a server with less than 20 slots has a very high chance of diying after a round is over compared to 24 slots, so 24 slots servers attracts most players out of convenience NOT because the 12 vs 12 experience is the prefered format of 90% of the ns2 population (when you look at server list you see that player base is mostly playing in 24men servers).
if you were to send a survey on a populated <24 server and you asked how many of you wish they were playing on a 24men server, youd prolly get 0, but if you do the opposite survey on a 24men and ask how many of you wish they were playing on <24 server, youd prolly get >0 %
24-32 servers are a problem, because they leech the players from the smaller sized servers. People rather join a 31/32 slot server than a 0/18 server, because they don't want to wait forever to play, even though they actually know it is going to suck and will leave frustrated.
It might not be a problem, if the player base was bigger and everyone could choose the server they actually like to play on, but that's just not the case and you are practically forced to play on those servers eventually (or not play at all). That is why 24+ slot servers are hurting the game and they can not coexist with smaller sized servers.
Really? So if that's the case, back when the game was released and all those 16 player servers were filled all the time as well as the bigger ones, why are they now empty and the 24 and up servers still going? What's your explanation for that? I'd love to hear what kind of logic you can put to how bad these servers are that still draw players. And to be honest, everytime I see a server browser screenshot I do see smaller servers still running with people on them, so saying they can't coexist is pretty silly really.
My explanation is that the 24+ slot servers have someone starting to populate the server earlier. I used to do this, too, you know, but I don't have the time for this anymore. Server filling has a snow ball effect. The more people you have in there, the faster people join up.
In the evening when more and more people stop playing, you will see that most people don't even consider 7/18 anymore, because they already count it as dead and they will rather join a 20/24.
All I'm seeing in any of these posts is conjecture really. I mean, if people were so diehard opposed to large servers and so covetous of their smaller ones, why the hell aren't they putting the effort into keeping them going as people are the 20+ players? My server empties out overnights more often then not, yet by midday/evening it's filled back up again. Wonder why? POSSIBLY because people enjoy playing there. Why do they not do that with 16 players servers? Curious, isn't it? I'm sure there's more guesses and extrapolations that will explain it. Couldn't possibly be that more people just plain like those servers. Nah. Impossible.
Maybe you guys should start trying to be a little more objective in your views towards other servers. Hard facts are: you're in the minority. Just because you found the forums and have a keyboard doesn't make you the prevailing opinion.
I'm not denying that there are people who like high slot servers. I'm just telling you that not everyone who plays on high slot servers actually likes playing on them. Very often you are just forced to play on them or don't play at all. That means the amount of players playing on high slot servers does not reflect it's popularity.
This is going nowhere though, so I'm just going to stop posting.
Good idea, perhaps you and dePara can go find a 16 player server to be happy on and stop trolling other server operators. They are out there, you know.
All I'm seeing in any of these posts is conjecture really. I mean, if people were so diehard opposed to large servers and so covetous of their smaller ones, why the hell aren't they putting the effort into keeping them going as people are the 20+ players? My server empties out overnights more often then not, yet by midday/evening it's filled back up again. Wonder why? POSSIBLY because people enjoy playing there. Why do they not do that with 16 players servers? Curious, isn't it? I'm sure there's more guesses and extrapolations that will explain it. Couldn't possibly be that more people just plain like those servers. Nah. Impossible.
Maybe you guys should start trying to be a little more objective in your views towards other servers. Hard facts are: you're in the minority. Just because you found the forums and have a keyboard doesn't make you the prevailing opinion.
Without a proper survey of why people play in which servers, all of its conjecture. My view is that people like to play NS2 and largely don't care where. So they sort the server list by playercount and lo and behold the larger servers are generally at the top. It happens in most games with server browsers and it occurred over the course of the beta (when the playercounts were in the 8-16 range).
