Players have spoken, lol, good joke.
In the EU we have an good mix between 16 to 24 slot servers.
Saying that 24 slot servers keeping the game alive is pure nonsense.
Some of the most played servers in the EU are 20 and below.
And im sure 80% of the players on theses 24 slot servers playing there cause they have no alternative.
This is an US phenomen mostly btw.
These servers are longer filled cause they reach the sweetspot where an server die later (around 8-10 player)
People joining servers with players on it. They would do that with only 20 slot servers also.
Its interisting btw that the country with the most NS2 players has no real vital clanscene.
Maybe cause the EU players learn the game on smaller servers wich fit more to the the 6v6 format.
But thats only very speculative.
Anyway, back to topic now
Fades are op
I suppose you could say I have no alternative. I WANT to play on a 20 slot server, but I'd rather go up than down. Haven't tried the 32 but since I prefer 20 I don't think I want to go that high.
Anyway, even if the game played properly in a pub form at 8v8 or 6v6 (it doesn't), you simply can't have player counts that low in a game where people are constantly joining and leaving and afking. You have to have a buffer of a couple slots on each team or else you are stuck with 4v5 tyoe shit.
It's funny how I get disagrees to saying that 24 players have Aliens win just as much as smaller servers. I guess those people don't look at ns2stats. *cough* go look up the stats Zomb3h.
I've played on a wide range of servers from 12 players up to 32, and although my preference is 16-20, everyone has their own preferred player limit and players should have that choice. Whether it's balanced beyond a certain point is irrelevant. Devs can say they're designing it for 'X' players, but as long as the engine can support more players and we're allowed dedicated servers and mods, there will always be larger servers so arguing won't change anything.
I can usually find 16-20 players servers with little difficulty.... lower than that and you have trouble, not because people don't want to play them but;
*Small servers clear out very quickly after a team stack. It only takes a few to leave before there are too few players left for a serious match, and everyone else leaves.
* Can take a long time 'seeding' to get a match going - large servers have players in most times of the day, so it rarely drops to 0
* there are usually quite a few populated low player limit servers, but they're all full. why? because they're low limit servers! (and as mentioned above, they can clear out quickly... they're more volatile than large servers)
I'll leave you with this;
If there's so much interest in small player limits, why are you lot not getting involved in gathers? First, you're not sat in a server 'seeding' in the hope that others join, you can be waiting for a gather without stopping you getting on with other things (including playing on other servers). Secondly, if you all bothered to hop into gathers, there wouldn't actually be a wait to worry about. Third, once gathers start those players usually stick around for at least 2 rounds, and many hop back into the gather waiting list once it's done.
Small servers demand more teamwork and strategy, and that's exactly what gathers focus on. It's a no-brainer.
Edit: that isn't too say you shouldn't be able to play low-player servers without being in a gather... it's just an option that avoids 'seeding' a server AND often brings a better quality of game
I really do wonder how many people do enjoy playing 24p matches and how many, like myself, end up joining them because they don't have a choice.
Now you're just being ridiculous. There is always a choice: the choice not to play at all.
Your post basically reminds me of
Always big talking in the beginning, but when it comes down to it most gamers are giving in without any second thoughts. Happened already on more than one occasion and is probably the expected behavior by now, hence why big publishers don't really need to give a damn about any shitstorm from the "hardcore gaming front" nowadays.
24-slot servers are fun, more likely to attract new players, but in the long run the game is not balanced for them.People usually don´t have a choice whether to join them or just leave since there are no 16-20 slot servers around and seeding for new players is not exactly a very fun thing to do if all you want to do is play the game.(also - long map loading times, so why bother right)
Another reason why people play on them is they don´t know any better.(that´s why I started playing on them).There is no big fat lettering anywhere, that says that is not the way the game is meant to be played for optimal overall experience(or maybe there is one in the Hints, but I forgot about it, idk).
Has UWE ever even said that statement anywhere actually ?
If there are so many people sheltering under that statement it needs to be in big fucking fat red letters in the server menu, so UWE aknowledges it.
That all being said I think 24 slot servers are actually a better place to learn for newbies.But I do think they should be aware of how different the game actually is from a lesser players slot server, so they know to gtfo when they actually know wtf they are doing, because at the end of the day you die A LOT in those servers for various bullshit reasons, that are going to piss you off.
(I play on 16-20 slot servers myself now(Europe servers) as I read the statement - those servers are what the game is balanced around and enjoy is much more than getting my whole family, my friends and their drugdealer faceraped by 6 fades 14 times in a row.)
