Having sufficiently lurked this thread I stand to say that I really liked the ideas and, mostly, the initiative of trying to innovate, but I have to agree that these suggestions are indeed radical enough to a whole new game/mod.
The idea of autonomous infestation was also my expectation while seeing the first concept videos of ns2. Have a look at this lifeform:
I always thought NS2 infestation was inspired by that.
The current cysts mechanics must have really simplified the work for the developers, as well as adding a role for the Khaara commander. An autonomous infestation would require some sort of way-point embedded in the maps, if not an ''AI'' of its own.
Adding to your suggestions, maybe the Alien Comannder would still be needed to <b>set the direction</b> to which the infestation would spread. Or even set some sort of<b> priority weight</b> to each node on the map, kind of <b>guiding the infestation</b> instead of really determining it. This way the whole thing would not be too automatic/unstrategic.
This openess for discussion is something I always liked on the NS community, even since I played NS1 (until combat mode showed up).
The real thing that we're getting at here is that most games, after production and release, tend to change by only a limited degree. Many game could benefit greatly by constantly updating and changing things on a larger scale. I have always felt that it would make the reality of the game world seem to evolve as we play in it, almost responsively to our actions and wishes.
But that's just my personal musings.
Hello again folks.
Yesterday I began playing NS2 again for the first time in months, having given the game, what I hoped to be, enough time to smooth over the remaining balance issues.
What I found was worse than I had imagined...
Let me begin this little narrative/moan.
I joined a server and for some reason we had every evolution except Camouflage, what many Marines considered our OP weapon.
It wasn't until two matches later that, having finally been granted access to this evolution, that I discovered why it had gone out of favor:
1) Camouflage now only functions when you are standing still, not while moving.
2) Tacking damage greatly increased the re-Camo time of your alien.
3) Marines still have exactly the same observatories, although less used, as before.
Can someone please tell me what is going on here?
Camouflage was the Khraan's equalizing weapon! All that was needed to fix it's slightly tricky aspects, the ones that many Marine players moaned about ceaselessly on these forums, is a few tweaks to the Marine upgrades, such as Motion Trackers, Infra-Red Goggles and a torch that shows alien outlines.
And speaking of Marines giving unfair amounts of attention to this; the Marines frequently won anyway, the Camo was only useful if the Marines weren't checking every corner with gunfire and it reduced our movement speed (Yes, my language does give away the fact that I play mostly alien).
And the real clincher to this is the fact that any Marine player worth their bandwidth, myself included and I am a shit Marine, knew exactly were to shoot in order to kill us aliens anyway!
But that is enough for the Camo...
I also discovered that the Gorge now has a variety of new buildings. This was a step in the right direction but not necessarily far enough.
There is still no 50 or 75 resource, late-game, heavy constructor to give the aliens a bit more durability. We still have no ranged turrets either, which is fine, since Hydras can now grow anywhere and grow significantly faster than before.
Or at least it was fine until I met the new Exos. What is that weapon that they have anyway, a Rail Gun?
The Marines now have another powerful way of rendering all of our defenses useless from afar. As if the previous one and two gunned Exos and the artillery weren't enough!
There is no logical reason that I can think of as to why the Khraan can't have a Dart Turret, like the Lurk's secondary attack, or, for that matter, a bile bomb turret or a spore turret.
On-top of all of this Aliens are still floor-bound, in the case of structures, Gorges, Phades and Onoss'. Wasn't part of the point of this game that the aliens could lurk in the darkest corners and then suddenly 'appear' and cause hell for the Marines? At the moment we can't even appear.
Then, things got better, not:
The Marines attacked us through the vents!
It is specifically stated, through all of the initial development videos and post game information that the vents were an alien advantage to aid them in getting around unseen. So finding marine attacking our main Hive through our vents was the last straw. Once the round was over, we were absolutely hammered by the way, I quite and went back to playing FTL with my new Slug Cruiser.
The problem with the marines in the vents is more serious than many might first think. It is not a case of the Marines having greater mobility, as this wouldn't be a huge problem. The issue is that once a group of Marines are in a vent, an enclosed space with limited access, even to the aliens, it is neigh on impossible to get them out again. We simply can't kill them because there is nowhere to attack from that two Marines can't effectively guard.
Please, do not get me wrong.
