I'm done with Marines until something changes.
Draconic
Join Date: 2012-12-31 Member: 176880Members
Join Date: 2012-12-31 Member: 176880Members
I've been playing NS2 for over 300 hours now, and I'm fed up with playing on the Marine side, please read on:
TL;DR
1. Horrible performance on high end machines
2. Imbalanced gameplay (NS2 Stats), separate public vs competitive, core of any game is public gaming
3. More teamwork required of marines
4. Bile bomb OP; gorges should cost 20 res
1. I have a pretty solid computer which can run Skyrim on Ultra high settings with over 15 graphical mods applied. I run all my other games at the highest settings, ie. Borderlands 2 and Left 4 Dead 2. I can even Planetside 2 on Medium-High graphics and maintain 60+ FPS in epic scale combat scenarios. Now with NS2, I simply cannot maintain a decent enough FPS to play well. I have the game set to MINIMAL settings, and even reduced my resolution. I've done everything I possible can to optimize gameplay, set priority to very high or realtime, etc etc, yet I always lose performance in this game.
2. We can discuss balance as much as we like on the forums, but the fact is that the aliens are overpowered in public play. I would quote NS2 stats, but the site is down at the moment. I feel confident saying this statement from personal experience, and discussions with other players. I could care less about balance in competitive play, if you want to maintain a solid game, you have to balance it based on public play. Competitive players can use whatever edited game settings that they wish to use, they are the minority of NS2 players anyways. Competitive play is not an option for me, even if I wanted to do so, based on my having to actually work for a living, and the poor performance.
3. Coordination required from Marines. Even before the influx of new players from the Steam sale, Marines always had the lingering problem of requiring actual teamwork. It's much, much easier for aliens to coordinate with their amazing mobility and ease of combat mechanics (minus Fade). The Marines are cursed by this problem. If I stack Aliens with friends it's a guaranteed win, and I feel bad winning because it's so easy. When I stack Marines with good players, it ends up just being a "good" game. We rarely win as handsomely as we do on Aliens, UNLESS we do a coordinate rush on the Alien hive immediately after starting the match. After this "window" closes, it becomes very tough for marines because of harassment. The closest the game comes to balanced is in 12v12 games. The reason being that in smaller games aliens can very easily harass RTs, in these large games this becomes more difficult, and the game just feels balanced. The only problem with 12v12s is the even further loss in performance.
4. This belongs to the balance section, but the game can be summed up by one simple tactic - Bile bomb the power node. In Alien games that go that extra mile, Onos become useless and the only way aliens win is bile bomb rushes. Onos at this point just spam Stomp and try to stay alive. The gorge is the ultimate unit in this game, especially seeing how it only costs 10 res to evolve. Meaning if you choose to, you can gorge rush power nodes the entire game and you will nearly always have enough res to go gorge again, and repeat. Gorge's should cost more res (20?), simple. Bile bomb effectiveness should be reduced on buildings.
TL;DR
1. Horrible performance on high end machines
2. Imbalanced gameplay (NS2 Stats), separate public vs competitive, core of any game is public gaming
3. More teamwork required of marines
4. Bile bomb OP; gorges should cost 20 res
1. I have a pretty solid computer which can run Skyrim on Ultra high settings with over 15 graphical mods applied. I run all my other games at the highest settings, ie. Borderlands 2 and Left 4 Dead 2. I can even Planetside 2 on Medium-High graphics and maintain 60+ FPS in epic scale combat scenarios. Now with NS2, I simply cannot maintain a decent enough FPS to play well. I have the game set to MINIMAL settings, and even reduced my resolution. I've done everything I possible can to optimize gameplay, set priority to very high or realtime, etc etc, yet I always lose performance in this game.
2. We can discuss balance as much as we like on the forums, but the fact is that the aliens are overpowered in public play. I would quote NS2 stats, but the site is down at the moment. I feel confident saying this statement from personal experience, and discussions with other players. I could care less about balance in competitive play, if you want to maintain a solid game, you have to balance it based on public play. Competitive players can use whatever edited game settings that they wish to use, they are the minority of NS2 players anyways. Competitive play is not an option for me, even if I wanted to do so, based on my having to actually work for a living, and the poor performance.
