What I could never understand is why the winning team gets all bent out of shape over winning the game via concede. I mean seriously, you won - they lost. You were the better team. It's over. Why complain?
Imagine having a sex and all of a sudden, she gets up and walks away.
Some members of this community really need to get over this "proper win" thing. It's good manners in most RTS games to gg when the games over rather than waiting for the enemy to finish grinding the base. It is still a proper win! If you watch the NS2 competitive games you see this a lot, one team will call gg so they can move on to the next round and have another shot. There is nothing wrong with this! The games are most fun when you don't know who's going to win. The last 5 or 10 minutes of the game just ends up being target practice at best and repeated spawn death at worst. Why do you expect people to play through that every time?!
Complaints that people are conceding too early might be valid. I've seen a few games where the team are shocked the other team conceded. As people get better at the game this will probably reduce. It isn't a reason to remove concede (or add any arbitrary limits like "you must have 1 tech point to concede").
Didn't we have this whole discussion a couple of months earlier? People argueing wheter or not to F4, since giving up in a teamgame is selfish? The judo analogy does not fit because judo is not a teamsport. There is no tapping out in teamsports and before you come up with competetive players conceding or mercy ruling in highschool sports, that does not apply to pub gaming. These teams have a captain/coach who decides to throw the game or there is some ruling that above a certain score, the match is over.
The judo analogy wasn't meant for that, it was to come up with something marginally less out of place than sex.
Concede needs a bit of work, but it's far FAR better than F4 and recycling (which I consider trolling unless it's done with prior consultation with the team... this is sometimes needed before the 5 minute mark, for example we had one game where for some reason no-one could build anything when they tried comming...)
I'd like to see the %age required for concede upped a bit (>50% preferably), but apart from that, I think it's fine as it is.
Some members of this community really need to get over this "proper win" thing. It's good manners in most RTS games to gg when the games over rather than waiting for the enemy to finish grinding the base. It is still a proper win! If you watch the NS2 competitive games you see this a lot, one team will call gg so they can move on to the next round and have another shot. There is nothing wrong with this! The games are most fun when you don't know who's going to win. The last 5 or 10 minutes of the game just ends up being target practice at best and repeated spawn death at worst. Why do you expect people to play through that every time?!
Complaints that people are conceding too early might be valid. I've seen a few games where the team are shocked the other team conceded. As people get better at the game this will probably reduce. It isn't a reason to remove concede (or add any arbitrary limits like "you must have 1 tech point to concede").
I agree.
In some cases, people can concede too early, yes. Is this common, not really. What was very common though, were games that went on for another frustrating 15-20 minutes, or even longer, when it's already painfully obvious a loss is the only outcome possible. These tended to end in f4 or recyclings anyway. A vote is just more civil.
Some members of this community really need to get over this "proper win" thing. It's good manners in most RTS games to gg when the games over rather than waiting for the enemy to finish grinding the base. It is still a proper win! If you watch the NS2 competitive games you see this a lot, one team will call gg so they can move on to the next round and have another shot. There is nothing wrong with this! The games are most fun when you don't know who's going to win. The last 5 or 10 minutes of the game just ends up being target practice at best and repeated spawn death at worst. Why do you expect people to play through that every time?!
Complaints that people are conceding too early might be valid. I've seen a few games where the team are shocked the other team conceded. As people get better at the game this will probably reduce. It isn't a reason to remove concede (or add any arbitrary limits like "you must have 1 tech point to concede").
Except that finishing off that hive or marine base that was untouchable for the whole duration of the game is actually fun. "Oh, we won." -isn't nearly as fun as "KILL THE CC <BOOM!> YAY WE WIN!" ...I'm still in favor of concede but I just wish we could make it some sort of "aliens get superbuffed to finish marines off for 1 minute" -kinda thing.
"Concede"... Srsly what's wrong with "Surrender"...
Except that finishing off that hive or marine base that was untouchable for the whole duration of the game is actually fun. "Oh, we won." -isn't nearly as fun as "KILL THE CC <BOOM!> YAY WE WIN!"
If the opposing team was capable of finishing the game, then they should have done so when they had the chance.
Why should people stick around as target dummies so other people can stroke their epeens killing them over and over again before eventually getting around to finishing the game?
