Server admins, get in touch with me
halfofaheaven
Join Date: 2012-11-09 Member: 168660Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Gold
Join Date: 2012-11-09 Member: 168660Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Gold
I've witnessed the same guy hacking and ruining the experience of an entire server twice now. He claimed he wasn't cheating even though it was extremely obvious. We all know the type.
Point being, I recorded a video which is definitive proof and want this guy gone from any servers I could possibly play on.
To the mods: I'm not naming any names here. This is not a witch hunt or a wild accusation. I'm asking the community help me get rid of a huge annoyance, which is a perfectly reasonable thing to do in the forum that is most widely available to everyone relevant to the cause. This thread could even function as a hub for people who have actual, conclusive proof of players hacking so they get banned on as many servers as possible, but I'm probably just dreaming...
I'll send the YouTube link to anyone who wants it. PM me or add me on Steam.
http://www.steamcommunity.com/id/snb
This is the correct way to report suspect behavior. No name and shame
- GISP
Point being, I recorded a video which is definitive proof and want this guy gone from any servers I could possibly play on.
To the mods: I'm not naming any names here. This is not a witch hunt or a wild accusation. I'm asking the community help me get rid of a huge annoyance, which is a perfectly reasonable thing to do in the forum that is most widely available to everyone relevant to the cause. This thread could even function as a hub for people who have actual, conclusive proof of players hacking so they get banned on as many servers as possible, but I'm probably just dreaming...
I'll send the YouTube link to anyone who wants it. PM me or add me on Steam.
http://www.steamcommunity.com/id/snb
This is the correct way to report suspect behavior. No name and shame
- GISP This discussion has been closed.
Comments
More often than not the blamers are at fault here. "Extremely obvious" is the most subjective statement ever made.
You're handling this more appropriately than most people, though. I'd be interested to see said Youtube-video.
EDIT: also the player is smufing a comp players name so it really isn't that person.
Be careful with those; if the wrong people end up on there, they can cause a lot of unnecessary grief.
If done right it's wouldn't be too bad, especially with first person spectator. You could just post a youtube video next to every ban to make sure the right ppl got banned.
Edit: No need now, my google-foo found the hack aimbot everyones been using. Reported it to the devs and VAC. I smell a ban-wave coming.
It's probably the same hack that UWE already reported to Valve. Unfortunately, it takes some time before Valve adds new hacks to VAC.
Poor guy must have gotten his butt kicked by said comp player.
It obviously would not show those day-glo texture replacements some use but it would definitely show snapping and if people are firing etc before the person is visible on screen.
Probably the reason why VAC is so inefficient.
I see why UWE avoids naming-shaming by posting videos of potential cheaters.. but seriously, if it's blatantly obvious (not just a really good 4+ k/d ratio) the videos should be allowed. That'd make ban lists much easier to make. Games would be much better IMHO, if we could ban cheaters before they even join the game.
Sure, there are cheaters.
But there are 900 times more people who are convinced people who aren't cheating are cheaters. It's a delicate, mud-slide type affair. "Community Banlists" are often witch-hunts where legitimate, skilled players get persecuted and 'banned for cheating' at the slightest thought or opinion of a series of incredibly biased, unskilled 'community leaders'.
I'm all for the idea, but it is a very delicate situation and requires a lot of moderation and objective fairness to be at all legitimate. The NS2 community (And most other games with any sort of competitive element) isn't exactly a place of objective, non-partisan analysis and genuine willingness to admit wrongful accusations.
Could always do what someone did in Team Fortress Classic where someone made a hack for the game which secretly logged whenever someone used it. After sometime of the hack being out, this person released the log list of everyone who had used the hack with their steamids.
It was quite a day in TFC on that day.
My video got passed around the PTs and some top players a bit and some of them argue the guy is extremely suspicious, but it's not definitive proof of him hacking. As in, good enough to go on a witch hunt and have him banned everywhere. Think of it as a murder trial where the only evidence is the defendant's fingerprints on the murder weapon.