The most convincing argument I've seen for higher playercount servers is that they somewhat mitigate the churn of players in servers. Losing 4-6 people at one time doesn't kill gameplay as much on a 24 player server as it does a 16 or 20 player one.
No, you don't need survey results. I'll admit, the real reason people play on my server is I pay them. Honestly, that's the reason.
And I'll say it again, in terms of initially getting players, the server browser sorting has merit. But in terms of retaining those it has absolutely none. 16 player servers ran well enough for a few months, but those players either quit the game or went to other servers. It's not rocket science to figure out what happened and you sure as hell don't need a freaking survey for it either. It just amazes me that there are still people left who will refuse to admit that more people play them because they just enjoy them more.
I dont know how it is in NS2, but in tf2, the spread in 32 player servers tends to actually be above the average skill level. In my favorite 32 player server, I can point out 1-2 competitive players in there at any given time. I used to play with someone who is considered one of the best snipers in the game, when all he used to do was pub on 32 player payload servers (essentially what nerds would call a cancer server).
I dont think its about submerging yourself in a crowd because your bad. Its about not having enough players to frag on a normal server. For some people at least.
I'd take a guess and say that most people join it out of curiosity since I doubt many people have played on a server that big before. Some might stay permanently, some will stay for that night and leave afterwards because they found the gameplay unfun. Personally I can't see what'd be fun about playing alien when you get killed as soon as you're visible every time =/ Even onos would die immediately to 20 rifles.
No, you don't need survey results. I'll admit, the real reason people play on my server is I pay them. Honestly, that's the reason.
And I'll say it again, in terms of initially getting players, the server browser sorting has merit. But in terms of retaining those it has absolutely none. 16 player servers ran well enough for a few months, but those players either quit the game or went to other servers. It's not rocket science to figure out what happened and you sure as hell don't need a freaking survey for it either. It just amazes me that there are still people left who will refuse to admit that more people play them because they just enjoy them more.
anecdotally, i prefer medium sized servers and don't mind larger. i've played on your server before, and can say i have more fun when the player count drops a bit, and really dislike it when a game starts with like... 12 players, and 10 minutes in it balloons out to 24. really changes the tenor.
You're probably one of several people who play my server from time to time and your opinion is probably shared by those people as well, and that's completely fine. What I'm getting at, however, is that out of all the actual regulars on my server I've only ever seen one of them posting here besides me. And I can tell you exactly why they continue playing there. And I bet I can make a damn good inference of why the regulars of the other big servers play there as well (as some of them have posted exactly why). They play there because they enjoy those types of servers more. It's not a debate, it's not a secret, there's no server browser antics at play there, just plain, hard fact. I'm only still posting on this to drill this into the few stubborn people who absolutely refuse to admit people might enjoy playing in a different environment then them, quite a few people, in fact.
Afaik jambi is so large because they had like 12 people make different rooms. 12 rooms makes a large map. I don't think they even thought about player count. You would have to get xtcman or one of the other guys on here to confirm.
Afaik jambi is so large because they had like 12 people make different rooms. 12 rooms makes a large map. I don't think they even thought about player count. You would have to get xtcman or one of the other guys on here to confirm.
Yeah we didn't even think about player count. The layout was created before the game was released and optimized, and it took about 6 months to find a delicate balance for the big map. But the goal was always to create something differemt.... something big.
But jambi should be on more public servers. It's really optimized now and it runs really well on BT mod.
"People want to play in servers with other people, so they start at the top of the list and join the first one with an open slot most of the time"
yes and tom is doing exactly that - giving you a server with other people you can join on. Are you gonna hold it against him that people filter the list by player count? if you really want a good experience maby you should filter by ping or by name? people them selves choose how to find their game, but in the end they find his 40 man server even if it is empty so that is what they are searching for.
