<!--QuoteBegin--Brutus+Nov 21 2002, 11:36 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Brutus @ Nov 21 2002, 11:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This is funny. A lot of people complain about the maturity level of CS/NS community and in fact they are at the same level. As for 'old school' CS players not liking the current versions, please speak for yourself. I have enjoyed the changes, because it made it a little different each time.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Agreed. In many cases the changes made were to remove aspects of DM from the game and get people to actually teamwork. The slowdown after a jump to prevent the DM habit of jumping everywhere. The removal of the various running/jumping speedups. Those were all about personal 1:1 "i pwned j00' and nothing about getting the objective done.
I don't have a problem with CS players. I have a problem with the people who think they are CS players but are nothing more than DMers who get lucky every now and again. Unfortunately that is a large majority of what constitutes the CS community so the rare gems of CS players that play the team game and not the DM game unfortunately get lumped in with the crud.
Of course I do also have issues with CS. All of them, though, have nothing to do with "Oh, I wish it was like it was back in....." Nope. I just think they haven't done enough to get more teamplay into the game and there are plenty of examples in DoD, NS and other games that would be awesome in CS.
I just think cs went downhill when they added the head shot icon. It just gives DMers a chance to brag about their '1337' skills or something **obscenity** to that affect.
Here's why i hate CS (i bet you were DYING to know <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->): <b>*note: I liked CS up to beta 7</b> <ul> <li>With every beta after 5 the dammage of guns decreased. This lead to firefights in which you could use superior tactics, get the drop on someone and STILL loose. IMHO a game that is defined as a "tactical teamplay" game, tactics should earn you more points than reflexes. <li><b>With every beta after 5 the dammage of guns became more random. For example, insted of the M4 doing 20-30 dammage per shot, it would start doing 15-40. So now i could kill somebody in 3 shots if i was lucky, but it might take upwards of 7 shots if chance is against me.</b> <li> After beta 5 the community turned from a tightly nit group of veteran gamers to maybe 60% vets and 40% newbies around B7. Ok, i can live with that, but what i can't live with is the newbies being TOTAL jackasses who disrespect evreyone. Before beta 6 MOST of the community was respectful. They were there for one purpose, to enjoy playing a game in the compony of others. After beta 7 the community was split and much of it found ruining other people games fun (insults/baby admins/insert immature behavior here). <li><b>With every beta after 5 the accuracy became more and more erratic to the point that you could not control the weapon. It's like the bullets pull a U-turn the instant they leave the barrel, how in the HELL can my shot go 3 feet to the LEFT of where i'm aiming? I can understand if maybe my gunsight moved to the left because of the kick, but it DOESN'T!! There's no way to compensate for this inacuracy, it's built in. Whereas in DoD if i see my crosshairs pulling off to the left, i can compensate, and the bullets go WHERE I SHOOT.</b> <li>Lets not forget the cheats and exploits. </ul>
Please note the boldface entries. These more than anything else turned me off of CS. Before beta 7 i was good at CS, i could make top 3 of any server 70% of the time (maybe more) and i was 56k! After beta 7 (and part of beta 6) i found i was getting beaten more and more and having a much harder time in the game. Now wait, as you play a game more arn't you suposed to get better at it? Then you have to also take into account the number of newbies entering the game. The skill of CSers wasn't improving, so why was my skill going down? The answer is that the game was becoming so random that even newbies were scoring off me. So many time's i'd SWEAR that i punched a full clip right into somebody at point blank range, they'd turn around UNHURT and kill me with 2 shots.
Episodes like this had me banging my fist on my desk. I got SO frustrated playing CS after B7 that i just decided to quit. CS is the only game that ever got me so frustrated i hurt my wrist by pounding my desk.
I'm sure your dying to write me off as somebody who simply lost a few times and is whining about it. But i stuck with the game for a good MONTH of daily play after my score started randomizing. Sometimes i'd be able to own a whole server, and i'm like "oh maybe it's just in my imagination" but then the very next game i'd wind up on the bottom, a guy with 350 ping beats me or something. After a month of this randomness i gave up.
And that my friends, is the story of a former CS vet who's played from B4 to B7, many good times, till the mod was fixed so it would apeal to low skill players. And that's why it's so popular. People like CS because no matter your skill you can still win sometimes. Random chance says that sometimes even if the enemy catches you from behind, your slow to react, and you can't aim, you might still win the day. <<--- This my friends, should never happen in a distinguished game of skill.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why is CS a derogatory term here?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Its not just a derogaory term here. Its a derogatory term everywhere. Well....at least everywhere in the gaming world that is.
let me tell you a little story. awhile back there were these guys called the puritans. they deprived themselves of all pleasure(no sex, no drugs, no rock and roll) and bashed everyone else who happened to be having a good time trippin out to the latest zepplin album. because they were in the minority they felt they were right but their holier than thou antics got on everyones nerves. then there was some guy who discovers this big rock(it was a nice rock btw, it looked pretty and had lots of cool stuff on it) far away so the purtians all decided to go there. at first they were like "oh its so not fair these weird lookin dudes can plant stuff and farm and hunt and were here eating moss." well they learned to work as a team and started to get stuff done. oh they had such a great time not having sex with their wives and beating themselves with sticks to cleanse their sins. they felt so special being seperated from those "heathens." so when more sinners actually started coming over they were like "no way dudes we were here since the begining and we decide whats cool" even though those weird dudes i was talkin about earlier were here way before the puritans and should have kicked their shoes-with-buckles wearin **obscenity** but they were so nice. soon enough the puritans controlled alot of stuff and forced their views on others. and so kiddies thats the story of the republican party, err... cs haters i mean.
