Infestation Remake
dapo290793
Join Date: 2012-12-26 Member: 176303Members
Join Date: 2012-12-26 Member: 176303Members
<div class="IPBDescription">A major alteration of the function of infestation.</div>Having recently started to play the game I have rapidly found that the infestation is not at all what I expected/wished for. As such I began considering alternative ways that it could be managed and enhanced for a better/different game experience.
I would suggest making some or all of the following modifications to the infestation:
1) The infestation spreads itself, without limit, at a very slow rate.
2) Striking infestation with explosives or a flame thrower causes it to die off.
3) Cysts increase the growth rate of all of the infestation in the game, provided that it is connected, proportionately to the distance between it and the growing edge of the infestation. This may look a lot like an exponential decay curve with Growth Rate Increase up the side and distance along the bottom.
4) All alien structures can be built out of any infestation, including on pipes, or on the ceiling. THIS MEANS ON ANY SUFFICIENTLY LARGE AREA OF INFESTATION!
5) Aliens do not have or use resource extractors. Instead the infestation gives a low resource income based on it's total surface area. More infestation means more resources but if the marines burn it all then you have little income left.
6) Light cannot travel through the infestation. This means that, as the infestation spreads overt the walls and lights in a room it will obscure them, automatically creating darkness in highly infested areas.
7) I don't know if this is already done but give the infestation a very low building damage rate to marine structures, something like one damage per second would be enough.
8) Heavy weapons fire, such as that from four Marines, an Exosuit or a Sentry Gun is sufficient to stop the spread of/kill the infestation within the targeted zone.
This should greatly increase the asymmetry between the alien and marine factions while also slightly increasing the alien's capabilities against the heavy weaponry of late game marines.
Please let me know what you folks think,
Dan
Edit: Clarified point 4).
I would suggest making some or all of the following modifications to the infestation:
1) The infestation spreads itself, without limit, at a very slow rate.
2) Striking infestation with explosives or a flame thrower causes it to die off.
3) Cysts increase the growth rate of all of the infestation in the game, provided that it is connected, proportionately to the distance between it and the growing edge of the infestation. This may look a lot like an exponential decay curve with Growth Rate Increase up the side and distance along the bottom.
4) All alien structures can be built out of any infestation, including on pipes, or on the ceiling. THIS MEANS ON ANY SUFFICIENTLY LARGE AREA OF INFESTATION!
5) Aliens do not have or use resource extractors. Instead the infestation gives a low resource income based on it's total surface area. More infestation means more resources but if the marines burn it all then you have little income left.
6) Light cannot travel through the infestation. This means that, as the infestation spreads overt the walls and lights in a room it will obscure them, automatically creating darkness in highly infested areas.
7) I don't know if this is already done but give the infestation a very low building damage rate to marine structures, something like one damage per second would be enough.
8) Heavy weapons fire, such as that from four Marines, an Exosuit or a Sentry Gun is sufficient to stop the spread of/kill the infestation within the targeted zone.
This should greatly increase the asymmetry between the alien and marine factions while also slightly increasing the alien's capabilities against the heavy weaponry of late game marines.
Please let me know what you folks think,
Dan
Edit: Clarified point 4).
Comments
Not even talking about that it takes marines a somewhat long time into the game before they can even wield explosive or incendiary weapon.
The gameplay experience wouldn't be "better" at all and do you have any idea how much effort it would be to change the system at the current point to something completely different from what players have been experiencing for years now?
If infestation is not what you expected it to be, that is a problem with your expectations then. The goal is also not to create as much asymmetry as possible for the sake of asymmetry but to still have the game balanced. And there is no need to have something against lategame marines because currently aliens have the lategame average in most matches.
That said, I do really like #6- the idea of infestation obscuring lights is a really cool one.
The main thing that would be awesome is that the whole place would be just dripping with infestation so as you neared a hive location you would be absolutely surrounded by infestation, bits dangling from the ceiling, vents covered, lights and windows blotted out... skittering sounds off in the distance. People's computer slide showing, marines swearing about low FPS.