3. Coordination required from Marines. Even before the influx of new players from the Steam sale, Marines always had the lingering problem of requiring actual teamwork. It's much, much easier for aliens to coordinate with their amazing mobility and ease of combat mechanics (minus Fade). The Marines are cursed by this problem. If I stack Aliens with friends it's a guaranteed win, and I feel bad winning because it's so easy. When I stack Marines with good players, it ends up just being a "good" game. We rarely win as handsomely as we do on Aliens, UNLESS we do a coordinate rush on the Alien hive immediately after starting the match. After this "window" closes, it becomes very tough for marines because of harassment. The closest the game comes to balanced is in 12v12 games. The reason being that in smaller games aliens can very easily harass RTs, in these large games this becomes more difficult, and the game just feels balanced. The only problem with 12v12s is the even further loss in performance.
4. This belongs to the balance section, but the game can be summed up by one simple tactic - Bile bomb the power node. In Alien games that go that extra mile, Onos become useless and the only way aliens win is bile bomb rushes. Onos at this point just spam Stomp and try to stay alive. The gorge is the ultimate unit in this game, especially seeing how it only costs 10 res to evolve. Meaning if you choose to, you can gorge rush power nodes the entire game and you will nearly always have enough res to go gorge again, and repeat. Gorge's should cost more res (20?), simple. Bile bomb effectiveness should be reduced on buildings.
Comments
I really don't get why there is this flood of arguments to balance the game around those that don't know how to play. How does this make sense to anyone?
-_-
cant even read this mess. especially after you brought up LEFT 4 DEAD 2?!
I do think it's a game design flaw that the correct playstyle is not intuitive enough for new marines. I think there are a bunch of things that could be done to alleviate this, but one that doesn't come up often enough IMO is the absence of information about enemy territory on the minimap. An experienced marine player knows intuitively what RTs the aliens are holding from looking at where his team isn't. A new player however opens his map and sees only the friendly structures, so that's where he focuses his attention. There's nothing there to guide him to hit the alien RTs. In my opinion enemy RTs and hives that have been spotted should appear on the minimap for all to see, similar to the way hives currently show up on the HUD. Just seeing those red icons might help new players to realize how much territory the enemy holds and attack it.
NS2 will get better over time. Most of the idiots who hate teamwork will leave and most of the people playing will get better.
I just came from playing NS2 where Marines won 2 times and Aliens won 2 times. NS2stats actually had aliens and marines at close to even for win/loss percentage until it was flooded with newbs who wanted to play marines (that is not the games fault.)
LOL at trying to compare your FPS to other games that are not multiplayer games (skyrim) or even have that many dynamic entities (L4D2). The only thing you can even compare that's close to as taxing in the dynamic entity department is Planetside 2 which you admittedly get less FPS on, yet Planetside 2 also does not have a number of things that NS2 employs such as NS2's lighting system, the lighting in Planetside 2 is fairly simplistic by comparison.
I just came from playing NS2 where Marines won 2 times and Aliens won 2 times. NS2stats actually had aliens and marines at close to even for win/loss percentage until it was flooded with newbs who wanted to play marines (that is not the games fault.)
LOL at trying to compare your FPS to other games that are not multiplayer games (skyrim) or even have that many dynamic entities (L4D2). The only thing you can even compare that's close to as taxing in the dynamic entity department is Planetside 2 which you admittedly get less FPS on, yet Planetside 2 also does not have a number of things that NS2 employs such as NS2's lighting system, the lighting in Planetside 2 is fairly simplistic by comparison.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comp play also shows a 60/40 split in favor of Aliens, and usually when Marines win it's because of a fast Egglock Rush. You can't just blame everything on steam sales and go back to pretending nothing is wrong.
1. Performance, "I can't play on my high end machine even though everyone else can" This is probably a user error
2. Balance, "OMG the game isn't balanced cause NS2 stats says aliens win a few more games than marines!" if only you separated the games that lasted less than 5 minutes...
3. X team is hard, "I shouldn't have to learn how to play!" yep...
4. X is OP, "There is absolutely no way to stop bilebomb!" Yea there is, shoot the gorge or stand in front of the bilebomb. It won't kill anything but your armor.
