While I do like 16-18 player servers the best I do enjoy playing on 24 player servers sometimes. Games often last much longer since 1 players individual skill makes less of an impact. Unless teams are badly stacked you usually don't get 1 guy rofl stomping every one winning the game or making the other team f4. 24 player servers are also a good place to just go in and practice whatever skill it is you are trying to work on. You can always find combat easily and endlessly.
Big downside is strategy goes out the window. The depth of 24 player strategy simply boils down to who can throw the most number of bodys at a situation wins it. It's the closest thing to NS2 you will get w/o the RTS side. I suspect servers will slowly evolve into smaller player counts as the general skill of every one picks up and people look more balanced, strategy rich games the smaller servers bring. When that will be I have no idea.
I don't think I could play on anything less than 8v8 especially on the bigger maps.
Large servers are good in that they help even up the balance by making low numbers of fades and Onos unable to solo entire pushes so there isn't a huge swing from a single lifeform.
They also help even up the base vulnerability by giving marines enough concentrated fire power to make alien base defence as urgent as marine base defence always is.
I think it also helps marines because weapons dropped are much more likely to be recovered too.
It does a lot to rein in aliens mobility advantage as well. While it still exists and is still usefull there is much less chance of being able to attack something completely unopposed and aliens traversing the map to harass harvesters are much more likely to be randomly encountered/intercepted, plus more sets of eyes reduces sneaking power.
I could also cope with having an exo or GL player in a huge server. They wouldn't be as big of a drain on combat effectiveness/ mobility as on a small team and GL aoe scales in usefullness with enemy team size. I guess thats a round about way of saying that having team members screwing around matters less too.
24 slots are a horror, and generally painful to play on.
Strategy is mostly out the window, and all is reduced to shoot & die within 2 minutes of spawn.
I also had this on 16 players servers. Does this mean they are also all terrible? I've had some great games on 24 players servers where both teams had to relocate their base several times and the game went on for more than 70-80 minutes. It was one of the best gaming experiences I've ever had and surely it wouldn't have been as much fun on a 16 players server. Sure, these servers attract more rookies and new players who want as much action as possible without any regard to strategy or tactics, but that doesn't mean it happens all the time.
Ow I am sure a 24 slot server can have good games. But in the end its a watered down version due to lacking certain elements, and its not what I signed up for on the long run.
To be able to sneak into something on a 24 man server may be possible, but the chance one of those 12 players is not sleeping is huge.
Spammy/lots of action gameplay is the type of gameplay I love...... slow gameplay with less action = boring. I guess it all stems back from my 9v9 TFC clan play.... now that was spammy and filled with action, but incredibly fun at the same time.
i join 24 player servers, ones with 16 usually end up with 5 or 6 players left after a few games or if the teams get stacked etc, their longevity to hold a decent number of players is poor and the 24 players servers can survive 5-8 people leaving after a game
Just to quickly throw 2 cents in. 24p can be fun, but the size of ns2 maps almost guarantees "trench warfare". Slightly larger maps, more halls, and rooms w/o tech/res that are strategically important for both teams would help 24p servers.
Somewhere in the ns2 mapping guidelines it says redundant/extra hallways are bad. But at larger player counts they would be beneficial for increasing tactical options and flanking. More pipes, less clogs.
I have read some thoughtful answers, but I contend it's merely a public server thing. They did the same thing in UT, Q3, TF2, CS, etc. None of those games were particularly imbalanced, and they were god awful with 20+ players on a server. But pubbies loved them, so let them enjoy their crazy overflowing servers. Hell, I used to join the 32man Dust servers back in the day just for a laugh. It's mindless, which can sometimes be enjoyable. Does it make sense? No. But it's hectic and fun, with very little pressure to play well. I tend to listen to music and mute sound/vchat when I join these kinds of servers.
I just hope we can keep some 16 slot servers. It's somewhat time consuming to find a 16/18 slot public server lately.