heh this kinda reminds me of the classic sega/snes wars of my middle school days. those people are now carrying on the cs/my obscure mod debate today. and they are also beating themselves with sticks.
edit: my obscure mods kicks all yalls **obscenity**. it gots muskets and cannons. this is the old school im talkin bout here. anyway check out the battlegrounds, the revolutionary war mod at bgmod.com sure the graphics look like theyre from 1776 but its suprisingly alot of fun. the first game i ever joined a clan for so i could get a decent line battle goin(no wait dont shoot until i say so,NO STOP SHOOTING, GET BACK IN LINE!!!)
Ironically, I think a LOT of the players I've seen in NS could use some time on CS.
I see marines all the time who cannot aim worth jack **obscenity**, who constantly get in each other's line of fire, and who SIT IN BASE WAITING FOR A GUN. Get those idiots to play CS, or **obscenity**, any FPS worth a damn, and perhaps they'd improve to the point where they stay alive for more than 10 seconds.
<!--QuoteBegin--GenmaC+Nov 21 2002, 08:40 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (GenmaC @ Nov 21 2002, 08:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ironically, I think a LOT of the players I've seen in NS could use some time on CS.
I see marines all the time who cannot aim worth jack **obscenity**,<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> i think that means they've spent TOO MUCH time in CS, it kills your aiming ability.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->okay.. u sux0r.. im sorri...
Bunny HOPPING is wifout pressing the forward key.. which is what u called STRAFE JUMPING n00b... i know.. cuz i "knew" how to Bhop.. i forgot already.. and my friends knew troo... from CS... so yeah...
ur Bhopp... is jus.. "spamming jump"
n00b
im sorri.. is jus seein u yell at those smarter than u is jus annoying <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i **obscenity** hate it when people type like that...is it SOOOO hard to spell sorry right? or is that "i" at the end SOOOOOO cool...and wtf does sux0r really mean anyway? man i cant stand that, really...ok had to get that out.
Its like comparing a wheelchair to a voicebox, they're both fun, in different ways, but there's really no need to make fun of either. I think some NS players were embittered by CS since it is hard to find a good public server and maybe they got made fun of, or their mom didn't raise them with enough love. Regardless, just ignore the snerts, and have fun, that's the point of games I thought.
THe problem is cheating, its really given CS a bad reputation. Because of the cheating, people quit playing it, and gone to other mods. When they go, they take stories of lameness, n3wbs, and cheating with them. These stories get passed along, and build a bad reputation. Therefore people that play CS get a bad rep also.
Maybe so Katsuro, but I know there's some good servers out there with admins that run a fair ship. Its just that only 2% of the 27,839 servers (i think) out there have this feature enabled. Besides, most fun loving, non-cheating CS players wouldn't even be bothered by insults of CS, but more curious why NS players are calling CS players bad names? It's always the minority that ruin a game for you, least I think it's the minority, especially what I've seen from most of the good NS servers/players I've seen.
i started cs back in beta 5 , it was new, it was cool. it was fun. MY bullets hit where i am aiming , i could JUMP . there were no cheats, u could actually run fast , not like now, now they gimped the jump, they gimped the walking speeds, they gimped the accuracy , well they pretty much gimped everything .
Now i play , i see all kinds of ppl just getting spray and pray head shots, and not to mention the amount of fy maps ... those r just lame, lets just play in a box !!! w00t i am so 1337, look at my skills ! Sorry but no, thats not fun , buy , kill, , buy, kill , buy , kill .
Yeah , and the admins who ban everyone who looks at them sideways was anoying too.
cheaters didnt really bug me, i found i ddidnt see that many cheaters , and if i did it was pretty damn obvious they were cheating.
Sorry, but i like my bullets to hit were i shoot. Maybes its because i started playing fps's before "recoil" was made. Well, there was only 1 gun with recoil in quake 2 , the machine gun ;p but only in single player , and the mods rocked for q2 .
so yeha there smy rant, cs doesnt really suck , it just got boring for me , it is just a load of bs with all the randomness , thats prolyl my biggest issue with it. and the admins suck to .
In the multiplayer gaming community there has never been a mod as big as CS.
it also goes without saying that there has never been as many jilted/jaded players from one mod before <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I am one of them. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
I have nothing better to do and I personally love the debate we got going here, so I am gonna cover every thing I have seen so far that I think desirves a mention. This will be long, very long!
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think that much of it is the fact that CS is supposed to be a team-based game that is widely played as a deathmatch game, the sort of thing that while probably not good for CS, would be an utter travesty to NS. Myself, I don't play on public CS servers anymore because of people yelling that any good player must be cheating, or not being able to get anyone else to follow the objective. I can see where that breeds a lot of distaste. Some of it is reasonable, some of it isn't. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> well said bitnine
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Anyways, some people dislike cs retailers because CS is such an easy game. (randomness is your friend in cs) Then they try other games and whine and complain. The maturity level of the majority of the cs community is extremely low. Read the official CS forums some time. IF you can. it's packed with flamers, lamers, and general computer morons. Who wouldn't know how to turn on their computer, but play cs.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
- well I am sorry that I did not get into computer games until I tried Starcraft and then a week later discovered CS... I am no computer genuis, but I know enough. When I started I didnt know anything about whats inside one though. Oh yeah and the weapons, controls, logic, and other players in the game are just so newb friendly.. This is almost as annoying as the "rap sux" / "rock sux" fight or how about the "_____ sold out!" one.. I'm a big music fan
I love counter-strike and actually just started playing about 7 months ago.. I'm pretty good now. How can anyway say this game takes no skill? do you play on servers named "noobs only"? I will admit many players are very annoying,childish, or just plain rude. Every new player is caled a "n00b" at least 1000 times. Dont diss him, teach him. Lets no mention how many hackors are present
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The problem with people bad mouthing cs and cs players here is because a lot of them jump into the game, go rambo....get killed...then whine. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
also true..