I just came from playing NS2 where Marines won 2 times and Aliens won 2 times. NS2stats actually had aliens and marines at close to even for win/loss percentage until it was flooded with newbs who wanted to play marines (that is not the games fault.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The opposite actually, NS2Stats showed a 60/40 alien advantage until the sale hit, after which point it was close to 50/50. I attribute it to bad aliens being incredibly easy to kill, whereas new marines at least know how to shoot.
Ooooh barracuda!
I am sorry but anyone with any knowledge of Eelology knows thats an Eel.
I am disappoint.
Give the game time to mature again. I figure it will start getting better again in 1-2 months.
Though I would agree..the power node system at tech points is ridiculously weak.
TL;DR
1. Horrible performance on high end machines
2. Imbalanced gameplay (NS2 Stats), separate public vs competitive, core of any game is public gaming
3. More teamwork required of marines
4. Bile bomb OP; gorges should cost 20 res
1. I have a pretty solid computer which can run Skyrim on Ultra high settings with over 15 graphical mods applied. I run all my other games at the highest settings, ie. Borderlands 2 and Left 4 Dead 2. I can even Planetside 2 on Medium-High graphics and maintain 60+ FPS in epic scale combat scenarios. Now with NS2, I simply cannot maintain a decent enough FPS to play well. I have the game set to MINIMAL settings, and even reduced my resolution. I've done everything I possible can to optimize gameplay, set priority to very high or realtime, etc etc, yet I always lose performance in this game.
2. We can discuss balance as much as we like on the forums, but the fact is that the aliens are overpowered in public play. I would quote NS2 stats, but the site is down at the moment. I feel confident saying this statement from personal experience, and discussions with other players. I could care less about balance in competitive play, if you want to maintain a solid game, you have to balance it based on public play. Competitive players can use whatever edited game settings that they wish to use, they are the minority of NS2 players anyways. Competitive play is not an option for me, even if I wanted to do so, based on my having to actually work for a living, and the poor performance.
3. Coordination required from Marines. Even before the influx of new players from the Steam sale, Marines always had the lingering problem of requiring actual teamwork. It's much, much easier for aliens to coordinate with their amazing mobility and ease of combat mechanics (minus Fade). The Marines are cursed by this problem. If I stack Aliens with friends it's a guaranteed win, and I feel bad winning because it's so easy. When I stack Marines with good players, it ends up just being a "good" game. We rarely win as handsomely as we do on Aliens, UNLESS we do a coordinate rush on the Alien hive immediately after starting the match. After this "window" closes, it becomes very tough for marines because of harassment. The closest the game comes to balanced is in 12v12 games. The reason being that in smaller games aliens can very easily harass RTs, in these large games this becomes more difficult, and the game just feels balanced. The only problem with 12v12s is the even further loss in performance.
4. This belongs to the balance section, but the game can be summed up by one simple tactic - Bile bomb the power node. In Alien games that go that extra mile, Onos become useless and the only way aliens win is bile bomb rushes. Onos at this point just spam Stomp and try to stay alive. The gorge is the ultimate unit in this game, especially seeing how it only costs 10 res to evolve. Meaning if you choose to, you can gorge rush power nodes the entire game and you will nearly always have enough res to go gorge again, and repeat. Gorge's should cost more res (20?), simple. Bile bomb effectiveness should be reduced on buildings.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow that's a lot of writing to say "Im frustrated I'm not doing well, and I'm not sure how to counter certain attacks and life forms"
I really don't get why there is this flood of arguments to balance the game around those that don't know how to play. How does this make sense to anyone?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Let's say we measure skill as 1, 2, or 3 (3 being highest).
Let's say we measure the effectiveness of a Race as 1, 2, or 3 (3 being most effective.)
Race A
Skill 1 = Effectiveness 1
Skill 2 = Effectiveness 2
Skill 3 = Effectiveness 3
Race B
Skill 1 = Effectiveness 3
Skill 2 = Effectiveness 3
Skill 3 = Effectiveness 3
While this game is theoretically balanced at competitive play, the reality -- <i>what players actually experience </i>-- is not balanced. The overwhelming majority of players will have skill 1-2, at which point Race B is clearly better.
The wisest path is to try to balance for every skill tier, but if anything at least balance for the majority of players. Because if only 1% of your playerbase thinks your game is balanced, your game <b>isn't</b> balanced.