I really do wonder how many people do enjoy playing 24p matches and how many, like myself, end up joining them because they don't have a choice.
Now you're just being ridiculous. There is always a choice: the choice not to play at all.
Your post basically reminds me of
[picture]
Always big talking in the beginning, but when it comes down to it most gamers are giving in without any second thoughts. Happened already on more than one occasion and is probably the expected behavior by now, hence why big publishers don't really need to give a damn about any shitstorm from the "hardcore gaming front" nowadays.
I am being ridiculous? I am not anywhere near the rediculousness of that funny picture shows.
I would rather play ns2 than not play ns2 no matter the player count. I prefer the 20p or less experience and am finding it increasingly difficult to obtain that experience. Is it wrong that I voice my opinion?
I should actually reword my question above to:
I really do wonder how many people prefer 20p or less, and struggle to obtaining that experience like I do? Is that less ridiculous to you? Same meaning just less strong words.
Why do some like to dictate what others should do?.
The gamerules dictate what others should do. They dictate the damage of your weapon, they dictate the speed you run and they dictate ammount of players a server can have.
There is a definition for breaking these rules: cheating.
Thats why these hex-editor "hacked" 32-34 slot servers should removed from the serverbrowser.
Like normal cheats giving an advantage to players (more damage, running faster, aimbot,..) these 32 servers giving an advantage to serveradmins cause other servers have less players.
The goal of these servers is to be on top of the serverlist.
Why are balancing threads always end in discussions about serversize?
Hmm, no clue
24-slot servers are fun, more likely to attract new players, but in the long run the game is not balanced for them.People usually don´t have a choice whether to join them or just leave since there are no 16-20 slot servers around and seeding for new players is not exactly a very fun thing to do if all you want to do is play the game.(also - long map loading times, so why bother right)
Another reason why people play on them is they don´t know any better.(that´s why I started playing on them).There is no big fat lettering anywhere, that says that is not the way the game is meant to be played for optimal overall experience(or maybe there is one in the Hints, but I forgot about it, idk).
Has UWE ever even said that statement anywhere actually ?
If there are so many people sheltering under that statement it needs to be in big fucking fat red letters in the server menu, so UWE aknowledges it.
That all being said I think 24 slot servers are actually a better place to learn for newbies.But I do think they should be aware of how different the game actually is from a lesser players slot server, so they know to gtfo when they actually know wtf they are doing, because at the end of the day you die A LOT in those servers for various bullshit reasons, that are going to piss you off.
(I play on 16-20 slot servers myself now(Europe servers) as I read the statement - those servers are what the game is balanced around and enjoy is much more than getting my whole family, my friends and their drugdealer faceraped by 6 fades 14 times in a row.)
Well, for me personally 20-24 player servers are the "Battlefield 3" feeling. You're playing with continuous backup on the frontlines and things are crazy and hectic. If there's something being chomped on and I'm 3 rooms away, I can normally call it and a "redshirt" can go and protect the RT. It gives more leeway as others have said. Things are both crazier and relaxed. Also, most of the time, I can find at LEAST 1 other person than me or the commander talking to the team. Even if I lose the match, the chatter and communication with the team makes it worth it.
12 (and even 16 sometimes) player servers feel too much like DOTA. There is a LOT of pressure to win and a high skill requirement due to less leeway combined with high uncertainty from pubs. You can feel your own and your team's failures considerably faster and harder. KDA is too important in those matches.
Too much stress and frustration for my taste. If I wanted that, I would be in a clan with our own private voice chat.
As for UWE's opinion on the matter, haven't they always said 6v6 is how it's supposed to be played? (for professional clan matches at least)
Foolish replies here, the same type of foolishness and arrogance driving this game to the ground. Anyone thinking this game needs more 24-32 slots of are ignoring the needs and direction of the game.
You think people are going to attempt to seed EMPTY 18-20 slot servers when these 24 slots are populated for the wrong reasons?
A hard-cap on 18-20 should be the catalyst for balance changes. This should be an official developer response to this madness. You leave the community to make their own servers and rules, then all balance and design expectations for this game are thrown out the window. COD Black Ops 1 is an example of how a shit community ruins a game by introducing that type of freedom.
24/7 Nuketown (small map) with 32 players. Not only a huge clusterfuck, but also a plague that infested the server-browser with tons of 24/7 32player Nuketown servers. That was the only damn type of server and map that the game had available most, if not every day.
