No, it doesn't. The fix is very very easy. No band-aids needed: <b>Calculate the min-distance with the same code you calculate the max-distance.</b> (=AI movement code)
And the problem is solved. I don't understand why it wasn't even made this way in the first place.
<!--quoteo(post=2062191:date=Jan 17 2013, 07:46 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Jan 17 2013, 07:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2062191"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Personally i believe its an atmosphere thing. And it plays to great effect in my opinion.. its something you don't see in other games. Infestation literally taking over a facility. Its exactly what we all got excited for years ago from the tech video and what a lot of fans pre ordered for. Its why when maps load you see infestation taking over the map in an image. It is NS2's theme and its amazing.. but for those who play the game day in, day out, they may get to the point where the atmosphere and theme wear off and they only care about gameplay.. which is when bells and whistles like this start to appear like fat that should be carved off. But remember customer #632,004 might be just experiencing this for the first time and is blown away and sold with the complement of gameplay and theme. I still play with all settings on high when i pub for this reason alone.
Cysts really aren't that much of an issue.. this thread here is about a bug. A major one in fact. But its not like this issue or any other existed for the cyst or powernode for some time now.. and yes last time there was an issue this exact argument you are using was voiced.
But i assure you, this downside is an unintended consequence and shouldn't be used as fuel for the "This is why cysts/powernodes suck" argument some may have.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, yes, yes... Which is why people say keep infestation if you must, but only in an aesthetic capacity. You keep your atmosphere and we'll keep our creativity and options.
<!--quoteo(post=2062329:date=Jan 17 2013, 05:52 PM:name=Frothybeverage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Frothybeverage @ Jan 17 2013, 05:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2062329"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Cysts are only a chore when marines break your chains.
Power nodes are only a chore if there is a gorge bilebombing it.
Smart marines don't build power unless they need it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Funny you say that, when I thought about how nodes and cysts are obnoxious I never even thought of those situations.
If you want dynamic infestation so damn bad (Which is apparent, you'll notice most the playtesters and other people closer than the rest of us to the development team absolutely love cysts and power nodes) then let it be a purely atmospheric thing. I love it too, but cysts are dumb and boring, as are power nodes. If you're going to force players to build these stupid objects, then give them a real purpose other than providing a barrier which you have to overcome "just because"
Or get rid of them and have dynamic infestation be a property released by ALL alien structures, and provide an innate bonus such as slow healing or silence, or give it the property of the last object used to spread it. Drop a crag to produce the infestation receive healing, drop a shift to receive speed or bite speed increase. These ideas foster IronHorse's concept of borders (gives a clear and distict area that is 'owned' by the kharaa) and yet it also makes it a fun place to be (Marines will be pushing here, but I get some healing, or whatever)
No offense but I think if they're so insistant on infestation, my idea of having shifts crags and shades provide the progressive creep is a much better execution of the idea, and with proper tweaking and careful balancing, it'd be a fun addition to the game
Which should be the development teams priority. #1 Should always be FUN with stability and performance a close second. Ill go ahead and post my idea over to the ideas board as well for it to be ignored. ;)
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
<!--quoteo(post=2062585:date=Jan 18 2013, 04:55 AM:name=_Necro_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (_Necro_ @ Jan 18 2013, 04:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2062585"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No, it doesn't. The fix is very very easy. No band-aids needed: <b>Calculate the min-distance with the same code you calculate the max-distance.</b> (=AI movement code)
And the problem is solved. I don't understand why it wasn't even made this way in the first place.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Brian: min distance and max distance is calculated the same way, (position - position):GetLength()
Yea, again, to those who keep saying "just make it automatic then" observe the post above a bit where i covered that with theoretical arguments. And really, in regards to operating solely as a restricting gameplay element, i feel that its barely even that.. you can plob down cysts across an entire map, and they grow independent of each other so the last one you placed will still allow you to drop that RT or crag in just around 3 seconds typically. 3 seconds, CommunistWithAGun.. thats basically your idea with a slight delay?
Powernodes are a different mechanic, requiring human involvement. It was better when the round started you off with a mac as it eased this imbalance slightly. (travel time of the mac dictated build speed then, which was longer than 3 seconds) But lets be honest here.. your buildings required humans to build in NS1 and NS2 anyways, this is just another building that takes a whole 5 seconds that serves to "claim your territory".
It'd work better if the whole dynamic lighting engine was really utilized, with pitch dark rooms and aliens that were built around taking advantage of this.. but early in development many many people hated this aspect and mechanic, and the devs wanted their map textures shown so the dynamic lighting went from providing gameplay to simply very mild aesthetics, which is a shame imo, because now its just seen as fat.
would love a way for commander to de-evolve a hive so that it can be evolved into a different type of hive at the cost of all associated structures dying. for example you have 3 hives, but the marines kill your shift hive and now you have a shade and crag hive. You can then de-evolve the shade hive which in turn kills all shades and veils but will allow you to evolve this hive into a shift hive.