I have 12 years in the industry, most of which has involved professional game balance in some way. It's pretty indisputable that in a public game setting the marine team is slightly disadvantaged right now. Balancing that balance should take priority over competitive play -- the devs should try to account for both, but public play balance actually matters a lot more.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpkitLUbeEg" target="_blank">Ooooh barracuda!</a>
What are your specs?
My rig is not exactly high end (it was 2 years ago), but my performance is far from horrible.
Not perfect, but surely acceptable.
<a href="http://robson.m3rlin.org/cars/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/72barracuda.jpg" target="_blank">Barracuda?</a>
Onoses are probably the most important lifeforms in the late game. And to call them useless simply means you need to learn more about the game.
The reality is that marines are a harder side to play, and the fact that the game lacks any kind of hands-on training means that people bumble around and get rolled by aliens. For the aliens, they don't really need any real coordination for the most part. That works significantly in their favour.
I'm not going to worry about balance anymore though since the devs have the stats and they have said the game is biased towards aliens at present. This will get fixed one way or another, although I hope there are still a good number of players around when it does.
<!--quoteo(post=2053900:date=Dec 31 2012, 06:09 PM:name=Davil)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Davil @ Dec 31 2012, 06:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2053900"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ooooh barracuda!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2053959:date=Dec 31 2012, 08:36 PM:name=ma$$a$$ter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ma$$a$$ter @ Dec 31 2012, 08:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2053959"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpkitLUbeEg" target="_blank">Ooooh barracuda!</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2053987:date=Dec 31 2012, 10:04 PM:name=Squishpoke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squishpoke @ Dec 31 2012, 10:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2053987"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://robson.m3rlin.org/cars/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/72barracuda.jpg" target="_blank">Barracuda?</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href="https://www.barracudanetworks.com/" target="_blank">Barracuda.</a>
<b><u>Gameplay</u></b>
I think that UWE should implement gameplay mechanisms that support teamwork on the marine side. You can create as many waypoints and icons on the HUD as you want, but if there isn't an intuitive benefit for working together as a team, then it's going to be very difficult for newer players to be successful as marines.
What ever happened to squads? I think this was a useful feature in the beta builds, but disappeared some time ago.
My recommendation would be that creating an arms lab unlocks a squad leader feature where the marine commander can designate individuals as squad leaders and assign them a color (or they're assigned a color automatically). Being around a squad leader has certain benefits, which can be researched at the arms lab, such as slowly replenishing ammo or health, or faster build + repair times.
Marines need better delegation of tasks. Right now the commander controls everything, and he/she has many, many more things to do than the alien commander. This can result in poor micro AND macro gameplay simply due to not being able to multitask quickly enough to respond to multiple things happening at once. If marines can better delegate tasks to squad leaders, this can allow the marine commander to have better focus on his/her tasks, while also supporting teamwork on the ground between marines.
For instance, you could delegate two squad leaders, one for attacking and one for defending/recapping. The attackers get the buff for ammo/health slow replenishment, and as long as other marines are near the squad leader, they receive this bonus and show up as part of the squad. Marines would want to be near the squad leaders so that they receive these bonuses because it makes them better. The defenders get the build/repair time increase buff (should be marginally faster, not like ye olde nano-construct), so they can quickly move about the map securing resources. Squad leaders could be more experienced players in pubs, who would then be able to help the newer players, instead of relying on the commander for everything.
An aspect of NS1 that I found very enjoyable is buddying-up with other marines to explore the map. NS2 can be so frantic that players just run around without waiting for others.
<b><u>Performance</u></b>
I sound like a skipping record along with everyone else where performance is key to marine success. Better FPS is needed in battle situations for marines to be able to track and locate alien players. I still think there needs to be work on the animation system for skulks so marines can better determine the future position of a skulk player, which will help with aiming.
It's terribly confusing in some combat situations for a group of marines against a group of skulks and being able to determine where the skulks are.
I don't think aliens need to be de-buffed by making them slower or less maneuverable. Movement is a key aspect of the alien play style, but marines should have better animation clues as to where a skulk is moving.