I think people are just tired of CS.., it's been around so long now and this new game is out so they say it is a lot better..., I am sure after a year or so they may think both are equal.
CS players are afraid to die and not used to staying in squads. The only safe way to go solo is as an alien and aliens are hard to be, therefor these players tend to whine and dislike the game.. (not all, but some) and people will diss CS because of this. People want a good kill-death ratio and thats what matters most to them. I am sure peopel are fed up with overwhelming servers with enwer players who are not nearly as good as them(not newbs, but not as much experience), hackors, admins who are unfair and team stackers. , lets not go into whining, stat **obscenity**, teamplay and spawnkills. It can very much be a team game.
Beside's not many people besides the makers of CS claim it is very team dependant.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The only reason NS currently has less of a Moron Ratio than most other games is because it's too new and too complicated for the morons to flock to. And judging by some of the anti-CS sentiments in these forums, the moron ratio is quickly headed toward average. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> LMAO
F4sTF0rw4rD > you have just opened yourself up to being severely bashed.. implying that the only game people play besides NS is CS and that you are a stat **obscenity**.
Maybe counter-strike was better before I started, but now there are so many servers, so many people and so many maps.. that it isnt hard at all to find a good game and players equal to you. Thats why I love CS.
My only beef with counter-strike is rude players. I said it above and Ill repeat it: Hackors, Teamkillers, Spawnkillers, Newb bashers,unsportly players, team stackers and stat **obscenity**.
maybe it's because I'm new to online gaming, but I dont find CS to be simple what so ever. In fact I think it is much harder than quake, unreal, or almost any RTS game.... NS is hard because it is a hybrid and new, but I think I've caught on to NS much faster than I did with CS. Possibly due to experience in CS?
Many tactics will not work as well in NS liekt hey do in CS, but hiding in a corner can work, using your ears to hear enemies works, strength in numbers works, knowing the engine works.
Eltism is the word here. Everyone likes to feel "l33t".
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You can buy it in a nice box.
Which means it tends to have more impulse buying than the people who know about mods. I know some friends who have trouble with the idea that CS is Half Life, but Half Life isn't CS, and that CS isn't independent of HL... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> also true, but many players understand it fine.. I myself got the platnium pack because I did not want to download on 56k(dumb move seeing as its also imposible to play on 56k!!) and I understand how mods work just fine.
I think that once people become good at NS it will not be as hard as counter-strike.. While Counter-Strike has constant problems that will only go away after lots of practice NS has problems you will get by using trial and error. point in case : recoil - not in NS, in cs. It takes skill to become good at every gun in CS.. and in NS it does take skill for everything, but the weapons are much easier to use, there is no guns that you need to crouch or walk with to shoot from far, there is no recoil and there is a fair chance that a new player can defeat a novice player.
I have not played many mods besides counter-strike and half-life... , but thats because my computer is old and I have so little HD space.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->insted of the M4 doing 20-30 dammage per shot, it would start doing 15-40. So now i could kill somebody in 3 shots if i was lucky, but it might take upwards of 7 shots if chance is against me<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
-15-40 damage depending on where you hit and how accurate you are, it's not random.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->With every beta after 5 the accuracy became more and more erratic to the point that you could not control the weapon. It's like the bullets pull a U-turn the instant they leave the barrel, how in the HELL can my shot go 3 feet to the LEFT of where i'm aiming? I can understand if maybe my gunsight moved to the left because of the kick, but it DOESN'T!! There's no way to compensate for this inacuracy, it's built in. Whereas in DoD if i see my crosshairs pulling off to the left, i can compensate, and the bullets go WHERE I SHOOT. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hahahha, they decided that the game should be more realistic to increase the gameplay and skill involved. It's called recoil. And if you get recoil and mean bullets going someplace you didnt aim then I dont know, because they always go where I want if I aim right.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Before beta 7 i was good at CS, i could make top 3 of any server 70% of the time (maybe more) and i was 56k! After beta 7 (and part of beta 6) i found i was getting beaten more and more and having a much harder time in the game. Now wait, as you play a game more arn't you suposed to get better at it? Then you have to also take into account the number of newbies entering the game. The skill of CSers wasn't improving, so why was my skill going down?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
simple, you didnt pay attention to what the new patches did to the game. You just tried to ignore it and be good
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm sure your dying to write me off as somebody who simply lost a few times and is whining about it. But i stuck with the game for a good MONTH of daily play after my score started randomizing.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I understand man, It's just you didnt realize how hard the game became.. It takes the average player at least 2 months to become good. maybe 3. and with 56k it's a major bottleneck.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And that my friends, is the story of a former CS vet who's played from B4 to B7, many good times, till the mod was fixed so it would apeal to low skill players. And that's why it's so popular. People like CS because no matter your skill you can still win sometimes. Random chance says that sometimes even if the enemy catches you from behind, your slow to react, and you can't aim, you might still win the day. <<--- This my friends, should never happen in a distinguished game of skill. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You just said all this stuff about how unskilled you became at counter-strike and how it being so hard was what made you hate it and now you are saying it takes no skill? and sayings its random??? it isn't... There is actual stats for what damage every gun does to each part of the body... Start getting some headshots and chest shots you'll be good.. I suggest taking the game up again and giving it a shot.. It may take awhile, but you will improve and maybe change your mind. I'd hate to tell this to a person who calls themselves a vet, but your arguments are very like Newbie arguments, they really are just ignorant. You may be a vet at the original, but you are probabaly still a newb to the current one... Did you ever try playing the mod "counter-strike classic"?
