Camo currently overpowered?
Champlo0
Join Date: 2012-04-17 Member: 150617Members
Join Date: 2012-04-17 Member: 150617Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Unfair advantage</div>Camouflage is the worst upgrade in the game for making the game fun. This isn't about balance or anything, it just makes the game a hellish ######hole for marines in majority of games. Want to go attack a harvester? Good luck knowing whether or not a skulk is just waiting for you right in plain sight with camo. Want to take a room? Gotta have constant scans every 8 seconds from the commander.
Are you a terrible skulk? No worries! Just press B for free skill. Are witnessing fields of green rookies? No worries! Just evolve shade hive and drop camo! It even costs less too!
Camouflage isn't imbalanced, it just makes people's playing experience as marines the worst possible experience it could be. Even if marines end up winning, they still ######ing hate playing against camo. Camo is toxic to the gameplay experience and needs to be fixed.
<!--coloro:orange--><span style="color:orange"><!--/coloro-->edit: changed topic title/description, let's keep this civil. --Zaggy<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Are you a terrible skulk? No worries! Just press B for free skill. Are witnessing fields of green rookies? No worries! Just evolve shade hive and drop camo! It even costs less too!
Camouflage isn't imbalanced, it just makes people's playing experience as marines the worst possible experience it could be. Even if marines end up winning, they still ######ing hate playing against camo. Camo is toxic to the gameplay experience and needs to be fixed.
<!--coloro:orange--><span style="color:orange"><!--/coloro-->edit: changed topic title/description, let's keep this civil. --Zaggy<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Comments
Aliens take celerity? You better... be ready to aim better and get more damage upgrades...
Aliens take camouflage? You better be ready to truly adapt to a unique challenge that cannot be overcome solely by tech upgrades or individual skill!
People usually fear what they don't understand.
Plz nerf to like 200 HP and 50 Armor and make attack do less damage.
Shade is the worst first hive by far. If you can't see that, you probably play on the wrong servers.
That or replace camouflage with focus/scent of fear/whatever and give camouflage to the fade as a passive upgrade.
Aliens take celerity? You better... be ready to aim better and get more damage upgrades...
Aliens take camouflage? You better be ready to truly adapt to a unique challenge that cannot be overcome solely by tech upgrades or individual skill!
People usually fear what they don't understand.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So what you admit to is that camo involves no skill and is unique in the fact that its the only upgrade that involves no skill in using it.
Which makes it the only thing in the game that can't be overcome by tech upgrades or individual skill. Sounds like it should be in the game. Something that doesn't differentiate skill at all, or tech upgrades. Yup. That sounds like it fits.
Shade is the worst first hive by far. If you can't see that, you probably play on the wrong servers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Reading is the hardest task to accomplish. Please learn where I said that it wasn't good, just that it makes the game not fun at all to play. Which makes it bad for the game, regardless of whether its bad or good, it needs to be gone.
Also, you're really foolish if you think shade hive is the worst first hive.
Lion: nomnomnom
The game is called Natural Selection, the Camouflage is a line of defense for the squishy alien body. Yes it can be annoying and is a pain in the ass to counter but why isn't there someone watching your back? Are you doing a Rambo?
It's a Team game and camouflage doesn't get a skulk very far with multiple Marines unloading their rifles in to it.
Lion: nomnomnom
The game is called Natural Selection, the Camouflage is a line of defense for the squishy alien body. Yes it can be annoying and is a pain in the ass to counter but why isn't there someone watching your back? Are you doing a Rambo?
It's a Team game and camouflage doesn't get a skulk very far with multiple Marines unloading their rifles in to it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Game balance has 0 to do with game lore or setting. Lore/setting comes after game design. And it's not about why isn't there someone with me, it's about it makes this game ######ing terrible and a drudge to play. Every time I hear "they got camo" I want to just ######ing quit, even if I know I'm going to win, lose, or whatever. Any game that involves camo is one I don't want to be on marines for. It just makes the entire experience of the game so atrocious, knowing that I can do absolutely NOTHING about watching my back. May as well just never look behind me because I'm going to get killed by some camo skulks anyways. Have to wait for the commander to be able to scan for us, something that is supposed to only help the players out, but instead it is a REQUIREMENT to even fight against aliens.