<u><b>Final Remarks</b></u>
I think the key problem is lack of teamwork. Marines need way more coordination since there is a special relationship between the commander and the marine. The same isn't true for aliens. Since alien structures automatically build themselves, alien players can run around and do whatever they want while still getting the upgrades and resources they need to be successful. Commanders are reliant upon marines to build structures to get upgrades and resources. Sure, you could build a bunch of MACs, but MACs kinda suck at building stuff, and they're easily destroyed by alien players.
If there is a lack of teamwork on the marine side, structures don't get built as quickly as they should and marines are easily distracted and don't necessarily follow the game plan of the commander. Delegation of tasks to marine players would help with teamwork and take some of the burden off of the commander. Players around squad leaders would inherently know their role in the game, and aren't bound to that play style if they don't want (e.g. if you don't want to go around securing res nodes, don't follow the build squad leader). You can still run around solo as a marine, but you won't be receiving the perks of working together.
2. Imbalanced gameplay (NS2 Stats), separate public vs competitive, core of any game is public gaming
3. More teamwork required of marines
4. Bile bomb OP; gorges should cost 20 res<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. No. i5-2500k @ 4.5GHz with a GTX 570 here and my FPS NEVER deviates from 60FPS (v-sync). Reevaluate your definition of a high end machine.
2. I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here. You don't want to play with people that are better than you? Play on a noob-friendly server.
3. Marines require more team work, but it's not that hard. Also, marines by far have an advantage for end game (exos).
4. Now I know you're on drugs. It doesn't take much to take down a gorge, but they're the only really viable counter to exos (healing Onos and bilebombing exos).
Seems to me like you bought the game expecting Counter Strike or something and didn't really realize that you'd have to actually think in order to play NS2. Thinking is hard.
Maybe, make it take longer for aliens to go into full camo, add a second or two to the time u have to stand still. But on the flip side, if the marine team knows the very basic method of observatory's and pings, camoflauge is pretty worthless except deep within alien territory.
Hmm... Conclusion... NS2 is balanced, stop being noobs, if you cant play NS2 i suggest you mail me your computer, and you go to walmart and get a playstation.
As for bad performance: That is relevant. I had a 'high end' phenom AMD cpu, 6 core, and had terrible performance. I have the same GPU now, but an i7 3770k and i can max out the game. This should be addressed as its going to affect about half the playerbase.
1. Buy a higher end machine
2. Put your settings lower
3. Quit the game (AKA Give devs time to optimize the game until you return)
"2. Imbalanced gameplay (NS2 Stats), separate public vs competitive, core of any game is public gaming"
1. public and compeditive is allready seperated with clan organised scrims and specially hosted passworded servers.
2. NS2 Stats only counts games on servers running NS2 stats, and even then the NS2 stats system doesn't take in all the games played. It's a janky broken system.
I've played over 150 hours of NS2 since launch, and a lot more before that. But according to NS2 Stats i've only played 9 games? Yeah.. No.
"3. More teamwork required of marines"
1. Mics.. I cannot stress this enough, Mics Mics Mics. Allways when i play aliens Everyone, me included use Mics. When i'm on marines, Maybe one guy with a bad temper is yelling at everyone to do something..
2. New players pick marines for (to me) some weird obscured reason They don't know what to do, They don't know what is important.
To be honest, The 'rookie' system needs to be longer, Like at least 30 games played in order to be automatically cleared from rookie status.
That way people can be more clear about what they need to do.
"4. Bile bomb OP; gorges should cost 20 res"
1. The only reason people find them 'OP' is because power nodes are a flawed system to stop an entire base from opperating.
2. Grenade launchers in comparison with bilebomb, Over the course of 15 seconds of shooting consecutively (about the energy pool size of an adrenaline gorge spamming bilebomb) the damage of grenade launchers is 20% higher.
It costs 10 resources, yes, But gorges are very weak, and need to stand a lot closer to what they want to siege.
3. To counter that retarded Marine Turtle.
True that and ive seen that happen, even to myself lol, being pwned isnt all that bad.
I also feel that NS2 is balanced, im still waiting for that 1 hour epic match tho(when i can find the servers again that is) i like playing both sides so thats a plus and i can do good on both sides so again, its balanced imo + ive encountered all aliens and marines and i see no unbalance, fully upgraded or not.