Strafe Jump Needs To Go!

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Comments

  • KamamuraKamamura Join Date: 2013-03-06 Member: 183736Members, Reinforced - Gold
    In 253, the basic skulk vs marine balance was more or less okay. The recent development is a messy step backward.
  • Kenshir0Kenshir0 Join Date: 2013-02-25 Member: 183347Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Adolfin wrote: »
    Good arguments being written down. Kudos!

    I played 8 continuous games as a constant skulk today to try all random ideas that came to mind how to 1on1 a marine. And every friggin time it felt like I was on some NBA dance floor!
    Space marines just jumping around from one side to the other. So out of place I dont know what to type.... It felt absolutely stupid. Like the old Counter-Strike versions.

    I know you cant mix this with real life but seriously, if you ever met an alien life-form that wanted to kill you, and you had a rifle, would you ever start jumping around? Your aim would become awful, youd get out of breath, and youd be f***ing dead!

    Welcome to the space jam!



    completly agree with this thread I can't land a single bite anymore when I 1v1 a marine you need atleast 2 skulks to either confuse them or use a skulk as a meatshield.

  • BestProfileNameBestProfileName Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177320Members
    Imbaxlax wrote: »
    RadimaX wrote: »
    tallhotblonde i outjumped 3 skulks for more than an entire minute in reactor core when i was out of ammo and commander did not support. After a while he noticed im still alive and jumping he dropped ammo and i even had time to reload my rifle and kill 2 of them until a gorge showed up and healed the last skulk and me to death! :) i wish i had recorded it because it felt like i was alive for ages. But i still think a video example is just what is needed to provide proof and insight of the current state of strafe jumping. Maby you could record some later today for this topic.

    I once 1v1d a dual exo as a skulk and killed him. This is evidence that Exos are underpowered and require buffs.

    But what buffs? Perhaps armour against bites? Gives fades a chance whilst making sure you don't go down to a zero res unit. But perhaps nerf exo DPS?

    We must always remember not merely to say, "X is OP/UP" but rather "element X of Y is OP and must be changed by variable Z".
  • clankill3rclankill3r Join Date: 2007-09-03 Member: 62145Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow
    Stafe jump makes me a way better marine now and a horrible skulk. I really dislike this change. It can even be hard to come close as an alein and once you do you want a fight with a change. Not running around someone that is too hard to hit.
    As a marine i can sometimes jump out skulks for 20 seconds.
  • MrFangsMrFangs Join Date: 2013-03-27 Member: 184474Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Imbaxlax wrote: »
    I once 1v1d a dual exo as a skulk and killed him. This is evidence that Exos are underpowered and require buffs.
    But what buffs? Perhaps armour against bites? Gives fades a chance whilst making sure you don't go down to a zero res unit. But perhaps nerf exo DPS?
    You should get your irony detector fixed :P

  • lncabinlncabin Join Date: 2013-07-10 Member: 186024Members
    Marine takes Alien damage? Can't jump for half a second.
  • maD_maX_maD_maX_ Join Date: 2013-04-07 Member: 184678Members
    majorpain wrote: »
    Not sure if its been said i have not read all six pages, but if for some crazy reason the marine are going to keep there bionic legs make it so they only work this way at 100% health, once they take any damage to there health they lose there 6 million dollar man ability.


    Most reasonable compromise iv seen, handy caps the surprised marine giving advantage to alien...(wait I don't like compromise, just take if out!)

  • male_fatalitiesmale_fatalities ausns2.org Join Date: 2004-03-06 Member: 27185Members, Constellation
    I'll propose a new question:

    Should a marine be able to win engagements without commander support ie medpacks?

    I would like to see the introduction of heal over time medpacks OR 2-3 res medpacks. It would allow you to leave in a mobile marine, but would not be as medpack spammable.
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    I personally would like to see marine upgrades go back to 15/25/35 and medpacks cost 2tres with no pickup delay.
  • Kenshir0Kenshir0 Join Date: 2013-02-25 Member: 183347Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    maD_maX_ wrote: »
    majorpain wrote: »
    Not sure if its been said i have not read all six pages, but if for some crazy reason the marine are going to keep there bionic legs make it so they only work this way at 100% health, once they take any damage to there health they lose there 6 million dollar man ability.


    Most reasonable compromise iv seen, handy caps the surprised marine giving advantage to alien...(wait I don't like compromise, just take if out!)

    So then if you spike first he can't jump?

  • PaajtorPaajtor Join Date: 2012-11-09 Member: 168634Members
    Kenshir0 wrote: »
    maD_maX_ wrote: »
    majorpain wrote: »
    Not sure if its been said i have not read all six pages, but if for some crazy reason the marine are going to keep there bionic legs make it so they only work this way at 100% health, once they take any damage to there health they lose there 6 million dollar man ability.