Yes; this is a major moan, mostly directed at the Marines.
No; I do not dislike the Marines, or those who play them.
Yes; I am very happy to see that the Marines have been given a greater range of equipment and armament options and I am very aware that any Marine reading this may well think me a hypocrite for this statement alone.
I am in no way opposed to the evolution of this game, as you should be able to tell from the previous discussions on here, which I still stand by, however; it is imperative to the quality of this game that the Khraan be given an equal chance to evolve. Personally I feel that this hasn't happened, although with prolonged play as both Marines and Aliens my opinion will now no doubt soften a little. None the less; if there was ever an opportune moment for someone to step forwards and build this mod, it is now.
The game development team seems to have forgotten what this is all about, and that must change.
No offence intended to anyone, especially Marine newbies who haven't yet learnt where we aliens hide.
If I have offended anyone I offer my apologies.
As you have seen form the rest of this thread I will take every response into consideration, provided that are civil.
Thank you all for reading,
Dan.
Since the win rates are 50-50 now, your one match ended up on the wrong coin flip, I'm afraid.
Even so, I do agree that Camo is back on the back-burner. I quite liked it when I was able to fly as a Lerk while invisible.
Right now UWE is working on new maps, new marine model, and more optimization and bug fixes. They've also been thinking hard about features of the game as well, but as you can imagine it's going to break their hearts if the win-rates starts to skew again. (Overall balance has never been better, in my opinion).
Some people on here have theorized either a merge of silence and camo, or allow camo flicker effect while running full speed and not attacking. I think both of these ideas are pretty cool. It remains to be seen what will happen.
I played every build of NS2 from alpha, with every version of infestation, the worst of which was gorges placing cysts, though they could put them on the walls and celilings.
I personally like how it is now, dont see any reason to change something that works as the designer intended.
That said Charlie does encourage modding, perhaps go look at writing a mod for infestation and see what people think, should keep you busy.
I am not at all surprised that they are using win percentage to measure the success of their games, it's exactly what I would do if I were them (which I'm definitely not).
I am, however, very surprised that it is currently 50% each way. I played seven games on three different servers and the aliens one only one. I suppose it is a small sample though...
OK.
I admit defeat when it comes to that value, however; having balanced teams isn't the only thing important to game-play.
For me at least, and perhaps those like me, game-play has deteriorated, not improved. Unfortunately for me, the game sales and is played as it is, and that's what ultimately drives most professional developers.
If anyone could direct a good and willing modder my way I would be very grateful, as I've been struggling/failing to learn that sort of thing for too many years...
Thanks again,
Dan.
matsoMaster of PatchesJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
every idea you have is utter ###### except number 6 but it would be hard to implement it so this set of ideas will NEVER be part of the game
Nah. Spark can - and do - flicker around lights dynamically. Like when the power goes on and off - PowerPointLightHandler.lua, for the interested.
I actually played around with infestation-based lightning back in the early beta a bit, but the infestation then was just a flat 2d decal, so it didn't make sense for it to obscure lights (which are mostly high up) back then.
A bit complex to do it efficiently and make it look good though.
I know that it's been a long time since anyone has seen or posted on this thread but here goes...
I have a few things to let folks know, the first of which is that I am in the process of learning to code in python. I won't finish the coarse till around Christmas so please don't hold your collective breaths. Once I have completed the coarse I intend to look for similar courses on Graphics Design, Java, Lua and anything else that may be of help to me.
I also have a wide variety of mini-games and experiments to conduct that I have racked up in a fairly large list so I will be busy for the foreseeable future. After all of those are complete I am looking at creating a high-quality game that will probably take many years to reach a level that is suitable for release as my team size is currently myself and one other. On-top of that my fellow teammate doesn't code in Python so we must both learn a new coding language to create it in.
Basically I am going to be very busy on the coding front for many years, however, I would like to slot a good deal of modding and modding experimentation into there somehow. Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately, for you folks Natural Selection 2 is nowhere near the top of my modding list so this thread is unlikely to be active again for a fairly long time.
Oh, and I also have an increasingly time consuming voluntary position that I am hoping might turn into a part-time job at some point in the near future, so I'll have even less time then...
If you would like to what game I am considering to make please follow this link; http://www.spaceempires.net/ftopic-9563-days0-orderasc-0.html.