But indeed #6, that would be awesome, hives actually perhaps being a scary place to sneak into instead of marines getting to be a kid in a candy store with all the upgrades.
I have always thought that the internet made cruel and socially unacceptable behaviors far too easy to get away with (just look at arguments on Facebook).
This was just an initial sketch. An idea is exactly that, an idea. Most ideas that are come up with aren't great and most of them don't suit everyone so I will simply ignore the hate mail, unless it clogs up the reasonable discussion at which point I will, if I can, delete it.
A response to you, CrushaK, as you have made some valid points:
The spread of the infestation is a key aspect of the alien race and is entirely controlled by the commander. Making the infestation provide resources over surface area does not reduce the commander's control of resources at all, rather it increases it's flexibility. And, having played alien a lot, it is harder to get a reasonable amount of resources relative to marines; much harder.
You said that it would destroy the strategic positioning for the aliens. It would not. You would still need cysts, defenses, choke points, hives and so forth. It would shift the tactically important area from the main rooms to the corridors of infestation radiating from the hive, not get rid of them.
Your comment on incendiary weaponry is perfectly valid. That is why I said "8) Heavy weapons fire, such as that from four Marines, an Exo-suit or a Sentry Gun is sufficient to stop the spread of/kill the infestation within the targeted zone."
You also say that buildings on the ceiling as a protection from exo-suits and heavy weapons is unnecessary and unwanted. I have seen how quickly a good marine base can repel a trio of Onos'. A solidly defended alien base is almost defenseless against a trio of exo-suits, and even if the aliens kill one the suit owner has gained enough resources in kills to get another. Most Onos' are one per good player per game. Also the roof-top buildings have no more health or effect than those on the ground. It simply increases the degree of variation in a base and allows for harder to get to structures. Once in the targeting arc of an exo-suit it is still dead just as quickly.
"...completely different from what players have been experiencing for years now?" When is 'It wasn't done in number 1, therefore it mustn't be done in number 2!' a good game or business plan. The whole point of a number 2 is to increase customer base, create greater variation and update to use the latest advancements in tools and software.
In response to your asymmetry for it's own sake; While playing the creatures of the aliens and the marines is totally different the races themselves, the structures and their points of interest are exactly the same. Having watched a lot of the development videos I belief that having races that are different and yet still balanced was this games 'Prime Directive'.
Now for sHawke_Native: You've not said anything remotely worth listening to. Either start behaving like a civilized adult, regardless of whether you actually are or not, or stay off this thread. Any further posts that fail to satisfy this will be deleted (Once I've certified that I can delete it, that is).
Thank you all for your responses,
keep them coming,
Dan.
Edit: Added CrushaK to the civil responses list.
Edit: sHawke_Native, your hashs do not correspond to any common curse word I can think of. Most of them seem to be only 4 letters long and some 8, but I can't think of any that are 6 letters long.
Edit 2: I must offer my apologies to you CrushaK. Having reread this thread after a few minutes it is obvious to me that I should not have criticized your response. I'm sorry.
I think 6 is brilliant, Marne structures not having power is just not enough of an advantage. Plus 'emergency lighting' does next to nothing when it comes to vision hindrance. #6 won't entirely make a room black, it will still make it better than emergency lighting.
1) Having infestation damage structures would be too easy to abuse for the aliens
2) building stuff on walls / ceilings doesn't happen to prevent abuse as at least when a shade is cloaking the stuff you know its on the ground somewhere.
3) Having infestation automatically spread would make it seem more like a survival thing / race against time for the marines rather than a true vs conflict.
I do like the idea of infestation blocking light out say if it covers windows etc though.
<sup><!--coloro:Orange--><span style="color:Orange"><!--/coloro-->Tone it down a bit. You can get your thoughts across just fine without the aggression.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></sup>
I think this is one of those sets of ideas that <b>sound</b> really cool, but wouldn't work well in gameplay situations.
Resources based on the infestation surface area is too coarse - the khammander needs a way to see and be able to predict income, based on the teams actions. An alternative would be that you don't need to build an extractor, but simply cover a resnode to receive the resources (an extractor would grow by itself?), but cysts would have to be way more expensive to counter that.