Move onto Black Ops 2, no more player-hosted dedicated server hosting, but the game is no longer a cluster-fuck. A developer-enforced move due to Black Ops 1 not being played the way the developer intended. It still uses dedicated servers for matchmaking, but it does not utilize a server-browser. Yet the game is still more financially successful, fun, and popular than Black Ops 1, most notably in balance.
Standards is something this game desperately needs. As long as player numbers remain unrestricted, and out of whack, balance will never have a meaningful focal point on which to establish those proper standards for gameplay.
i'm not convinced that 20 slot is 'ideal', and the extra 4 players suddenly turns it into a disaster. imo it's more the quality of players that determine whether the strategies are boring noob cookie cutter like exo train, you get it on 20 slotters as well.
imo we DO NOT need UNIFORMITY, we just need people to promote 3-4 good servers with a good vocal/fun community. then you never need a server browser, just bind your fav 'connect IP' command in console.
tf2 has 50,000 players - but i still only have <5 servers to choose from, because the rest are too laggy or full of mute/non-english players and newbies which is a complete waste of time. besides, i don't even need to search for another server because 2 of those 5 fav servers are my destination 90% of the time.
my related peeve is the inability to queue while IN GAME. sorry, but there's only 3 servers i like in ns2, and when they're full i have to sit in the lobby spamming the 'update' button to wait for an empty slot. there's no way i'll join another server without the ability to auto-join my fav server when a slot opens up, i don't like wasting my time.
I suppose you could say I have no alternative. I WANT to play on a 20 slot server, but I'd rather go up than down. Haven't tried the 32 but since I prefer 20 I don't think I want to go that high.
Why do some continue to post this?
You can say it all you like but the fact is there are plenty of under 20 player servers around WITH people playing, it's the morning here in the uk and i can see over half the server populated with them, it's a fact, stop moaning about having no choice when there's plenty while at the same time hoping others don't get any with 24+
The gamerules dictate what others should do. They dictate the damage of your weapon, they dictate the speed you run and they dictate ammount of players a server can have.
There is a definition for breaking these rules: cheating.
Thats why these hex-editor "hacked" 32-34 slot servers should removed from the serverbrowser.
Like normal cheats giving an advantage to players (more damage, running faster, aimbot,..) these 32 servers giving an advantage to serveradmins cause other servers have less players.
The goal of these servers is to be on top of the serverlist.
Why are balancing threads always end in discussions about serversize?
Hmm, no clue
Oh apart from the fact i was going on about people, haven't you heard this game doesn't dictate what we do because it's fully moddable, including player count if anyone really chooses?
The devs shouldn't of even had this artificial limitation, it ignores the whole potential of mods and takes away server admins choice to have more regardless which isn't right and it has nothing to do with cheating or being the top of the server list so don't make that silly argument, they saw a demand for bigger servers and filled it, don't like it? I see over half the list populated with -20 servers, why not play there?
Well, for me personally 20-24 player servers are the "Battlefield 3" feeling. You're playing with continuous backup on the frontlines and things are crazy and hectic. If there's something being chomped on and I'm 3 rooms away, I can normally call it and a "redshirt" can go and protect the RT. It gives more leeway as others have said. Things are both crazier and relaxed. Also, most of the time, I can find at LEAST 1 other person than me or the commander talking to the team. Even if I lose the match, the chatter and communication with the team makes it worth it.
12 (and even 16 sometimes) player servers feel too much like DOTA. There is a LOT of pressure to win and a high skill requirement due to less leeway combined with high uncertainty from pubs. You can feel your own and your team's failures considerably faster and harder. KDA is too important in those matches.
Too much stress and frustration for my taste. If I wanted that, I would be in a clan with our own private voice chat.
As for UWE's opinion on the matter, haven't they always said 6v6 is how it's supposed to be played? (for professional clan matches at least)
That´s the thing though.I had the same fear as you before joining 16-20 slot servers.There is actually no pressure.You fuck up, nobody cares.It´s still a pub server.It´s nowhere near as serious as you make it out to be.(might be different in the US though)
The frustration for me is the amount of times I get killed in 24 slot servers while trying to do workhorse type actions.Guarding shit, that nobody else bothers, going with that 1 guy at the start of the game, when the other 9 players go the other way, welding everybody, concentrating my fire on that fade nobody cares to shoot for some reason etc.
You don´t get that crap in 16-20 slot servers as much. 8 players is still a lot.It was fun for me for a while in 24 slot servers, but you know my name is already Frustration because of constantly dying to bullshit, I just got sick of it.