- I can see how you dont like CS for these reasons, but that doesnt make it a bad game. You just dont like it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->but they were so nice. soon enough the puritans controlled alot of stuff and forced their views on others. and so kiddies thats the story of the republican party, err... cs haters i mean. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> - HAHAHHAA IM IN LOVE! I hate people like this.. these are how people are everywhere: music fans, smart people,colonists, gamers, ect ect.. I should add to the story that the leaders of this new land decided a few changes where needed and once this was done many people were angry and betrayed their land.
too many qoutes!!! uhhh
-dude who said that playing cs decreases your aiming ablity, you are ignorant.
I'd like to thank everyone with valid arguments and good reasons. If you dont like CS because its too hard or there are too many jackoff players then ok, but dont diss everyone who plays it.
-I hate the community of CS players that always talk about how "aiming with double zoom is wrong" and how "the AK is the best gun in the game" blah blah blah.. I think all guns of equal price are equal... and sometimes price doesnt even matter. I really hate when people wont shut up about this- espicially my friends.. thinking they're smarter than everyone. Yet when I play them at CS they are all talk and no walk.
I hate all nerds like that, I used to play magic, but god if I hear one more guy in a Blind Guardian shirt talking about how "hot" sailor moon is or how the "giant guardian worm" will always defeat the "laundry gnome" I would have gone crazy... Annoying people tend to throw me away from things... I hate people who think they're special and elite. Die you elitist'! So what if you are really good at one thing, you probabaly suck at many others. so what if you see many reasons to hate mainstream rock and think that power metal is better, that doesnt mean you are right or gifted. (see gamefaqs.compunk and metal message board.
you sure spent a long time writing that didnt ya <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
And I thought Rock had long posts, I think reading that one gave me googly eyes. Good uh.. research zoda. Wow. <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
I played CS from beta 1 to version 1.1. Around beta 7 i was invited to join a clan, and did so for a period of about 5 months, until it fell apart. During that time, we moved up to about #40 on the OGL, had a lot of good matches, and I generally enjoyed the game in it's "ideal" form.
The clan fell apart due to three members losing computer access for one reason or another almost simultaneously, and i went back to just playing pubs.
Four days after, I was booted off a server for rescuing the hostages. Not doing anything lame... just having rescued the hostages. Apparently the admin who was playing T at the time disapproved of completing the objectives over shooting at people.
A week after, I was banned from a server for holing up with a pump shotgun and gunning down CTs as they entered the garage to grab the hostages. It's apparently "lame" to engage someone from behind.
Nine days after, and in the final straw for me in terms of the CS community at large, I found myself banned from FOUR SEPERATE SERVERS after my wonID got reported as a "wallhacker"... despite the fact that my "wallhacking" consisted of standing near a door, listening for the sound of approaching footsteps outside, and then pumping about half a belt of ammunition through it into the hallway beyond, which was all of 4 feet wide (making missing more difficult than hitting, despite the effects of CS recoil).
All the things that had made CS fun for me (the sort of feeling of immersion, and the knowledge that it wasn't just team deathmatch... i actually had a job to do, and could FAIL even if i DID kill all of the other team) left at that point... i watched people bunnying up and down the corridors, watched the connection to reality with the weapons (and the connection to any vague sort of price vs effectiveness balance) vanish... but it was the seeming death of the game's original style being an "appropriate" way to play that really drove me away from it.
Imagine, if you will, a game of NS where wiping out alien hives is considered "lame." So is using the skulk from shadows, or from above doorways. Using sensor sweeps, also. Oh, and btw, the weapons have been tweaked so that although you CAN use anything, the only weapons the commander will ever issue (since it is the most effective by far) is the sniping rifle that gets added in a beta about 3 months from now, which will drop any alien in a single hit, with your main disadvantage being a lack of a crosshair which you rapidly fix by putting some thread on your monitor.
That's my "taste" whenever i try and play CS now. And i'd much rather just enjoy other mods then try and fit my way back into the big one.
.....................
I was shooting the breeze the other day with a guy i know who plays CS. I mentioned NS, and was telling battle stories, and he wanted to know where he could check it out. I said, "it's another HL mod, just download it."
He asked me "What's Half-Life?"
A community that doesn't know it's own roots saddens me. One that can't see beyond it's own walls worries me even more. To those who enjoy CS, i wish you good games and good fun... just don't refuse to try out some of the other stuff out there. You might like it.
People don't hate CS. They just hate the people who play it, the servers who host it, the file mirrors for the downloads, the people who skin and map for it, and the developers who make it.
Basically they hate the community. I can't say I blame them, there's a greater concentration of dumb per cubic inch in CS than any other online game.