Then there's the off-infestation structures idea - I don't like this. Perhaps if a patch of infestation could be made temporarily, to support them - but that idea has been tested and denied, it didn't work.
The lights going off are an often suggested idea, and a cool one at that. I can definitely imagine that becoming part of the game one day.
What I meant was that any infested surface of the correct area can have a structure built from it even if it is on the ceiling or walls.
I can see where the surface area idea fails and why you say it's a race against time for the marines with auto-growing infestation.
I have two ideas that may solve this:
1) Cysts both expand the infestation and collect resources from it. They would cost about 5 res instead of 1 res and would give, for example, 0.05 res per second per cyst. That value will of course be altered for balance.
2) The auto growth rate of the infestation, while it exists, is incredibly low. It would take the auto growth about an hour to cross an average hive/command point sized room.
3) Because the cysts increase the growth rate over the entire map, just to a very small degree after a short distance, it makes for two viable alien strategies.
A) Build loads of Cysts in one highly defended location and wait for the auto growth to cover everything. This still takes a long time!
B) Spread the Cysts around as is currently done and fight it out tooth and nail.
The thing about building damage was so that power nodes would automatically be destroyed if they get covered in infestation, thus darkening the area, however; as the infestation that I'm looking for blocks light this element can safely be removed.
For the cloaked buildings I am going to have to steal an idea from another thread that I read last night. This would also increase the skill required for sneak ambushes.
1) Slightly reduce the radius of the Observatory. Don't instantly scream, it is a VERY powerful structure.
2) Allow Marines to research and use Motion Trackers. These would give off a warning bleep, frequency dependent on distance, when any nearby alien moves but only if it is drawn. A tool a bit like a welder.
3) Allow the marines to purchase Thermo-Vision Goggles. These devices would, when equipped, show only warmth; invisible walls, railings and room lights. All you will be able to see is other players, on both team, regardless of cloak, and the slightly warm Infestation itself. In other words you pop it on, check where to shoot, pop them off, and then shoot the buildings.
4) Provide the aliens with a third Viel Research-able evolution trait: Cold Bloodedness, which makes an alien invisible to ThermoVision goggles but does not cloak them, silence them, or cover their movements.
5)Modify silence to make motion trackers useless. This is already a fairly useless trait except in very specific circumstances.
I know that all of these suggestion mean changing the existing and much beloved system. Really, my hope is, that by adding a re-jigging abilities like this it will make the game both more variable and skills based but that it will also create the feeling that the two sides have been constantly trying to evolve around each other.
Opinions?
Dan.
What I meant was that any infested surface of the correct area can have a structure built from it even if it is on the ceiling or walls.
I can see where the surface area idea fails and why you say it's a race against time for the marines with auto-growing infestation.
I have two ideas that may solve this:
1) Cysts both expand the infestation and collect resources from it. They would cost about 5 res instead of 1 res and would give, for example, 0.05 res per second per cyst. That value will of course be altered for balance.
2) The auto growth rate of the infestation, while it exists, is incredibly low. It would take the auto growth about an hour to cross an average hive/command point sized room.
3) Because the cysts increase the growth rate over the entire map, just to a very small degree after a short distance, it makes for two viable alien strategies.
A) Build loads of Cysts in one highly defended location and wait for the auto growth to cover everything. This still takes a long time!
B) Spread the Cysts around as is currently done and fight it out tooth and nail.
The thing about building damage was so that power nodes would automatically be destroyed if they get covered in infestation, thus darkening the area, however; as the infestation that I'm looking for blocks light this element can safely be removed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1) No, resources / income should never be tied to cysts. it creates a huge amount of power for the aliens. The reason the game works is Marines and aliens are both after the same resource points. Giving the aliens the ability to generate resources from anywhere would be terrible as they'd most likely create huge cyst filled hives and the problem is clearing out all the cysts compared to clearing a single extractor, especially if the cysts are allowed on walls and ceilings. If aliens were weak as kittens this would be fine but Aliens aren't a weak side at all
3) This would just encourage so much alien defensive play and using the Pres system to Onos spam. People say at present the Marines turtling / last stand isn't that fun well it would be pretty annoying for Marines to face a room full of cysts (Performance issues included) and whips built using the cysts.
