Natural Selection 2 Build 245 Released - Natural Selection 2

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  • HamletHamlet Join Date: 2008-08-17 Member: 64837Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited April 2013
    hozz wrote: »
    I find it sad that in order to make something "more Alien friendly", all kinds of open spaces just disappear and mappers have to desperately clutter the map with random columns and crates and sight blockers. Like the new Sorting or Crusher room on Mineshaft, it's just a random mess.

    [The Skulk is unfit outside narrow surroundings, the very reason why open spaces have to disappear.]
    It also impedes mappers a lot if open spaces (not even huge ones, just like Locker Room or Departures on the Docking map) are essentially a no-go.
    This!

    NS2 seems to assume that every public marine team plays as good as Archea & Co.
    Which is fine, if you are Archea I guess...
    Lots of tech points you mentioned feel like claustrophobic 3x3m² slaughterboxes now.
    If the marine team has only 1-2 mic users, a mediocre comm or only average shooting skills - they are screwed big time.

    I know I just have a tiny sample size and my experiences shouldn't be exaggerated, but most of the games I've played recently have been landslide victory snorefests.
    Games where you could tell who would be winning right from the word go.
  • _Necro__Necro_ Join Date: 2011-02-15 Member: 81895Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I now feel really bad... Look what you did people! He uninstalled his game! How could we disagree with him? Look at your-selfs now! Look what you all have become! You all are responsible for making this little kid cry. I hope you can watch yourself in the mirror after that. Was this really necessary? All he wanted was that we agree with him that this change made NS2 unplayable. And the devs catering to his needs. Was this really to much to ask? Shame on you... Shame on you all!
  • ezekelezekel Join Date: 2012-11-29 Member: 173589Members, NS2 Map Tester
    I'm not fully against the change, I understand people avoided yellow servers compared to regular ones BUT

    I have similar feelings because of horrible experiences with other games (back in the day) when having downloads enabled could mean the end for you, you could dl something that added obnoxious sounds, changed in-game settings, modified your hud and other things. I just have a fear of anything like this happening again

    However I have been able to just go to my workshop folder and delete stuff, I remember a few patches ago a map called ns2_kleos would keep downloading from the official servers for no reason
  • CrushaKCrushaK Join Date: 2012-11-05 Member: 167195Members, NS2 Playtester
    Ghosthree3 wrote: »
    Just posting to say it really pisses me off when people say "zerg rush" in reference to anything but a rush performed by the zerg. If you want to describe a fast rush at the start of a game, call it just that, a rush. A skulk rush, an alien rush, an lmg rush, what ever, just not zerg rush.

    "Zerg" and "zerging" is synonymous to "throwing massive numbers of basic units at the enemy without leaving much room for tactical play and instead winning just by numbers". A general "rush" or whatever other prefix you append does not have the same connotation of overwhelming numbers, since you can also perform a normal rush with just a few players going into the enemy base quickly.
  • RoobubbaRoobubba Who you gonna call? Join Date: 2003-01-06 Member: 11930Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    Well I tend to prefer playing on unmodded servers... I thought. But then I understood what UWE have said in this thread - that those servers weren't actually unmodded anyway. So as it turns out, I *thought* I was playing vanilla, but I wasn't.

    That's why I don't mind that this change was put in, even before a way to tell what mods a server is running from the browser is implemented.

    Because here's the rub: Unless it was an official server, you never knew before whether the white servers you joined were modded or not.

    So to all of you complaining that this change from UWE has made it more difficult for you to join an unmodded server: you're wrong. You just thought that the white servers you joined weren't modded. But they most likely were. So in fact you've lost nothing, nothing has changed, and your complaint isn't actually justified.

    With that said, I like advanced consistency checking, because it removes the possibility of people using luminescent skulk models (which they can on any unmodded server...), and I like some of the server admin mods, and I like some custom maps... Ack, it looks like all along I actually DID like some of the mods used on both white and yellow servers!


    Would I like to see the server browser improved? Hell yes. I'm glad that UWE has changes to this in the pipeline.

