Turrets, Bile Bomb, Tech 2 and 3 map control
Ironman
Join Date: 2012-03-22 Member: 149184Members, Reinforced - Shadow
Join Date: 2012-03-22 Member: 149184Members, Reinforced - Shadow
Hey so I was commander of a 40 min game last night on the King Kahana server. Played with a great team however we did struggle once Bile Bomb came on the field.
We played on ns veil , aliens started in sub sector. Our team ran to cargo.
I built arms lab in base, level 1 armor.
When Marines got to cargo I dropped power, armory and robotics by power node. Dropped Turrets. Then i dropped observatory and researched pg.
While this was happening we had rt at topographical c12 pipe skylights and cargo.
After pg was deployed to cargo level 1 weapons was finished.
Then we created nano containment.
Placed Turrets in yjunction and west entrance hallway of nano. Moved two siege tanks on forward wall. We took nano, had the entire map.
Then Bile came out and we slowly lost everything. Lost the game from attrition. Basically operations got taken over. We were trying to push and there is no proper notification that main base is getting owned by gorges.
Second, our containment with Turrets was demolished with Bile Bomb. It was only worth two three minutes to use the Turrets. The life of those structures are way too low for what they cost. Bile Bomb is too affective on the 25 res setup.
So we had an awesome containment and got owned from lower life forms. We had 3 tech points.
We should of won that game.
Game requires some sort of scailing. For example Bile Bomb could only be available if you have 2 tech points. Or Bile Bomb is weak on tech 1 and gets stronger on tech 2 and 3.
also Turrets need to be stronger in terms of armor or some ability to upgrade turret battery health or just make them cheap or remove the battery and just have Turrets.
Was very frustrating. Too many times Marines have total map control and then get decimated by Bile.
I'm gonna have to change my strategy and just go early siege.
It may be the only way to effectively win. Because it doesn't matter if u got dual exosuit Turrets weapon ups when ur just over whelmedby cheese.
Fight cheese with cheese.... Shotgun rush every game.. Or siege rush.
We played on ns veil , aliens started in sub sector. Our team ran to cargo.
I built arms lab in base, level 1 armor.
When Marines got to cargo I dropped power, armory and robotics by power node. Dropped Turrets. Then i dropped observatory and researched pg.
While this was happening we had rt at topographical c12 pipe skylights and cargo.
After pg was deployed to cargo level 1 weapons was finished.
Then we created nano containment.
Placed Turrets in yjunction and west entrance hallway of nano. Moved two siege tanks on forward wall. We took nano, had the entire map.
Then Bile came out and we slowly lost everything. Lost the game from attrition. Basically operations got taken over. We were trying to push and there is no proper notification that main base is getting owned by gorges.
Second, our containment with Turrets was demolished with Bile Bomb. It was only worth two three minutes to use the Turrets. The life of those structures are way too low for what they cost. Bile Bomb is too affective on the 25 res setup.
So we had an awesome containment and got owned from lower life forms. We had 3 tech points.
We should of won that game.
Game requires some sort of scailing. For example Bile Bomb could only be available if you have 2 tech points. Or Bile Bomb is weak on tech 1 and gets stronger on tech 2 and 3.
also Turrets need to be stronger in terms of armor or some ability to upgrade turret battery health or just make them cheap or remove the battery and just have Turrets.
Was very frustrating. Too many times Marines have total map control and then get decimated by Bile.
I'm gonna have to change my strategy and just go early siege.
It may be the only way to effectively win. Because it doesn't matter if u got dual exosuit Turrets weapon ups when ur just over whelmedby cheese.
Fight cheese with cheese.... Shotgun rush every game.. Or siege rush.
Comments
Yet, you didn't lose to bile, you lost because your marines were out of position.
Should have had 1 or 2 marines in west junction.
They had 4 Gorge . Maybe more.
It used to be in 249. But you can't do that anymore.
Aliens need the early Bile Bomb, otherwise they have no means to take on fortified marine positions (especially if they have turrets, because turrets with 1 marine there are incredibly hard to counter in the early game).
And it's also the only defense they have against ARC trains. All other lifeforms can't do enough damage to take out multiple ARCs in time, since they can only hit one target at a time.
Or to take out MACs that are supporting Exos.
And it's also their only way of getting rid of marine weapons dropped in front of one of their bases, otherwise marines could just keep picking it up in time.
But you want this:
This is a public problem in general though. Not knowing where to stand and the lack of communication.
Aliens create a Gorge wall with hydra tower and Craig that can self contain.
Marines could send a mac to heal but guess what Bile Bomb makes a mac worthless.
Hydra are cheap, Turrets are not. So it's okay to lose a hydra.
Plus you need a robotics factory and battery for Turrets.
Maybe link Turrets with arms lab or armory.
Maybe have armory heal field for Turrets, battery.
Maybe make nanotechnology shield not suck.
Was better when you had energy and u could nanoshield structures and Marines instead of waiting for a really long Cool down.
If it costs results why even have a cool down.
