chud_lowhealth: Disables low health effects (visual/audio)
chud_score: Disables score popup (+5)
chud_wps: Disables all waypoints except Attack orders (waypoints can still be seen on minimap)
chud_minwps: Removes all text/backgrounds and only leaves the waypoint icon
chud_rtcount: Removes RT count dots at the bottom and replaces them with a number
chud_mingui: Removes backgrounds/scanlines from all UI elements (still not finished)
chud_minimap: Removes the entire top left of the screen for the marines (minimap, comm name, team res)
Well, this is pretty much what I was worried about when I wrote my posts on the subject on the ensl forums. The lowhealth removal is straight up cheating. Unless ensl forces it on for the entire league, this shouldn't be tournament legal and having it installed on your server during an official match should be classified as cheating and punishable as such.
Your post looks a lot like trollbait, so I'll address it as carefully as I can.
First, I wonder why are you even posting the "this shouldn't be tournament legal", etc, when it's obviously not tournament legal already as it's not allowed by the ENSL, because it only allows servers to have the spawns mod and NS2Stats, it's in the rules already. I thought this was obvious, hence the trollbait comment.
Secondly, how is disabling the low health effects "straight up cheating"? You didn't even post the reason behind your opinion, but it's interesting that you follow this with the tournament illegal comment and punishments. Like, expecting this to be used in a ENSL match or something. Funny, sounds almost like a threat. Like randomly asking for demos.
Finally, I thought the aim of the mod was clear, it was to show UWE that there is interest out there for a different look on the HUD and options for its customization. I'm more than open to discuss the multiple options of the mod and what people want/don't want to see. It's more than obvious there was an interest in this. Just saying to not do anything and wait for it to happen seems very counter-productive, considering the past history concerning modding making its way into the official game, for example, the FOV slider made it in when a lot of people said they were going to miss their modified FOV when Lua consistency checking made it in, or things that have been in admin mods being default now (afk kick, concede). Why wait? When it has always happened after a mod became ESSENTIAL.
By the way, I never even intended this to be used in the ENSL, and I'm fully aware that I'm potentially wasting my time, as I've told people before when talking about this, but at least I'm trying to contribute something to the community because I think people will like this mod, justifying my time investment. I'm not even a good coder, but at least I'm trying to do something.
To finish this post, and going back to your original post, I think I agree with you, having an option for removing low health effects seems wrong, I should disable it by default so everyone is on equal terms, because in my opinion, that effect is stupid and makes no sense in this game, it wasn't in NS1, and it isn't in old-school games like Counter-Strike, so why have it here.
I am convinced that most teams and players want to play the game with this kind of visual improvements. However I also understand the argument that players with mods like this have a significant advantage over other players. This problem could be solved by legalizing and advertising this mod by ensl and in the end we all would play a better game.
JektJoin Date: 2012-02-05Member: 143714Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
chud_minimap wouldn't work for me either, using Saunapack GUI.
Some suggestions
Remove blur when bringing up the map
Remove health and armor bars, shift numerical values to the left
Replace arms lab upgrade icons with the old beta ones
Remove need commander / need ip / power under attack / hive under attack banners
Remove weapon selection pop up
I understand Fana's feelings towards the low health flashing/sound muffeling. It does provide you with a significant advantage compared to those who don't use it.
Playing in ENSL should be fair and a leveled playing field, no team should have an advantage the other team doesn't, and not everybody who plays in the league will be aware of this mod, or it's benifits.
That said the low health flashing thing has been a major annoyance for me since I first saw it. I do think it needs to be a toggle in the in game settings and the only way to actually have a chance of it ending up there is through mods like these and make them gain enough popularity.
You're usually a sensible person, so why the full retard mode? I made that post to make sure everybody knows they can't use it in officials, to avoid suddenly discovering it on during a match and the ensuing drama. Same reason I made those demo "threats" during the custom cup; I asked everyone we played, sorry, you're not special.
You're usually a sensible person, so why the full retard mode? I made that post to make sure everybody knows they can't use it in officials, to avoid suddenly discovering it on during a match and the ensuing drama. Same reason I made those demo "threats" during the custom cup; I asked everyone we played, sorry, you're not special.
The wording makes all the difference, also swalk already posted that it's not going to be allowed anyways (before it even existed), not that it needed repeating. Also, we were in separate groups in the custom map cup (I made some terrible posts about the CMC!), this was in the Invitational. I don't care that you asked everyone, just say you want demos and that's it. No need for more.
And on another note, the demo system is still awful and useless.
This is something I've been saying since the early beta. Welcome.
If you had said this in the post, then it would have sounded VERY different and then I wouldn't have overreacted, you say it's almost cheating, but you actually don't like the effect... that's different from just calling it cheating. In fact I was wondering why would you want to keep such an idiotic and pointless effect, but I see the problem lies elsewhere. My bad.
That said the low health flashing thing has been a major annoyance for me since I first saw it. I do think it needs to be a toggle in the in game settings and the only way to actually have a chance of it ending up there is through mods like these and make them gain enough popularity.
The thing is, it shouldn't be an option, it shouldn't be in the game. Why would anyone choose to use it? Immersion? lol.
chud_minimap wouldn't work for me either, using Saunapack GUI.
