ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
Railgun instagibs skulks, gorges, and lerks with a fully charged shot. I'd say its powerful. Onos has always required teamwork to take down (even dual minigun exos can't solo an onos with at least one welder).
Rail guns have issues (as in the inability to kill a onos basically) but they are OP against pretty much every thing else. To be blunt if you are having issues with killing lerks, gorges and fades you need to sit back and ask yourself why that is, my guess is your are missing a lot. A good fades yes is hard to kill but FAR from impossible to solo. People who can aim i am seeing go 20+:1 with it easily.
Railgun instagibs skulks, gorges, and lerks with a fully charged shot. I'd say its powerful. Onos has always required teamwork to take down (even dual minigun exos can't solo an onos with at least one welder).
Railguns only kill Skulks with one Shot. Gorges, Lerks and Fades dont die from one shot.
The problem with railguns is the opportunity cost. 50 res for a railgun exo, when 75 res gets you a much stronger dual minigun doesn't really make for a good purchase. The only real exception to that is if you do a fast railgun rush, in where the 25 res extra for a dual mini gun is actually a significant delay.
Anything good that you can say about the railgun, you can basically say to a much higher degree about the dual minigun. A high level player in a dual minigun is going to crush everything the railgun exo does, but do it in much larger quantities - in addition to having onos killing power.
matsoMaster of PatchesJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
Railgun is not intended to replace the minigun. So it has some special stuff that the minigun doesn't have - more mobility, the ability to shoot throught friendly entities and hit multiple enemy targets, and the ability to charge the shot.
Railgun is awesome. It's not good against onos and in close quarters its nat as good as dual minis against fades.
But against retreating Fades it's very potent... How often does a Fade retreat with less than 200 HP? Very often and thats when a railgun will finish him while a dual minigun iis far too inaccurate to do so.
I feel against skulks it is at least as good or even better better than dual miniguns because the claw is quite good and skulks are basically a oneshot with the railgun. Gorges reall are a problem because they can just retreat after biling without taking more than 200 dmg.
It's quite good against lerks for obvious reasons.
All in all I find it surprisingly well balanced as far as I percieve it so far.
Useless? Damn that thing is FUN AS HELL to play with
And to also play against. Everytime I'm a Fade and they get Rails out...the moment I hear the vvvvrrrrRRRRR-RRR-RRR-RRR noise I GTFO of the room.
Imo you have to look at the roles for dual-minigun and railgun exos.
Dual is more used to push, or defend a base against onos or gorge. Since a well placed dual exo rapes an onos 1on1. When a dual is pushing he needs the support of welders and marines around him to clear up the skulks and whatnot that enter the room, while he deals the structure damage or focus on onos.
The railgun is the opposite, he's meant to be a part of the push group, but not the one dealing the 'real' damage. He's there to pick off the incoming higher lifeforms or at least make them retreat to heal while the marines deal the real damage.
In short: Both types need teamwork to bring their advantages to the fore. The railgun in my eyes wasn't designed to be a 'hey I'm skilled at shooting, so you're dead' weapon. It's to make Aliens question whether they have enough support to actually engage, and to lower the threat from fades and lerks for the supporting marines.
I love the speed differences between the exos. I had a railgun and minigun exo trying to take on my onos in refinery yesterday, but the railgun dude was so much faster and didn't wait for his teammate. Needless to say they both died horrible, lonely deaths
On the other hand, pushing forwards with a couple of railgun exos and a couple of light marines is fast work, and you can really decimate aliens this way. Leave the dual mini exos in bases with a light marine on patrol/weld/scout duties, and it's happy days. On pubs this is, I've not had a chance to play on gathers since gorgeous hit (hopefully tonight, though!!!)
The problem with railguns is the opportunity cost. 50 res for a railgun exo, when 75 res gets you a much stronger dual minigun doesn't really make for a good purchase. The only real exception to that is if you do a fast railgun rush, in where the 25 res extra for a dual mini gun is actually a significant delay.