<!--quoteo(post=2062760:date=Jan 18 2013, 12:53 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Jan 18 2013, 12:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2062760"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It'd work better if the whole dynamic lighting engine was really utilized, with pitch dark rooms and aliens that were built around taking advantage of this.. but early in development many many people hated this aspect and mechanic, and the devs wanted their map textures shown so the dynamic lighting went from providing gameplay to simply very mild aesthetics, which is a shame imo, because now its just seen as fat.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> +1 to this. I say the alien rooms should be pitch dark, or at least <i>way</i> dimmer than it is. The red emergency lighting does little to hinder the marines vision.
Comments
The fix is very very easy. No band-aids needed: <b>Calculate the min-distance with the same code you calculate the max-distance.</b> (=AI movement code)
And the problem is solved. I don't understand why it wasn't even made this way in the first place.
Its exactly what we all got excited for years ago from the tech video and what a lot of fans pre ordered for. Its why when maps load you see infestation taking over the map in an image. It is NS2's theme and its amazing.. but for those who play the game day in, day out, they may get to the point where the atmosphere and theme wear off and they only care about gameplay.. which is when bells and whistles like this start to appear like fat that should be carved off. But remember customer #632,004 might be just experiencing this for the first time and is blown away and sold with the complement of gameplay and theme.
I still play with all settings on high when i pub for this reason alone.
Cysts really aren't that much of an issue.. this thread here is about a bug. A major one in fact. But its not like this issue or any other existed for the cyst or powernode for some time now.. and yes last time there was an issue this exact argument you are using was voiced.
But i assure you, this downside is an unintended consequence and shouldn't be used as fuel for the "This is why cysts/powernodes suck" argument some may have.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, yes, yes... Which is why people say keep infestation if you must, but only in an aesthetic capacity. You keep your atmosphere and we'll keep our creativity and options.
Power nodes are only a chore if there is a gorge bilebombing it.
Smart marines don't build power unless they need it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Funny you say that, when I thought about how nodes and cysts are obnoxious I never even thought of those situations.
If you want dynamic infestation so damn bad (Which is apparent, you'll notice most the playtesters and other people closer than the rest of us to the development team absolutely love cysts and power nodes) then let it be a purely atmospheric thing. I love it too, but cysts are dumb and boring, as are power nodes. If you're going to force players to build these stupid objects, then give them a real purpose other than providing a barrier which you have to overcome "just because"
Or get rid of them and have dynamic infestation be a property released by ALL alien structures, and provide an innate bonus such as slow healing or silence, or give it the property of the last object used to spread it. Drop a crag to produce the infestation receive healing, drop a shift to receive speed or bite speed increase. These ideas foster IronHorse's concept of borders (gives a clear and distict area that is 'owned' by the kharaa) and yet it also makes it a fun place to be (Marines will be pushing here, but I get some healing, or whatever)
No offense but I think if they're so insistant on infestation, my idea of having shifts crags and shades provide the progressive creep is a much better execution of the idea, and with proper tweaking and careful balancing, it'd be a fun addition to the game
Which should be the development teams priority. #1 Should always be FUN with stability and performance a close second. Ill go ahead and post my idea over to the ideas board as well for it to be ignored. ;)
The fix is very very easy. No band-aids needed: <b>Calculate the min-distance with the same code you calculate the max-distance.</b> (=AI movement code)
And the problem is solved. I don't understand why it wasn't even made this way in the first place.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Brian: min distance and max distance is calculated the same way, (position - position):GetLength()
Yea, again, to those who keep saying "just make it automatic then" observe the post above a bit where i covered that with theoretical arguments.
And really, in regards to operating solely as a restricting gameplay element, i feel that its barely even that.. you can plob down cysts across an entire map, and they grow independent of each other so the last one you placed will still allow you to drop that RT or crag in just around 3 seconds typically. 3 seconds, CommunistWithAGun.. thats basically your idea with a slight delay?
Powernodes are a different mechanic, requiring human involvement. It was better when the round started you off with a mac as it eased this imbalance slightly. (travel time of the mac dictated build speed then, which was longer than 3 seconds) But lets be honest here.. your buildings required humans to build in NS1 and NS2 anyways, this is just another building that takes a whole 5 seconds that serves to "claim your territory".
It'd work better if the whole dynamic lighting engine was really utilized, with pitch dark rooms and aliens that were built around taking advantage of this.. but early in development many many people hated this aspect and mechanic, and the devs wanted their map textures shown so the dynamic lighting went from providing gameplay to simply very mild aesthetics, which is a shame imo, because now its just seen as fat.
+1 to this. I say the alien rooms should be pitch dark, or at least <i>way</i> dimmer than it is. The red emergency lighting does little to hinder the marines vision.