Also what's the point of beacon if it doesn't bring back all players. (only alive ones now) okay I'm starting to digress.
we had 3 ppl on overlook but people were not consistently holding position
so when overlook team died, main base got rushed and 3 cargo it's went up.
So people were not actively holding nanotechnology or if they were, died and did not get reinforced.
I pay for a slot on their servers.
We.. Had.. The.. Whole map lol.
What a waste. We would of done better with pg at overlook, robotics and just siege in first 2 mins..
Now I love gorge and I think the bile bomb should do more damage but I have no problem with it being a 2nd hive ability but at the same time jp’s and exos should also be a 2nd command station upgrade.
At the same time bile bomb came out on the field I also bet fades were coming out in force. It is extremely over powered that if bile bomb, gas and leap have to be researched but fades start out with blink.
Allowing a cornered animal to see a way out will direct their play. Base trading favors the team with a base to spare, hold on to tight and watch it slip threw your fingers...
Also KKG has some pretty good regulars and after 40 minutes the team your playing may not be the team you started playing... People leave losing games and next thing you know 2-4 skilled players take their place and turrets arnt going to save you.
I feel like Turrets are in a good place right now. Not very useful but in select situations, and not useful without human support. I feel like making turrets cheaper, or not tying their construction to the Robolab might bring their cost more in line with their effectiveness. But functionally I feel like they do a good job of being a force multiplier in their current form.
The best option you have once you control the map (IMHO) is to try and direct where you lose ground. Especially on large servers (KKH is usually 18+) there is a critical mass of players in the final tech point, it can be very hard to push if you control the whole map because the other team is never out of position. If you let Aliens push to Nano, for example (harder to bait aliens admittedly), you can counter push their hive with a PG in overlook.
Hopefully the added Res in this example doesn't help because You will be teched up already and hopefully win shortly after. It is risky because a the other team could snowball into a massive victory so you have to be ready to respond and contain them if your push fails... But honestly after 40 minutes if your push fails... might as well start a new game anyway.
Yeah you know what. If we had ips placed in cargo with our cc, we could of just walked into sub and won. I guess I failed by not having ips at cargo.
Also we had Advanced armory in cargo.
Marines lose rounds to situations like this more often than you think. It isn't much of a problem for the aliens. When a marine manages to sneak through the lines, the worst that can happen is a ninja phase gate or some dead upgrades. As marine you lose your base. This is not an imbalance though, it is due to the asymetric game play. You can easily counter this by scouting and communication.
You need to have your marines spread out in groups to effectively push and hold rts, but usually you have almost the whole team at one point.
One problem I find is Marines have trouble reenforcing a zone. this was adressed with sprint not needing stamina.
marines rely on pg and it feels great killing a pg as alien. cause marines just lost everything in that zone
however when jp marine come on the floor. they burn gas to get somewhere and run out of juice duri g fight mode.
would like to see jps more effective even if they cost more
but youre right, marines clump together and dont spread out. always. guess there are too many factors
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Bilebomb SUCKS, HARD. It has been absolutely nerfed to oblivion. It's BARELY better than gorge spit right now.
Turrets die to bile because there's 4 targets clustered with almost ZERO HP. I kill turrets AS A FADE, that's how low their HP is.
Bile needs to be buffed.
Yours truly, just-ran-an-exo-into-a-hive-with-3-bile-bombing-gorges-and-laffed.
I normally get proto started after weps 1, armor 2 to make sure exo are out early as they help a lot.
This would be less of a problem if the game would allow us to JUMP with a jp.
im more interested in making turrets armor more resiant to bile then actually making bile nerfed.
turrents just seem useless for what they cost.
Back in the day the turret factory was had tl kill and you needed 3 or 4 skulks to kill it, maybe a gorge healing cause bile was tech 2 upgade.
lol and you could electrify it too.
whe you have to constantly weld turrets, they dont really support
.
should put those derp turrets in system waypointing instead and just arc out sub. super easy. blocks that lane the aliens were using also.
True
@Ironman
The marines need to focus the gorges if they are in bile range of your sentries. Try to place sentries at positions that force gorges to leave their cover.
Bilebomb is specifically on the 2nd bio mass for this exact reason, it's the only way alien teams can come back vs teams that are camping them like morons and teching up, which is exactly what you or your team did. It's also the reason why gorges were supposedly so cheap, to allow 2-3 to group up and attempt a push with bile more than once to break the siege or "contain".
This is not true. A gorge-wall without a gorge will go down in seconds. The same counts for marines. Turrets without 1 marine are no danger.
If you want to contain the enemy you need to sacrifice at least one player to defend that area. No matter what team you are.
A gorge is no real danger for a marine. Even if he is healing, you never need more than 2 magazines. Every gorge on the alien side is one strong fighter less.
Also: "Lane-Blocking"! Read what Bicsum wrote. All you needed to do was to hold System and Sky / Overlook. Where were all your marines? Only those two rooms were important. Why wasn't there at least ONE to defend together with the turrets? You couldn't hold 2 rooms with your whole marine team PLUS turrets AND half the enemy team only gorges?
TL;DR: Turrets are in a good place. Never should a static AI building be able to be a self sustaining wall of death.