When dopey comms and risky strategies collide...
thefonz
Join Date: 2011-06-22 Member: 105847Members
Join Date: 2011-06-22 Member: 105847Members
Just came from a lolfest of a game on summit. I was marine comm, we went for a sloppily executed crossroads relocation. The plan was to have 2 marines cap adjacent RTs and get everyone else in XR for the relocate. I ended up with 6 marines capping RTs and one in XR. We get the relocate off teh ground and things are starting to go well. The aliens started in sub, so we went to cut them off in comp labs and vent. vent goes poorly. They end up starting a hive in DC. We beacon rush DC and catch them with their pants down. We get the hive and manage to bottle them into sub. At this point I'm trying to get upgrades but I keep losing RTs to skulks in the back field. I cant figure out where they are getting through. We had the choke points pretty well at this point. Then one of my marines call out that they have camo skulks.
Fucking camo. It all made sense, thats how the skulks kept getting past the bottle neck.
Between spamming scans, dropping obs, and constant rebuilding, it takes for ever to get res for upgrades. Finally some 20 odd minutes later, we get enough steam rolling to get the pressure high enough to egg lock them. We get the hive, and gg.
The marines were decent players, we didn't lose too many fights. But the skulks were smart enough to group up in camo packs. Even when we came out on top, we lost too many guys to do more than secure what we had. The patient skulks play meant nobody was feeding the meat grinder enough to get egg locked.
If I was on my scan and medpack game better I think we could a turned it much sooner. Bastards kept putting me down to two RTs with some skulks hiding in the back field most of the game...
Fucking camo. It all made sense, thats how the skulks kept getting past the bottle neck.
Between spamming scans, dropping obs, and constant rebuilding, it takes for ever to get res for upgrades. Finally some 20 odd minutes later, we get enough steam rolling to get the pressure high enough to egg lock them. We get the hive, and gg.
The marines were decent players, we didn't lose too many fights. But the skulks were smart enough to group up in camo packs. Even when we came out on top, we lost too many guys to do more than secure what we had. The patient skulks play meant nobody was feeding the meat grinder enough to get egg locked.
If I was on my scan and medpack game better I think we could a turned it much sooner. Bastards kept putting me down to two RTs with some skulks hiding in the back field most of the game...
Comments
Also, taking crossroads with only 1 person? that's crazy... pretty much every game I play the aliens try their hardest to get that place at the start.
kept the aliens on 1-2 rts all game. They might a had 3 at one point. we did see fades around the 18 minute mark lol.
Terrible for the marines maybe. It's risky, but it worked extremely well in this example to the point where aliens on 1 hive held out for 20 minutes. Sure they lost, but I think with either other upgrade they would have lost a lot sooner.
I've won many games with camo first. Again, it's really risky but it can still pay off big. If nothing else it's by far the most fun first upgrade to get first.
As a result, camo is best utilized at the start of a game.... however, then you run the risk of getting egglocked if you don't have a shift hive.
No. No. It's terrible for the aliens.
If it wasn't for the potential of getting egglocked in the beginning of a round, then camo would be better than celerity as long as you don't count those people that decide to crawl slowly around the whole map in camo.
Every time you've won with opening shade hive, you've won because the other team was bad.
If it wasn't for reasons, shade hive would be the best.
fixed.
No, I think you lost the essence of what I was saying.
In that case, all you basically said was "no000pe, ur wrong".
I think you have adequately expressed the essence of what I was saying.
It's not about celerity being better than camo or anything (I actually prefer carapace, but both are fine). It's about the fact that if you go shade hive, then get stuck on two hives, you're fucked, because you don't have cara (really dumb, crag hive should be second if you went shade first) or celerity/adren late game, enjoy seeing your onos and fades get shit on.
Good to know that you can provide sound logic and reasoning to a discussion.
Fades don't need shift upgrades, at all. Choice between celerity and adren is basically asking do I want more energy than I can use properly to excuse sloppy play, or do I want more speed when I'm not properly using my abilities for movement? Fades also benefit MASSIVELY from silence.
Onos really benefit from adren, but before stomp it's not exactly make or break (running away with charge).
Basically shade+crag is a valid order. You risk being egglocked but your skulks should be longer lived so that shouldn't be an issue and by the time you get a second hive it wont matter. The biggest problem is you can't spawn forward eggs, which depending on the map and the situation may not matter.
Also, you thought ADRENALIN was the upgrade I meant for onos? Haha, oh wow. Celerity please.
Silence loses all of its benefits once strong battle lines are established, which occurs around the 7 to 8 minute mark. Yay, I'm silent! This is going to help while I have to blink directly into the incoming marine force.
Silence also only benefits two and a half life forms. The two are skulks and fades, and the half is the lerk. I say half becuase it only benefits a particular kind of lerk, which is the spike hero lerk. This also just happens to be the least beneficial playstyle a lerk can use. Also, skulks and fades don't win games. Gorges and Onos win games, and Gorges and Onos garner absolutely zero benefit from shade hives. Simply by not having adrenaline you massively reduce the effectiveness of bile bomb, which is one of the most important abilities in the game. The biggest benefit of the Onos is also not his power, but the way he can rapidly change targets, attacking anything on the map within seconds of each assault. Without celerity this ability is almost entirely removed.
Long story short, aliens win through passive play. Shade hive assists in passivity in absolutely no way.
We realise (although a dev stated a while back that he took that out, even though he didn't), do YOU realise the speed starts increasing again the moment you stop taking damage/attacking? Onos gets around the corner, immediately starts speeding back up, can make a big difference.
Actually, skulks and fades do win games, skulks carry the early game, with a bit of help from lerk support, then fades carry the game to victory. Unless of course your team wasn't good enough and got to the point where they actually needed an onos at all. Onos' do win games, you're right, only if fades don't win it first.
It's never really been made clear after that "Penalties removed from upgrades" beta build last fall.
Whoa... I don't know where you play... but everytime I play with or against an Alien team that plays passively... they lose.
Aliens have to be aggressively attacking and harassing marine RT's/bases, afterall, what else are they going to do since they don't have to sit there building stuff like marines do...... That's how pretty much every NS2 round I've seen is played. This forces marines to be more on the defensive and are the ones that are playing passively to hold their RT's.
Probably also hasn't been clear because its not true. It does work even during combat. The speed up is permanently being applied every frame you have it. Even during sustained fire, celerity does increase speed. Because fire is typically not sustained, the speed boost can be quite substantial for those lifeforms that actually use celerity for its benefit during combat.
You forget ninja gorges. Depending on your angle of approach, both silence and camo can be absolutely ESSENTIAL for sneaking in and biling a base. Of course, Gorges are the one and only lifeform that really need adrenaline.
When was the last time you started attacking a resource tower with a marine standing next to it, or did a bile bomb run on a base full of marines?
Avoiding marines and going for structures is the very definition of passive play.
?! How is attacking every undefended point you can find passive? That's aggressive play! Passive play is sitting back and waiting for marines to come to you.
And then when the Exo pitches up to defend it, you charge him right?
Oh no, that's right... you run away to attack a res node another day...
Passive play.
Therefore, going and attacking an RT is a form of aggression.
The amount of fail in this thread is amazing.