i don't like new fade movement. it's easy to 'overshoot' with new shadowstep, and without the momentum you drop like a brick after shadowstep - shotgun bait. momentum stayed with blink - so blink/jump can be used as a pseudo bunny hop - but the cost seems to far too high (it must have increased?).
the new alien upgrade path is really interesting though. imo works really well, the hud elements are nice and it's more intuitive just dropping shells rather than having to drop a shell then make further research
You should consider removing the ns2 BT tag and just put it up as ns2, yellow listing is more than enough of a warning to be honest, not to mention the obvious ingame readyroombanner. It's pretty hard to get a server filled as most players won't join non ns2 tagged servers.
You should consider removing the ns2 BT tag and just putting it up as ns2, yellow listing is more than enough of a warning to be honest, not to mention the obvious ingame readyroombanner. It's pretty hard to get a server filled as most players won't join non ns2 tagged servers.
Most modded servers are just admin interfaces. Not only would removing the BT tag be confusing, it would also be unhelpful for the people that do want to test it.
You should consider removing the ns2 BT tag and just put it up as ns2, yellow listing is more than enough of a warning to be honest, not to mention the obvious ingame readyroombanner. It's pretty hard to get a server filled as most players won't join non ns2 tagged servers.
trick them into joining with promise of tea and biscuits
After some more playing around on Tram, I was able to get leap up at 5:45 on one hive. That really isn't too ridiculous. This required me to snag 2 harvesters while biomass 1 researched and then a 3rd harvester during the wait. Biomass 2 research started around 2:45ish. With marines acctually pressuring harvesters... I don't think this is a big deal.
After some more playing around on Tram, I was able to get leap up at 5:45 on one hive. That really isn't too ridiculous. This required me to snag 2 harvesters while biomass 1 researched and then a 3rd harvester during the wait. Biomass 2 research started around 2:45ish. With marines acctually pressuring harvesters... I don't think this is a big deal.
i had a short admin test on our server and i really like the changes so far. if enough people gather on the forums we could get a match running someday.
Did this include the 140 res to get carapace/celerity?
No, it was a straight rush to leap to see how fast I could get it on one hive which meant for the duration 5:45 I could not augment my hive for chamber upgrades.
Also the 140 Tres is to get full level 3 Cara/Cele. You can get lesser versions for cheaper. Upgrade chambers might need to be dropped down to 15 TRes per though.
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
i think you are right with the upgrade cost, probably too expensive currently. regarding the ns2 bt tag: i want that people know exactly that they join a modded server, also it makes it easier to find one running the balance mod with the in game browser.
Just played a pug last night running this. Movement was weird. Felt like there were issues in the consistancy in which it would think you're gliding and think you're falling - although maybe i'm just a big nub. There were just times where I'd try to rely on the lerk's falling to get into cover (spiking people, moving in and out of cover, using the arch in crevice), but it would think it was gliding instead and I wouldn't fall as quickly and have to adjust to survive.
Also, non-cloaked drifters seemed a bit pointless, though didn't alien command so didn't get a chance to try out the abilities.
I liked the free welder research and armories not healing armour though.
Didn't get to try out all the fade stuff, but seems pretty cool - especially the repurposing of vortex.
Just played a pug last night running this. Movement was weird. Felt like there were issues in the consistancy in which it would think you're gliding and think you're falling - although maybe i'm just a big nub. There were just times where I'd try to rely on the lerk's falling to get into cover (spiking people, moving in and out of cover, using the arch in crevice), but it would think it was gliding instead and I wouldn't fall as quickly and have to adjust to survive.
Also, non-cloaked drifters seemed a bit pointless, though didn't alien command so didn't get a chance to try out the abilities.
I liked the free welder research and armories not healing armour though.
Didn't get to try out all the fade stuff, but seems pretty cool - especially the repurposing of vortex.
The lerk movement is the one thing I am not excited about. Skulk/fade/marine are all feeling pretty good to me however (though not perfect just yet). For example crouch jump is still wonky as hell like it is in vanilla.
