ns2_veil_test released

Mendasp

Mod ID: 7f08172
Mapname: ns2_veil_test
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=133202290

This a test version of Veil that tries to make Pipeline a better starting location for aliens.

These are the changes included:
- Reworked exit from Pipeline to The Dome
- Added new corridor between The Dome and Y-Junction
- Removed 45º Corridor from Skylights
- Added crates in East/West Junction (and a plant!)
- Removed one of the glass panes in West Junction
- Columns in Cargo are hidden from Commander view
- Added cover in The Dome
- Removed the ladder access to The Dome
- You can now build behind the RTs in Nanogrid

ScardyBob

It should be fine since East Junction/The Dome are not difficult for marines to assault.

Gadx

I personally, would like to see c12 remade into the original version. I think it would help marines to assault the rt and balance out pipeline a little bit.

statikg

Looks very nice, thank you for your continued work on the maps!

Shaker

Some things we talked about in map testing that would be cool to get more competitive feedback on would be the hallway going behind c12 from the dome (does it need to exist?) and whether the dome itself should be turned into a system waypoint type hub.

joshhh

Shaker wrote: »

Some things we talked about in map testing that would be cool to get more competitive feedback on would be the hallway going behind c12 from the dome (does it need to exist?) and whether the dome itself should be turned into a system waypoint type hub.

With the new pathing to nano, that is probably where I would place my cyst chain if I started pipe so idk...

Mendasp

Shaker wrote: »

Some things we talked about in map testing that would be cool to get more competitive feedback on would be the hallway going behind c12 from the dome (does it need to exist?) and whether the dome itself should be turned into a system waypoint type hub.

I reverted the ramps, so that hallway behind C12 needs to be there, for now, at least.

Mendasp

Any opinions on this? Worth integrating into the official? It basically turns The Dome into the System Waypointing of the right side of the map, which comes with its own number of problems...

wiry

I think double is the problem. It should be hard to take and easy to lose and it's neither on the live version or in this version. This just makes the map very alien biased.

statikg

I think that we need this version to start being used. I would request that it gets put on the gather servers.

Although wiry raises a good point about the problems with nano, the most important thing to focus on at the moment is getting all the spawns to be balanced. The fact of the matter is that if you are playing a match on veil, and only one team gets a pipe spawn, then that team has been massively disadvantaged and this helps to alleviate that problem.

One step at a time.

wiry

Thing is it shouldn't be mandatory to get nano from sub/cargo spawn in the first place. If some good changes are made to double then aliens wont allways cap it when they're in sub/cargo. Thus making the pipeline spawn balanced by default.

rantology

There is problems with the resource distribution of the map as a whole, and those would take some pretty extensive changes to try and fix. In the current climate of the game, if aliens do not hold nano, they are at a significant disadvantage.

These changes make the map more symmetrical in terms of spawns having accessibility to Nano with the least amount of overhauling. (big changes will take longer to make)

That said though, if anyone does have specific suggestions to address some of the RT distribution / Nano room turtling issues please post them!

Aioros

that would be my idea for nanogrid.
like wiry said: hard to take - easy 2 losse

CarNagE1

SoundFX

rantology wrote: »

There is problems with the resource distribution of the map as a whole, and those would take some pretty extensive changes to try and fix. In the current climate of the game, if aliens do not hold nano, they are at a significant disadvantage.

These changes make the map more symmetrical in terms of spawns having accessibility to Nano with the least amount of overhauling. (big changes will take longer to make)

That said though, if anyone does have specific suggestions to address some of the RT distribution / Nano room turtling issues please post them!

Excellent! (both the post and the pipeline changes)

To expand on this with my own thoughts:

Nano always seems to be the obvious choice and not really a choice at all. With the changes it further solidifies this position while not addressing the resource distribution. Reasoning below.

Overlook could be a natural expansion for sub-access but it has a couple things going bad for it. Marines can easily shoot it and it's easy to get to, and quickly. While these aren't necessary bad, they are bad in conjunction. So we are left with Nano or Cargo, both are ideal but Nano quickly wins because it has 2 for the price of 1.

Cargo as a starting hive leaves you with arguably no natural expansions that aren't either Nano or have a tech point/super far away*. The obvious choice here is Nano.

Pipeline as we all know has its share of detriments going for it.


*On the topic of System Waypointing clones: Have you tried moving the C-12 node to Dome and possibly making C-12 a System "clone?"

Also, I really feel the decision between a double node and a tech point should be more distinguished in maps with 2 node locations. It seems more often than not that it's 2 res nodes and a tech point not 2 res nodes OR a tech point. Going way beyond the scope of this thread - changing cargo and nano locations would be an interesting experiment.