    Roo
  • WakeWake Join Date: 2003-03-05 Member: 14351Members, Constellation
    It would be a fine idea to get back to factual things instead of trying at all cost to have the last word on a completely sterile dispute with ad hominem bullcrap.

    Opinions have been stated, responses made. Let's move on.
    I have mine but as Ironhorse stated "sky is not falling".
  • sotanahtsotanaht Join Date: 2013-01-12 Member: 179215Members
    edited April 2013
    Golden wrote: »
    Oh no, mods that allow server administrators to add votekick, vote random teams, and votemap are ruining your gaming experience.

    Those mods were already on white servers, no change there.

    Combat is easy enough to avoid by paying attenton.

    While I haven't had the problem yet, I imagine the worst case scenario is landing on a server with something like Sewlek's balance mod or worse, someone elses game-altering mod that isn't immediately apparent.
  • greenpeegreenpee Join Date: 2012-04-10 Member: 150218Members
    edited April 2013
    It's pretty easy to join a "vanilla" server... sort servers by name, go to servers starting with the letter U... and join a UWE server. Done.

    edit: and I thought Cory's response was excellent. God forbid someone have a sense of humor.
  • sotanahtsotanaht Join Date: 2013-01-12 Member: 179215Members
    Hamlet wrote: »
    hozz wrote: »
    I find it sad that in order to make something "more Alien friendly", all kinds of open spaces just disappear and mappers have to desperately clutter the map with random columns and crates and sight blockers. Like the new Sorting or Crusher room on Mineshaft, it's just a random mess.

    [The Skulk is unfit outside narrow surroundings, the very reason why open spaces have to disappear.]
    It also impedes mappers a lot if open spaces (not even huge ones, just like Locker Room or Departures on the Docking map) are essentially a no-go.
    This!

    NS2 seems to assume that every public marine team plays as good as Archea & Co.
    Which is fine, if you are Archea I guess...
    Lots of tech points you mentioned feel like claustrophobic 3x3m² slaughterboxes now.
    If the marine team has only 1-2 mic users, a mediocre comm or only average shooting skills - they are screwed big time.

    I know I just have a tiny sample size and my experiences shouldn't be exaggerated, but most of the games I've played recently have been landslide victory snorefests.
    Games where you could tell who would be winning right from the word go.


    Odd that you would twist that into a marine problem. I read it as "spaces must be claustrophobic and cluttered for aliens to be viable", that last word, "viable", being the key here. If maps have to be designed to favor aliens in order for aliens to be viable, it means to me that aliens are significantly under-powered as is..
  • sotanahtsotanaht Join Date: 2013-01-12 Member: 179215Members
    greenpee wrote: »
    It's pretty easy to join a "vanilla" server... sort servers by name, go to servers starting with the letter U... and join a UWE server. Done.

    edit: and I thought Cory's response was excellent. God forbid someone have a sense of humor.

    I don't like 16 slot servers. At all. Maybe under ideal conditions where all 16 slots were filled with active players they might be decent, but we don't live in an ideal world.
  • BentRingBentRing Join Date: 2003-03-04 Member: 14318Members
    -WildCat- wrote: »
    Farknut wrote: »
    Oh no, what a shame. Does that mean we won't get treated to more pictures of your tentacle porn desktop background?

    Disgraceful. He's a paying customer who happens to dislike your game due to recent changes. Plenty of us have stopped playing. There is no need for that.

    No dude. He deserved that response because he was being melodramatic about the whole thing. I mean, seriously - posting a series of screenshots showing how he uninstalled the game? Come on, guy.

    *gasp!*
    How very DARE you! I shall uninstall your video game and stomp my feet loudly as I leave!

    I'd have rather seen some screenshots from certain people deleting their forum accounts.
  • KamamuraKamamura Join Date: 2013-03-06 Member: 183736Members, Reinforced - Gold
    I, your valued customer, anointed by the supernatural power of ~12 Euro I invested into the game during the Christmas sale, demand that the game is immediately changed according to my moody whims.