Drifters even uncloaked are still worth it imo, even though they may die they will still give you a heads up of an impending marine push which is what you want. If you are watching them closely you can probably save it. They are cheap so it isn't a huge investment.
I think drifters should probably come down a bit in cost now that they've lost camo to be honest.
Not sure if the movement was changed but when I tried it last night it felt better than when I first tried the mod. Less of a 'sliding' feel to it. Wish focus was added back in the game though, you could just put silence/cloak as one ability...
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
the lerk movement got the least amount of attention so far and is right now just a victim of the movement code rewrite. i will only fix bugs and keep the flight model from vanilla ns2
Walljump feels a bit different with the skulk, I cant seem to jump the instant I touch the wall like in vanilla ns2, instead it seems like I have to be properly "on" the wall for a split second then jump. Is this intended or just something being worked out with the new code?
Drifters without Shade Hive should still have the distortion cloaking effect and just be denied 100% cloak, to give them at least a tiny chance of being overlooked by marines.
Dunno. I think that the new drifters are supposed to be less of a "wallhack" (or lookout sentries, or what-have-you) unless you go with shade hive, and more of an active, expendable scout and an agent through which can Kham change battlefield in Aliens favor through his new abilities.
So I think distortions or any other tool to overlook drifter wont be really needed. Lessened cost, better path-finding and better responsiveness on the other hand....
It also increases the value of the shade tree with getting more / easier battle field intel.
That combined with ink actually working... Won a game on veil yesterday where the only reason we won was because I had crag/shade and was inking the hell out of nano.
Sewlek, at one point in the past, you had another balance mod that introduced another gun to the marines side that was basically an in-between of the standard Rifle and the shotgun. I think it might have cost 10 pres and been available with no reaserch. I want to say it fired faster than the Rifle, but with a smaller clip size, and was not 100% accurate (only really good at mid range).
Any chance of trying that out again? I thought it was a very interesting idea.
I'd like to preface this by saying please read and take some time to think about what I am saying. I will do my best to articulate my thoughts.
I feel it's best to start with a critical question: what is the role of the skulk? Is it an ambush and pack oriented creature or a foot soldier? If ambushing was your answer then why are we discussing some movement changes that don't compliment the role.
If its the latter then I ask why does our movement systems have to have some form of jumping involved? Aside from the rabbit, what other quadruped jumps repeatedly when it travels or attacks prey. I realize these are aliens but it just seems silly to bounce around the battlefield. That's not to say I won't use/learn a bunny hop or its replacement, it is after all a game and I like to win.
Now with all that I have several follow up questions. Why is celerity in the game if we're are trying to make skulks faster inherently?
Couldn't we just remove marine sprint to essentially buff aliens? (why do they even have a sprint?
Couldn't skulks just get a sprint?
By changing speeds of units what will that do to any given maps' engagement times?
Also if we're designing a head-to-head combat unit wouldn't making them have more effective health be an answer? (Although I recall a specific build were carapace gave skulks ridiculous EHP and they were nigh un-killable)
So I guess to summarize in no particular order: Why does our movement system have to be based of arbitrary, and unnatural, jumping mechanics? Do we need one? Why are we trying to make the skulk more of a head-to-head combatant?
To answer pretty much all of your questions, the skulk is an ambush unit that, when played well, needs to be fit for 'foot soldier' jobs as well, else everyone with any skill at the game will get bored.
Skulk movement being unintuitive is basically a requirement to making it nontrivial to learn and take advantage of, so that early game aliens have a learned player skill analogous to aiming for marines.
Skulk movement being unintuitive is basically a requirement to making it nontrivial to learn and take advantage of, so that early game aliens have a learned player skill analogous to aiming for marines.
Don't we already have aiming and tracking to take care of with bites?