However, the bottom line is that concede isn't the problem and it has never been the problem. The real issue is that there comes a point in the game when a team can no longer win the game, but the game isn't over. There is so little forgiveness in this game, that once you lose -insert some objective- that it really isn't possible to stage a comeback. No one wants to play a game they have no chance to win.
No one.
So one of three things will happen. Either they will concede, or if you make it so they can't concede, then people will either F4/disconnect, or recycle if they are marines. None of those 'wins' are any better than concede.
In MMA tap outs only occur when someone is convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt they lost. This is obviously not the same as conceding in ns2.
How so? Can't speak for anyone else but I don't concede unless I know beyond a shadow of a doubt.
You are not everyone. The concede option is abused by players of many, but not all types. Good players generally aren't conceding more than 2 out of 5 games I notice, and I'm being generous as to not bring down hellfire on me, haha.
I support concede and is totally needed until the game is tweaked more. I have played many games that should have ended long ago but the aliens keep running into the last comm section, getting their kills and then leaving to come back and do it all over again a minute later. They are just toying with the Marines and want to rack up kills or maybe they are just cruel (who knows). If the Aliens wont do the right thing and end the game swiftly and mercifully then concede is needed.
On the other hand, I have never seen a Marine team toy with Aliens and just do their business they kill the hive as quickly as they can... At least on the servers I play on.
It has to go. So many people just give up to easy and if it looks even remotely close like they might not win they give up. "Opp, we just lost 2 Oni, GG, I vote concide"
This is just not the way this game was meant to be played, finish it out, die like men if you need to. Many times I have seen games go to concide and it was still in question who will really win.
Not every time you play you will win, losing is part of the game so tough it out.
Many times I have seen some of the best NS2 players on a server playing and if things look like they are going to be on the losing end they quit, leave the server. I guess they dont want to hurt their KDR or they just dont want to man up and do the best they can and help a losing team maybe pull one out and win.
Except that finishing off that hive or marine base that was untouchable for the whole duration of the game is actually fun. "Oh, we won." -isn't nearly as fun as "KILL THE CC <BOOM!> YAY WE WIN!"
If the opposing team was capable of finishing the game, then they should have done so when they had the chance.
Why should people stick around as target dummies so other people can stroke their epeens killing them over and over again before eventually getting around to finishing the game?
However, the bottom line is that concede isn't the problem and it has never been the problem. The real issue is that there comes a point in the game when a team can no longer win the game, but the game isn't over. There is so little forgiveness in this game, that once you lose -insert some objective- that it really isn't possible to stage a comeback. No one wants to play a game they have no chance to win.
No one.
So one of three things will happen. Either they will concede, or if you make it so they can't concede, then people will either F4/disconnect, or recycle if they are marines. None of those 'wins' are any better than concede.
I was just responding to Emoo explaining a "proper win". I said I'm in favor of concede, as poor an implementation it is right now.
Id rather people played the games out IMO, alot of people are acting like this is starcraft where people GG when there base is being hit with the killing blow.....
NS2 is not starcraft, its not a 1on1 game.....yes games can go long IF one team is bad enough to let a turtle last that long.
That and as others have said how will anyone ever know how to take the last base thats well defended if everyone starts giving up earlier and earlier. People are posting about games being over after losing your first 3 rts, and a 90% win rate after that and thats just BS when ive seen first hand wins from 1 base and 1 rt against the whole map being taken over on both alien and marine(More on marine but it has happend on alien) those are the games where its 90% chance.
And again quit comparing it to starcraft if you wana give up so easy, go ahead im just not for it, I like taking the last base and fighting for my last base.
But i do understand not everone likes that and if they wana concede fine but IMO it will be a sad day when NS2 games end halfway though because the odds are stacked against ya, I can see a losing game coming as easy as the next guy doesnt im giving up on my team mid battle or in the last stand.
also i feel like my post came of as abit offensive, apologies for that i just feel strongly about this topic....it actually got me to register to the forums.
I comm'd a game on Veil last night. We had Control and Pipe. Onos came out, we had to beacon, then lost Pipe. They started to box us in with forward crag bases.
At this point the morale starts to waver. But a voice on the channel says but we still have an Exo and jetpacks, and I suggested an immediate all out strike on the Subsector hive, which we took as well as Nano.