Anything good that you can say about the railgun, you can basically say to a much higher degree about the dual minigun. A high level player in a dual minigun is going to crush everything the railgun exo does, but do it in much larger quantities - in addition to having onos killing power.
that extra 15 res is often the difference of "did you get a shotgun, mines or jetpack+welder earlier in the round" no duals for you. We find the same concept on alien team from fade to onos. Did you gorge? no onos for you. Go fade.
The problem with railguns is the opportunity cost. 50 res for a railgun exo, when 75 res gets you a much stronger dual minigun doesn't really make for a good purchase. The only real exception to that is if you do a fast railgun rush, in where the 25 res extra for a dual mini gun is actually a significant delay.
Anything good that you can say about the railgun, you can basically say to a much higher degree about the dual minigun. A high level player in a dual minigun is going to crush everything the railgun exo does, but do it in much larger quantities - in addition to having onos killing power.
i disagree a little, in that i think it offers something unique to marines. it's like an inversed shotgun, inferior at close range but glorious at long range. for example there's no easier way to stop a gorge bilebombing from around a corner.
i'd expect the 'effective dps' (calculating damage potential only while target is still in line of sight) is probably higher than minigun in this respect.
yeah 50pres and no pg/beacon is a hell of a cost, but it does offer the smaller benefits like exo durability etc. i think the railgun balance is good enough for now.
I have no comments on the actual gameplay at this point, but I'm pretty sure most HP-aware alien players find it pretty spooky that you can lose up to 200 HP on one tick even when you're far outside the actual engagement range.
I think this is the first time in NS history (apart from some pistol craziness maybe) when the marines have a gun that doesn't have dramatic damage reduction past the close or mid ranges. I don't know whether the railgun finds it's spot in the gameplay, but I definitely see it having loads of potential on making the already hard-to-engage marine groups even harder to engage by taking away that 'low damage zone' that aliens have outiside the close promixity of marines.
Honestly the railgun is probably the one addition I actually like, I doubt I'll ever get mini gun now. It's SOOO much faster, that's the main thing. You can stomp every egg in a room in seconds, you splat skulks, and it's like going against a shotgun as a fade it's just instantly you're down a massive amount of health very difficult to deal with if they can aim. Use railgun as support, it's not a run in and gun stuff down type of thing. Let your marines take the frontline, use it to stomp eggs and to stand back and nail fades and skulks for the most part.
Been using the railgun to mainly either kill life forms below onos or scare them off, sit behind the marines and pick off the wounded fades/lerks etc. If I see an onos it's all about using that speed to get the smegging hell outa there.
I have no comments on the actual gameplay at this point, but I'm pretty sure most HP-aware alien players find it pretty spooky that you can lose up to 200 HP on one tick even when you're far outside the actual engagement range.
I think this is the first time in NS history (apart from some pistol craziness maybe) when the marines have a gun that doesn't have dramatic damage reduction past the close or mid ranges. I don't know whether the railgun finds it's spot in the gameplay, but I definitely see it having loads of potential on making the already hard-to-engage marine groups even harder to engage by taking away that 'low damage zone' that aliens have outiside the close promixity of marines.
Not to mention it goes through buildings and players... so you can't even escape by hiding behind a hive or an onos.
It's weirdly cheesy. Getting one shot from range is immensely frustrating, especially as a lifeform, and getting owned by onos is also frustrating. It just doesn't feel fair - ever. I'm not saying it's not balanced, just that it makes encounters really random and hard to predict. I either feel like I have far too much control over a situation or absolutely none. Throwing just one railgun into the mix feels like flipping a coin, albeit a coin that does crazy different stuff depending on the owner of it.
It allows you to charge the full power and unleash it in an instant, so there is a minimum time you actually have to expose yourself to enemy fire as opposed to minigun Exos.
Plus I assume that the Railgun will not be affected by Umbra.
Its hilariously that the Exo has a maximum of 580HP. The onos has a standard of 2300HP, without carapace. Also the Onos does 200 Damage with each hit, and an onos hits pretty quick. Also the Exo is very slow and has no aditional abilities to protect itself. Also it has just standard HP and no extra Armor....
That may all be true, but you're ignoring something quite important that MANY people seem to skim over when considering Alien/Marine balance
The railgun in the right hands could be the deadliest weapon in the game. The only thing it is weak against is onos or being overwhelmed by aliens (likely due to bad positioning on your part).