Some suggestions
Remove blur when bringing up the map
Remove health and armor bars, shift numerical values to the left
Replace arms lab upgrade icons with the old beta ones
Remove need commander / need ip / power under attack / hive under attack banners
Remove weapon selection pop up
Does the Saunapack use any Lua? Maybe we're overwriting the same file. But remember you need to F4 -> F1 or wait until you die so it works.
The weapon selection pop up (if it's the bar at the bottom with the number and your weapons) I removed that yesterday with the smoke in the health/energy from the alien HUD as part of chud_mingui.
The blur and health bars stuff is also something I have planned.
I'll take a look at the upgrade icons, shouldn't be too hard. Does anyone have a copy of the originals?
I don't care that you asked everyone, just say you want demos and that's it.
What would be the point of that? I didn't want demos, I wanted to make sure everyone recorded their games. The ENSL should always do what I "threatened" to do, in every tournament, especially ones with prizes, but since they don't, I had to do it.
I always ask the other team if they are ok with not recording demos, if they want demos, then we record demos. We always record demos to be on the safe side anyways (why risk it?), unless we reach an agreement. Also, most of the admins/refs that have been on our matches have reminded everyone about the obligation of recording them.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited April 2013
An obligation to do/not do something is meaningless when the risk of getting caught is close to zero (compare with illegal p2p file sharing). My "threat" added a perceived risk, which caused more people to record. Some teams even responded with "what, we have to record?", and many rejoined to start recording, so I know it worked. I don't know why that is so offensive to you, but I suggest you get over it.
Because if I ask if you want to record demos, you can simply reply with "yes" instead of "I will randomly ask for demos after the match", seems a bit excessive to me.
I think we should get back to the thread topic anyways. I might start a new one for the mod since this one has been derailed a bit too much.
I always ask the other team if they are ok with not recording demos, if they want demos, then we record demos. We always record demos to be on the safe side anyways (why risk it?), unless we reach an agreement. Also, most of the admins/refs that have been on our matches have reminded everyone about the obligation of recording them.
Recording is mandatory, you can't simply agree with your opponents not to record. That is an offense towards the ruleset of ENSL. Cases like these would cause the game to be discarded and double forfeited(0-0 result). Obviously forfeited games can be picked up and played as long as it is during the group stage. There is even a whole week dedicated for playing forfeited games after the group play.
Sure, the recording playback system is not optimal at the moment, but it works to some extent and UWE have shown interest in improving it. But simply recording your games is fairly optimal(except the fact that you have to disconnect from the server to start it).
More then one admin/ref has said that if both teams agree it's fine, I don't know if you've discussed it with the rest of the ENSL staff, but I've seen that happen ever since the first match in S1.
More then one admin/ref has said that if both teams agree it's fine, I don't know if you've discussed it with the rest of the ENSL staff, but I've seen that happen ever since the first match in S1.
Time to ban all the people unable to read the rules.
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
I'd actually support this mod being officially allowed in NSL. We already allow HUD mods (crosshairs) in addition to major server mods (no crosspawns, minimal lights). This seems different only in scale and incorporates much of what comp players have been saying they've wanted for a long time.
Recording is mandatory, you can't simply agree with your opponents not to record. That is an offense towards the ruleset of ENSL. Cases like these would cause the game to be discarded and double forfeited(0-0 result). Obviously forfeited games can be picked up and played as long as it is during the group stage. There is even a whole week dedicated for playing forfeited games after the group play.
Sure, the recording playback system is not optimal at the moment, but it works to some extent and UWE have shown interest in improving it. But simply recording your games is fairly optimal(except the fact that you have to disconnect from the server to start it).
I don't see why if both teams agree, demo recording can't be waived. Though, it should be made explicit that forgoing demo recording waives a team's right to make a cheating accusation against their opponent.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited April 2013
I agree with swalk on this. If both teams agree to waive demo recording, they could feasibly both be cheating. That's no way to run a league.
ENSL needs to start spot checking for demos, though, otherwise having a no-exceptions rule that everyone must record doesn't really mean much after all.
Not wanting to derail this thread any further, but afaik there was only one instance early S1 where a Ref allowed a match to happen without demos.
We had an internal discussion thereafter clarifying that it was not an acceptable call.
Every instance after that was a clear breach of the rules.
I agree with swalk on this. If both teams agree to waive demo recording, they could feasibly both be cheating. That's no way to run a league.
ENSL needs to start spot checking for demos, though, otherwise having a no-exceptions rule that everyone must record doesn't really mean much after all.
Except, if the purpose of cheating is to gain an advantage, then both sides cheating negates the fundamental problem. More likely is that neither side is cheating, but don't want to go through the hassle of using the current demo recording system. There are obviously rules that teams shouldn't be able to waive (such as refusing to play a team or playing on a map not on the official list), but if NSL is primarily for and by comp NS2 teams, it seems reasonable to allow them to waive some rules if both sides agree.
Its still a problem overall, one team could obtain an advantage in the overall season/tournament because of that game. There's no point establishing rules if your then going to decide to waive some of them just because its 'too much hassle', you might as well not have the rule(s) at all.