Then the aliens conceded before the ARC train got to Cargo. Simultaneously so satisfying and unsatisfying.
But at one point people were, including me, thinking about giving up.
So there's a morale metagame to commanding now, which I guess is cool. I wish players weren't so weak though. My grandma could chase down twice as many Onos with that hatchet.
TLDR: I suggest making Concede a two way protocol. Team A voted to concede. Team B: Do you accept?
In MMA tap outs only occur when someone is convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt they lost. This is obviously not the same as conceding in ns2.
How so? Can't speak for anyone else but I don't concede unless I know beyond a shadow of a doubt.
You are not everyone. The concede option is abused by players of many, but not all types. Good players generally aren't conceding more than 2 out of 5 games I notice, and I'm being generous as to not bring down hellfire on me, haha.
Never said I was, but hopefully you see the problem you're getting into when you make broad statements like that and assume the actions of some are relevant to others.
I'm 90% certain savant and hakenspit are the same account at this point and I'm 99% certain neither of you if you aren't the same person have played NS2 in the last month.
The whole point of concede was to address the fact if marines (or aliens) get ahead and aliens are stuck on 1 hive past the 10-15 min mark while marines (or aliens) drag it out, getting every upgrade, all proto, sentries in each tech node, they could finish the game. The above scenario has been documented on the forums about 100 times and even acknowledged by the devs, the marines have no incentive to rush the game and potentially get back doored and lose a certain win (th-thanks power nodes you're the best mechanic), they're rewarded by turtling at this point. Since it was implemented with a 5 min timer tells me someone at UWE wants to watch the world burn, I can only imagine it was deliberately set that way to achieve the malicious results it's getting by ending games at ridiculous times because people can't be arsed to make a play or play the game out.
The amount of times I've seen 2 base marines concede is staggering, the amount of times I've seen 3 hive aliens drop down to 2 hive aliens concede is staggering, 9/10 comms don't have the sack to press the recycle button even for legitimate reasons like losing a base let alone recycling IPs out from under people, I've seen about 3 bases recycled in the last month and 2 would have been me doing it.
All this manner esports bullshit from SC2 can fuck off, they're playing ladder/tourney matches that are recorded and graded against other players and assigned into leagues to ensure you're playing against even people, people in scrims/wars are interested in winning and only winning, they hit the point of no return in such small 6v6 environments they know they have a snowballs chance in hell to pull off a rush vs anyone with a pulse in the comm chair/hive, we're talking about 8v8+ public sized games, no stats are recorded, no ELO, no ladder, no need to concede instantly when you lose a second or third hive or don't like being on 3-4 RTs by 5 mins and decide to re make the game.
Why should people stick around as target dummies so other people can stroke their epeens killing them over and over again before eventually getting around to finishing the game?
That's an uncharitable interpretation of the "let us finish the game properly" viewpoint.
Smashing the last hive or chair is the equivalent of a victory lap or an end-zone dance. For most people (not all) it's a great deal of fun, perhaps even an essential part of the gameplay experience, despite the fact that there's no longer any "game" at that point (i.e. there's no contest, no meaningful opposition, no challenge, and no skill). Even the losers can get something out of it... a kind of catharsis, a sense of finality and closure to that particular game which then serves as a natural transition to the next game... it can even be an opportunity for camaraderie both with your fellow losing teammates AND your winning opponents.
Even if you're the type who can find no fun whatsoever in seeing your opponents enjoy their victory, surely you can see that many people do want to relish their win a bit, and perhaps you could indulge them... as they will then indulge you in yours, some other time.
Mind you - nobody wants the winner to take TWO victory laps, or dance in the endzone during the whole commercial break. That's why I suggested that conceding should give the winners a brief period in which to "finish the game properly" if in fact they can. Thirty, sixty, maybe ninety seconds, tops.
I think something like that would satisfy many of the people on both (all three? four?) sides of this discussion.
I'm 90% certain savant and hakenspit are the same account at this point and I'm 99% certain neither of you if you aren't the same person have played NS2 in the last month.