<!--quoteo(post=2051811:date=Dec 27 2012, 01:39 PM:name=dapo290793)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dapo290793 @ Dec 27 2012, 01:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2051811"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->For the cloaked buildings I am going to have to steal an idea from another thread that I read last night. This would also increase the skill required for sneak ambushes.
1) Slightly reduce the radius of the Observatory. Don't instantly scream, it is a VERY powerful structure.
2) Allow Marines to research and use Motion Trackers. These would give off a warning bleep, frequency dependent on distance, when any nearby alien moves but only if it is drawn. A tool a bit like a welder.
3) Allow the marines to purchase Thermo-Vision Goggles. These devices would, when equipped, show only warmth; invisible walls, railings and room lights. All you will be able to see is other players, on both team, regardless of cloak, and the slightly warm Infestation itself. In other words you pop it on, check where to shoot, pop them off, and then shoot the buildings.
4) Provide the aliens with a third Viel Research-able evolution trait: Cold Bloodedness, which makes an alien invisible to ThermoVision goggles but does not cloak them, silence them, or cover their movements.
5)Modify silence to make motion trackers useless. This is already a fairly useless trait except in very specific circumstances.
I know that all of these suggestion mean changing the existing and much beloved system. Really, my hope is, that by adding a re-jigging abilities like this it will make the game both more variable and skills based but that it will also create the feeling that the two sides have been constantly trying to evolve around each other.
Opinions?
Dan.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1) Observatories have a short range really. I've often found as an Alien I can stand just outside the base and not be picked up by it.
2) Motion trackers work on motion. shades don't move.
3) Seeing through the map is always a no no, this would be too powerful
5) Silence is super effective. Lerks attacks get silence so Marines have to look for the splash damage and with Celerity you can move full speed round the place without the enemy hearing anything. as while cloak is good using natural stealth is a damn powerful thing too as how do they know to scan or that its worth scanning if they don't hear it coming.
Isn't that a little slow? A vast majority of matches end before that time. maybe make it ~20 min or so.
Also give cysts more HP/Armor if they are going to cost more.
But then, I never liked the khammander idea, so what do I know.
The obvious and simple solution to this is to run the Cysts radius system around: No Cysts can be built WITHIN the radius of another as opposed to no Cyst can be built outside of the area.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Isn't that a little slow? A vast majority of matches end before that time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The exact time will have to be carefully balanced. I can't just make up a perfect value...
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2) Motion trackers work on motion. shades don't move.
3) Seeing through the map is always a no no, this would be too powerful
5) Silence is super effective.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The motion Trackers are designed to make sneaking more difficult, not to make buildings visible.
The Thermo-Vision Goggles will not allow you to see through any solid objects at all. They will merely display nothing for the walls, thus rendering the player in a cage who's walls they cannot see.
Personally I don't know about Silence being super effective. If it is then allow motion trackers to pick it up so as to balance it out a bit better.
As I said before, most ideas are made to be killed.
Thanks for the debate,
Dan
But then, I never liked the khammander idea, so what do I know.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Im just gonna agree with you here. dapo, I think your ideas are a bit too revolutionary to make it in the game anytime soon, but you could get together with the ns2classic modders and see if they like it. Putting structures on walls/ceilings would obviously only work properly from a gorge's perspective but it might also create problems for the marine commander. Since you want to make infestation spread automatically as well as remove harvesters, one could argue that you dont need an alien comm anymore which fits right into ns2c.
I really like your idea about thermogoogles, cold blood upgrade and motion tracking since a lot of new players have been complaining about camo being op in pubs. Would also mean more useful stuff to spend pres as marine in early/midgame. I guess they would also be a softcounter to the vision blocking of lerk spores.
I'd be fine seeing this as a mod but not as a main part of the game.
Firstly I'm not sure what sense it makes for the infestation to generate resources itself when the infestation is a manifestation of the bacterium that forms the Kharaa. Ok so some Bacteria can be photosynthetic but with the resources it makes a bit more sense that it allows more infestation to grow.