    Most reasonable compromise iv seen, handy caps the surprised marine giving advantage to alien...(wait I don't like compromise, just take if out!)

    So then if you spike first he can't jump?
    I actually like that.
    Fits parasite perfectly.

  • MouseMouse The Lighter Side of Pessimism Join Date: 2002-03-02 Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    I would like to see the introduction of heal over time medpacks OR 2-3 res medpacks. It would allow you to leave in a mobile marine, but would not be as medpack spammable.
    Heal over time meds would be nice. Particularly if the timer didn't stop when they reached full hp and if you could med marines on full hp. Being able to pre-med marines who are about to come under attack would be useful.
    Though, depending on the implementation, that could mean that one full HP marine could scoop up all of the meds and then regen for the next 5 minutes.

  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited September 2013
    Healing over time meds would be useless, you'd never be able to heal a marine taking damage, they'd just die. Unless the rate of healing was really fast, but then why isn't it instant anyway.

    Medding is a big part of marine engagements, taking it away ruins the marine comm.
  • CyberKunCyberKun Join Date: 2013-02-02 Member: 182733Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Healing the 50 health over one second is quite different than healing 50 every one second. The biggest plus will be it is obvious when you can pick up another Medkit instead of built in delay.
  • VigilantiaVigilantia Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 51Members
    edited September 2013
    I'll propose a new question:

    Should a marine be able to win engagements without commander support ie medpacks?

    I would like to see the introduction of heal over time medpacks OR 2-3 res medpacks. It would allow you to leave in a mobile marine, but would not be as medpack spammable.

    Yes, absolutely. Medpacks are there to swing the odds in your favor but marines should come out on top in early game engagements (ignoring obvious ambushes, skill differences, etc.)

    Let's say this wasn't the case and marines are supposed to lose. 3 marines go East Wing, 2 go Cafeteria and all the skulks and marines die. Marines are now behind because no marines are building RTs and any 1/2 finished buildings will die due to slow marine movement speed and fast skulk speed. Marines are supposed to have an advantage in straight equal fights. How big an advantage is the question.
  • SunTzuSunTzu Join Date: 2013-09-09 Member: 188036Members
    edited September 2013
    In truth, I always never liked seeing Marines able to jump so easy away from Aliens. The game looks impressive, and the bunny hopping marines ruin the immersion. I think the game would do better overall removing the ability for marines to jump or run if they get bitten in the form of a time penalty.

    I wonder if the dev's have even bothered to test out slow penalties on aliens and marines. This could improve gameplay, but I guess the NS dev's have never tested it out.
  • MasterEvilAceMasterEvilAce Join Date: 2002-11-29 Member: 10268Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited September 2013
    * Remove the movement penalty on marines running backwards.
    * Limit the ridiculous jumping somehow (I'm against stamina bars, there has to be a better way... a jump cooldown of 1 second after hitting the ground maybe, but doesn't limit your speed at all?)
    * Improve alien's abilities to ambush marines. In NS1 hallways and rooms were basically floor, wall, ceiling. In NS2 there's a lot of extra detail pieces on walls, making you have to navigate AROUND these objects. Find a way to make it easier to navigate these areas. Running along the ceiling is also non-existent, since you have to basically be looking upwards to continue to stick. If Skulks could CLING to the ceiling while running around on it, while looking down and tracking a marine, they'd be able to set up better ambush/stealth tactic scenarios. Aliens should be masters at getting the jump on marines. Marines have ways to counter this such as obs and things like that, but aliens will always have the advantage.
    * Along with talking about aliens being able to ambush unprepared marines, the lighting system request with dead powernode = blackout would DEFINITELY help out aliens with ambushing tactics.

    With these changes, certain upgrades for aliens would have more emphasis as well, such as CELERITY, SKULK LEAP (which doesn't get researched soon enough, IMO.) And there would be more emphasis on aliens taking out powernodes, instead of just running by them.. since all they are is a timesink for marines to get power in a room.
  • JektJekt Join Date: 2012-02-05 Member: 143714Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited September 2013
    It was tested. It's annoying and frustrating to play when movement is limited and out of your control. Screw your immersion.

    I think the strafe jump should be toned down though, it requires no skill for a marine to pull off and adversely effects pub skulks tracking marine movement. The increased strafe acceleration was enough.
  • SunTzuSunTzu Join Date: 2013-09-09 Member: 188036Members
    edited September 2013
    Jekt wrote: »
    It was tested. It's annoying and frustrating to play when movement is limited and out of your control. Screw your immersion.

    I think the strafe jump should be toned down though, it requires no skill for a marine to pull off and adversely effects pub skulks tracking marine movement. The increased strafe acceleration was enough.

    Bunny jumping should be disabled, they should feature a knock back system with the current rifle melee.