The whole point of concede was to address the fact if marines (or aliens) get ahead and aliens are stuck on 1 hive past the 10-15 min mark while marines (or aliens) drag it out, getting every upgrade, all proto, sentries in each tech node, they could finish the game. The above scenario has been documented on the forums about 100 times and even acknowledged by the devs, the marines have no incentive to rush the game and potentially get back doored and lose a certain win (th-thanks power nodes you're the best mechanic), they're rewarded by turtling at this point. Since it was implemented with a 5 min timer tells me someone at UWE wants to watch the world burn, I can only imagine it was deliberately set that way to achieve the malicious results it's getting by ending games at ridiculous times because people can't be arsed to make a play or play the game out.
The amount of times I've seen 2 base marines concede is staggering, the amount of times I've seen 3 hive aliens drop down to 2 hive aliens concede is staggering, 9/10 comms don't have the sack to press the recycle button even for legitimate reasons like losing a base let alone recycling IPs out from under people, I've seen about 3 bases recycled in the last month and 2 would have been me doing it.
All this manner esports bullshit from SC2 can fuck off, they're playing ladder/tourney matches that are recorded and graded against other players and assigned into leagues to ensure you're playing against even people, people in scrims/wars are interested in winning and only winning, they hit the point of no return in such small 6v6 environments they know they have a snowballs chance in hell to pull off a rush vs anyone with a pulse in the comm chair/hive, we're talking about 8v8+ public sized games, no stats are recorded, no ELO, no ladder, no need to concede instantly when you lose a second or third hive or don't like being on 3-4 RTs by 5 mins and decide to re make the game.
Which shows how little you seem to know.
I normally oppose savant on principle...but seeing as you seem to believe we are teh same person...yes its all a big conspiracy.
Concede votes only flaw is that neither team is informed of a vote in progress.
Remove concede we simply head back to f4 (for aliens) or recycle & f4 for marines.
People can still concede and keep playing...this is not the case with f4.
F4 impacts the winning team negatively as they have to sit in a holding pattern.
I saw you today moaning in a server today in a 50+ min game that ended via concede.
When the alien team eventually conceded having lost 3 hives in 10 minutes and where down to 1 hive.
You had a 4:1 K:D ratio but still felt like you have been robbed and that aliens somehow should have been continuing to play.
Sorry but that game was over...had been from the time I joined, but the aliens stuck it out for a lot longer than was warranted.
Just because you thought it should still be going you had no idea about alien teams hive numbers, upgrades or P-res.
Those on the losing side conceded after a 50 minute game....woe is you.
You want to play every game completely....then make some bots.
People simply wont sit there to be your whipping boy.
Oh and crazyeddie...Victory dances are poor sportsmanship...its all about show boating or e-wangs.
I like how you leave out after the concede the entire marine team was confused as to why aliens conceded, the game was very contend-able, wasn't just me wondering wtf happened. It was 2-3 people bitching on aliens because the comm left and no one stepped up to comm aliens for a good 5 or so mins while they sat around on maxed out TRes farming the marine team with hallucination/drifter rushes, you don't stack teams, farm the opposing side for 20 minutes then concede when things stop going your way which is exactly what happened and pretend the marine team should be happy with that victory.
ROBBED.
Agree on visibility of votes and it should be timed, X has started vote to concede/changemap/votekick whatever, otherwise people AFK in base while whining in team chat instead of playing the game and make everyone else want to stop playing.
Oh and crazyeddie...Victory dances are poor sportsmanship...
That's utterly dependent on the particular sport in question and the social conventions adopted by the community that plays that particular sport.
There's absolutely nothing unsportsmanlike about victory laps in auto racing or end-zone displays in U.S. football. But such a display would be unseemly in, say, a chess match.
I like how you leave out after the concede the entire marine team was confused as to why aliens conceded, the game was very contend-able, wasn't just me wondering wtf happened. It was 2-3 people bitching on aliens because the comm left and no one stepped up to comm aliens for a good 5 or so mins while they sat around on maxed out TRes farming the marine team with hallucination/drifter rushes, you don't stack teams, farm the opposing side for 20 minutes then concede when things stop going your way which is exactly what happened and pretend the marine team should be happy with that victory.
ROBBED.
Agree on visibility of votes and it should be timed, X has started vote to concede/changemap/votekick whatever, otherwise people AFK in base while whining in team chat instead of playing the game and make everyone else want to stop playing.