I feel like dynamic infestation that constantly spreads even slowly on its own would be adding almost a time limit on Marines. Having it linked to cysts at the moment allows a way to push back infestation without needing to have flamethrowers. If infestation could live on its own once generated then it would be all too easy to abuse and force Marines into flamethrowers to stand a chance.
I have to ask, what would it really add to the game other than a way for Aliens to Turtle too ?
1) Shades themselves are not invisible.
2) Shades must be placed on Power Nodes.
3) Shades must be placed on Resource Nodes.
4) Shades can still only be placed on the floor.
-> Personally I dislike 2, 3 and 4 as they make the teams more symmetrical.
5) Shades pulse in and out of visibility.
-> This is my personal favorite.
6) All cloaked buildings pulse in and out of visibility.
7) Direct, bright light, such as the central region of a torch beam, creates a translucent outline of all cloaked buildings and aliens.
Any one of these suggestions, and there are sure to be more viable solutions, would solve the problem of having buildings placed anywhere within the infestation.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not sure what sense it makes for the infestation to generate resources itself...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bacteria are not just biological sacks of chemicals that respirate and sometimes photosynthesize. They are some of the most hardy creatures known to live, able to survive and thrive for millennia in places such as the Atacama Desert (The driest place on earth), Hydro thermal oceanic vents, subsurface lakes in the Antarctic and even the uppermost reaches of the earth's atmosphere. On-top of this they are able to cooperate in vast colonies of independent cells, creating networks kilometers long. They then also happen to be the driving force of all other living things on earth, capable of metabolizing more chemicals between them, than we humans can safely manipulate. Not trying to shoot you down or anything, but a colonial bacterial colony is perfectly capable of making and managing it's own resources.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I feel like dynamic infestation that constantly spreads even slowly on its own would be adding almost a time limit on Marines. Having it linked to cysts at the moment allows a way to push back infestation without needing to have flamethrowers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why is everyone fixating on flamethrowers!?!
Just because I put them in the list of thing's that'll kill infestation doesn't make it the only way. What happened to;
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2) Striking infestation with explosives or a flame thrower causes it to die off.
8) Heavy weapons fire, such as that from four Marines, an Exosuit or a Sentry Gun is sufficient to stop the spread of/kill the infestation within the targeted zone.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am quite sure that this was specifically put here to stop the timer-like element of very slow spreading infestation. And since we are talking about an hour per room of growth or something similar I feel I must point out that I have never been in a game more than two hours long. Those marines definitely had Exo-suits, Sentry Guns, flamethrowers, grenade launchers and mines! Sorry to seem a bit snappish but I have already said this more than once. LOTS of things can kill the infestation AND a game is not long enough for a timer to be all that relevant anyway.
And I know that these ideas are a bit radical. I seem to have this sort of problem with most new games; the gaming industry is sticking to the old and established, thus leaving the best games lacking in innovative features.
I hope this has solved some of the issues I was having with my proposals.
Please feel free to send more,
Dan.
Edit: Included 2) in final quotation box.
Edit 2: Responded to bERt0r's comment on radical changes.
Edit 3: Added empty line between edits for consistencies sake.
Edit 4: Expanded the content of second quotation.
Well, if anyone knows of this St Lua please let me know where to find him... :)
Collision detection in videogames is everything but easy.
Surely it is possible for the game to test the impact mesh of only the infestation within the area of the attack?
I'm aware of this however it doesn't really make sense for the cysts to be acquiring the resources as it seems more like its feeding on the bacterium rather than the infestation itself developing resources
<!--quoteo(post=2052245:date=Dec 28 2012, 11:25 AM:name=dapo290793)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dapo290793 @ Dec 28 2012, 11:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2052245"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why is everyone fixating on flamethrowers!?!
Just because I put them in the list of thing's that'll kill infestation doesn't make it the only way. What happened to;
I am quite sure that this was specifically put here to stop the timer-like element of very slow spreading infestation. And since we are talking about an hour per room of growth or something similar I feel I must point out that I have never been in a game more than two hours long.