    If a Alien gets close to a marine, they should have the advantage, they worked hard to get close to the marine, it shouldn't be countered by a lame bunny hopping mechanic.
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    SunTzu wrote: »
    they should feature a knock back system with the current rifle melee.

    They did this, it was op.
  • SunTzuSunTzu Join Date: 2013-09-09 Member: 188036Members
    Ghosthree3 wrote: »
    SunTzu wrote: »
    they should feature a knock back system with the current rifle melee.

    They did this, it was op.

    Maybe the execution was done wrong, the marines shouldn't be able to spam the melee function, I'd say something like 1 melee attack every 1.5 seconds would be balanced compared to Aliens being able to melee faster.
  • OnosFactoryOnosFactory New Zealand Join Date: 2008-07-16 Member: 64637Members
    Lol, Auro, now that was funny!

    "If a Alien gets close to a marine, they should have the advantage, they worked hard to get close to the marine" .... No they didn't, they got camo (or whatever it is nowadays) and waiting in a corner somewhere.
  • maD_maX_maD_maX_ Join Date: 2013-04-07 Member: 184678Members
    Kenshir0 wrote: »
    maD_maX_ wrote: »
    majorpain wrote: »
    Not sure if its been said i have not read all six pages, but if for some crazy reason the marine are going to keep there bionic legs make it so they only work this way at 100% health, once they take any damage to there health they lose there 6 million dollar man ability.


    Most reasonable compromise iv seen, handy caps the surprised marine giving advantage to alien...(wait I don't like compromise, just take if out!)

    So then if you spike first he can't jump?

    No I was imagining jump ability being proportional to health, so para does minor dmg so you lose 5-10% of your max jump...





  • maD_maX_maD_maX_ Join Date: 2013-04-07 Member: 184678Members
    Side note marines are more amusing, I feel like a fade all game long.... Survivability is so much higher that now I end up running back to base rather then ask my comm for amo pack after amo pack. now my marine play is just like my fade play. Run around kill 2-3 skulks kill an rt, then run back to base for amo and health...
  • UncleCrunchUncleCrunch Mayonnaise land Join Date: 2005-02-16 Member: 41365Members, Reinforced - Onos
    Lol, Auro, now that was funny!

    "If a Alien gets close to a marine, they should have the advantage, they worked hard to get close to the marine" .... No they didn't, they got camo (or whatever it is nowadays) and waiting in a corner somewhere.

    Nope, proper teams use Aura not Camo if they make Shade first. Camo is so "unlock-able" that it's a joke. The only interest of Camo is silence on a real match (With a Shift hive for example : Speed+Silence).

    So a skulk is still forced to use the stealth ways (movement special + everything that can be used ) to properly ambush.

    Camo is used like you say mainly in Public games in which you have from 8vs8 to 12vs12. Camo is too static for a real 6vs6 game. You can't keep up that easy against real and organized marines.

  • CyberKunCyberKun Join Date: 2013-02-02 Member: 182733Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Instead of using proper balance arguments about why Stafe jump is dumb, I will use appeal to emotions. Alien combat is STILL unfun.
  • aYosaYos Join Date: 2013-01-14 Member: 179469Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Skulks get leap from start, can do X amount of damage, increase energy cost.
  • meatmachinemeatmachine South England Join Date: 2013-01-06 Member: 177858Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    I still dont get what the beef is. I can still run highly positive KDR playing only as skulk from start to finish.
    If a marine starts jumping, STOP jumping. Strafe so you have the advantage in terms of ability to change direction. If a marine's not jumping around, you should be bouncing everywhere. It's actually a beautiful mechanic that makes 1v1 engagements feel skillful and exciting
  • _Necro__Necro_ Join Date: 2011-02-15 Member: 81895Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I still dont get what the beef is. I can still run highly positive KDR playing only as skulk from start to finish.
    If a marine starts jumping, STOP jumping. Strafe so you have the advantage in terms of ability to change direction. If a marine's not jumping around, you should be bouncing everywhere. It's actually a beautiful mechanic that makes 1v1 engagements feel skillful and exciting

    YAY! I'm not alone with this opinion. Didn't see that coming.
  • AsmodiesAsmodies Join Date: 2004-06-17 Member: 29353Members
    I still dont get what the beef is. I can still run highly positive KDR playing only as skulk from start to finish.
    If a marine starts jumping, STOP jumping. Strafe so you have the advantage in terms of ability to change direction. If a marine's not jumping around, you should be bouncing everywhere. It's actually a beautiful mechanic that makes 1v1 engagements feel skillful and exciting

    The second you stop wallhoping marines gain the advantage in mobility. Good marines will get the strafe jump off and you'll have exactly one chance to catch up with them before they kill you, you also have to go straight at them to get that last chance so your movement is really predictable. If you get the drop on a marine or you get in a situation where you're walking on the ground and they *don't* kill you in a little over 1 second then it's not you doing something right, it's the marine not being able to aim.
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