Well I was not around for first 40 min of the game....can only speak for last 10-15 I was involved in.
The khamm had left and another player was partially comming by the time I joined (the lower player number team) and that was at the 40 min mark...the team kept playing for atelast another 10-15 min.
In which time I believe marines took out 3 hives and aliens lost any control over the map along with higher lifeforms.
We had actually pushed back from 1 hive twice before we conceded it was done....its not like this was some whim of a decision.
The alien team was out of not only res, upgrades and higher lifeforms....but desire to keep flogging the clearly dead horse that was underneath us.
As I said I joined mid-late game and onto an alien team that was lower by about 3, given the khamm disco'd or raged it seems some of the alien team did this also.
I know there was global talk about the khamm issues on aliens...but hey the entire 15 minutes I was in gameplay I was getting flogged by a dominant marine team with JP's exo's and arcs.
Crazyeddie...yeah sorry being aussie I main references in cricket and AFL are both very subdued in the nature of celebration (compared to american footy or soccer).
In both the examples your giving of it being acceptable the losing players dont have to participate....playing a dead game the losing side does.
Some members of this community really need to get over this "proper win" thing. It's good manners in most RTS games to gg when the games over rather than waiting for the enemy to finish grinding the base. It is still a proper win! If you watch the NS2 competitive games you see this a lot, one team will call gg so they can move on to the next round and have another shot. There is nothing wrong with this! The games are most fun when you don't know who's going to win. The last 5 or 10 minutes of the game just ends up being target practice at best and repeated spawn death at worst. Why do you expect people to play through that every time?!
Complaints that people are conceding too early might be valid. I've seen a few games where the team are shocked the other team conceded. As people get better at the game this will probably reduce. It isn't a reason to remove concede (or add any arbitrary limits like "you must have 1 tech point to concede").
Except that finishing off that hive or marine base that was untouchable for the whole duration of the game is actually fun. "Oh, we won." -isn't nearly as fun as "KILL THE CC <BOOM!> YAY WE WIN!" ...I'm still in favor of concede but I just wish we could make it some sort of "aliens get superbuffed to finish marines off for 1 minute" -kinda thing.
"Concede"... Srsly what's wrong with "Surrender"...
It's fun for the winners, for the losers not so much. Before concede I had a few fun end games (mostly as marines rather than aliens), but most of them were just 10 minutes of trying to shoot an onos as it ran in and out, yay target practice.
However given the wide variety of thoughts on this I wouldn't object to them allowing admins to configure concede on their server. Something as simple as:
- Concede on/off
- % need to concede
- Time left to play after concede
- Disable spawning after concede on/off
The last two would give a middle ground between no concede and instant concede, allowing the winners to try and overrun the last base while the losers know they won't have to wait around long for it to finish. (This would allow the marines to charge into a hive without having to worry about a counter attack on their base because either way they've won (even if all the CCs get destroyed first), likewise for the aliens).
Servers without concede would either go back to the old method of "screw this guys lets F4/afk/recycle" or if a good community spirit lead to these bitter fights to the end everyone wants.
However given the wide variety of thoughts on this I wouldn't object to them allowing admins to configure concede on their server. Something as simple as:
- Concede on/off
- % need to concede
- Time left to play after concede
- Disable spawning after concede on/off
1) No, unless clearly stated on the server list that the server has set it down
2) No
3) No, what for ? They conceded, they don't want to play anymore !
4) Hell no !!! They don't wan't to play anymore and you force them spectate !!!!
However given the wide variety of thoughts on this I wouldn't object to them allowing admins to configure concede on their server. Something as simple as:
- Concede on/off
- % need to concede
- Time left to play after concede
- Disable spawning after concede on/off
1) No, unless clearly stated on the server list that the server has set it down
2) No
3) No, what for ? They conceded, they don't want to play anymore !
4) Hell no !!! They don't wan't to play anymore and you force them spectate !!!!
To be clear, if this was my server I'd set it up as, concede on, 50% to concede, game ends instantly. That is, exactly how it is at the moment. I only propose this so that those who keep going on about how concede is ruining the game can play the game how they see fit on their server. If they set those configs in such a way that players don't like it then players won't play on that server. These hardcore masochistics who think a games only proper if you fight to the end can happily play on their 'concede off' servers.