Those marines definitely had Exo-suits, Sentry Guns, flamethrowers, grenade launchers and mines! Sorry to seem a bit snappish but I have already said this more than once. LOTS of things can kill the infestation AND a game is not long enough for a timer to be all that relevant anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The problem is with infestation independent of cysts an enemy commander could cyst rush the enemy base and infestation keeps living outside or even in the base until the marines get the resources to get upgrades to clear it. At present with cysts its pretty simply to kill off infestation beyond the point.
Also even if you added it to say welders to remove infestation it would just make Marine play more boring as they have to chip away at infestation. At present with cysts its a focal point to attack
Unfortunately, the preemptive solution for this that I came up with is even more radical than the suggestions that I have already made. Basically it comes down the making a nutrient mapping and distribution network within the infestation that the marines can specifically target in order to push it back. Of course this starts to look a lot more like using the cysts that are already there, but only at first glance. This idea also makes it easier to get rid of the alien commander, although it was not my initial intention, and reduces the collision detection demands.
It goes something like this:
1) All alien structures are a 'Nutrient Node' for the infestation.
2) A network of 'Veins', thick, pulsing cords, grow out from each 'Nutrient Node', providing growth area to the infestation.
3) The cysts are both cheap 'Nutrient Nodes' and small resource stores, into which the bacterium deposit the gathered resources.
4) Independent networks of 'Veins' will link together to form a single, supper network within the entire infestation.
5) The amount of 'Nutrients' reaching an area is determined several key factors:
A) The distance, through 'Veins' only, to the nearest 'Nutrient Node'. The further away, the fewer nutrients gets to the infestation.
B) The distance from a 'Vein' to the edge of the infestation. The closer the 'Vein', the faster the infestation grows.
C) The type of 'Nutrient Node' that is feeding it. A Hive will provide much better 'Nutrients' than a Shade, which, in turn, is better than a Cyst.
D) The health of the connecting 'Veins'. The more damaged the 'Veins' the less 'Nutrients' get to the infestation further along, forcing it to stop growing and eventually retreat.
E) Breaking the connecting 'Veins' will instantly cut the 'Nutrient' supply to the infestation, killing it on mass.
F) Killing a disconnected 'Nutrient Node' will cause all of the infestation that it supports to starve and die.
6) Infestation growth rate is tied directly to the amount of nutrients that is reaching that area.
7) 'Vein' growth rate is determined by net resource income.
This list, while incredibly complex, would solve many of the above-mentioned issues. The 'Nutrient Nodes' are the primary target for killing off vast areas of the infestation, while attacking the 'Veins' will greatly slow it's expansion as the 'Veins' must heal before 'Nutrient' flow returns to normal. It also greatly reduces the volume of collision detection required to handle the dynamic infestation. On top of that, it renders my list of solutions to the invisible shades on the walls or ceiling inert, as the Marines can simply follow the 'Veins' back to the buildings, even if they are invisible.
I' sure you folks can poke lots of holes in this, so please do,
Dan.
Surely it is possible for the game to test the impact mesh of only the infestation within the area of the attack?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is no impact mesh for the infestation in the area of effect as of now. They would have to make several radial mini collision meshes and scale them up on a spot as the infestation in that spot scales (since that seems to be how infestation is currently handled: it doesn't expand radial from the center to the perimeter of the cyst but instead places small radial sub-infestations within the cyst's radius which then expands a little bit, otherwise they couldn't have it adjust so well to the level geometry).
And having a lot of collision geometry, especially if it has to scale so much, is still expensive. The alternative without geometry would be to test only against infestation in the specific area. Which would still require to find out what infestation patches are actually in that area, and the only way without the collision hash would be to iterate a list of all infestation (maybe grouped per room, but then you would still need to check first which rooms the raytrace from the shot would move through) and compare their location to the shot location.
These are all half-assed assumptions, since I am only a gameplay programmer and not an engine programmer, but I dare to say that there are technical difficulties that make hit-detection on fully dynamically expanding surfaces quite impractical.