24-slot servers are fun, more likely to attract new players, but in the long run the game is not balanced for them.People usually don´t have a choice whether to join them or just leave since there are no 16-20 slot servers around and seeding for new players is not exactly a very fun thing to do if all you want to do is play the game.(also - long map loading times, so why bother right)
Another reason why people play on them is they don´t know any better.(that´s why I started playing on them).There is no big fat lettering anywhere, that says that is not the way the game is meant to be played for optimal overall experience(or maybe there is one in the Hints, but I forgot about it, idk).
This is part of the reason I think often a bit more specifically designed gameplay leads to a much healthier outcome in the long run. If Dota 2 had the old Easy Mode in it, the mod would probably be pretty damn popular. Meanwhile when it doesn't, people go to the regular mode and learn to appreciate it. The devs no longer have to worry about to paraller gameplay modes and they have more resources to make the actual core gameplay more desirable for the newbies and casuals.
I don't think restricting gameplay should be a goal in particular, but it's often very much a necessary reaction and tool when the game structure simply can't stretch itself to all direction without falling apart in one way or the other. Quality over quantity.
I'm not sure if there's any way to fix NS2's situation right now though, the community structure is already there.
* Small servers clear out very quickly after a team stack. It only takes a few to leave before there are too few players left for a serious match, and everyone else leaves.
* Can take a long time 'seeding' to get a match going - large servers have players in most times of the day, so it rarely drops to 0
* there are usually quite a few populated low player limit servers, but they're all full. why? because they're low limit servers! (and as mentioned above, they can clear out quickly... they're more volatile than large servers)
^ This! Matchmaking would actually solve two problems now...
dePARAJoin Date: 2011-04-29Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
To resume some comment here:
As noone is allowed to dictate what others should do and the game is very moddable, its fine to "mod" your game with an aimbot.
And if you dont like to play with an aimbotter on one server, feel free to try another server.
All this talking to just say again and again that ofc competitive style and pub style play need different kinds of balance.
I like big servers when i'm pubbing as much as smaller servers when i want a less casual setting. I don't mean it in a bad way, playing big games, getting an exo and feeling like this badass guy in Avatar is cool.
Lerking like a madman in front of 10 marines is super cool.
Gorging in the marine base with 3 other gorges dropping 12 hydras and clogging their ips is super super cool.
Imo we just need a competitive mod, and don't serve me this bs "oh but it will split the scene", no it won't, when top players join a big serv most of them have a casual mindset, playing mostly for lulz, if some downies keep stacking just kick them and make it known they got no balls to counter stack.
Smaller servers could use the comp mod and message it when the players join, "you just joined a try harding mode serv, dont quit every loss will make you better"
On a serious note vanilla should be balanced for pubbers, and the comp scene has the means and the will to make a full competitive mod englobing everything we need, nsl maps, xspawns, tweaked costs etc...
Most top played multiplayer fps games had these kinds of "light" promodes that could be added easily to a server.
To me the perfect path for a "i want to test all the toys" rookie would be: join a casu24server, try a 18/16ish server, then if interested in the teamplay and serious side of the game, join a 16/12 server with compmod installed.
This game is awesome in any kind of settings just stop judging ppl based on their preferences.
To resume some comment here:
As noone is allowed to dictate what others should do and the game is very moddable, its fine to "mod" your game with an aimbot.
And if you dont like to play with an aimbotter on one server, feel free to try another server.
To resume some comment here:
As noone is allowed to dictate what others should do and the game is very moddable, its fine to "mod" your game with an aimbot.
And if you dont like to play with an aimbotter on one server, feel free to try another server.
Thanks for the enlightenment.
Sure let's compare modding to actual hacking and cheating now, don't be so pathetic.
The gamerules dictate what others should do. They dictate the damage of your weapon, they dictate the speed you run and they dictate ammount of players a server can have.
There is a definition for breaking these rules: cheating.
No, it's called modding, and it's perfectly legit.
Following your logic, any server running a mod would be considered "hacking" because it might draw players away from the "pure" ns2 servers, thus gaining an "unfair advantage". Seriously?
As noone is allowed to dictate what others should do and the game is very moddable, its fine to "mod" your game with an aimbot.
If you create a new game-mode called "ns2_hax" with auto-aim, I don't think anyone would mind. It would be transparent, and the rules woud apply evenly to all players, completely unlike hacking. So could you stop making that silly analogy, thanks.
To resume some comment here:
As noone is allowed to dictate what others should do and the game is very moddable, its fine to "mod" your game with an aimbot.
And if you dont like to play with an aimbotter on one server, feel free to try another server.
Thanks for the enlightenment.