That's true to a point scardybob, but not the all-inclusive answer. At least half to 3/4 of the population of my server are people who've been playing there for months now. They might have initially joined it for the reason you mentioned, but when good games are had, which are very typical on larger servers with good players (both skill and attitude), they tend to stick to them.
Most of my regulars will probably also tell you I'm anal about team balance as well. In fact I know some have ragequit because I regularly shuffle players around to balance games. It sucks, and you're not going to please everyone, but I'd rather piss one or two people off then watch any game devolve into a lopsided mess.
And I also lol'ed at whoever flagged my post for abuse, assuming it was for stating that strofix was spouting crap. Like I said, you can't please everyone, and I stopped trying that a long time ago :P
Spammy/lots of action gameplay is the type of gameplay I love...... slow gameplay with less action = boring. I guess it all stems back from my 9v9 TFC clan play.... now that was spammy and filled with action, but incredibly fun at the same time.
You're playing in the wrong pubs then, there is a lot of action in 6v6/8v8., you need a good commander to direct rookies/new players to objectives, otherwise they'll roam around aimlessy at the map.
24 player servers are just the Tower Defense version of an RTS game. Something for the ADD gamers who just want to kill things and not have to think.
That's fine with me but at the very least it would be good for the server browser to list them as modded. If a new player only experiences the fucstercluck that is 12v12 it's only clouding a large portion of game mechanics and metagame that he/she will not notice or care for and more than likely wont help in retaining them as a regular.
I have read some thoughtful answers, but I contend it's merely a public server thing. They did the same thing in UT, Q3, TF2, CS, etc. None of those games were particularly imbalanced, and they were god awful with 20+ players on a server. But pubbies loved them, so let them enjoy their crazy overflowing servers. Hell, I used to join the 32man Dust servers back in the day just for a laugh. It's mindless, which can sometimes be enjoyable. Does it make sense? No. But it's hectic and fun, with very little pressure to play well. I tend to listen to music and mute sound/vchat when I join these kinds of servers.
I just hope we can keep some 16 slot servers. It's somewhat time consuming to find a 16/18 slot public server lately.
I like the word "pubbies". It's like "muggles" in Harry Potter. It's like we who play on pubs, especially 24 player servers, are not real NS2 players. We're sad half-breeds who could never really appreciate the real game of NS2 like a pure gamer.
24 player servers are just the Tower Defense version of an RTS game. Something for the ADD gamers who just want to kill things and not have to think.
That's fine with me but at the very least it would be good for the server browser to list them as modded. If a new player only experiences the fucstercluck that is 12v12 it's only clouding a large portion of game mechanics and metagame that he/she will not notice or care for and more than likely wont help in retaining them as a regular.
God I love misinformed people like this. I mean, it shouldn't be possible to get all the ADD gamers in my fucstercluck to do anything like what we did a couple nights ago running rounds playing hide and seek, where we gave marines a time limit on researching jetpacks and mines and find their hiding spots, then within a certain amount of time have the aliens track down and kill every marine who could only use mines and his axe. If they couldn't find and kill every marine, marines won. We did this with all 24 players, with brand new people coming in the server and joining right in. Everyone listened. But again, us ADD gamers who only want to run around killing stuff don't do things like this on these big dumb servers, ever.
Well, sorry, but he was spouting crap with absolutely no meaningful input to this thread whatsoever, so flag away, if me talking about other people somehow compels you to feel the need to act in their defense.
Well, sorry, but he was spouting crap with absolutely no meaningful input to this thread whatsoever, so flag away, if me talking about other people somehow compels you to feel the need to act in their defense.
I think if you weren't always so aggressive you might learn something on this forum. Not least of all how to have a sense of humor.
24 player servers are just the Tower Defense version of an RTS game. Something for the ADD gamers who just want to kill things and not have to think.
That's fine with me but at the very least it would be good for the server browser to list them as modded. If a new player only experiences the fucstercluck that is 12v12 it's only clouding a large portion of game mechanics and metagame that he/she will not notice or care for and more than likely wont help in retaining them as a regular.