Also, your lion example is terrible. Lions are not 100% invisible.
It's not broken, it's just has absolutely no place in the game. It is so drastically different from every other upgrade for aliens .
Finally, even if multiple marines shoot a skulk with camo, he's already killed one marine at least. Add one, two, or three skulks to this equation, and you have 4 marines dead immediately. So now there's 4 skulks and whatever is left of the marines. What about a bunch of marines shooting a camo skulk now? One marine going to solo 4 skulks?
A tech upgrade isn't an upgrade if you have to keep using it. That's like saying dropping an onos egg is a tech upgrade. You have to keep investing tres into it. Let me do the math for you since you seem to be inept to perform it for 3 seconds.
Camouflage Hive: 10 TRes
Veil: 5 TRes
Camoulage: 10 TRes
25 TRes total
Observatory (Base Obsv): 15 TRes
Scan: 3 TRes
Second Observatory (2nd base): 15 Tres
Third Observatory (We'll call this the forward obsv): 15 TRes
45 TRes minimum spent + 3 for every scan
Yup. Nothing wrong with that at all.
<!--coloro:orange--><span style="color:orange"><!--/coloro-->**Snip** Be nice --Zaggy<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:orange--><span style="color:orange"><!--/coloro-->**Snip** Be nice --Zaggy<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
we're also supposed to get weldable doors and vents, which is going to change the game drastically.
what's that? the game is officially post-release? we still don't have weldable vents or doors. mnkay. nothing wrong with that.
i'm voicing my opinion because the devs are atrociously slow with getting to big issues.
if it's obvious the changes are being made then all posting a new thread accomplishes is whining
Shade is the worst first hive by far. If you can't see that, you probably play on the wrong servers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
*Shade hive first is the most under utilised.
Most Alien coms get camo and maybe silence then just use the shade passive without using Ink or Hallucinations. The other two hive types are fairly easy to utilise all they offer compared to shade
Countering cloaking is not the only thing the obs is good for. Even against noncloaked units the detection on the minimap is a very big advantage for the marines on the ground. If you have obs in your forward bases, the aliens have almost no way to take them out, since their "creep up cloaked" strategy doesnt work and they lack movement and defense upgrades.
what's that? the game is officially post-release? we still don't have weldable vents or doors. mnkay. nothing wrong with that.
i'm voicing my opinion because the devs are atrociously slow with getting to big issues.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--coloro:#FFC0CB--><span style="color:#FFC0CB"><!--/coloro-->You need to be patient. The dev team is very small and cannot simply pump out big changes/fixes on a weekly basis.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--quoteo(post=2049048:date=Dec 21 2012, 04:16 AM:name=halfofaheaven)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (halfofaheaven @ Dec 21 2012, 04:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2049048"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Any half-decent comm and marine team will completely trash camo first aliens. Yes, you will initially die more than usual, but stick together, hold a few RTs and eventually their weak/slow fades and onoses will drop like flies.
Shade is the worst first hive by far. If you can't see that, you probably play on the wrong servers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Okay so what do you think the alien team is doing while you hold only a few RT's? The khamm proceeds to take the entire map. Aliens with that much res always win. Camo is by far not the worst upgrade to get.
<!--quoteo(post=2049075:date=Dec 21 2012, 04:47 AM:name=Dwavenhobble)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dwavenhobble @ Dec 21 2012, 04:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2049075"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->*Shade hive first is the most under utilised.
Most Alien coms get camo and maybe silence then just use the shade passive without using Ink or Hallucinations. The other two hive types are fairly easy to utilise all they offer compared to shade<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, no. People under-use crags and shifts as well. When was the last time you saw echo or healing wave used? Probably around the last time you saw hallucination used.
