't remember the admin's name) was taking the piss (ironic) so I don't play there anymore. I spend the vast majority of my time playing at fufu admin present (even though I barely play the game anymore) because the admins are very friendly and attentive to the rules (and anyone who plays there regularly can attest to that).
@nachos You're welcome to add your support to my "rookie only" servers thread. As joshyy points out, there are as many rookies on most non-rookie servers as there are non-rookies on rookie servers that it is just silly. At least this was true through October to December where I played a lot. If it's still the case now, then the same applies.
Edit: If someone wants to tell me how to embed pics, then please feel free to do so.
Edit 2: Okay I am not quite as stupid as I look. Though I do look pretty stupid - for those who wanna know, I went through Google to my profile, rather than steam.
tl;dr
The number of rookies on non-rookie doesn't justify joining rookie servers which you do for the majority of the time according to hive. That's their choice and their problem if they complain by being beaten on a non-rookie server. What IS wrong is all the abuse and grief good players get from people who join the rookie servers and stomp them.
Regardless of the proportion of rookie to non-rookie servers the hive is showing on your account, it's despicable that you play AT ALL on the rookie servers. How can we defend claims of stacking, pub stomping, being assholes, and all other insane manner of sterotypical comments if people like you ARE out there doing these things.
Wow congrats man you are claiming that you are as good as the hive stats say you are. And maybe the hive isn't properly recording some results or some servers aren't yet whitelisted, what ever, this still doesn't justify going on the rookie servers and crushing them 55:22:0 or whatever it takes to get that 1700 score you have on your profile.
You're missing the point of my accusation. I don't care if you're no. 1. I don't care if you have 2000 skill rating if you deserve it. I just care that you are rookie farming and you cannot deny that just by saying that every now and then you join a non-rookie server. That's like having sex with 12 year olds and then saying you're not a paedophile because you have sex with 18+ girls too sometimes.
False accusation then, but don't assume that you're not a rookie farmer because this one time someone called you out on a non-rookie server. You are a rookie farmer. You go on UWE rookie servers and kill them. Doing that more than the one occasional mistake of joining a server is inexcusable.
Don't care if you play gathers or not. Bonus points for not playing if you don't think you can commit with poor connection. Still not an excuse to join rookie servers.
I don't believe rookie only servers are the best solution.
I believe that there are people with good intentions teaching rookies and showing them the ropes. That's beneficial. I also believe there are asshats who farm rookies and that the only way to prevent that whilst keeping the benefits is to name and shame rookie-farmers. I hope that the name and shame will discourage people from contributing to one of the top reasons this game has poor player retention. Good players stomping new players.
keep in mind i've only read random sentences in these essay posts, just the jist i'm getting.