God I love misinformed people like this. I mean, it shouldn't be possible to get all the ADD gamers in my fucstercluck to do anything like what we did a couple nights ago running rounds playing hide and seek, where we gave marines a time limit on researching jetpacks and mines and find their hiding spots, then within a certain amount of time have the aliens track down and kill every marine who could only use mines and his axe. If they couldn't find and kill every marine, marines won. We did this with all 24 players, with brand new people coming in the server and joining right in. Everyone listened. But again, us ADD gamers who only want to run around killing stuff don't do things like this on these big dumb servers, ever.
I don't think an example of how you got 23 other players to explicitly not play the game as intended is a testament to how easy it is to get 23 other players to play the game as intended.
I get humor just fine, and I'm sure it was humorous to you and anyone else who look down on 24 player servers as cluster fucks. But since 24 player servers is pretty much what I do, I'm sure you can see how I didn't see it as funny, and called it for pretty much exactly what it was.
you forgot to mention that Mavick's pub has some self centered admins and allows people to afk and spectate making it hard for people to join.
I'm happy to discourage people who spend all game looking at the scoreboard and screaming about afk's rather then playing from joining my server
Well, since you made that point. I can tell you I don't scream about afk's. I'm just saying you have a few admins that kick people for making valid points about afk's and people trying to join the server to play. Why in on earth would you let someone sit in the ready room for 6 games in a row when people are trying to join the game and actually play. Makes no sense to me whatsoever.
Never said and never going to say we're perfect, but we have a general idea of when to give a fuck, and when not too. I think I remember the night you're talking about tho, and I'm pretty sure there were admins in spec most of those rounds with that afk'er, keeping the teams even. But I could be wrong. I'm sure as hell not going to worry about such serious shit like this tho :P
Never said and never going to say we're perfect, but we have a general idea of when to give a fuck, and when not too. I think I remember the night you're talking about tho, and I'm pretty sure there were admins in spec most of those rounds with that afk'er, keeping the teams even. But I could be wrong. I'm sure as hell not going to worry about such serious shit like this tho :P
I don't expect you or anybody to be perfect. I'm just saying you need to find admins who are willing to be fair and just. You have a few good admins and then again you have some admins that slay people for the fun of it and abuse admin powers. I was kicked only once because I brought up the fact that there were 5 people afk in the ready room. I was smart enough after that to just not say anything. But I see other people getting kicked and the admins abusing powers all the time.
I've pubbed on Mavick's pub plenty, and I think I've seen people get kicked a grand total of twice (not counting afk kicks). Both for justifiable reasons. It's one of the best servers around when it comes to admin quality, precisely because the admins don't do anything unless it's absolutely necessary.
Semi-related side note, but there's really no reason for admins to do much of anything beyond routine stuff like kicking AFKs. Most problems that people have can be solved via in-game methods without any intervention whatsoever. There's just not much people can do that actually warrants being kicked. Off the top of my head, mass chat spam and troll comming are the only two things I can think of that would ever require admin intervention at all.
Comments
Big downside is strategy goes out the window. The depth of 24 player strategy simply boils down to who can throw the most number of bodys at a situation wins it. It's the closest thing to NS2 you will get w/o the RTS side. I suspect servers will slowly evolve into smaller player counts as the general skill of every one picks up and people look more balanced, strategy rich games the smaller servers bring. When that will be I have no idea.
Large servers are good in that they help even up the balance by making low numbers of fades and Onos unable to solo entire pushes so there isn't a huge swing from a single lifeform.
They also help even up the base vulnerability by giving marines enough concentrated fire power to make alien base defence as urgent as marine base defence always is.
I think it also helps marines because weapons dropped are much more likely to be recovered too.
It does a lot to rein in aliens mobility advantage as well. While it still exists and is still usefull there is much less chance of being able to attack something completely unopposed and aliens traversing the map to harass harvesters are much more likely to be randomly encountered/intercepted, plus more sets of eyes reduces sneaking power.