Sure let's compare modding to actual hacking and cheating now, don't be so pathetic.
Raising the slot limit is a hack. You have to manipulate the server executable with a hex editor, which is actually not legal as far as I know.
To resume some comment here:
As noone is allowed to dictate what others should do and the game is very moddable, its fine to "mod" your game with an aimbot.
And if you dont like to play with an aimbotter on one server, feel free to try another server.
Thanks for the enlightenment.
Sure let's compare modding to actual hacking and cheating now, don't be so pathetic.
Raising the slot limit is a hack. You have to manipulate the server executable with a hex editor, which is actually not legal as far as I know.
and it bothers you, why?
even if it was comparable to aimbotting, it would be like having a server titled "aimbots r us" and you're complaining because you're actually so desperate to play with these same drippy-brained aimbotters but not on their server.
To resume some comment here:
As noone is allowed to dictate what others should do and the game is very moddable, its fine to "mod" your game with an aimbot.
And if you dont like to play with an aimbotter on one server, feel free to try another server.
Thanks for the enlightenment.
Sure let's compare modding to actual hacking and cheating now, don't be so pathetic.
Raising the slot limit is a hack. You have to manipulate the server executable with a hex editor, which is actually not legal as far as I know.
what kind of totalitarian shit hole makes a law against modifying purchased software.
G. Restrictions on Use of Software
You may not use the Software for any purpose other than the permitted access to Steam and your Subscriptions, and to make personal, non-commercial use of your Subscriptions, except as otherwise permitted by this Agreement or applicable Subscription Terms. Except as otherwise permitted under this Agreement (including any Subscription Terms or Rules of Use), or under applicable law notwithstanding these restrictions, you may not, in whole or in part, copy, photocopy, reproduce, publish, distribute, translate, reverse engineer, derive source code from, modify, disassemble, decompile, create derivative works based on, or remove any proprietary notices or labels from the Software or any software accessed via Steam without the prior consent, in writing, of Valve.
I am being ridiculous? I am not anywhere near the rediculousness of that funny picture shows.
I would rather play ns2 than not play ns2 no matter the player count. I prefer the 20p or less experience and am finding it increasingly difficult to obtain that experience. Is it wrong that I voice my opinion?
I should actually reword my question above to:
I really do wonder how many people prefer 20p or less, and struggle to obtaining that experience like I do? Is that less ridiculous to you? Same meaning just less strong words.
I shouldn't have quoted the first part of your post, since the ridiculousness was only directed towards the sentiment of playing on 24p servers because of not having a choice. Unless someone puts a gun to your head and forces you to play NS2, you can't tell me that you don't have a choice. That's all.
You would prefer to play with smaller playercounts, but instead of trying to seed a server you are giving in and just contribute to the problem by filling the 24+ servers up even more. That's a bit hypocritical to me.
Would I rather play NS2? Yes.
But if that incorporates playing the game in playercounts it was not balanced and also not designed for (modified executable), then I don't see the point of playing something that I am not going to enjoy.
I am not playing NS2 just for the sake of playing it. I have plenty of other games waiting in that case.
Maybe I am fooling myself for sticking so strong to my principals. I didn't buy Mass Effect 3 either, despite loving 1+2. Because it's only available on Origin. Same with Battlefield 3.
Aliens are definately op. Only way to have a nice game on this build is to have stacked team on marines and good commanders on both teams. Unless wins alien 80 percent of games. 99 percent after Fades come out and kill each 30 marines without death(almost every old ns players can do that) Reducing costs of Lerk Fade Onos was just no more than the worst fail. NS2 is a strategy game. Being able to kill a noob lerk or fade does not matter. They are literally overpowered because one decent one of either classes worths as much as whole map control. They come, get map control and loses marine. Ns2stats is of course not the perfect system, however 68:32 win rate is not a coincidence. It recorded in this month already at least 4k rounds.
All this talking to just say again and again that ofc competitive style and pub style play need different kinds of balance.
I like big servers when i'm pubbing as much as smaller servers when i want a less casual setting. I don't mean it in a bad way, playing big games, getting an exo and feeling like this badass guy in Avatar is cool.
Lerking like a madman in front of 10 marines is super cool.
Gorging in the marine base with 3 other gorges dropping 12 hydras and clogging their ips is super super cool.
Imo we just need a competitive mod, and don't serve me this bs "oh but it will split the scene", no it won't, when top players join a big serv most of them have a casual mindset, playing mostly for lulz, if some downies keep stacking just kick them and make it known they got no balls to counter stack.