I have also been intermittently active on other threads relating to a possible SEVI over the past half-decade so if you are really interested be sure to poke around and/or contact me on that forum by PM.
Oops.
I forgot to mention that I also haven't played the game since since my prior posts. In-fact I haven't even got it installed on any of my computers so prior to my modding it I would also like to have the time to re-familiarize myself with it and learn all about any new changes that have occurred so that will cause an additional delay.
Comments
The idea of autonomous infestation was also my expectation while seeing the first concept videos of ns2. Have a look at this lifeform:
Physarum polycephalum
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=n4jRr7YAzfI" target="_blank">Youtube: Slime Mold network</a>
I always thought NS2 infestation was inspired by that.
The current cysts mechanics must have really simplified the work for the developers, as well as adding a role for the Khaara commander. An autonomous infestation would require some sort of way-point embedded in the maps, if not an ''AI'' of its own.
Adding to your suggestions, maybe the Alien Comannder would still be needed to <b>set the direction</b> to which the infestation would spread. Or even set some sort of<b> priority weight</b> to each node on the map, kind of <b>guiding the infestation</b> instead of really determining it. This way the whole thing would not be too automatic/unstrategic.
This openess for discussion is something I always liked on the NS community, even since I played NS1 (until combat mode showed up).
But that's just my personal musings.
Yesterday I began playing NS2 again for the first time in months, having given the game, what I hoped to be, enough time to smooth over the remaining balance issues.
What I found was worse than I had imagined...
Let me begin this little narrative/moan.
I joined a server and for some reason we had every evolution except Camouflage, what many Marines considered our OP weapon.
It wasn't until two matches later that, having finally been granted access to this evolution, that I discovered why it had gone out of favor:
1) Camouflage now only functions when you are standing still, not while moving.
2) Tacking damage greatly increased the re-Camo time of your alien.
3) Marines still have exactly the same observatories, although less used, as before.
Can someone please tell me what is going on here?
Camouflage was the Khraan's equalizing weapon! All that was needed to fix it's slightly tricky aspects, the ones that many Marine players moaned about ceaselessly on these forums, is a few tweaks to the Marine upgrades, such as Motion Trackers, Infra-Red Goggles and a torch that shows alien outlines.
And speaking of Marines giving unfair amounts of attention to this; the Marines frequently won anyway, the Camo was only useful if the Marines weren't checking every corner with gunfire and it reduced our movement speed (Yes, my language does give away the fact that I play mostly alien).
And the real clincher to this is the fact that any Marine player worth their bandwidth, myself included and I am a shit Marine, knew exactly were to shoot in order to kill us aliens anyway!
But that is enough for the Camo...
I also discovered that the Gorge now has a variety of new buildings. This was a step in the right direction but not necessarily far enough.
There is still no 50 or 75 resource, late-game, heavy constructor to give the aliens a bit more durability. We still have no ranged turrets either, which is fine, since Hydras can now grow anywhere and grow significantly faster than before.
Or at least it was fine until I met the new Exos. What is that weapon that they have anyway, a Rail Gun?
The Marines now have another powerful way of rendering all of our defenses useless from afar. As if the previous one and two gunned Exos and the artillery weren't enough!
There is no logical reason that I can think of as to why the Khraan can't have a Dart Turret, like the Lurk's secondary attack, or, for that matter, a bile bomb turret or a spore turret.
On-top of all of this Aliens are still floor-bound, in the case of structures, Gorges, Phades and Onoss'. Wasn't part of the point of this game that the aliens could lurk in the darkest corners and then suddenly 'appear' and cause hell for the Marines? At the moment we can't even appear.
Then, things got better, not:
The Marines attacked us through the vents!
It is specifically stated, through all of the initial development videos and post game information that the vents were an alien advantage to aid them in getting around unseen. So finding marine attacking our main Hive through our vents was the last straw. Once the round was over, we were absolutely hammered by the way, I quite and went back to playing FTL with my new Slug Cruiser.
The problem with the marines in the vents is more serious than many might first think. It is not a case of the Marines having greater mobility, as this wouldn't be a huge problem. The issue is that once a group of Marines are in a vent, an enclosed space with limited access, even to the aliens, it is neigh on impossible to get them out again. We simply can't kill them because there is nowhere to attack from that two Marines can't effectively guard.
