80 fps feels like 40

Sharp-ShooterSharp-Shooter Join Date: 2011-05-11 Member: 98364Members
this game runs 60+fps on my machine, yet it doesnt feel smooth, the devs should look into whats called Frame to Frame times for this game and have it as low as possible for smoother experience

Comments

  • LocklearLocklear [nexzil]kerrigan Join Date: 2012-05-01 Member: 151403Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, WC 2013 - Shadow
    edited June 2013
    yup, agreed

    anything below ~100 fps feels abysmal

    to not notice it means you're bad at fps games :>
  • ObraxisObraxis Subnautica Animator & Generalist, NS2 Person Join Date: 2004-07-24 Member: 30071Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, WC 2013 - Supporter, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts
    this game runs 60+fps on my machine, yet it doesnt feel smooth, the devs should look into whats called Frame to Frame times for this game and have it as low as possible for smoother experience

    Plans are afoot to help deal with this, and the devs are well aware. Good things are coming. Patience! :D
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    Obraxis wrote: »
    this game runs 60+fps on my machine, yet it doesnt feel smooth, the devs should look into whats called Frame to Frame times for this game and have it as low as possible for smoother experience

    Plans are afoot to help deal with this, and the devs are well aware. Good things are coming. Patience! :D

    Is there an explanation for the phenomenon?
  • ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    Ghosthree3 wrote: »
    Is there an explanation for the phenomenon?
    My guess is the right side of this graph:
    5vjz3nx.png

    Or, alternatively, the large spikes in this frametime graph:
    jxJ368c.png

    Those up to over 100ms spikes can really destroy the smoothness of NS2.
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    Hm, the issue mustn't affect everyone though, since I spend most of the game on around 80fps I can say it feels smooth as butter EXCEPT for the micro freezes I get.
  • Sharp-ShooterSharp-Shooter Join Date: 2011-05-11 Member: 98364Members
    frame to frame times it is then, just what i thought, its good that the devs notice this, for those of you who dont know what this means it just shows how long it takes for one frame to the next frame will appear on the screen,

    this is why AMD cards, or multiple card set up feel less smooth in games, which is why some people praise the GTX TITAN because of its VERY low frame to frame time performance compared to GTX 690/HD7990
  • ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    Ghosthree3 wrote: »
    Hm, the issue mustn't affect everyone though, since I spend most of the game on around 80fps I can say it feels smooth as butter EXCEPT for the micro freezes I get.
    I think its mostly based on how sensitive someone is to the issue and expectations. If your running TF2 and getting buttery smooth gameplay with your 4770k@5.0GHz/GTX Titan combo, when you switch to something that runs at less than perfection you will notice the difference.
  • Sharp-ShooterSharp-Shooter Join Date: 2011-05-11 Member: 98364Members
    anything over 12ms you will notice its not that smooth..
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    Amd has fixed this supposedly on single gpu setups.
  • Sharp-ShooterSharp-Shooter Join Date: 2011-05-11 Member: 98364Members
    james888 wrote: »
    Amd has fixed this supposedly on single gpu setups.
    some games, farcry 3 AMD cards are bad
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    There's not many reasons to pick AMD over NVIDIA tbh.
  • IronsoulIronsoul Join Date: 2011-03-12 Member: 86048Members
    I'm using an AMD card and I only experienced this issue in Natural Selection 2. It's so incredibly frustrating and I simply can't play the game enjoyably.
  • ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    Ghosthree3 wrote: »
    There's not many reasons to pick AMD over NVIDIA tbh.
    Price mostly. AMD typically has good value in the low to mid GPU range.
  • dePARAdePARA Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
    I play on an gtx670 and have the same issues. So its not only a AMD phenomen.
    Maybe im too sensitive to things like that but there is something wrong for sure.

  • ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    dePARA wrote: »
    I play on an gtx670 and have the same issues. So its not only a AMD phenomen.
    Maybe im too sensitive to things like that but there is something wrong for sure.
    The benchmark data I showed above is using a GTX 670, so this is a game rather than hardware issue (though I wouldn't be surprised if it was more noticeable on AMD). I've been working on trying to do framerating of NS2 to get a better handle on the issue (e.g. to see if runt/dropped frames are part of the problem).
  • current1ycurrent1y Join Date: 2003-12-08 Member: 24150Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    Could all this 80 fps feels like 40fps stuff come from the fact the server tickrate is capped at 30?
  • dePARAdePARA Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
    edited June 2013
    After reading this results from the benchmarkthread i had the idea of lowering the resolution:
    http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/comment/2099234/#Comment_2099234

    Im sure my gtx670 isnt the bottleneck and my 4,4 ghz i5 should handle the game also.

    The lowered resolution help a little bit and the game feels a bit better now. For some people the blurry image through interpolation is not acceptable but its a workaround for me atm.

    Here is my little optimization list:
    - Disable RAW mousinput ( http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/130435/framedrops-when-using-mouse-in-lategame )
    - Ingameresolution to 1280*720 (on an 16:9 1980*1080 monitor)
    - Processtamer to boost the ns2 processaffinity and lowering backround processes: http://process-tamer.en.uptodown.com/
    - SweetFX for SMAA and Image sharpening (to compensate the lost resolution) http://www.guru3d.com/files_details/sweetfx_shader_suite_download.html
    with this settings: http://www.file-upload.net/download-7674442/SweetFX_settings.txt.html
    - Forced FXAA in the Nvidia drivers (less blurry then the ingame one)
    - An own NS2 Nvidia profile (this is only for Nvidia Cards and you need Nvidiainspector to import this. This is only for single GPUs !! and work only with adaptive vsync)
    http://www.file-upload.net/download-7674410/NS2.nip.html
    - Adaptives Vsync though Nvidia drivers

    Ingame settings:
    Bloom off
    Shadows off
    Textures high
    Particles high
    Vsync off
    Antialiasing off
    Atmospherics off
    Anisotropy on

    In the end: It feels better and more consistent at the price of an bit blurry and blocky image.

    Dont forget to save profiles or files before you try this!!!
  • JCDJCD Join Date: 2005-01-07 Member: 33150Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited June 2013
    Beware of SweetFX because if VAC starts banning because of injection type programs your key will be gone :/

    Edit: Not saying they already done it but better be save.
  • ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    current1y wrote: »
    Could all this 80 fps feels like 40fps stuff come from the fact the server tickrate is capped at 30?
    I think its more because many servers can't maintain a 30 tickrate or 0% choke. However, I wouldn't mind the option to have a 60 or 90 tickrate server. I suspect we're getting close to the point of being able to run a 12-player/60 tickrate on some of the overclocked servers.
  • StrikerX3StrikerX3 Join Date: 2012-11-08 Member: 168423Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    ScardyBob wrote: »
    jxJ368c.png

    What UWE should be looking after is reducing the variation between low and high frame times there. Note how in the end game your frame times vary between ~10 ms and ~30 ms. That means the game is oscillating between "100 fps" and "33 fps" which is quite a lot. Zoom into a 5 second section of that graph so that you can see the individual frame times and you'll notice exactly that. I recall the LuaJIT graph posted somewhere else in these forums that the frame time variations were noticeably reduced; that might help mitigate the "80 fps feels like 40 fps" thing.

    The large spikes are sporadic and are noticed as short "hangs" in gameplay. They are not the cause of that effect.

    Also, try measuring frame times for another game just for the sake of comparison.

    Server tickrates might have an effect depending on how networking is handled by the engine. You know, the game has to devote some CPU time to read packets, process them, convert them into meaningful things, etc. and that happens once every tick, about 30 times a second (usually), and in the end game there's a lot of stuff happening, which translates into a lot of packets.
  • ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    StrikerX3 wrote: »
    Server tickrates might have an effect depending on how networking is handled by the engine. You know, the game has to devote some CPU time to read packets, process them, convert them into meaningful things, etc. and that happens once every tick, about 30 times a second (usually), and in the end game there's a lot of stuff happening, which translates into a lot of packets.
    I suspect that's the issue for most people as I've noticed >0% choke problems start well before the tickrate begins to degrade.
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