Now, while I disagree about my video not being conclusive and would immediately ban anyone based on it, and I also know for a fact the guy is hacking because I actually played with him, I realise a video without hacks installed on my side and my word alone is probably not good enough for putting someone on what is essentially a blacklist.
So yeah, a "community ban list" can only happen with a properly working demo system and if whoever's running it knows their stuff, is extremely objective, neutral and reliable and has a 2nd Steam account with hacks installed to provide proof. And even then it's dodgy.
Right now, our best bet is to provide the best proof we can and let every server admin decide for themselves whether it's good enough or not.
So then you would trust "someone" to supply a list of players supposedly cheating. As if that isn't enough this someone is shady enough to make his own cheats. What could possibly go wrong?
I appreciate your support of my post and thoughts. I would, however, like to point out that in my opinion, *anyone* with "multiple accounts, some of which have hacks on them" is pretty much guilty as charged and not worth half a penny in the world of honesty and integrity. Just because someone comes forward as a "Traitor" to the cheater-side of things doesn't give any credibility whatsoever. In fact, it tarnishes it from the onset.
There are examples of this in the ns2 competitive scene (more pre-release than post) where a player would 'admit' to having experience with hacking/cheating, and somehow receive a boon of respect (or expect to receive such) from their fellows; but as far as i'm concerned, once you've dipped your hand into the cheater bucket, you're lower than low and deserve no time or discourse regardless of "Why you have them".
Cheating is still cheating. Having cheats to "fight fire with fire" is not justified. Ever.
Two more cents, since you liked the first two.
-Colt
(Also, there's interesting ongoing debate constantly in NS2 in regards to 'moddability' and what constitutes cheating. Does a new crosshair? Most would say no. Does an invisible rifle model, akin to that recent thread regarding a certain ns2 regular livestreaming with transparent weapons, constitute cheating? Some would say yes, some no. Do bright pink skulks? Most would say yes, some no. It's all greys and grey lines, and the world of cheating is all about self-justification and the world of regulating cheaters is all about accusations and a total lack of evidence... which is why ol' Colt here believes in 100% vanilla install, modifying only in-game settings accessible in the in-game options. Elsewise, to me, you're looking to get a leg-up on those who don't have what you have. i.e; cheating.) [Doesn't mean I think customized crosshairs and gorge heart mods make you a dirty cheater. I just don't agree with the concept of modifying yourself to get an edge; that's the first *step* to accepting, justifying, and embracing unfairness.]
There's _never_ a legitimate reason to install them. The devs should just add a clear walls mode for spectators that shows players and add a visual angle graph of the player's angle to target over time. That sort of 'data' would definitely show up different for someone who's just good versus a cheater. If they 'lock' on it'd be a straight line on the graph versus a normal player where it would go back and forth.
The problem with this is that the demo _and_ spec system are totally broken and they smooth things out way too much removing the twitch factor.
~2 cents
*Cough* http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/125926/community-ban-list#latest *cough*
Many pros and cons were discussed as well as it was expanded to accept player submitted entries - but I think over all the community at the time did not see it as sustainable.
Yes there is. League admins may need them to help them determine if someone is cheating while watching a demo for competitive play.
Until they do, see above point.
There were many competitive players in TFC that were banned from league play due to league admins reviewing player demos w/ cheats on.
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The consensus of a large number of people who play the game, and possibly nobody else?
A public display of evidence is by far the most reasonable way to handle it, it's why that's how actual legal stuff works, it exposes it to the greatest amount of expertise possible and makes it hard to manipulate, when it all has to be presented thoroughly.
The problem here is that the great majority of NS2 players are extremely weak compared to top-level competitive players. This would in effect get a majority of the sincerely good top-level players banned because your average ground rocket skulk won't know the difference between skill and aimbot or experience and wallhack.
It's like choosing a board of laymen to judge a figure skating contest, because, hey, they only fell down twice the last time they were on ice.