Smaller servers could use the comp mod and message it when the players join, "you just joined a try harding mode serv, dont quit every loss will make you better"
On a serious note vanilla should be balanced for pubbers, and the comp scene has the means and the will to make a full competitive mod englobing everything we need, nsl maps, xspawns, tweaked costs etc...
Most top played multiplayer fps games had these kinds of "light" promodes that could be added easily to a server.
To me the perfect path for a "i want to test all the toys" rookie would be: join a casu24server, try a 18/16ish server, then if interested in the teamplay and serious side of the game, join a 16/12 server with compmod installed.
This game is awesome in any kind of settings just stop judging ppl based on their preferences.
Or "they" just make a balance mod for high slot servers and stop selling it as actual vanilla ns2?
In that regard I wish the old beta days back, where 16 slot servers were the absolute maximum, because the servers just couldn't handle any more.
G. Restrictions on Use of Software
You may not use the Software for any purpose other than the permitted access to Steam and your Subscriptions, and to make personal, non-commercial use of your Subscriptions, except as otherwise permitted by this Agreement or applicable Subscription Terms. Except as otherwise permitted under this Agreement (including any Subscription Terms or Rules of Use), or under applicable law notwithstanding these restrictions, you may not, in whole or in part, copy, photocopy, reproduce, publish, distribute, translate, reverse engineer, derive source code from, modify, disassemble, decompile, create derivative works based on, or remove any proprietary notices or labels from the Software or any software accessed via Steam without the prior consent, in writing, of Valve.
That's steam software not NS2, also it means bugger all in the EU.
Comments
I suppose you could say I have no alternative. I WANT to play on a 20 slot server, but I'd rather go up than down. Haven't tried the 32 but since I prefer 20 I don't think I want to go that high.
Anyway, even if the game played properly in a pub form at 8v8 or 6v6 (it doesn't), you simply can't have player counts that low in a game where people are constantly joining and leaving and afking. You have to have a buffer of a couple slots on each team or else you are stuck with 4v5 tyoe shit.
I can usually find 16-20 players servers with little difficulty.... lower than that and you have trouble, not because people don't want to play them but;
*Small servers clear out very quickly after a team stack. It only takes a few to leave before there are too few players left for a serious match, and everyone else leaves.
* Can take a long time 'seeding' to get a match going - large servers have players in most times of the day, so it rarely drops to 0
* there are usually quite a few populated low player limit servers, but they're all full. why? because they're low limit servers! (and as mentioned above, they can clear out quickly... they're more volatile than large servers)
I'll leave you with this;
If there's so much interest in small player limits, why are you lot not getting involved in gathers? First, you're not sat in a server 'seeding' in the hope that others join, you can be waiting for a gather without stopping you getting on with other things (including playing on other servers). Secondly, if you all bothered to hop into gathers, there wouldn't actually be a wait to worry about. Third, once gathers start those players usually stick around for at least 2 rounds, and many hop back into the gather waiting list once it's done.
Small servers demand more teamwork and strategy, and that's exactly what gathers focus on. It's a no-brainer.
Edit: that isn't too say you shouldn't be able to play low-player servers without being in a gather... it's just an option that avoids 'seeding' a server AND often brings a better quality of game
Now you're just being ridiculous. There is always a choice: the choice not to play at all.
Your post basically reminds me of
Always big talking in the beginning, but when it comes down to it most gamers are giving in without any second thoughts. Happened already on more than one occasion and is probably the expected behavior by now, hence why big publishers don't really need to give a damn about any shitstorm from the "hardcore gaming front" nowadays.
24-slot servers are fun, more likely to attract new players, but in the long run the game is not balanced for them.People usually don´t have a choice whether to join them or just leave since there are no 16-20 slot servers around and seeding for new players is not exactly a very fun thing to do if all you want to do is play the game.(also - long map loading times, so why bother right)
Another reason why people play on them is they don´t know any better.(that´s why I started playing on them).There is no big fat lettering anywhere, that says that is not the way the game is meant to be played for optimal overall experience(or maybe there is one in the Hints, but I forgot about it, idk).
Has UWE ever even said that statement anywhere actually ?
If there are so many people sheltering under that statement it needs to be in big fucking fat red letters in the server menu, so UWE aknowledges it.
That all being said I think 24 slot servers are actually a better place to learn for newbies.But I do think they should be aware of how different the game actually is from a lesser players slot server, so they know to gtfo when they actually know wtf they are doing, because at the end of the day you die A LOT in those servers for various bullshit reasons, that are going to piss you off.