I could also cope with having an exo or GL player in a huge server. They wouldn't be as big of a drain on combat effectiveness/ mobility as on a small team and GL aoe scales in usefullness with enemy team size. I guess thats a round about way of saying that having team members screwing around matters less too.
Ow I am sure a 24 slot server can have good games. But in the end its a watered down version due to lacking certain elements, and its not what I signed up for on the long run.
To be able to sneak into something on a 24 man server may be possible, but the chance one of those 12 players is not sleeping is huge.
It promotes spammy gameplay and makes both client and server performance total crap.
Spammy/lots of action gameplay is the type of gameplay I love...... slow gameplay with less action = boring. I guess it all stems back from my 9v9 TFC clan play.... now that was spammy and filled with action, but incredibly fun at the same time.
Somewhere in the ns2 mapping guidelines it says redundant/extra hallways are bad. But at larger player counts they would be beneficial for increasing tactical options and flanking. More pipes, less clogs.
I just hope we can keep some 16 slot servers. It's somewhat time consuming to find a 16/18 slot public server lately.
Most of my regulars will probably also tell you I'm anal about team balance as well. In fact I know some have ragequit because I regularly shuffle players around to balance games. It sucks, and you're not going to please everyone, but I'd rather piss one or two people off then watch any game devolve into a lopsided mess.
And I also lol'ed at whoever flagged my post for abuse, assuming it was for stating that strofix was spouting crap. Like I said, you can't please everyone, and I stopped trying that a long time ago :P
You're playing in the wrong pubs then, there is a lot of action in 6v6/8v8., you need a good commander to direct rookies/new players to objectives, otherwise they'll roam around aimlessy at the map.
That's fine with me but at the very least it would be good for the server browser to list them as modded. If a new player only experiences the fucstercluck that is 12v12 it's only clouding a large portion of game mechanics and metagame that he/she will not notice or care for and more than likely wont help in retaining them as a regular.
I like the word "pubbies". It's like "muggles" in Harry Potter. It's like we who play on pubs, especially 24 player servers, are not real NS2 players. We're sad half-breeds who could never really appreciate the real game of NS2 like a pure gamer.
God I love misinformed people like this. I mean, it shouldn't be possible to get all the ADD gamers in my fucstercluck to do anything like what we did a couple nights ago running rounds playing hide and seek, where we gave marines a time limit on researching jetpacks and mines and find their hiding spots, then within a certain amount of time have the aliens track down and kill every marine who could only use mines and his axe. If they couldn't find and kill every marine, marines won. We did this with all 24 players, with brand new people coming in the server and joining right in. Everyone listened. But again, us ADD gamers who only want to run around killing stuff don't do things like this on these big dumb servers, ever.
Good guess.
I think if you weren't always so aggressive you might learn something on this forum. Not least of all how to have a sense of humor.
I don't think an example of how you got 23 other players to explicitly not play the game as intended is a testament to how easy it is to get 23 other players to play the game as intended.
I'm happy to discourage people who spend all game looking at the scoreboard and screaming about afk's rather then playing from joining my server
Well, since you made that point. I can tell you I don't scream about afk's. I'm just saying you have a few admins that kick people for making valid points about afk's and people trying to join the server to play. Why in on earth would you let someone sit in the ready room for 6 games in a row when people are trying to join the game and actually play. Makes no sense to me whatsoever.
I don't expect you or anybody to be perfect. I'm just saying you need to find admins who are willing to be fair and just. You have a few good admins and then again you have some admins that slay people for the fun of it and abuse admin powers. I was kicked only once because I brought up the fact that there were 5 people afk in the ready room. I was smart enough after that to just not say anything. But I see other people getting kicked and the admins abusing powers all the time.
Semi-related side note, but there's really no reason for admins to do much of anything beyond routine stuff like kicking AFKs. Most problems that people have can be solved via in-game methods without any intervention whatsoever. There's just not much people can do that actually warrants being kicked. Off the top of my head, mass chat spam and troll comming are the only two things I can think of that would ever require admin intervention at all.