Not even talking about that it takes marines a somewhat long time into the game before they can even wield explosive or incendiary weapon.
The gameplay experience wouldn't be "better" at all and do you have any idea how much effort it would be to change the system at the current point to something completely different from what players have been experiencing for years now?
If infestation is not what you expected it to be, that is a problem with your expectations then. The goal is also not to create as much asymmetry as possible for the sake of asymmetry but to still have the game balanced. And there is no need to have something against lategame marines because currently aliens have the lategame average in most matches.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I must agree. The OP's ideas sound like a cool game, but it isn't this game. It would take a significant redesign and I think some parts would be rather difficult programmatically.
So, you've all heard my ideas as they are now, and if a very nice modder loves them maybe I'll get to see them some time soon. Else I won't see them till at least Natural Selection 3 in approximately 5 or 6 years (my guesstimate, nothing more), but probably they'll just be another cool idea I have in my head and haven't the skills to create.
Thank you all for the debate and support,
Dan.
That being said, the idea of veins sounds both really cool, and really cool looking.
I would suggest making some or all of the following modifications to the infestation:
1) The infestation spreads itself, without limit, at a very slow rate.
2) Cysts increase the growth rate of all of the infestation in the game, provided that it is connected, proportionately to the distance between it and the growing edge of the infestation. This may look a lot like an exponential decay curve with Growth Rate Increase up the side and distance along the bottom.
3) Light cannot travel through the infestation. This means that, as the infestation spreads overt the walls and lights in a room it will obscure them, automatically creating darkness in highly infested areas.
4) All alien structures can be built out of any infestation, including on pipes, or on the ceiling. Except for Cysts which can also be built outside of the infestation.
5) No Cysts can be built within the radius of another.
6) All alien structures are a 'Nutrient Node' for the infestation.
7) A network of 'Veins', thick, pulsing cords, grow out from each 'Nutrient Node', providing growth area to the infestation.
8) The cysts are both cheap 'Nutrient Nodes' and small resource stores, into which the bacterium deposit the gathered resources.
9) Aliens do not have or use resource extractors. Instead the infestation gives a low resource income based on the number of Cysts.
10) Independent networks of 'Veins' will link together to form a single, supper network within the entire infestation.
11) The amount of 'Nutrients' reaching an area is determined several key factors:
A) The distance, through 'Veins' only, to the nearest 'Nutrient Node'. The further away, the fewer nutrients gets to the infestation.
B) The distance from a 'Vein' to the edge of the infestation. The closer the 'Vein', the faster the infestation grows.
C) The type of 'Nutrient Node' that is feeding it. A Hive will provide much better 'Nutrients' than a Shade, which, in turn, is better than a Cyst.
D) The health of the connecting 'Veins'. The more damaged the 'Veins' the less 'Nutrients' get to the infestation further along, forcing it to stop growing and eventually retreat.
E) Breaking the connecting 'Veins' will instantly cut the 'Nutrient' supply to the infestation, killing it on mass.
F) Killing a disconnected 'Nutrient Node' will cause all of the infestation that it supports to starve and die.
12) Infestation growth rate is tied directly to the amount of nutrients that is reaching that area.
13) 'Vein' growth rate is determined by net resource income.
14) Heavy weapons fire will kill infestation. (4x standard gun damage, Exosuits, flame throwers, explosives and/or lots and lots of knifing!)
15) Allow Marines to research and use Motion Trackers. These would give off a warning bleep, frequency dependent on distance, when any nearby alien moves but only if it is drawn. A tool a bit like a welder.
16) Allow the marines to purchase Thermo-Vision Goggles. These devices would, when equipped, show only warmth; invisible walls, railings and room lights. All you will be able to see is other players, on both teams, regardless of cloak, and the slightly warm Infestation itself. The walls and other cool objects are all displayed as a featureless black, still opaque, but undetectable or identifiable.
17) Provide the aliens with a third Viel Research-able evolution trait: Cold Bloodedness, which makes an alien invisible to ThermoVision goggles but does not cloak them, silence them, or cover their movements.
Modders wanted!
Dan.