When dopey comms and risky strategies collide...

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Comments

  • LonewulfzaLonewulfza Join Date: 2013-01-21 Member: 180951Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited February 2013
    |strofix| wrote: »
    sotanaht wrote: »
    |strofix| wrote: »
    sotanaht wrote: »
    As far as what a fade can do behind the lines, consider that no one should be doing anything alone. What a fade can do and what a gorge can do pales in comparison to what a fade AND gorge can do together. Even so, a lone fade on a phasegate is bad news for the marines. How exactly Silence helps with that depends on the situation, but Celerity and Adrenaline help exactly none at all.

    They both get you there faster.

    And I wouldn't really bother with adrenaline. 2 hive adrenaline fade is like 2 hive camo fade, except in that case camo may actually be better, because it can at least maybe do something.

    Nope, neither Celerity nor Adrenaline will get a fade to the front faster. With proper usage of the Shadowstep+jump maneuver you will get to the front exactly as fast without celerity and blink as you would with both of them using blink jumps. Celerity does not affect blink or shadowstep speed, and does not impact your speed using shadowstep jumping, so as a fade you can achieve you're maximum out of combat speed WITHOUT celerity. And of course shadowstep consumes less energy then you regen during its cooldown (during which time you will be maintaining speed through jumping), so adrenaline has no impact here either.

    So you're saying that if we selected a random impartial subject, and asked them to travel from one side of the map to the other, with and without celerity, the celerity time would not be faster?
    Are you willing to let your entire argument ride on that assumption?

    There is something inherently annoying in reading every one of your egotistical posts. Your inability to read, comprehend and understand someone else's point of view is an immeasurable failure and plight on forums that seems more and more common these days. You seem blinded by your own inadequate ability to weigh the opinions of others across from your own.

    And yet, perhaps to my own detriment, I will attempt to school you on the proper use of when something is passive and when something is aggressive.

    A passive action would be an action that has no inherited consequence on victory. Attacking a rez node is not passive and cannot be considered passive. It can be considered the less aggressive(more passive) option when weighed against another option such as the attacking of a group of marines but in itself it cannot be a solely passive act as it aggravates the marine team.

    A passive skulk would be a skulk waiting. This could include waiting in the buy menu to evolve, waiting in a vent for an opportune moment or to ambush. The act of waiting is passive. But then the act of ambush is not passive, so you can say to enforce certain aggressive acts, one needs to be passive. For instance, A Gorge healing a harvester can be considered a passive act yet that harvester once built will collect rez which would attribute to the team's capacity to win, which in itself will provide the marines with more aggression.

    You can consider something less aggressive than something else, but there is a fine line on when you can accuse someone of being passive and not aggressive.

    [EDIT] Spelling on one 'aggressive'
  • |strofix||strofix| Join Date: 2012-11-01 Member: 165453Members
    Lonewulfza wrote: »
    |strofix| wrote: »
    sotanaht wrote: »
    |strofix| wrote: »
    sotanaht wrote: »
    As far as what a fade can do behind the lines, consider that no one should be doing anything alone. What a fade can do and what a gorge can do pales in comparison to what a fade AND gorge can do together. Even so, a lone fade on a phasegate is bad news for the marines. How exactly Silence helps with that depends on the situation, but Celerity and Adrenaline help exactly none at all.

    They both get you there faster.

    And I wouldn't really bother with adrenaline. 2 hive adrenaline fade is like 2 hive camo fade, except in that case camo may actually be better, because it can at least maybe do something.

    Nope, neither Celerity nor Adrenaline will get a fade to the front faster. With proper usage of the Shadowstep+jump maneuver you will get to the front exactly as fast without celerity and blink as you would with both of them using blink jumps. Celerity does not affect blink or shadowstep speed, and does not impact your speed using shadowstep jumping, so as a fade you can achieve you're maximum out of combat speed WITHOUT celerity. And of course shadowstep consumes less energy then you regen during its cooldown (during which time you will be maintaining speed through jumping), so adrenaline has no impact here either.

    So you're saying that if we selected a random impartial subject, and asked them to travel from one side of the map to the other, with and without celerity, the celerity time would not be faster?
    Are you willing to let your entire argument ride on that assumption?

    There is something inherently annoying in reading every one of your egotistical posts. Your inability to read, comprehend and understand someone else's point of view is an immeasurable failure and plight on forums that seem more and more common these days. No amount of argument seems to be considered as viable as your own by you. You seem blinded by your own inadequate ability to weigh the opinions of others across from your own.

    And yet, perhaps to my own detriment, I will attempt to school you on the proper use of when something is passive and when something is aggressive.

    A passive action would be an action that has no inherited consequence on victory. Attacking a rez node is not passive and cannot be considered passive. It can be considered the less aggressive(more passive) option when weighed against another option such as the attacking of a group of marines but in itself it cannot be a solely passive act as it provides aggression to the marine team.