Countering cloaking is not the only thing the obs is good for. Even against noncloaked units the detection on the minimap is a very big advantage for the marines on the ground. If you have obs in your forward bases, the aliens have almost no way to take them out, since their "creep up cloaked" strategy doesnt work and they lack movement and defense upgrades.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
At present in groups I've adopted the Human meant plan. I Take point and any room I think if full of cloaked skulks I run into like a mad man while my team mates stand in the door way and hopefully kill all the Skulks who run in to try and kill me and de-cloak. It won't work forever though as someone will get wise and stop it being me being killed but my team mates getting 4-5 kills for it
Which makes it the only thing in the game that can't be overcome by tech upgrades or individual skill. Sounds like it should be in the game. Something that doesn't differentiate skill at all, or tech upgrades. Yup. That sounds like it fits.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Most people would be taken by surprise that you consider "no individual skill" and "no skill" to be the same thing. However, I have been on these forums for quite some time, and am not most people.
:) If you drop your weapons you will be even faster and the skulks might not even get you :P I do that often in turtle games: Drop all weapons, run like a madman into a hive and taunt it for fun.
This is ridiculous. How on earth will you get a 2 for 1 KPD with this mentality? You are clearly just a noob.
edit: sorry zaggy, was just reusing the old thread topic text
Also, you're really foolish if you think shade hive is the worst first hive.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can read just fine, thank you. You said camo isn't fun to play against, I said it doesn't matter as it's only bad for a few minutes until you walk all over the alien team.
I can count the times I've seen aliens win <i>because</i> of camo on exactly zero fingers. On a pub server with competent players and commanders, camo won't work unless teams are stacked in favour of the aliens or the marine comm is awful. In which case it doesn't matter what upgrades you get because you'd win with <i>any</i> upgrade path.
For all the people who disagree with this: you don't know anything about this game. Sorry to say.
Obs, on the other hand, loses its effectiveness if aliens know its there and that they are visible. Marines should still see them like normal (on screen and on the map) and still get that nice (O) reticule on them, but the alien has no idea they have a massive target on their face and that their cloak means nothing.
Want map control? Shift.
Want durability? Cara.
Want to lockdown a certain spot? Shade.
As for marines, lots of counters, if they are shading, it means theres a key location to lock, i'd get an ob there no matter what, so...... yeah sure a scan... woopidy doo. Armor 1 means your marines will survive that first bite they get off with camo, if theres a teammate around, skulk will die without a kill.
Why are people complaining anyways, you're bringing a fully automatic rifle to a knife fight. Come at me with your axe and i won't get any upgrades :P
Obs, on the other hand, loses its effectiveness if aliens know its there and that they are visible. Marines should still see them like normal (on screen and on the map) and still get that nice (O) reticule on them, but the alien has no idea they have a massive target on their face and that their cloak means nothing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I really hope that's Sarcasm as paying 15 Tres for an un armoured easy to destroy structure to that only protects a small area is a bit of a joke when for the same 15 Tres you get Camo which works all over the map, except where the obs is.
you can spot when you reach an obs easily by the blue glow you get when you de cloak, one the blue glow goes and you get the see through camo back on you know your out of obs range.
you can spot when you reach an obs easily by the blue glow you get when you de cloak, one the blue glow goes and you get the see through camo back on you know your out of obs range.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You need an ob anyways, and cloak will slow down aliens ALOT, and considering thats their biggest advantage for map control, its a noticeable draw-back. The specific change hes proposing also means that aliens would not know where exactly a hidden ob might be and that could easily cost them half their team and get them egg-locked, or lose the 2nd early hive.
I'm not sure how i feel about his suggestion, it sounds a bit overpowered on the marine side. Having cloak wear off also puts skulks off attacking certain areas solo and promotes teamwork !
I still say we need Elec RTs back in some form. This would help with cloak since you'll have an Ob at both your TPs and maybe one forward assault base (that you can recycle and move up), scanning your RTs for rebuilding/repairing is just horrible, macs are one solution i've started to use in Pubs but its not perfect.