(I play on 16-20 slot servers myself now(Europe servers) as I read the statement - those servers are what the game is balanced around and enjoy is much more than getting my whole family, my friends and their drugdealer faceraped by 6 fades 14 times in a row.)
I am being ridiculous? I am not anywhere near the rediculousness of that funny picture shows.
I would rather play ns2 than not play ns2 no matter the player count. I prefer the 20p or less experience and am finding it increasingly difficult to obtain that experience. Is it wrong that I voice my opinion?
I should actually reword my question above to:
I really do wonder how many people prefer 20p or less, and struggle to obtaining that experience like I do? Is that less ridiculous to you? Same meaning just less strong words.
The gamerules dictate what others should do. They dictate the damage of your weapon, they dictate the speed you run and they dictate ammount of players a server can have.
There is a definition for breaking these rules: cheating.
Thats why these hex-editor "hacked" 32-34 slot servers should removed from the serverbrowser.
Like normal cheats giving an advantage to players (more damage, running faster, aimbot,..) these 32 servers giving an advantage to serveradmins cause other servers have less players.
The goal of these servers is to be on top of the serverlist.
Why are balancing threads always end in discussions about serversize?
Hmm, no clue
Well, for me personally 20-24 player servers are the "Battlefield 3" feeling. You're playing with continuous backup on the frontlines and things are crazy and hectic. If there's something being chomped on and I'm 3 rooms away, I can normally call it and a "redshirt" can go and protect the RT. It gives more leeway as others have said. Things are both crazier and relaxed. Also, most of the time, I can find at LEAST 1 other person than me or the commander talking to the team. Even if I lose the match, the chatter and communication with the team makes it worth it.
12 (and even 16 sometimes) player servers feel too much like DOTA. There is a LOT of pressure to win and a high skill requirement due to less leeway combined with high uncertainty from pubs. You can feel your own and your team's failures considerably faster and harder. KDA is too important in those matches.
Too much stress and frustration for my taste. If I wanted that, I would be in a clan with our own private voice chat.
As for UWE's opinion on the matter, haven't they always said 6v6 is how it's supposed to be played? (for professional clan matches at least)
i'm not convinced that 20 slot is 'ideal', and the extra 4 players suddenly turns it into a disaster. imo it's more the quality of players that determine whether the strategies are boring noob cookie cutter like exo train, you get it on 20 slotters as well.
imo we DO NOT need UNIFORMITY, we just need people to promote 3-4 good servers with a good vocal/fun community. then you never need a server browser, just bind your fav 'connect IP' command in console.
tf2 has 50,000 players - but i still only have <5 servers to choose from, because the rest are too laggy or full of mute/non-english players and newbies which is a complete waste of time. besides, i don't even need to search for another server because 2 of those 5 fav servers are my destination 90% of the time.
my related peeve is the inability to queue while IN GAME. sorry, but there's only 3 servers i like in ns2, and when they're full i have to sit in the lobby spamming the 'update' button to wait for an empty slot. there's no way i'll join another server without the ability to auto-join my fav server when a slot opens up, i don't like wasting my time.
Why do some continue to post this?
You can say it all you like but the fact is there are plenty of under 20 player servers around WITH people playing, it's the morning here in the uk and i can see over half the server populated with them, it's a fact, stop moaning about having no choice when there's plenty while at the same time hoping others don't get any with 24+
Oh apart from the fact i was going on about people, haven't you heard this game doesn't dictate what we do because it's fully moddable, including player count if anyone really chooses?
The devs shouldn't of even had this artificial limitation, it ignores the whole potential of mods and takes away server admins choice to have more regardless which isn't right and it has nothing to do with cheating or being the top of the server list so don't make that silly argument, they saw a demand for bigger servers and filled it, don't like it? I see over half the list populated with -20 servers, why not play there?
That´s the thing though.I had the same fear as you before joining 16-20 slot servers.There is actually no pressure.You fuck up, nobody cares.It´s still a pub server.It´s nowhere near as serious as you make it out to be.(might be different in the US though)
The frustration for me is the amount of times I get killed in 24 slot servers while trying to do workhorse type actions.Guarding shit, that nobody else bothers, going with that 1 guy at the start of the game, when the other 9 players go the other way, welding everybody, concentrating my fire on that fade nobody cares to shoot for some reason etc.
You don´t get that crap in 16-20 slot servers as much. 8 players is still a lot.It was fun for me for a while in 24 slot servers, but you know my name is already Frustration because of constantly dying to bullshit, I just got sick of it.