Personal opinion from playing CS at a LAN: I had fun for about an hour or two. Then it became dull. *shrug* It's too slow for me. So is NS actually, but NS has alot more "spice" in it than CS has, so it keeps my interest anyway (tho, the constant Fade-victories are quickly detracting from this). I'm mostly a Quake2 player btw. Quake2-Gloom is <b>the</b> game out there.
I recommend the game Soldat for LANs, highly addictive and entertaining, the graphics are cutting edge and amazing, gameplay is simple and easy to learn (not to mention free).
Gloom, I have not heard that in.. at least two years. I agree, it is one of the best.
[Edit]Ahem, back on track. As I've said before, CS players are NS players while playing NS. Just because you play Counter-Strike does not make you a less welcome player on the field in my eyes. Unless of course, you are rude and inconsiderate, but then again there are people out there who don't play CS and are like that. I got tired of CS because of the constant bragging, trash talking and the immature admins on some servers. While I'm sure there <b>are</b> good servers out there and responsible and mature admins, CS is no longer the game for me. Seikeden is right, I've been jilted.
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
Right, if you want NS practise, you should play Action HL. It's as simple as that.
That way, you avoid the whiners, you REALLY learn your accuracy (I regularily play AHL on the Jolt servers, and I send people on the NS ones INSANE straight afterward, because by then I'm hyped up, and can't miss them! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> ) and, it's a great community.
I love both games, but for different reasons (so no guys, this ain't a suck players maneuveur, I play more NS overall than AHL these days, but that's because it's so shiny & new)
Any time there's a player in a NS game who is generally being a **obscenity** and telling ppl 'Dude , you stupid? WTF are you doing?' . This person ,who thinks everyone else is a newb and he totaly rules, I ask if he plays CS and almost everytime they respond with a 'YES I DO. WHY?'. All I can say is 'Figures.'
This is that attitude of the general CS player , I know I used to be in a clan and an admin on a server. The thing was when I did kick ppl for hostage killing or other rather annoying things they did(mind you I said kick not ban) I began to realize no matter how hard I try to run a good, clean CS server there will always be another jack-**obscenity** to take his place. So I gave up CS and quit the clan.
And here I am , not bitter , just wanting those same CS jack-**obscenity** to kill the lame attitude of being a leet player.
Comments
Agreed. In many cases the changes made were to remove aspects of DM from the game and get people to actually teamwork. The slowdown after a jump to prevent the DM habit of jumping everywhere. The removal of the various running/jumping speedups. Those were all about personal 1:1 "i pwned j00' and nothing about getting the objective done.
I don't have a problem with CS players. I have a problem with the people who think they are CS players but are nothing more than DMers who get lucky every now and again. Unfortunately that is a large majority of what constitutes the CS community so the rare gems of CS players that play the team game and not the DM game unfortunately get lumped in with the crud.
Of course I do also have issues with CS. All of them, though, have nothing to do with "Oh, I wish it was like it was back in....." Nope. I just think they haven't done enough to get more teamplay into the game and there are plenty of examples in DoD, NS and other games that would be awesome in CS.
<b>*note: I liked CS up to beta 7</b>
<ul>
<li>With every beta after 5 the dammage of guns decreased. This lead to firefights in which you could use superior tactics, get the drop on someone and STILL loose. IMHO a game that is defined as a "tactical teamplay" game, tactics should earn you more points than reflexes.
<li><b>With every beta after 5 the dammage of guns became more random. For example, insted of the M4 doing 20-30 dammage per shot, it would start doing 15-40. So now i could kill somebody in 3 shots if i was lucky, but it might take upwards of 7 shots if chance is against me.</b>
<li> After beta 5 the community turned from a tightly nit group of veteran gamers to maybe 60% vets and 40% newbies around B7. Ok, i can live with that, but what i can't live with is the newbies being TOTAL jackasses who disrespect evreyone. Before beta 6 MOST of the community was respectful. They were there for one purpose, to enjoy playing a game in the compony of others. After beta 7 the community was split and much of it found ruining other people games fun (insults/baby admins/insert immature behavior here).
<li><b>With every beta after 5 the accuracy became more and more erratic to the point that you could not control the weapon. It's like the bullets pull a U-turn the instant they leave the barrel, how in the HELL can my shot go 3 feet to the LEFT of where i'm aiming? I can understand if maybe my gunsight moved to the left because of the kick, but it DOESN'T!! There's no way to compensate for this inacuracy, it's built in. Whereas in DoD if i see my crosshairs pulling off to the left, i can compensate, and the bullets go WHERE I SHOOT.</b>
<li>Lets not forget the cheats and exploits.
</ul>
Please note the boldface entries. These more than anything else turned me off of CS. Before beta 7 i was good at CS, i could make top 3 of any server 70% of the time (maybe more) and i was 56k! After beta 7 (and part of beta 6) i found i was getting beaten more and more and having a much harder time in the game. Now wait, as you play a game more arn't you suposed to get better at it? Then you have to also take into account the number of newbies entering the game. The skill of CSers wasn't improving, so why was my skill going down? The answer is that the game was becoming so random that even newbies were scoring off me. So many time's i'd SWEAR that i punched a full clip right into somebody at point blank range, they'd turn around UNHURT and kill me with 2 shots.
Episodes like this had me banging my fist on my desk. I got SO frustrated playing CS after B7 that i just decided to quit. CS is the only game that ever got me so frustrated i hurt my wrist by pounding my desk.