Also... for some odd reason the hitscan on the railgun is something absurd like 10 pixels. Someone with even semi competent aim shouldn't be able to miss anything.
The railgun is my favorite weapon to use. I wish you could carry one as a regular marine... (Mod please)?
It's weirdly cheesy. Getting one shot from range is immensely frustrating, especially as a lifeform, and getting owned by onos is also frustrating. It just doesn't feel fair - ever. I'm not saying it's not balanced, just that it makes encounters really random and hard to predict. I either feel like I have far too much control over a situation or absolutely none. Throwing just one railgun into the mix feels like flipping a coin, albeit a coin that does crazy different stuff depending on the owner of it.
Considering that, isn't it strange that so many people want devour back?
It's weirdly cheesy. Getting one shot from range is immensely frustrating, especially as a lifeform, and getting owned by onos is also frustrating. It just doesn't feel fair - ever. I'm not saying it's not balanced, just that it makes encounters really random and hard to predict. I either feel like I have far too much control over a situation or absolutely none. Throwing just one railgun into the mix feels like flipping a coin, albeit a coin that does crazy different stuff depending on the owner of it.
This is kind of what I partitially meant with the lack of low damage zone. It makes the engagement thought process and logic go crazy. It has the same kind of crazy burst damage as shotgun, but isn't controlled and kept at bay by the range in a similar way as SG. The railgun mechanics need to work so that the aliens have plenty of ways to interact with the marine wielding one. Otherwise it really is going to feel cheesy and uncontrollable for aliens.
I have some ideas on how more interaction could be added. I might post some if the railgun turns out to have long term issues with fun factor.
The railgun in the right hands could be the deadliest weapon in the game. The only thing it is weak against is onos or being overwhelmed by aliens (likely due to bad positioning on your part).
Also... for some odd reason the hitscan on the railgun is something absurd like 10 pixels. Someone with even semi competent aim shouldn't be able to miss anything.
The railgun is my favorite weapon to use. I wish you could carry one as a regular marine... (Mod please)?
It's weirdly cheesy. Getting one shot from range is immensely frustrating, especially as a lifeform, and getting owned by onos is also frustrating. It just doesn't feel fair - ever. I'm not saying it's not balanced, just that it makes encounters really random and hard to predict. I either feel like I have far too much control over a situation or absolutely none. Throwing just one railgun into the mix feels like flipping a coin, albeit a coin that does crazy different stuff depending on the owner of it.
I agree. Since they made the onos able to be heard from half the map away to warn marines, maybe something similar for exos/arcs? (why does the arc not have a moving sound???). Then at least you'd know you're about to turn the corner and get insta-gibbed (a terrible mechanic in any game imho).
Does it really go through players and buildings??! Whenever I use it and a friendly gets in the way, the shot explodes on the friendly marine and I dont see it continue o.O
Does it really go through players and buildings??! Whenever I use it and a friendly gets in the way, the shot explodes on the friendly marine and I dont see it continue o.O
Me too. It definitely goes through aliens and aliens' structures, but not friendly entities. EDIT: I was wrong about this - Definitely goes through friendlies!
i damaged a fade through a hive yesterday (he was healing from my previous shot) he was force to go to his second hive or he would of died, when you spot him or shoot him, you will see him through walls like wall hack
Does it really go through players and buildings??! Whenever I use it and a friendly gets in the way, the shot explodes on the friendly marine and I dont see it continue o.O
Me too. It definitely goes through aliens and aliens' structures, but not friendly entities.
No it most definitely goes through friendly players. Fires right through a fellow exo.
Comments
Railguns only kill Skulks with one Shot. Gorges, Lerks and Fades dont die from one shot.
Anything good that you can say about the railgun, you can basically say to a much higher degree about the dual minigun. A high level player in a dual minigun is going to crush everything the railgun exo does, but do it in much larger quantities - in addition to having onos killing power.
For pure dps, the minigun is better.
But against retreating Fades it's very potent... How often does a Fade retreat with less than 200 HP? Very often and thats when a railgun will finish him while a dual minigun iis far too inaccurate to do so.