I don't think restricting gameplay should be a goal in particular, but it's often very much a necessary reaction and tool when the game structure simply can't stretch itself to all direction without falling apart in one way or the other. Quality over quantity.
I'm not sure if there's any way to fix NS2's situation right now though, the community structure is already there.
^ This! Matchmaking would actually solve two problems now...
As noone is allowed to dictate what others should do and the game is very moddable, its fine to "mod" your game with an aimbot.
And if you dont like to play with an aimbotter on one server, feel free to try another server.
Thanks for the enlightenment.
All this talking to just say again and again that ofc competitive style and pub style play need different kinds of balance.
I like big servers when i'm pubbing as much as smaller servers when i want a less casual setting. I don't mean it in a bad way, playing big games, getting an exo and feeling like this badass guy in Avatar is cool.
Lerking like a madman in front of 10 marines is super cool.
Gorging in the marine base with 3 other gorges dropping 12 hydras and clogging their ips is super super cool.
Imo we just need a competitive mod, and don't serve me this bs "oh but it will split the scene", no it won't, when top players join a big serv most of them have a casual mindset, playing mostly for lulz, if some downies keep stacking just kick them and make it known they got no balls to counter stack.
Smaller servers could use the comp mod and message it when the players join, "you just joined a try harding mode serv, dont quit every loss will make you better"
On a serious note vanilla should be balanced for pubbers, and the comp scene has the means and the will to make a full competitive mod englobing everything we need, nsl maps, xspawns, tweaked costs etc...
Most top played multiplayer fps games had these kinds of "light" promodes that could be added easily to a server.
To me the perfect path for a "i want to test all the toys" rookie would be: join a casu24server, try a 18/16ish server, then if interested in the teamplay and serious side of the game, join a 16/12 server with compmod installed.
This game is awesome in any kind of settings just stop judging ppl based on their preferences.
at least we're not siding with adolf.
Sure let's compare modding to actual hacking and cheating now, don't be so pathetic.
Following your logic, any server running a mod would be considered "hacking" because it might draw players away from the "pure" ns2 servers, thus gaining an "unfair advantage". Seriously?
If you create a new game-mode called "ns2_hax" with auto-aim, I don't think anyone would mind. It would be transparent, and the rules woud apply evenly to all players, completely unlike hacking. So could you stop making that silly analogy, thanks.
Raising the slot limit is a hack. You have to manipulate the server executable with a hex editor, which is actually not legal as far as I know.
and it bothers you, why?
even if it was comparable to aimbotting, it would be like having a server titled "aimbots r us" and you're complaining because you're actually so desperate to play with these same drippy-brained aimbotters but not on their server.
what kind of totalitarian shit hole makes a law against modifying purchased software.
G. Restrictions on Use of Software
You may not use the Software for any purpose other than the permitted access to Steam and your Subscriptions, and to make personal, non-commercial use of your Subscriptions, except as otherwise permitted by this Agreement or applicable Subscription Terms. Except as otherwise permitted under this Agreement (including any Subscription Terms or Rules of Use), or under applicable law notwithstanding these restrictions, you may not, in whole or in part, copy, photocopy, reproduce, publish, distribute, translate, reverse engineer, derive source code from, modify, disassemble, decompile, create derivative works based on, or remove any proprietary notices or labels from the Software or any software accessed via Steam without the prior consent, in writing, of Valve.
I shouldn't have quoted the first part of your post, since the ridiculousness was only directed towards the sentiment of playing on 24p servers because of not having a choice. Unless someone puts a gun to your head and forces you to play NS2, you can't tell me that you don't have a choice. That's all.
You would prefer to play with smaller playercounts, but instead of trying to seed a server you are giving in and just contribute to the problem by filling the 24+ servers up even more. That's a bit hypocritical to me.
Would I rather play NS2? Yes.
But if that incorporates playing the game in playercounts it was not balanced and also not designed for (modified executable), then I don't see the point of playing something that I am not going to enjoy.
I am not playing NS2 just for the sake of playing it. I have plenty of other games waiting in that case.
Maybe I am fooling myself for sticking so strong to my principals. I didn't buy Mass Effect 3 either, despite loving 1+2. Because it's only available on Origin. Same with Battlefield 3.
Or "they" just make a balance mod for high slot servers and stop selling it as actual vanilla ns2?
In that regard I wish the old beta days back, where 16 slot servers were the absolute maximum, because the servers just couldn't handle any more.
That's steam software not NS2, also it means bugger all in the EU.
So Valve can give me permission to reverse engineer NS2 and make it into my game? hmm