Please, do not get me wrong.
Yes; this is a major moan, mostly directed at the Marines.
No; I do not dislike the Marines, or those who play them.
Yes; I am very happy to see that the Marines have been given a greater range of equipment and armament options and I am very aware that any Marine reading this may well think me a hypocrite for this statement alone.
I am in no way opposed to the evolution of this game, as you should be able to tell from the previous discussions on here, which I still stand by, however; it is imperative to the quality of this game that the Khraan be given an equal chance to evolve. Personally I feel that this hasn't happened, although with prolonged play as both Marines and Aliens my opinion will now no doubt soften a little. None the less; if there was ever an opportune moment for someone to step forwards and build this mod, it is now.
The game development team seems to have forgotten what this is all about, and that must change.
No offence intended to anyone, especially Marine newbies who haven't yet learnt where we aliens hide.
If I have offended anyone I offer my apologies.
As you have seen form the rest of this thread I will take every response into consideration, provided that are civil.
Thank you all for reading,
Dan.
Even so, I do agree that Camo is back on the back-burner. I quite liked it when I was able to fly as a Lerk while invisible.
Right now UWE is working on new maps, new marine model, and more optimization and bug fixes. They've also been thinking hard about features of the game as well, but as you can imagine it's going to break their hearts if the win-rates starts to skew again. (Overall balance has never been better, in my opinion).
Some people on here have theorized either a merge of silence and camo, or allow camo flicker effect while running full speed and not attacking. I think both of these ideas are pretty cool. It remains to be seen what will happen.
I personally like how it is now, dont see any reason to change something that works as the designer intended.
That said Charlie does encourage modding, perhaps go look at writing a mod for infestation and see what people think, should keep you busy.
I am, however, very surprised that it is currently 50% each way. I played seven games on three different servers and the aliens one only one. I suppose it is a small sample though...
OK.
I admit defeat when it comes to that value, however; having balanced teams isn't the only thing important to game-play.
For me at least, and perhaps those like me, game-play has deteriorated, not improved. Unfortunately for me, the game sales and is played as it is, and that's what ultimately drives most professional developers.
If anyone could direct a good and willing modder my way I would be very grateful, as I've been struggling/failing to learn that sort of thing for too many years...
Thanks again,
Dan.
Nah. Spark can - and do - flicker around lights dynamically. Like when the power goes on and off - PowerPointLightHandler.lua, for the interested.
I actually played around with infestation-based lightning back in the early beta a bit, but the infestation then was just a flat 2d decal, so it didn't make sense for it to obscure lights (which are mostly high up) back then.
A bit complex to do it efficiently and make it look good though.
But hard? Hardly.
I have a few things to let folks know, the first of which is that I am in the process of learning to code in python. I won't finish the coarse till around Christmas so please don't hold your collective breaths. Once I have completed the coarse I intend to look for similar courses on Graphics Design, Java, Lua and anything else that may be of help to me.
I also have a wide variety of mini-games and experiments to conduct that I have racked up in a fairly large list so I will be busy for the foreseeable future. After all of those are complete I am looking at creating a high-quality game that will probably take many years to reach a level that is suitable for release as my team size is currently myself and one other. On-top of that my fellow teammate doesn't code in Python so we must both learn a new coding language to create it in.
Basically I am going to be very busy on the coding front for many years, however, I would like to slot a good deal of modding and modding experimentation into there somehow. Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately, for you folks Natural Selection 2 is nowhere near the top of my modding list so this thread is unlikely to be active again for a fairly long time.
Oh, and I also have an increasingly time consuming voluntary position that I am hoping might turn into a part-time job at some point in the near future, so I'll have even less time then...
If you would like to what game I am considering to make please follow this link; http://www.spaceempires.net/ftopic-9563-days0-orderasc-0.html.
I have also been intermittently active on other threads relating to a possible SEVI over the past half-decade so if you are really interested be sure to poke around and/or contact me on that forum by PM.
Thank you all for your time,
Dan.
I forgot to mention that I also haven't played the game since since my prior posts. In-fact I haven't even got it installed on any of my computers so prior to my modding it I would also like to have the time to re-familiarize myself with it and learn all about any new changes that have occurred so that will cause an additional delay.
Sorry for the double posting,
Dan.