Lúst

I feel like having 2 RTs in Nano is the problem area. Which ever team gets into it first normally wins because of how hard it is to assault. I feel like reducing nano to 1 rt and placing one into something like a reworked dome might be a good solution. Starting in Cargo you can go Dome-Pipe-C12 or starting in Pipe you can go Dome-Cargo-C12 with Nano or Topo being a 5th. From what I can gather these changes would make nano too easy to hold, I feel its already easy to do so. I feel like as of right now its too important to hold nano and holding it gives you too great of a chance at winning with how little risk there is of holding it once you have taken it.

I also agree that Overlook is pretty hard to hold as Aliens. But holding skylight as Marines is also too difficult. I don't believe that a vent should not exist from overlook to skylight and that the vents should be reworks around that area.

-2cents

Sherlock

Lúst wrote: »

I feel like having 2 RTs in Nano is the problem area. Which ever team gets into it first normally wins because of how hard it is to assault. I feel like reducing nano to 1 rt and placing one into something like a reworked dome might be a good solution. Starting in Cargo you can go Dome-Pipe-C12 or starting in Pipe you can go Dome-Cargo-C12 with Nano or Topo being a 5th. From what I can gather these changes would make nano too easy to hold, I feel its already easy to do so. I feel like as of right now its too important to hold nano and holding it gives you too great of a chance at winning with how little risk there is of holding it once you have taken it.
-2cents

I like idea. Having a centralised RT in Double would make it harder for Marines to shoot from a distance, as well - forcing them closer to/in to the room to get a LOS on the RT.

Mendasp

Updated! This time it's the NSL version (low light counts, no sounds, no holograms).

These are the changes included:
- Reworked exit from Pipeline to The Dome
- Added new corridor between The Dome and Y-Junction
- Removed 45º Corridor from Skylights
- Added crates in East/West Junction (and a plant!)
- Removed one of the glass panes in West Junction
- Columns in Cargo are hidden from Commander view
- Added cover in The Dome
- Removed the ladder access to The Dome
- Added vent between The Dome and East Junction

kalakuja

You has done blasphemy. Let all the ns_veil players burn you with their comments

statikg

I really like the new corridor to Y junction.
but:

With the exception of the pipeline spawn it has always been my perception that veil was alien favored. With that assumption in mind (which you may disagree with), I don't understand why you have made so many changes that appear to favor aliens.

- Harder to get to dome, but retained aliens ability to do so - As this is a really powerful phasegate position I feel like this is a major nerf to marines on veil
- More cover in various locations which although might have been good engagement locations for marines, I didn't feel they were imbalanced
- removed quickest route to system/fast nano siege strategy

joshhh

On paper this looks really good. I want to try it out before I make any comments.

rantology

To expand more on the purpose of these changes (there are 2 main focuses):

1. The Pipeline/Dome changes are targeted at making pipeline starting hive equal to Cargo and Sub hives in terms of map accessibility and specifically the ability to cyst/take Nano.

2. East & West junction changes, both locations now have cover and the removal of the slanted hallway in West Junction more or less equalizes it with East Junction in terms of travel time (the slanted hallway allowed marines to run back to the ARC location arguably too quickly- hence it being removed)

If the feedback could be limited to these changes in particular that would be great. The possible issue(s) regarding resource node distribution on the map is a different beast and was not intended to be addressed at this time.

and also most importantly, if anyone can do so- Please test this version out in your scrims / PCWs and post your thoughts! We would be eternally grateful.

Blarney_Stone

This looks like it will massively fix that annoying Pipeline spawn!

battlegorge

Is the vent in c12 meant to be that low that lerks get stuck walking on the ground if they stop?
Also removing the corridor to west junction means that its harder for the marines to siege double, making it more alien friendly

Shaker

battlegorge wrote: »

Also removing the corridor to west junction means that its harder for the marines to siege double, making it more alien friendly

Thats the idea. Its still going to be easy to siege, but with the angular hallway, marines can spawn and be in LoS of the arcs within seconds.

casan0vax

rantology wrote: »

if anyone can do so- Please test this version out in your scrims / PCWs and post your thoughts! We would be eternally grateful.

If anyone is going to scrim/PCW on this version of veil, add me to Steam--if I'm not away, PM me, I'd love to cast it and help out with testing this

vartija

Good looking changes. Starts to look more like ns1_veil.

While you're at it, you could also fix it so you could not actually siege sub from system. Or make the door sub-sytem entrance a big higher so you could not completely block it with armories.

Abcewaitwhat

Carefull Mendasp u get banned for saying anything bad about the game =P

However this is a awsome change the the way the current Pipeline hive is its pretty much broken in competitive play.

Jekt

Tried to test it in some public games, alien commanders couldn't cyst to nano. Said it was broken at dome and utility?

Mendasp

Jekt wrote: »

Tried to test it in some public games, alien commanders could cyst to nano. Said it was broken at dome and utility.

I identified the problem and pushed a new update.

Jekt

Thanks : D