I'm sure your dying to write me off as somebody who simply lost a few times and is whining about it. But i stuck with the game for a good MONTH of daily play after my score started randomizing. Sometimes i'd be able to own a whole server, and i'm like "oh maybe it's just in my imagination" but then the very next game i'd wind up on the bottom, a guy with 350 ping beats me or something. After a month of this randomness i gave up.
And that my friends, is the story of a former CS vet who's played from B4 to B7, many good times, till the mod was fixed so it would apeal to low skill players. And that's why it's so popular. People like CS because no matter your skill you can still win sometimes. Random chance says that sometimes even if the enemy catches you from behind, your slow to react, and you can't aim, you might still win the day. <<--- This my friends, should never happen in a distinguished game of skill.
heh this kinda reminds me of the classic sega/snes wars of my middle school days. those people are now carrying on the cs/my obscure mod debate today. and they are also beating themselves with sticks.
edit: my obscure mods kicks all yalls **obscenity**. it gots muskets and cannons. this is the old school im talkin bout here. anyway check out the battlegrounds, the revolutionary war mod at bgmod.com
sure the graphics look like theyre from 1776 but its suprisingly alot of fun. the first game i ever joined a clan for so i could get a decent line battle goin(no wait dont shoot until i say so,NO STOP SHOOTING, GET BACK IN LINE!!!)
I see marines all the time who cannot aim worth jack **obscenity**, who constantly get in each other's line of fire, and who SIT IN BASE WAITING FOR A GUN. Get those idiots to play CS, or **obscenity**, any FPS worth a damn, and perhaps they'd improve to the point where they stay alive for more than 10 seconds.
I see marines all the time who cannot aim worth jack **obscenity**,<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i think that means they've spent TOO MUCH time in CS, it kills your aiming ability.
Bunny HOPPING is wifout pressing the forward key.. which is what u called STRAFE JUMPING n00b... i know.. cuz i "knew" how to Bhop.. i forgot already.. and my friends knew troo... from CS... so yeah...
ur Bhopp... is jus.. "spamming jump"
n00b
im sorri.. is jus seein u yell at those smarter than u is jus annoying <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i **obscenity** hate it when people type like that...is it SOOOO hard to spell sorry right? or is that "i" at the end SOOOOOO cool...and wtf does sux0r really mean anyway? man i cant stand that, really...ok had to get that out.
Now i play , i see all kinds of ppl just getting spray and pray head shots, and not to mention the amount of fy maps ... those r just lame, lets just play in a box !!! w00t i am so 1337, look at my skills ! Sorry but no, thats not fun , buy , kill, , buy, kill , buy , kill .
Yeah , and the admins who ban everyone who looks at them sideways was anoying too.
cheaters didnt really bug me, i found i ddidnt see that many cheaters , and if i did it was pretty damn obvious they were cheating.
Sorry, but i like my bullets to hit were i shoot. Maybes its because i started playing fps's before "recoil" was made. Well, there was only 1 gun with recoil in quake 2 , the machine gun ;p but only in single player , and the mods rocked for q2 .
so yeha there smy rant,
cs doesnt really suck , it just got boring for me , it is just a load of bs with all the randomness , thats prolyl my biggest issue with it. and the admins suck to .
it also goes without saying that there has never been as many jilted/jaded players from one mod before <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I am one of them. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think that much of it is the fact that CS is supposed to be a team-based game that is widely played as a deathmatch game, the sort of thing that while probably not good for CS, would be an utter travesty to NS. Myself, I don't play on public CS servers anymore because of people yelling that any good player must be cheating, or not being able to get anyone else to follow the objective. I can see where that breeds a lot of distaste. Some of it is reasonable, some of it isn't. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
well said bitnine
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Anyways, some people dislike cs retailers because CS is such an easy game. (randomness is your friend in cs) Then they try other games and whine and complain. The maturity level of the majority of the cs community is extremely low. Read the official CS forums some time. IF you can. it's packed with flamers, lamers, and general computer morons. Who wouldn't know how to turn on their computer, but play cs.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
- well I am sorry that I did not get into computer games until I tried Starcraft and then a week later discovered CS... I am no computer genuis, but I know enough. When I started I didnt know anything about whats inside one though. Oh yeah and the weapons, controls, logic, and other players in the game are just so newb friendly.. This is almost as annoying as the "rap sux" / "rock sux" fight or how about the "_____ sold out!" one.. I'm a big music fan
I love counter-strike and actually just started playing about 7 months ago.. I'm pretty good now. How can anyway say this game takes no skill? do you play on servers named "noobs only"? I will admit many players are very annoying,childish, or just plain rude. Every new player is caled a "n00b" at least 1000 times. Dont diss him, teach him. Lets no mention how many hackors are present
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The problem with people bad mouthing cs and cs players here is because a lot of them jump into the game, go rambo....get killed...then whine. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
also true..
I think people are just tired of CS.., it's been around so long now and this new game is out so they say it is a lot better..., I am sure after a year or so they may think both are equal.
CS players are afraid to die and not used to staying in squads. The only safe way to go solo is as an alien and aliens are hard to be, therefor these players tend to whine and dislike the game.. (not all, but some) and people will diss CS because of this. People want a good kill-death ratio and thats what matters most to them. I am sure peopel are fed up with overwhelming servers with enwer players who are not nearly as good as them(not newbs, but not as much experience), hackors, admins who are unfair and team stackers. , lets not go into whining, stat **obscenity**, teamplay and spawnkills. It can very much be a team game.