    A passive skulk would be a skulk waiting. This could include waiting in the buy menu to evolve, waiting in a vent for an opportune moment or to ambush. The act of waiting is passive. But then the act of ambush is not passive, so you can say to enforce certain aggressive acts, one needs to be passive. For instance, A Gorge healing a harvester can be considered a passive act yet that harvester once built will collect rez which would attribute to the team's capacity to win, which in itself will provide the marines with more aggression.

    You can consider something less aggressive than something else, but there is a fine line on when you can accuse someone of being passive and not aggressive.

    Could the act of a skulk waiting in ambush have "an inherited consequence on victory"?

  • LonewulfzaLonewulfza Join Date: 2013-01-21 Member: 180951Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    |strofix| wrote: »
    Lonewulfza wrote: »
    |strofix| wrote: »
    sotanaht wrote: »
    |strofix| wrote: »
    sotanaht wrote: »
    As far as what a fade can do behind the lines, consider that no one should be doing anything alone. What a fade can do and what a gorge can do pales in comparison to what a fade AND gorge can do together. Even so, a lone fade on a phasegate is bad news for the marines. How exactly Silence helps with that depends on the situation, but Celerity and Adrenaline help exactly none at all.

    They both get you there faster.

    And I wouldn't really bother with adrenaline. 2 hive adrenaline fade is like 2 hive camo fade, except in that case camo may actually be better, because it can at least maybe do something.

    Nope, neither Celerity nor Adrenaline will get a fade to the front faster. With proper usage of the Shadowstep+jump maneuver you will get to the front exactly as fast without celerity and blink as you would with both of them using blink jumps. Celerity does not affect blink or shadowstep speed, and does not impact your speed using shadowstep jumping, so as a fade you can achieve you're maximum out of combat speed WITHOUT celerity. And of course shadowstep consumes less energy then you regen during its cooldown (during which time you will be maintaining speed through jumping), so adrenaline has no impact here either.

    So you're saying that if we selected a random impartial subject, and asked them to travel from one side of the map to the other, with and without celerity, the celerity time would not be faster?
    Are you willing to let your entire argument ride on that assumption?

    There is something inherently annoying in reading every one of your egotistical posts. Your inability to read, comprehend and understand someone else's point of view is an immeasurable failure and plight on forums that seem more and more common these days. No amount of argument seems to be considered as viable as your own by you. You seem blinded by your own inadequate ability to weigh the opinions of others across from your own.

    And yet, perhaps to my own detriment, I will attempt to school you on the proper use of when something is passive and when something is aggressive.

    A passive action would be an action that has no inherited consequence on victory. Attacking a rez node is not passive and cannot be considered passive. It can be considered the less aggressive(more passive) option when weighed against another option such as the attacking of a group of marines but in itself it cannot be a solely passive act as it provides aggression to the marine team.

    A passive skulk would be a skulk waiting. This could include waiting in the buy menu to evolve, waiting in a vent for an opportune moment or to ambush. The act of waiting is passive. But then the act of ambush is not passive, so you can say to enforce certain aggressive acts, one needs to be passive. For instance, A Gorge healing a harvester can be considered a passive act yet that harvester once built will collect rez which would attribute to the team's capacity to win, which in itself will provide the marines with more aggression.

    You can consider something less aggressive than something else, but there is a fine line on when you can accuse someone of being passive and not aggressive.

    Could the act of a skulk waiting in ambush have "an inherited consequence on victory"?

    Did you read past that? Perhaps reading isnt your forte, so I will just quote what I said again.
    This could include waiting in the buy menu to evolve, waiting in a vent for an opportune moment or to ambush. The act of waiting is passive. But then the act of ambush is not passive, so you can say to enforce certain aggressive acts, one needs to be passive.

    Which means, the act of ambush is not passive. The act of waiting to ambush is passive as you are not currently aggravating the enemy team in any way. You are waiting to aggravate them, but not currently doing so. Understand now?
  • dragonmithdragonmith Join Date: 2013-02-04 Member: 182817Members, Reinforced - Diamond
    CrazyEddie wrote: »
    This thread lost all usefulness and interest the moment it became about arguing over the meaning of the term "passive".

    Terminology arguments are stupid. "We all agree that marines should attack enemy resource towers, but we are locked in verbal combat over whether that's resource destruction or tower destruction. This is important. Our penis size is at stake."

    I think you mean "E-peen"

    While confusing at first, the "E-peen", "e-peen" or "e-penis" are fictional, invented for the singular subject, game, forum or even a topic, while actual penis size is established with how big of a car/house/money pile you have...

    Again, not to be confused with BRAGGING about these things on the internet, this is related to the E-peen.

    (To the main idea of this topic, while I never trust my minions to work effectively with anything but shift at the start, I admire those who try different; variety is the spice of life and all that.)

  • |strofix||strofix| Join Date: 2012-11-01 Member: 165453Members
    Lonewulfza wrote: »
    |strofix| wrote: »
    Lonewulfza wrote: »
    |strofix| wrote: »
    sotanaht wrote: »
    |strofix| wrote: »
    sotanaht wrote: »
    As far as what a fade can do behind the lines, consider that no one should be doing anything alone. What a fade can do and what a gorge can do pales in comparison to what a fade AND gorge can do together. Even so, a lone fade on a phasegate is bad news for the marines. How exactly Silence helps with that depends on the situation, but Celerity and Adrenaline help exactly none at all.