    Wait! On second thought, don't do it! I forbid it!
  • KwisatzHaderachKwisatzHaderach Join Date: 2012-02-06 Member: 143872Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    Angelusz wrote: »
    We're all human after all, aren't we?

    I've been playing marines for the last three rounds now, so I think I'll go Alien after all.
  • Squeal_Like_A_PigSqueal_Like_A_Pig Janitor Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 66Members, Super Administrators, NS1 Playtester, NS2 Developer, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Developer
    Xao wrote: »
    Surprised no one else has posted that ns_tram load screen still has the old map on it, would be a little confusing for some people who don't religiously read patch notes.
    Hmm, yeah, this is my fault. All those loading screens have to have the various photoshop files updated manually to get the new minimap on them, which gets a bit tedious, especially if the maps are continuously being updated (which they generally are). I usually try and wait for them to settle out a bit more, or update after them after there have been very large revisions, but it totally slipped my mind with these recent Refinery and Mineshaft changes. I'll try and get those updated for the next patch.

    --Cory
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    -WildCat- wrote: »
    Farknut wrote: »
    Oh no, what a shame. Does that mean we won't get treated to more pictures of your tentacle porn desktop background?

    Disgraceful. He's a paying customer who happens to dislike your game due to recent changes. Plenty of us have stopped playing. There is no need for that.

    No dude. He deserved that response because he was being melodramatic about the whole thing. I mean, seriously - posting a series of screenshots showing how he uninstalled the game? Come on, guy.

    *gasp!*
    How very DARE you! I shall uninstall your video game and stomp my feet loudly as I leave!

    Well at least we can't pull the "pics or it didn't happen" card. still I'd prefer a video of said process :P
  • WakeWake Join Date: 2003-03-05 Member: 14351Members, Constellation
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    Well at least we can't pull the "pics or it didn't happen" card. still I'd prefer a video of said process :P

    ISO certificate of destruction or nothing.
  • WakeWake Join Date: 2003-03-05 Member: 14351Members, Constellation
    BentRing wrote: »
    I'd have rather seen some screenshots from certain people deleting their forum accounts.

    Ain't there a little flaw in your procedure ?

    ;-)


  • hozzhozz Join Date: 2012-11-20 Member: 172660Members
    sotanaht wrote: »
    Hamlet wrote: »
    hozz wrote: »
    I find it sad that in order to make something "more Alien friendly", all kinds of open spaces just disappear and mappers have to desperately clutter the map with random columns and crates and sight blockers. Like the new Sorting or Crusher room on Mineshaft, it's just a random mess.

    [The Skulk is unfit outside narrow surroundings, the very reason why open spaces have to disappear.]
    It also impedes mappers a lot if open spaces (not even huge ones, just like Locker Room or Departures on the Docking map) are essentially a no-go.
    This!

    NS2 seems to assume that every public marine team plays as good as Archea & Co.
    Which is fine, if you are Archea I guess...
    Lots of tech points you mentioned feel like claustrophobic 3x3m² slaughterboxes now.
    If the marine team has only 1-2 mic users, a mediocre comm or only average shooting skills - they are screwed big time.

    I know I just have a tiny sample size and my experiences shouldn't be exaggerated, but most of the games I've played recently have been landslide victory snorefests.
    Games where you could tell who would be winning right from the word go.


    Odd that you would twist that into a marine problem. I read it as "spaces must be claustrophobic and cluttered for aliens to be viable", that last word, "viable", being the key here. If maps have to be designed to favor aliens in order for aliens to be viable, it means to me that aliens are significantly under-powered as is..
    Yeah I was wondering too, he twisted that a bit :p Well said.

    If maps have to be designed to favor Aliens in order for Aliens to be viable, suddenly mappers are much more limited in what they can do.
    It seems to me, more and more open spaces are being removed and only open spaces that aren't contested (= their imbalance is not that influential) can remain. Even medium sized rooms like Mezzanine are too open now?
    In the end, NS2 maps will consist of only hallways and pretty but unused landmark rooms?
    This would be such a needless waste of possibilities, especially seeing that open spaces worked quite well before 240. There wasn't even a problem to begin with, they were fine (though of course hitreg HAD to be fixed).

