They were added primarily to fix gorges bile bombing the room while being completely safe pre JP/GL. But in a way they also help aliens as it's not possible to stand near the entrance of nano and pistol snipe skulks as they are coming out of them, making them a little more viable for flanking.
Well you still have to go in and out of them so how does that help aliens? Now people complain that the gorges are completely safe from jp/gl but bile bomb is still a hive 2 ability. It seems like people were complaining that in some way an alien had an advantage and it should have been a marine advantage. Same way with how they got rid of the vents above topographical thinking it was unfair that aliens have a safe place to hide.
Does anyone remember veil from NS1? You actually had to use teamwork to get into vents but now you don’t. Here are some vents that marines can simply run up to and jump in by themselves.
Those ones in sub were ALWAYS there. I guess nano was added to stop gorge bile bomb? Unnecessary IMO, since you could shoot the gorges out anyway.
No they weren't, though been playing since alpha. They also added them cause gorges could bile bomb from the vent, It's like a five year old screaming that a gorges can arc his bile bomb and marine bullets only go straight. Thats why you get a gl, guess what you can arc them too.
Well, at least that big lead plate was added on either side of nano, preventing XRAY Onos eyes from seeing marine pushes, and also preventing marines from sieging out nano with absolutely no effort.
Aliens are better than marines by default, hence they(The aliens) have the advantage on every other map.
Assuming they(The marines) have the advantage on Veil.
The reason it's marine bias is mostly how strong the central area on the map can be (nano) and that there are only 4 tech points. Everyone already knows this I'm not sure why it needs to be discussed.
I'm sorry, what exactly makes a map more race favored than another besides winrate on a given map?
We already know Aliens are skewed to win more in the current state of the game, so how can anyone possible pindown an imbalance in map design to favor one race over the other?
I'm sorry, what exactly makes a map more race favored than another besides winrate on a given map?
We already know Aliens are skewed to win more in the current state of the game, so how can anyone possible pindown an imbalance in map design to favor one race over the other?
4 tech points.
If the marines control one, and you can't take it, GG.
Aliens kinda need the hive 3 abilities to take out 2 CC marines.
I'm sorry, what exactly makes a map more race favored than another besides winrate on a given map?
We already know Aliens are skewed to win more in the current state of the game, so how can anyone possible pindown an imbalance in map design to favor one race over the other?
When an obvious imbalance exists between the two teams, you need to look at maps from a theoretical perspective in order to determine balance.
The entire meta game is based around marines defending 3 tech points against aliens who have 2 tech points, and require a third. In veil, marine's need only defend two locations in order to deny the alien's their third tech point. This alone is enough to completely throw balance out of whack. Then add how easy it is to siege nanogrid clear, and how few viable cyst paths their are, and you have a map which screams marine advantage.
NarfwakJoin Date: 2002-11-02Member: 5258Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica PT Lead, NS2 Community Developer
I'd really like to see another tech point and some re-arrangement to make the map a bit more radially symmetrical, but I'm guessing that would take quite a lot of work. As it stands, yeah, veil is a bit weird by NS2 mapping standards, but it's a fun throwback to NS1 so it's okay in my book.
Yes in NS1 veil marines could weld the vent's closed in nano, but NS2 is lacking a great deal from NS1. I still don't understand why we have to deal with this map, it's a NS1 map so lets leave it as an NS1 map.
A horrible change that just makes this map even more Marine friendly.
its was difficult enough as it was to get entrenched marines out of nano, now its even more difficult.
I really don't see how being able to bile nano from the vents warrants a nerf, marines could get into the vents and kill the gorge, or *shock horror* research upgrades i.e grenade launchers or jet packs, which is perfectly reasonable considering bile is a second hive ability.
Ahhh makes sense now, $10k for this map..... you way over paid.
The map is beautiful and stays true to its NS1 roots. The map is not bad, it merely needs some adjustments, just as all maps currently do, except maybe the two that perfectly follow the (boring) guidelines.
Comments
Dear OP,
thread history/searches are your friend....
ffs.
Does anyone remember veil from NS1? You actually had to use teamwork to get into vents but now you don’t. Here are some vents that marines can simply run up to and jump in by themselves.
No they weren't, though been playing since alpha. They also added them cause gorges could bile bomb from the vent, It's like a five year old screaming that a gorges can arc his bile bomb and marine bullets only go straight. Thats why you get a gl, guess what you can arc them too.
The Sub one was always there, sorry, know I'm right on this one, I've sat up there looking at the shielding enough times.
Even if arc'd the top of the gorges body was shootable if the marine stood back far enough.
And it means you're going to have to sit and camp the vent just to make sure the gorge can't do the same to you. That's not a fun position to be in.
Veil is marine sided.
What about the other maps that are all alien sided?
Wat?
Assuming they(The marines) have the advantage on Veil.
We already know Aliens are skewed to win more in the current state of the game, so how can anyone possible pindown an imbalance in map design to favor one race over the other?
4 tech points.
If the marines control one, and you can't take it, GG.
Aliens kinda need the hive 3 abilities to take out 2 CC marines.
When an obvious imbalance exists between the two teams, you need to look at maps from a theoretical perspective in order to determine balance.
The entire meta game is based around marines defending 3 tech points against aliens who have 2 tech points, and require a third. In veil, marine's need only defend two locations in order to deny the alien's their third tech point. This alone is enough to completely throw balance out of whack. Then add how easy it is to siege nanogrid clear, and how few viable cyst paths their are, and you have a map which screams marine advantage.
I liked Nancy, Bast, and Eclipse.
Let's play on the same five maps over and over again, because that's more fun.
Veil may not be my favourite NS2 map, but it's better than docking.
its was difficult enough as it was to get entrenched marines out of nano, now its even more difficult.
I really don't see how being able to bile nano from the vents warrants a nerf, marines could get into the vents and kill the gorge, or *shock horror* research upgrades i.e grenade launchers or jet packs, which is perfectly reasonable considering bile is a second hive ability.
Know pain, is correct the vent covers were added to sub, they weren't always there.
The map is beautiful and stays true to its NS1 roots. The map is not bad, it merely needs some adjustments, just as all maps currently do, except maybe the two that perfectly follow the (boring) guidelines.