    They both get you there faster.

    And I wouldn't really bother with adrenaline. 2 hive adrenaline fade is like 2 hive camo fade, except in that case camo may actually be better, because it can at least maybe do something.

    Nope, neither Celerity nor Adrenaline will get a fade to the front faster. With proper usage of the Shadowstep+jump maneuver you will get to the front exactly as fast without celerity and blink as you would with both of them using blink jumps. Celerity does not affect blink or shadowstep speed, and does not impact your speed using shadowstep jumping, so as a fade you can achieve you're maximum out of combat speed WITHOUT celerity. And of course shadowstep consumes less energy then you regen during its cooldown (during which time you will be maintaining speed through jumping), so adrenaline has no impact here either.

    So you're saying that if we selected a random impartial subject, and asked them to travel from one side of the map to the other, with and without celerity, the celerity time would not be faster?
    Are you willing to let your entire argument ride on that assumption?

    There is something inherently annoying in reading every one of your egotistical posts. Your inability to read, comprehend and understand someone else's point of view is an immeasurable failure and plight on forums that seem more and more common these days. No amount of argument seems to be considered as viable as your own by you. You seem blinded by your own inadequate ability to weigh the opinions of others across from your own.

    And yet, perhaps to my own detriment, I will attempt to school you on the proper use of when something is passive and when something is aggressive.

    A passive action would be an action that has no inherited consequence on victory. Attacking a rez node is not passive and cannot be considered passive. It can be considered the less aggressive(more passive) option when weighed against another option such as the attacking of a group of marines but in itself it cannot be a solely passive act as it provides aggression to the marine team.

    A passive skulk would be a skulk waiting. This could include waiting in the buy menu to evolve, waiting in a vent for an opportune moment or to ambush. The act of waiting is passive. But then the act of ambush is not passive, so you can say to enforce certain aggressive acts, one needs to be passive. For instance, A Gorge healing a harvester can be considered a passive act yet that harvester once built will collect rez which would attribute to the team's capacity to win, which in itself will provide the marines with more aggression.

    You can consider something less aggressive than something else, but there is a fine line on when you can accuse someone of being passive and not aggressive.

    Could the act of a skulk waiting in ambush have "an inherited consequence on victory"?

    Did you read past that? Perhaps reading isnt your forte, so I will just quote what I said again.
    This could include waiting in the buy menu to evolve, waiting in a vent for an opportune moment or to ambush. The act of waiting is passive. But then the act of ambush is not passive, so you can say to enforce certain aggressive acts, one needs to be passive.

    Which means, the act of ambush is not passive. The act of waiting to ambush is passive as you are not currently aggravating the enemy team in any way. You are waiting to aggravate them, but not currently doing so. Understand now?

    So you're saying that, as the passive action, by your definition, can have no active affect on victory, the outcome will be exactly the same, whether the skulk charges suicidally, or lies in wait.
    Correct?
  • LonewulfzaLonewulfza Join Date: 2013-01-21 Member: 180951Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    |strofix| wrote: »
    So you're saying that, as the passive action, by your definition, can have no active affect on victory, the outcome will be exactly the same, whether the skulk charges suicidally, or lies in wait.
    Correct?

    Are you asking me (1)if a passive action has any active effect on victory or are you asking me (2)whether if a skulk lies waiting in ambush and then ambushes the marines will have an effect on victory?

    1 - The whole meaning of passive means that nothing gets done and will have no consequence

    2 - It will most definitely have an effect on victory. It may attribute to the skulk killing one or more marines or it may attribute to the skulk dying but delaying the marines a small while. The degree to what the effect will be can only be determined by the skill of the skulk but ultimately an effect will occur.

    So that said, what is it you are aiming to prove? That the consequences to passive actions can be aggressive?
    so you can say to enforce certain aggressive acts, one needs to be passive

    Or that waiting to ambush but haven't ambushed yet isn't a passive action?

  • thefonzthefonz Join Date: 2011-06-22 Member: 105847Members
    Someone kill this thread. Please. It wants to die. It is being beaten, full metal jacket style. If we don't do something now, its gonna be too late. This thread will go full gomer pyle.

    Mods, please give this thread a jelly doughnuts. With lots of cyanide.
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    Mod close the cancer.
  • bongofishbongofish Join Date: 2003-08-17 Member: 19893Members
    Ghosthree3 wrote: »
    Mod close the cancer.

    Weren't you the one that started this ridiculous passive vs aggressive nonsense?
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    No, I didn't start it, I contributed until I'd had enough of the BS.
  • CommunistWithAGunCommunistWithAGun Local Propaganda Guy Join Date: 2003-04-30 Member: 15953Members
    Probably the best thread I've read in weeks, and rivals my own trolling. Thank you so much
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