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
SoundFX, thats really an important question, one i was asking myself for a long time people like to press the jump button. especially in more advanced gameplay, jump means (usually) preserving momentum. it just gives a very entertaining feeling when you are able to get some additional speed, and are able to maintain that by using the environment correctly (dont crash into obstacles) to continue to preserve that speed and build it up even further. now that additional speed comes also at a cost (reduced control) which makes it even more interesting because it basically increases the maximum skill level and has basically no upper limit. why "jump" has to be the way to go, i dont know. its somewhat established by now that jumping means preserve your momentum. we could also introduce something different i suppose, but that would make it for the majority of the players unintuitive at first, and would make the introduction to a skill based movement system more difficult than necessary. fortunately, jumping is not the only way to move in ns2 (see belly slide, lerk glide, jetpacks, charge, more to come?) but its still a very basic thing and generally accepted as being part of a skill based movement system.
I wonder if double-tap based quick dodging for Skulks would make any sense. See a marine opening fire on you? Double-tab the left movement control to dash quickly to the left and thus throw the marine's tracking a bit off with sudden movement on the ground. That was if Skulks needed any additional buff at all, though you could also consider making dodging an unlock that comes with Leap.
On the other hand is dodging one of the signature moves of the Fade right now.
Comments
the new alien upgrade path is really interesting though. imo works really well, the hud elements are nice and it's more intuitive just dropping shells rather than having to drop a shell then make further research
Most modded servers are just admin interfaces. Not only would removing the BT tag be confusing, it would also be unhelpful for the people that do want to test it.
trick them into joining with promise of tea and biscuits
I just installed the balance test mod to our server: Saunamen.priv 2 85.114.140.94:33350. No password if you wanna try it
No, it was a straight rush to leap to see how fast I could get it on one hive which meant for the duration 5:45 I could not augment my hive for chamber upgrades.
Also the 140 Tres is to get full level 3 Cara/Cele. You can get lesser versions for cheaper. Upgrade chambers might need to be dropped down to 15 TRes per though.
Also, non-cloaked drifters seemed a bit pointless, though didn't alien command so didn't get a chance to try out the abilities.
I liked the free welder research and armories not healing armour though.
Didn't get to try out all the fade stuff, but seems pretty cool - especially the repurposing of vortex.
The lerk movement is the one thing I am not excited about. Skulk/fade/marine are all feeling pretty good to me however (though not perfect just yet). For example crouch jump is still wonky as hell like it is in vanilla.
Drifters even uncloaked are still worth it imo, even though they may die they will still give you a heads up of an impending marine push which is what you want. If you are watching them closely you can probably save it. They are cheap so it isn't a huge investment.
Not sure if the movement was changed but when I tried it last night it felt better than when I first tried the mod. Less of a 'sliding' feel to it. Wish focus was added back in the game though, you could just put silence/cloak as one ability...
So I think distortions or any other tool to overlook drifter wont be really needed. Lessened cost, better path-finding and better responsiveness on the other hand....
Any chance of trying that out again? I thought it was a very interesting idea.
-edit-
Looked it up, it was in your NS2 Strategics mod. You called the gun the LMG.
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/comment/2057337/#Comment_2057337
but the lmg is nice too
I feel it's best to start with a critical question: what is the role of the skulk? Is it an ambush and pack oriented creature or a foot soldier? If ambushing was your answer then why are we discussing some movement changes that don't compliment the role.
If its the latter then I ask why does our movement systems have to have some form of jumping involved? Aside from the rabbit, what other quadruped jumps repeatedly when it travels or attacks prey. I realize these are aliens but it just seems silly to bounce around the battlefield. That's not to say I won't use/learn a bunny hop or its replacement, it is after all a game and I like to win.
Now with all that I have several follow up questions. Why is celerity in the game if we're are trying to make skulks faster inherently?
Couldn't we just remove marine sprint to essentially buff aliens? (why do they even have a sprint?
Couldn't skulks just get a sprint?
By changing speeds of units what will that do to any given maps' engagement times?
Also if we're designing a head-to-head combat unit wouldn't making them have more effective health be an answer? (Although I recall a specific build were carapace gave skulks ridiculous EHP and they were nigh un-killable)
So I guess to summarize in no particular order: Why does our movement system have to be based of arbitrary, and unnatural, jumping mechanics? Do we need one? Why are we trying to make the skulk more of a head-to-head combatant?
Don't we already have aiming and tracking to take care of with bites?
On the other hand is dodging one of the signature moves of the Fade right now.