I don't think you should be able to mess with the settings. Concede is useful.
I'd much rather have it and not need it than come to a server where everything is upside-down because the admin is a sado-masochistic control freak who sets up a noob server to bolster his fragile ego by stacking against greens, putting two big death camps right at their spawn's exits and expecting them to like being killed until he has reached his 40:0 goal and/or taken a scoreboard screenshot.
That's the recipe for a snorefest. No matter on which side you are.
Comments
At least this will mean she is not a selfish b*.
How so? Can't speak for anyone else but I don't concede unless I know beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Some members of this community really need to get over this "proper win" thing. It's good manners in most RTS games to gg when the games over rather than waiting for the enemy to finish grinding the base. It is still a proper win! If you watch the NS2 competitive games you see this a lot, one team will call gg so they can move on to the next round and have another shot. There is nothing wrong with this! The games are most fun when you don't know who's going to win. The last 5 or 10 minutes of the game just ends up being target practice at best and repeated spawn death at worst. Why do you expect people to play through that every time?!
Complaints that people are conceding too early might be valid. I've seen a few games where the team are shocked the other team conceded. As people get better at the game this will probably reduce. It isn't a reason to remove concede (or add any arbitrary limits like "you must have 1 tech point to concede").
The judo analogy wasn't meant for that, it was to come up with something marginally less out of place than sex.
Concede needs a bit of work, but it's far FAR better than F4 and recycling (which I consider trolling unless it's done with prior consultation with the team... this is sometimes needed before the 5 minute mark, for example we had one game where for some reason no-one could build anything when they tried comming...)
I'd like to see the %age required for concede upped a bit (>50% preferably), but apart from that, I think it's fine as it is.
Roo
I agree.
In some cases, people can concede too early, yes. Is this common, not really. What was very common though, were games that went on for another frustrating 15-20 minutes, or even longer, when it's already painfully obvious a loss is the only outcome possible. These tended to end in f4 or recyclings anyway. A vote is just more civil.
Except that finishing off that hive or marine base that was untouchable for the whole duration of the game is actually fun. "Oh, we won." -isn't nearly as fun as "KILL THE CC <BOOM!> YAY WE WIN!" ...I'm still in favor of concede but I just wish we could make it some sort of "aliens get superbuffed to finish marines off for 1 minute" -kinda thing.
"Concede"... Srsly what's wrong with "Surrender"...
Why should people stick around as target dummies so other people can stroke their epeens killing them over and over again before eventually getting around to finishing the game?
However, the bottom line is that concede isn't the problem and it has never been the problem. The real issue is that there comes a point in the game when a team can no longer win the game, but the game isn't over. There is so little forgiveness in this game, that once you lose -insert some objective- that it really isn't possible to stage a comeback. No one wants to play a game they have no chance to win.
No one.
So one of three things will happen. Either they will concede, or if you make it so they can't concede, then people will either F4/disconnect, or recycle if they are marines. None of those 'wins' are any better than concede.
You are not everyone. The concede option is abused by players of many, but not all types. Good players generally aren't conceding more than 2 out of 5 games I notice, and I'm being generous as to not bring down hellfire on me, haha.
On the other hand, I have never seen a Marine team toy with Aliens and just do their business they kill the hive as quickly as they can... At least on the servers I play on.
This is just not the way this game was meant to be played, finish it out, die like men if you need to. Many times I have seen games go to concide and it was still in question who will really win.
Not every time you play you will win, losing is part of the game so tough it out.
Many times I have seen some of the best NS2 players on a server playing and if things look like they are going to be on the losing end they quit, leave the server. I guess they dont want to hurt their KDR or they just dont want to man up and do the best they can and help a losing team maybe pull one out and win.
Concide is for wimps, sack up and deal with it.
I was just responding to Emoo explaining a "proper win". I said I'm in favor of concede, as poor an implementation it is right now.
NS2 is not starcraft, its not a 1on1 game.....yes games can go long IF one team is bad enough to let a turtle last that long.
That and as others have said how will anyone ever know how to take the last base thats well defended if everyone starts giving up earlier and earlier. People are posting about games being over after losing your first 3 rts, and a 90% win rate after that and thats just BS when ive seen first hand wins from 1 base and 1 rt against the whole map being taken over on both alien and marine(More on marine but it has happend on alien) those are the games where its 90% chance.