  • killer monkeykiller monkey Join Date: 2010-02-26 Member: 70743Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Why were the Biodome props removed from the editof? I was using them
  • rantologyrantology Join Date: 2012-02-05 Member: 143750Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
    Why were the Biodome props removed from the editof? I was using them

    gonna take a guess but because the map is unreleased? They probably want to keep those assets under wraps until they can properly unveil them. It would kind of ruin the surprise if you've been seeing all the props for months before in community maps.
  • |DFA| Havoc|DFA| Havoc Join Date: 2009-08-07 Member: 68375Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    greenpee wrote: »
    It's pretty easy to join a "vanilla" server... sort servers by name, go to servers starting with the letter U... and join a UWE server. Done.

    Again, this hurts community-run vanilla servers. I'm not raging or anything here, and I thought Cory's response to frothy was fine / amusing, but at the same time I think there are some valid points that haven't actually been addressed yet.

    We know that detailed server information is coming at some point, which is great, but will the option to filter by mods be added back in or will manual vetting be the only option? If the filter option stays removed and the purists are pushed towards the 'UWE Official or Bust' mindset, I think that does more harm than good. Some folks don't want to play on modded servers for a reason and limiting their tools won't suddenly change their minds, it will just narrow their focus to previously known quantities.

    If 'benign' mods like stat tracking or admin tools are considered ubiquitous or necessary, it seems to me that maybe they should be whitelisted by UWE (and have whitelisted mods as a separate filter in the browser) or simply have their functionality rolled in to the base game. Also, ns2stats having the Unreal soundpacks included is a good example of why someone actually might not want to play on a server with it installed. As for admin tools, I find that the built-in commands are generally sufficient as long as you have active admins, which we do.

    The last one is less of a concern for me, but it was asked repeatedly why the filters were removed before the browser revamp was ready, and I don't think it's been answered yet that I've seen. Why was it deemed necessary to remove the existing tool before introducing the replacement?
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    The answer was, many servers where modifying game files so they had the mods without flagging the system and appearing yellow anyway. Well, tbh I'd have put up with that, had a better (if not perfect )chance of finding a pure server and waited for the new system myself.
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    edited April 2013
    And molesting / modifying your files in "inappropriate" ways led to traumatic / bad things© that were still worth enduring and inflicting onto others just so your server was well adjusted / populated.
    :-D

    I full heartedly agree that uwe approved white listing is the best way to go.
  • mibuwolfmibuwolf Join Date: 2012-12-11 Member: 174760Members
    -WildCat- wrote: »
    deserved
    Many people deserve a lot of things, but sometimes it is best to hold your tongue and say nothing. Personally, I agree with the melodramatic bit, but I would give no reaction to people like them. If you wish to give feedback on a product, you either do it calmly and maturely, or not at all in my opinion.
  • jorgamunjorgamun Join Date: 2013-03-05 Member: 183703Members
    mibuwolf wrote: »
    -WildCat- wrote: »
    deserved
    Many people deserve a lot of things, but sometimes it is best to hold your tongue and say nothing. Personally, I agree with the melodramatic bit, but I would give no reaction to people like them. If you wish to give feedback on a product, you either do it calmly and maturely, or not at all in my opinion.

    Agreed. I lost a tiny bit of respect when they didn't take the high road with that guy. Outright flaming a paying customer for his petulant behavior is unprofessional. We are human, but I thought it was up to the mods/devs to keep the decorum, not add fuel.

  • mibuwolfmibuwolf Join Date: 2012-12-11 Member: 174760Members
    BentRing wrote: »
    Considering the response was a joke from the lead art director about a horrendous desktop background, I felt it was a very tame response.

    It's not something I would personally do considering my behavior as an employee reflects onto the company. If the response came from a guest or user on the forums though, I would consider it tame.

    If anyone should be making the sarcastic remarks, it should be us. Regardless, I applaud the developer secretly in my own mind.
  • ShakerShaker Join Date: 2002-11-21 Member: 9582Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow
    This has become my favorite thread ever.
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