Its already known that there was some 'pushing' of boundries, especially during the beta.
Rules state: All players must record demos.
>>Team A (wins) vs Team B
>>Team B calls hackusations.
>>Team A cannot provide demos.
>>Team B wins by disqualification.
What's wrong with the rules now? We don't need to threaten teams to record. The rules already do that. There should not be any exceptions. If a team doesn't record, they take the risk of getting DQ'd if something comes up. Simple as that.
Comments
First, I wonder why are you even posting the "this shouldn't be tournament legal", etc, when it's obviously not tournament legal already as it's not allowed by the ENSL, because it only allows servers to have the spawns mod and NS2Stats, it's in the rules already. I thought this was obvious, hence the trollbait comment.
Secondly, how is disabling the low health effects "straight up cheating"? You didn't even post the reason behind your opinion, but it's interesting that you follow this with the tournament illegal comment and punishments. Like, expecting this to be used in a ENSL match or something. Funny, sounds almost like a threat. Like randomly asking for demos.
Finally, I thought the aim of the mod was clear, it was to show UWE that there is interest out there for a different look on the HUD and options for its customization. I'm more than open to discuss the multiple options of the mod and what people want/don't want to see. It's more than obvious there was an interest in this. Just saying to not do anything and wait for it to happen seems very counter-productive, considering the past history concerning modding making its way into the official game, for example, the FOV slider made it in when a lot of people said they were going to miss their modified FOV when Lua consistency checking made it in, or things that have been in admin mods being default now (afk kick, concede). Why wait? When it has always happened after a mod became ESSENTIAL.
By the way, I never even intended this to be used in the ENSL, and I'm fully aware that I'm potentially wasting my time, as I've told people before when talking about this, but at least I'm trying to contribute something to the community because I think people will like this mod, justifying my time investment. I'm not even a good coder, but at least I'm trying to do something.
To finish this post, and going back to your original post, I think I agree with you, having an option for removing low health effects seems wrong, I should disable it by default so everyone is on equal terms, because in my opinion, that effect is stupid and makes no sense in this game, it wasn't in NS1, and it isn't in old-school games like Counter-Strike, so why have it here.
Cheers.
Some suggestions
Remove blur when bringing up the map
Remove health and armor bars, shift numerical values to the left
Replace arms lab upgrade icons with the old beta ones
Remove need commander / need ip / power under attack / hive under attack banners
Remove weapon selection pop up
Playing in ENSL should be fair and a leveled playing field, no team should have an advantage the other team doesn't, and not everybody who plays in the league will be aware of this mod, or it's benifits.
That said the low health flashing thing has been a major annoyance for me since I first saw it. I do think it needs to be a toggle in the in game settings and the only way to actually have a chance of it ending up there is through mods like these and make them gain enough popularity.
This is something I've been saying since the early beta. Welcome.
And on another note, the demo system is still awful and useless.
If you had said this in the post, then it would have sounded VERY different and then I wouldn't have overreacted, you say it's almost cheating, but you actually don't like the effect... that's different from just calling it cheating. In fact I was wondering why would you want to keep such an idiotic and pointless effect, but I see the problem lies elsewhere. My bad.
The thing is, it shouldn't be an option, it shouldn't be in the game. Why would anyone choose to use it? Immersion? lol.
Does the Saunapack use any Lua? Maybe we're overwriting the same file. But remember you need to F4 -> F1 or wait until you die so it works.
The weapon selection pop up (if it's the bar at the bottom with the number and your weapons) I removed that yesterday with the smoke in the health/energy from the alien HUD as part of chud_mingui.
The blur and health bars stuff is also something I have planned.
I'll take a look at the upgrade icons, shouldn't be too hard. Does anyone have a copy of the originals?
What would be the point of that? I didn't want demos, I wanted to make sure everyone recorded their games. The ENSL should always do what I "threatened" to do, in every tournament, especially ones with prizes, but since they don't, I had to do it.
I think we should get back to the thread topic anyways. I might start a new one for the mod since this one has been derailed a bit too much.
This mod is a great idea - I'd like to see some of these changes make into vanilla.
Sure, the recording playback system is not optimal at the moment, but it works to some extent and UWE have shown interest in improving it. But simply recording your games is fairly optimal(except the fact that you have to disconnect from the server to start it).
I don't see why if both teams agree, demo recording can't be waived. Though, it should be made explicit that forgoing demo recording waives a team's right to make a cheating accusation against their opponent.
ENSL needs to start spot checking for demos, though, otherwise having a no-exceptions rule that everyone must record doesn't really mean much after all.
We had an internal discussion thereafter clarifying that it was not an acceptable call.
Every instance after that was a clear breach of the rules.
Its already known that there was some 'pushing' of boundries, especially during the beta.
>>Team A (wins) vs Team B
>>Team B calls hackusations.
>>Team A cannot provide demos.
>>Team B wins by disqualification.
What's wrong with the rules now? We don't need to threaten teams to record. The rules already do that. There should not be any exceptions. If a team doesn't record, they take the risk of getting DQ'd if something comes up. Simple as that.