And again quit comparing it to starcraft if you wana give up so easy, go ahead im just not for it, I like taking the last base and fighting for my last base.
But i do understand not everone likes that and if they wana concede fine but IMO it will be a sad day when NS2 games end halfway though because the odds are stacked against ya, I can see a losing game coming as easy as the next guy doesnt im giving up on my team mid battle or in the last stand.
At this point the morale starts to waver. But a voice on the channel says but we still have an Exo and jetpacks, and I suggested an immediate all out strike on the Subsector hive, which we took as well as Nano.
Then the aliens conceded before the ARC train got to Cargo. Simultaneously so satisfying and unsatisfying.
But at one point people were, including me, thinking about giving up.
So there's a morale metagame to commanding now, which I guess is cool. I wish players weren't so weak though. My grandma could chase down twice as many Onos with that hatchet.
TLDR: I suggest making Concede a two way protocol. Team A voted to concede. Team B: Do you accept?
Never said I was, but hopefully you see the problem you're getting into when you make broad statements like that and assume the actions of some are relevant to others.
The whole point of concede was to address the fact if marines (or aliens) get ahead and aliens are stuck on 1 hive past the 10-15 min mark while marines (or aliens) drag it out, getting every upgrade, all proto, sentries in each tech node, they could finish the game. The above scenario has been documented on the forums about 100 times and even acknowledged by the devs, the marines have no incentive to rush the game and potentially get back doored and lose a certain win (th-thanks power nodes you're the best mechanic), they're rewarded by turtling at this point. Since it was implemented with a 5 min timer tells me someone at UWE wants to watch the world burn, I can only imagine it was deliberately set that way to achieve the malicious results it's getting by ending games at ridiculous times because people can't be arsed to make a play or play the game out.
The amount of times I've seen 2 base marines concede is staggering, the amount of times I've seen 3 hive aliens drop down to 2 hive aliens concede is staggering, 9/10 comms don't have the sack to press the recycle button even for legitimate reasons like losing a base let alone recycling IPs out from under people, I've seen about 3 bases recycled in the last month and 2 would have been me doing it.
All this manner esports bullshit from SC2 can fuck off, they're playing ladder/tourney matches that are recorded and graded against other players and assigned into leagues to ensure you're playing against even people, people in scrims/wars are interested in winning and only winning, they hit the point of no return in such small 6v6 environments they know they have a snowballs chance in hell to pull off a rush vs anyone with a pulse in the comm chair/hive, we're talking about 8v8+ public sized games, no stats are recorded, no ELO, no ladder, no need to concede instantly when you lose a second or third hive or don't like being on 3-4 RTs by 5 mins and decide to re make the game.
That's an uncharitable interpretation of the "let us finish the game properly" viewpoint.
Smashing the last hive or chair is the equivalent of a victory lap or an end-zone dance. For most people (not all) it's a great deal of fun, perhaps even an essential part of the gameplay experience, despite the fact that there's no longer any "game" at that point (i.e. there's no contest, no meaningful opposition, no challenge, and no skill). Even the losers can get something out of it... a kind of catharsis, a sense of finality and closure to that particular game which then serves as a natural transition to the next game... it can even be an opportunity for camaraderie both with your fellow losing teammates AND your winning opponents.
Even if you're the type who can find no fun whatsoever in seeing your opponents enjoy their victory, surely you can see that many people do want to relish their win a bit, and perhaps you could indulge them... as they will then indulge you in yours, some other time.
Mind you - nobody wants the winner to take TWO victory laps, or dance in the endzone during the whole commercial break. That's why I suggested that conceding should give the winners a brief period in which to "finish the game properly" if in fact they can. Thirty, sixty, maybe ninety seconds, tops.
I think something like that would satisfy many of the people on both (all three? four?) sides of this discussion.
I normally oppose savant on principle...but seeing as you seem to believe we are teh same person...yes its all a big conspiracy.
Concede votes only flaw is that neither team is informed of a vote in progress.
Remove concede we simply head back to f4 (for aliens) or recycle & f4 for marines.
People can still concede and keep playing...this is not the case with f4.