Or maybe they're smarter then you give them credit for and they try a smaller server if the bigger one isn't to their liking. I love how people assume they know how every single person reacts to different circumstances.
how many ppl do you hear complaining about not being able to play on smaller server, do you hear ppl coming to these forums saying wow i cant find a 24 men server to play on, im always stuck joining an 18 men server, it should be obvious that 24 men server absorbs both, those who like them and those who dont really like them, because of how covenient they are, not because im in denial of how much i enjoy them >_>
It would be nice if going over 24p servers required the server to be listed as modified just so that people were more aware that you're getting further and further away from the 'intended' game experience by having so many players. Even 12v12 is pushing it IMO but I'll give that as a concession since it's more or less a community standard size though I personally never play more than 9v9 tops.
I played on the 36 man server last night. I didnt lose a single marine match that I comm'd. I died maybe 10 times in 5 matches on marines with well over 100 kills - it was a turkey shoot. It is HORRIFICALLY balanced in marine favour with those sorts of numbers. I was decimated on the alien team and that was with a +ve KD - there were quite a few people who knew what they were doing too - we simply couldnt pack skulk vs 17 marines. Regardless of how little res they had they STILL steamrollered us - a mass of probably L2A2 marines vs higher lifeforms STILL cannot compete.
Comm time; new docking. 4 onos stormed our locker room (they foolishly didnt hit the power). 1x beacon wiped them out in seconds. 17 marines vs 4 onos in a "cannot miss" killed them in seconds - obviously I had no idea if they had cara as a new 450 armour onos is shite enough but cara on low biomass isnt much better. I had a stealth PG outside stability and we steamrollered generator after that with an easy departures walk.
Next round same again except it was departures that lost their onos. That was after we had a new comm who wanted to try for the first time (we were single vs 3 bases and on the back foot - even had a concede vote when I stepped in the chair). 20 mins later we were steamrollering the aliens. Again a room of 10 marines.
I could go on. On Tram I didnt even get exo researched and I only just got JPs out - it made no difference. Wall of L1A3 with a designated welder and a few macs was invincible. Couple with two GLs who know how to tandem and you have at least 10 rifles (few people on PG hopping duty) continually popping eggs and skulks. Aliens had no chance.
If you really can edit the files and mod it then DOUBLE alien armour and you might have a game on those servers, otherwise i'd be interested to see how many times aliens have won - if any. One thing I must say - I didnt lag once. Not once. So either the server code was vastly improved or this guy knows a secret no-one else does. Granted aliens didnt have too much infestation about.
Perhaps UWE should due it like Valve: when you join a server with more than 23(?) player slots in TF2, you get a popup in the server browser that tells you that the game was only designed with up to 23 players in mind and that balance and playability may suffer with higher counts and then asks you if you'd like to proceed anyway.
I could get 30tick with 40 players now 36 players drops to 20 nice update lol.
Something wrong about 4.9ghz not been able to do 36 players jezzzz.
I'm a software engineer and I spend most my time writing very fast low level code, would not mind trimming off some fat from the server.exe if the devs don't mind
Perhaps UWE should due it like Valve: when you join a server with more than 23(?) player slots in TF2, you get a popup in the server browser that tells you that the game was only designed with up to 23 players in mind and that balance and playability may suffer with higher counts and then asks you if you'd like to proceed anyway.
I will put a in game advert that states just that, good idea !
I think that one of them actually went to about 60 players at one point, though at that point i'd only imagine it was lagging in more ways than one, considering this was pre-249
Comments
if you were to send a survey on a populated <24 server and you asked how many of you wish they were playing on a 24men server, youd prolly get 0, but if you do the opposite survey on a 24men and ask how many of you wish they were playing on <24 server, youd prolly get >0 %
My explanation is that the 24+ slot servers have someone starting to populate the server earlier. I used to do this, too, you know, but I don't have the time for this anymore. Server filling has a snow ball effect. The more people you have in there, the faster people join up.
In the evening when more and more people stop playing, you will see that most people don't even consider 7/18 anymore, because they already count it as dead and they will rather join a 20/24.