Beside's not many people besides the makers of CS claim it is very team dependant.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The only reason NS currently has less of a Moron Ratio than most other games is because it's too new and too complicated for the morons to flock to. And judging by some of the anti-CS sentiments in these forums, the moron ratio is quickly headed toward average.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> LMAO
F4sTF0rw4rD > you have just opened yourself up to being severely bashed.. implying that the only game people play besides NS is CS and that you are a stat **obscenity**.
Maybe counter-strike was better before I started, but now there are so many servers, so many people and so many maps.. that it isnt hard at all to find a good game and players equal to you. Thats why I love CS.
My only beef with counter-strike is rude players. I said it above and Ill repeat it: Hackors, Teamkillers, Spawnkillers, Newb bashers,unsportly players, team stackers and stat **obscenity**.
maybe it's because I'm new to online gaming, but I dont find CS to be simple what so ever. In fact I think it is much harder than quake, unreal, or almost any RTS game.... NS is hard because it is a hybrid and new, but I think I've caught on to NS much faster than I did with CS. Possibly due to experience in CS?
Many tactics will not work as well in NS liekt hey do in CS, but hiding in a corner can work, using your ears to hear enemies works, strength in numbers works, knowing the engine works.
Eltism is the word here. Everyone likes to feel "l33t".
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You can buy it in a nice box.
Which means it tends to have more impulse buying than the people who know about mods. I know some friends who have trouble with the idea that CS is Half Life, but Half Life isn't CS, and that CS isn't independent of HL...
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
also true, but many players understand it fine.. I myself got the platnium pack because I did not want to download on 56k(dumb move seeing as its also imposible to play on 56k!!) and I understand how mods work just fine.
I think that once people become good at NS it will not be as hard as counter-strike.. While Counter-Strike has constant problems that will only go away after lots of practice NS has problems you will get by using trial and error. point in case : recoil - not in NS, in cs. It takes skill to become good at every gun in CS.. and in NS it does take skill for everything, but the weapons are much easier to use, there is no guns that you need to crouch or walk with to shoot from far, there is no recoil and there is a fair chance that a new player can defeat a novice player.
I have not played many mods besides counter-strike and half-life... , but thats because my computer is old and I have so little HD space.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->insted of the M4 doing 20-30 dammage per shot, it would start doing 15-40. So now i could kill somebody in 3 shots if i was lucky, but it might take upwards of 7 shots if chance is against me<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
-15-40 damage depending on where you hit and how accurate you are, it's not random.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->With every beta after 5 the accuracy became more and more erratic to the point that you could not control the weapon. It's like the bullets pull a U-turn the instant they leave the barrel, how in the HELL can my shot go 3 feet to the LEFT of where i'm aiming? I can understand if maybe my gunsight moved to the left because of the kick, but it DOESN'T!! There's no way to compensate for this inacuracy, it's built in. Whereas in DoD if i see my crosshairs pulling off to the left, i can compensate, and the bullets go WHERE I SHOOT.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hahahha, they decided that the game should be more realistic to increase the gameplay and skill involved. It's called recoil. And if you get recoil and mean bullets going someplace you didnt aim then I dont know, because they always go where I want if I aim right.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Before beta 7 i was good at CS, i could make top 3 of any server 70% of the time (maybe more) and i was 56k! After beta 7 (and part of beta 6) i found i was getting beaten more and more and having a much harder time in the game. Now wait, as you play a game more arn't you suposed to get better at it? Then you have to also take into account the number of newbies entering the game. The skill of CSers wasn't improving, so why was my skill going down?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
simple, you didnt pay attention to what the new patches did to the game. You just tried to ignore it and be good
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm sure your dying to write me off as somebody who simply lost a few times and is whining about it. But i stuck with the game for a good MONTH of daily play after my score started randomizing.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I understand man, It's just you didnt realize how hard the game became.. It takes the average player at least 2 months to become good. maybe 3. and with 56k it's a major bottleneck.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And that my friends, is the story of a former CS vet who's played from B4 to B7, many good times, till the mod was fixed so it would apeal to low skill players. And that's why it's so popular. People like CS because no matter your skill you can still win sometimes. Random chance says that sometimes even if the enemy catches you from behind, your slow to react, and you can't aim, you might still win the day. <<--- This my friends, should never happen in a distinguished game of skill. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You just said all this stuff about how unskilled you became at counter-strike and how it being so hard was what made you hate it and now you are saying it takes no skill? and sayings its random??? it isn't... There is actual stats for what damage every gun does to each part of the body... Start getting some headshots and chest shots you'll be good.. I suggest taking the game up again and giving it a shot.. It may take awhile, but you will improve and maybe change your mind. I'd hate to tell this to a person who calls themselves a vet, but your arguments are very like Newbie arguments, they really are just ignorant. You may be a vet at the original, but you are probabaly still a newb to the current one... Did you ever try playing the mod "counter-strike classic"?
- I can see how you dont like CS for these reasons, but that doesnt make it a bad game. You just dont like it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->but they were so nice. soon enough the puritans controlled alot of stuff and forced their views on others. and so kiddies thats the story of the republican party, err... cs haters i mean. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> - HAHAHHAA IM IN LOVE! I hate people like this.. these are how people are everywhere: music fans, smart people,colonists, gamers, ect ect.. I should add to the story that the leaders of this new land decided a few changes where needed and once this was done many people were angry and betrayed their land.
too many qoutes!!! uhhh
-dude who said that playing cs decreases your aiming ablity, you are ignorant.