F4 impacts the winning team negatively as they have to sit in a holding pattern.
I saw you today moaning in a server today in a 50+ min game that ended via concede.
When the alien team eventually conceded having lost 3 hives in 10 minutes and where down to 1 hive.
You had a 4:1 K:D ratio but still felt like you have been robbed and that aliens somehow should have been continuing to play.
Sorry but that game was over...had been from the time I joined, but the aliens stuck it out for a lot longer than was warranted.
Just because you thought it should still be going you had no idea about alien teams hive numbers, upgrades or P-res.
Those on the losing side conceded after a 50 minute game....woe is you.
You want to play every game completely....then make some bots.
People simply wont sit there to be your whipping boy.
Oh and crazyeddie...Victory dances are poor sportsmanship...its all about show boating or e-wangs.
ROBBED.
Agree on visibility of votes and it should be timed, X has started vote to concede/changemap/votekick whatever, otherwise people AFK in base while whining in team chat instead of playing the game and make everyone else want to stop playing.
That's utterly dependent on the particular sport in question and the social conventions adopted by the community that plays that particular sport.
There's absolutely nothing unsportsmanlike about victory laps in auto racing or end-zone displays in U.S. football. But such a display would be unseemly in, say, a chess match.
Well I was not around for first 40 min of the game....can only speak for last 10-15 I was involved in.
The khamm had left and another player was partially comming by the time I joined (the lower player number team) and that was at the 40 min mark...the team kept playing for atelast another 10-15 min.
In which time I believe marines took out 3 hives and aliens lost any control over the map along with higher lifeforms.
We had actually pushed back from 1 hive twice before we conceded it was done....its not like this was some whim of a decision.
The alien team was out of not only res, upgrades and higher lifeforms....but desire to keep flogging the clearly dead horse that was underneath us.
As I said I joined mid-late game and onto an alien team that was lower by about 3, given the khamm disco'd or raged it seems some of the alien team did this also.
I know there was global talk about the khamm issues on aliens...but hey the entire 15 minutes I was in gameplay I was getting flogged by a dominant marine team with JP's exo's and arcs.
Crazyeddie...yeah sorry being aussie I main references in cricket and AFL are both very subdued in the nature of celebration (compared to american footy or soccer).
In both the examples your giving of it being acceptable the losing players dont have to participate....playing a dead game the losing side does.
It's fun for the winners, for the losers not so much. Before concede I had a few fun end games (mostly as marines rather than aliens), but most of them were just 10 minutes of trying to shoot an onos as it ran in and out, yay target practice.
However given the wide variety of thoughts on this I wouldn't object to them allowing admins to configure concede on their server. Something as simple as:
- Concede on/off
- % need to concede
- Time left to play after concede
- Disable spawning after concede on/off
The last two would give a middle ground between no concede and instant concede, allowing the winners to try and overrun the last base while the losers know they won't have to wait around long for it to finish. (This would allow the marines to charge into a hive without having to worry about a counter attack on their base because either way they've won (even if all the CCs get destroyed first), likewise for the aliens).
Servers without concede would either go back to the old method of "screw this guys lets F4/afk/recycle" or if a good community spirit lead to these bitter fights to the end everyone wants.
1) No, unless clearly stated on the server list that the server has set it down
2) No
3) No, what for ? They conceded, they don't want to play anymore !
4) Hell no !!! They don't wan't to play anymore and you force them spectate !!!!
Yeh everyone was a massive overstatement. If you'd read my other posts you would of seen that I don't even want these to the end fights.
To be clear, if this was my server I'd set it up as, concede on, 50% to concede, game ends instantly. That is, exactly how it is at the moment. I only propose this so that those who keep going on about how concede is ruining the game can play the game how they see fit on their server. If they set those configs in such a way that players don't like it then players won't play on that server. These hardcore masochistics who think a games only proper if you fight to the end can happily play on their 'concede off' servers.
I'd much rather have it and not need it than come to a server where everything is upside-down because the admin is a sado-masochistic control freak who sets up a noob server to bolster his fragile ego by stacking against greens, putting two big death camps right at their spawn's exits and expecting them to like being killed until he has reached his 40:0 goal and/or taken a scoreboard screenshot.
That's the recipe for a snorefest. No matter on which side you are.