I feel against skulks it is at least as good or even better better than dual miniguns because the claw is quite good and skulks are basically a oneshot with the railgun. Gorges reall are a problem because they can just retreat after biling without taking more than 200 dmg.
It's quite good against lerks for obvious reasons.
All in all I find it surprisingly well balanced as far as I percieve it so far.
And to also play against. Everytime I'm a Fade and they get Rails out...the moment I hear the vvvvrrrrRRRRR-RRR-RRR-RRR noise I GTFO of the room.
Imo you have to look at the roles for dual-minigun and railgun exos.
Dual is more used to push, or defend a base against onos or gorge. Since a well placed dual exo rapes an onos 1on1. When a dual is pushing he needs the support of welders and marines around him to clear up the skulks and whatnot that enter the room, while he deals the structure damage or focus on onos.
The railgun is the opposite, he's meant to be a part of the push group, but not the one dealing the 'real' damage. He's there to pick off the incoming higher lifeforms or at least make them retreat to heal while the marines deal the real damage.
In short: Both types need teamwork to bring their advantages to the fore. The railgun in my eyes wasn't designed to be a 'hey I'm skilled at shooting, so you're dead' weapon. It's to make Aliens question whether they have enough support to actually engage, and to lower the threat from fades and lerks for the supporting marines.
On the other hand, pushing forwards with a couple of railgun exos and a couple of light marines is fast work, and you can really decimate aliens this way. Leave the dual mini exos in bases with a light marine on patrol/weld/scout duties, and it's happy days. On pubs this is, I've not had a chance to play on gathers since gorgeous hit (hopefully tonight, though!!!)
Roo
that extra 15 res is often the difference of "did you get a shotgun, mines or jetpack+welder earlier in the round" no duals for you. We find the same concept on alien team from fade to onos. Did you gorge? no onos for you. Go fade.
i disagree a little, in that i think it offers something unique to marines. it's like an inversed shotgun, inferior at close range but glorious at long range. for example there's no easier way to stop a gorge bilebombing from around a corner.
i'd expect the 'effective dps' (calculating damage potential only while target is still in line of sight) is probably higher than minigun in this respect.
yeah 50pres and no pg/beacon is a hell of a cost, but it does offer the smaller benefits like exo durability etc. i think the railgun balance is good enough for now.
I think this is the first time in NS history (apart from some pistol craziness maybe) when the marines have a gun that doesn't have dramatic damage reduction past the close or mid ranges. I don't know whether the railgun finds it's spot in the gameplay, but I definitely see it having loads of potential on making the already hard-to-engage marine groups even harder to engage by taking away that 'low damage zone' that aliens have outiside the close promixity of marines.
Not to mention it goes through buildings and players... so you can't even escape by hiding behind a hive or an onos.
Plus I assume that the Railgun will not be affected by Umbra.
That may all be true, but you're ignoring something quite important that MANY people seem to skim over when considering Alien/Marine balance
MARINES CAN DO THEIR DAMAGE AT RANGE
Also... for some odd reason the hitscan on the railgun is something absurd like 10 pixels. Someone with even semi competent aim shouldn't be able to miss anything.
The railgun is my favorite weapon to use. I wish you could carry one as a regular marine... (Mod please)?
Considering that, isn't it strange that so many people want devour back?
This is kind of what I partitially meant with the lack of low damage zone. It makes the engagement thought process and logic go crazy. It has the same kind of crazy burst damage as shotgun, but isn't controlled and kept at bay by the range in a similar way as SG. The railgun mechanics need to work so that the aliens have plenty of ways to interact with the marine wielding one. Otherwise it really is going to feel cheesy and uncontrollable for aliens.
I have some ideas on how more interaction could be added. I might post some if the railgun turns out to have long term issues with fun factor.
jetpack + railgun, hellooooooo 100:0 kdr :P
I agree. Since they made the onos able to be heard from half the map away to warn marines, maybe something similar for exos/arcs? (why does the arc not have a moving sound???). Then at least you'd know you're about to turn the corner and get insta-gibbed (a terrible mechanic in any game imho).
No it most definitely goes through friendly players. Fires right through a fellow exo.