I'd like to thank everyone with valid arguments and good reasons. If you dont like CS because its too hard or there are too many jackoff players then ok, but dont diss everyone who plays it.
-I hate the community of CS players that always talk about how "aiming with double zoom is wrong" and how "the AK is the best gun in the game" blah blah blah.. I think all guns of equal price are equal... and sometimes price doesnt even matter. I really hate when people wont shut up about this- espicially my friends.. thinking they're smarter than everyone. Yet when I play them at CS they are all talk and no walk.
I hate all nerds like that, I used to play magic, but god if I hear one more guy in a Blind Guardian shirt talking about how "hot" sailor moon is or how the "giant guardian worm" will always defeat the "laundry gnome" I would have gone crazy... Annoying people tend to throw me away from things... I hate people who think they're special and elite. Die you elitist'! So what if you are really good at one thing, you probabaly suck at many others. so what if you see many reasons to hate mainstream rock and think that power metal is better, that doesnt mean you are right or gifted. (see gamefaqs.compunk and metal message board.
<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> (chuckle)
The clan fell apart due to three members losing computer access for one reason or another almost simultaneously, and i went back to just playing pubs.
Four days after, I was booted off a server for rescuing the hostages. Not doing anything lame... just having rescued the hostages. Apparently the admin who was playing T at the time disapproved of completing the objectives over shooting at people.
A week after, I was banned from a server for holing up with a pump shotgun and gunning down CTs as they entered the garage to grab the hostages. It's apparently "lame" to engage someone from behind.
Nine days after, and in the final straw for me in terms of the CS community at large, I found myself banned from FOUR SEPERATE SERVERS after my wonID got reported as a "wallhacker"... despite the fact that my "wallhacking" consisted of standing near a door, listening for the sound of approaching footsteps outside, and then pumping about half a belt of ammunition through it into the hallway beyond, which was all of 4 feet wide (making missing more difficult than hitting, despite the effects of CS recoil).
All the things that had made CS fun for me (the sort of feeling of immersion, and the knowledge that it wasn't just team deathmatch... i actually had a job to do, and could FAIL even if i DID kill all of the other team) left at that point... i watched people bunnying up and down the corridors, watched the connection to reality with the weapons (and the connection to any vague sort of price vs effectiveness balance) vanish... but it was the seeming death of the game's original style being an "appropriate" way to play that really drove me away from it.
Imagine, if you will, a game of NS where wiping out alien hives is considered "lame." So is using the skulk from shadows, or from above doorways. Using sensor sweeps, also. Oh, and btw, the weapons have been tweaked so that although you CAN use anything, the only weapons the commander will ever issue (since it is the most effective by far) is the sniping rifle that gets added in a beta about 3 months from now, which will drop any alien in a single hit, with your main disadvantage being a lack of a crosshair which you rapidly fix by putting some thread on your monitor.
That's my "taste" whenever i try and play CS now. And i'd much rather just enjoy other mods then try and fit my way back into the big one.
.....................
I was shooting the breeze the other day with a guy i know who plays CS. I mentioned NS, and was telling battle stories, and he wanted to know where he could check it out. I said, "it's another HL mod, just download it."
He asked me "What's Half-Life?"
A community that doesn't know it's own roots saddens me. One that can't see beyond it's own walls worries me even more. To those who enjoy CS, i wish you good games and good fun... just don't refuse to try out some of the other stuff out there. You might like it.
Basically they hate the community. I can't say I blame them, there's a greater concentration of dumb per cubic inch in CS than any other online game.
Chamooze
Gloom, I have not heard that in.. at least two years. I agree, it is one of the best.
[Edit]Ahem, back on track. As I've said before, CS players are NS players while playing NS. Just because you play Counter-Strike does not make you a less welcome player on the field in my eyes. Unless of course, you are rude and inconsiderate, but then again there are people out there who don't play CS and are like that. I got tired of CS because of the constant bragging, trash talking and the immature admins on some servers. While I'm sure there <b>are</b> good servers out there and responsible and mature admins, CS is no longer the game for me. Seikeden is right, I've been jilted.
That way, you avoid the whiners, you REALLY learn your accuracy (I regularily play AHL on the Jolt servers, and I send people on the NS ones INSANE straight afterward, because by then I'm hyped up, and can't miss them! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> ) and, it's a great community.
I love both games, but for different reasons (so no guys, this ain't a suck players maneuveur, I play more NS overall than AHL these days, but that's because it's so shiny & new)
Any time there's a player in a NS game who is generally being a **obscenity** and telling ppl 'Dude , you stupid? WTF are you doing?' . This person ,who thinks everyone else is a newb and he totaly rules, I ask if he plays CS and almost everytime they respond with a 'YES I DO. WHY?'. All I can say is 'Figures.'
This is that attitude of the general CS player , I know I used to be in a clan and an admin on a server. The thing was when I did kick ppl for hostage killing or other rather annoying things they did(mind you I said kick not ban) I began to realize no matter how hard I try to run a good, clean CS server there will always be another jack-**obscenity** to take his place. So I gave up CS and quit the clan.
And here I am , not bitter , just wanting those same CS jack-**obscenity** to kill the lame attitude of being a leet player.