Maybe you guys should start trying to be a little more objective in your views towards other servers. Hard facts are: you're in the minority. Just because you found the forums and have a keyboard doesn't make you the prevailing opinion.
This is going nowhere though, so I'm just going to stop posting.
The most convincing argument I've seen for higher playercount servers is that they somewhat mitigate the churn of players in servers. Losing 4-6 people at one time doesn't kill gameplay as much on a 24 player server as it does a 16 or 20 player one.
And I'll say it again, in terms of initially getting players, the server browser sorting has merit. But in terms of retaining those it has absolutely none. 16 player servers ran well enough for a few months, but those players either quit the game or went to other servers. It's not rocket science to figure out what happened and you sure as hell don't need a freaking survey for it either. It just amazes me that there are still people left who will refuse to admit that more people play them because they just enjoy them more.
I dont think its about submerging yourself in a crowd because your bad. Its about not having enough players to frag on a normal server. For some people at least.
anecdotally, i prefer medium sized servers and don't mind larger. i've played on your server before, and can say i have more fun when the player count drops a bit, and really dislike it when a game starts with like... 12 players, and 10 minutes in it balloons out to 24. really changes the tenor.
Yeah we didn't even think about player count. The layout was created before the game was released and optimized, and it took about 6 months to find a delicate balance for the big map. But the goal was always to create something differemt.... something big.
But jambi should be on more public servers. It's really optimized now and it runs really well on BT mod.
yes and tom is doing exactly that - giving you a server with other people you can join on. Are you gonna hold it against him that people filter the list by player count? if you really want a good experience maby you should filter by ping or by name? people them selves choose how to find their game, but in the end they find his 40 man server even if it is empty so that is what they are searching for.
The first impression would be:
- An non existent balance with 80% marine wins
- Performance from hell (Tickrates down to 3)
Im sure many of this new players throw the game away: "8€ for the ass, but who cares"
UWE should disable these servers in the serverbrowser due the argument above and the fact that the server.exe is "hacked".
Maybe that explains all.
Comm time; new docking. 4 onos stormed our locker room (they foolishly didnt hit the power). 1x beacon wiped them out in seconds. 17 marines vs 4 onos in a "cannot miss" killed them in seconds - obviously I had no idea if they had cara as a new 450 armour onos is shite enough but cara on low biomass isnt much better. I had a stealth PG outside stability and we steamrollered generator after that with an easy departures walk.
Next round same again except it was departures that lost their onos. That was after we had a new comm who wanted to try for the first time (we were single vs 3 bases and on the back foot - even had a concede vote when I stepped in the chair). 20 mins later we were steamrollering the aliens. Again a room of 10 marines.
I could go on. On Tram I didnt even get exo researched and I only just got JPs out - it made no difference. Wall of L1A3 with a designated welder and a few macs was invincible. Couple with two GLs who know how to tandem and you have at least 10 rifles (few people on PG hopping duty) continually popping eggs and skulks. Aliens had no chance.
If you really can edit the files and mod it then DOUBLE alien armour and you might have a game on those servers, otherwise i'd be interested to see how many times aliens have won - if any. One thing I must say - I didnt lag once. Not once. So either the server code was vastly improved or this guy knows a secret no-one else does. Granted aliens didnt have too much infestation about.
I have to say, I'd be hard pressed to find a worst way to introduce people to NS2. I'm surprised anyone would find this fun.
I could get 30tick with 40 players now 36 players drops to 20 nice update lol.
Something wrong about 4.9ghz not been able to do 36 players jezzzz.
I'm a software engineer and I spend most my time writing very fast low level code, would not mind trimming off some fat from the server.exe if the devs don't mind
I will put a in game advert that states just that, good idea !
I think that one of them actually went to about 60 players at one point, though at that point i'd only imagine it was lagging in more ways than one, considering this was pre-249
How is this spam?