I would say without any hesitation, that roughly 50% or more of my bullets as marine do not register
Kama_Blue
Join Date: 2012-03-13 Member: 148710Members
Join Date: 2012-03-13 Member: 148710Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Hit reg is so bad it's like all aliens have perma umbra</div>Fades, Skulks and Lerks. I don't know why, i don't know what causes it or if my bullets are somehow missing by inches. But consistently it's taking me far more than 10 bullets to kill a skulk. Averaging 30-40 bullets and sometimes the entire clip + three or four frantic pistol shots.
Killing a moving lerk with a single LMG clip? I don't think it's possible for a single marine to do with the kind of hit feedback i'm getting. I've certainly never done it. With a full clip on a moving lerk i can usually get 100 damage off, maybe 150 if he's not strafing and flying up and down to dodge me. We can say i'm just a bad shot sure, but honestly that's 15 bullets out of 50. I feel like sometimes that lerk i fired an entire clip at probably should be dead considering it's so statistically unlikely i've never hit a lerk with more than 20 bullets it's not funny
Killing a fade that's teleporting in and out and not standing still? I don't think even two marines unloading an entire clip in that fade's direction can hit him enough to kill him. I watched myself and another very skilled player spend an entire round unable to kill a fade, because we simply didn't have three or four marines that could aim and focus fire him down.
I'm not crazy, the LMG should deal 500-600 damage a clip depending on upgrades, but it doesn't deal anywhere near that much to anything but an Onos, not even once in a blue moon can a single marine kill a fade 1v1 with an lmg. If it was possible i would see it happen, a marine has just enough time to unload a clip before a fade hits three times, and they only have to hit 35 of the bullets out of 50 into the fade to kill the darn thing. But it DOESN'T happen, i don't think it's possible. But in NS1 a good marine could kill a fade that zooms in, and tries for three hits EASILY. In Ns2 the fade runs up, three hits and the rine is dead before reloading, every time, no contest, no dodging at all.
I've talked to hundreds of players and they all unanimously agree that yeah, the game is built around absolutely terrible hit registration, and players are falling back on the shotgun because the LMG becomes a worthless weapon against half the alien team. Even then the shotgun is gimicky and hits for "22" when you're aiming straight at a skulk, and hits for 200+ when you obviously miss a lerk.
Just tell me it's being looked into, or fixed, or worked on, or that i'm crazy, or that maybe i'm just really unlucky, or that you don't get it, or that some people get it and some people don't. But dear god it's infuriating, things should die when i shoot them, fades should die, lerks should die, please...
Killing a moving lerk with a single LMG clip? I don't think it's possible for a single marine to do with the kind of hit feedback i'm getting. I've certainly never done it. With a full clip on a moving lerk i can usually get 100 damage off, maybe 150 if he's not strafing and flying up and down to dodge me. We can say i'm just a bad shot sure, but honestly that's 15 bullets out of 50. I feel like sometimes that lerk i fired an entire clip at probably should be dead considering it's so statistically unlikely i've never hit a lerk with more than 20 bullets it's not funny
Killing a fade that's teleporting in and out and not standing still? I don't think even two marines unloading an entire clip in that fade's direction can hit him enough to kill him. I watched myself and another very skilled player spend an entire round unable to kill a fade, because we simply didn't have three or four marines that could aim and focus fire him down.
I'm not crazy, the LMG should deal 500-600 damage a clip depending on upgrades, but it doesn't deal anywhere near that much to anything but an Onos, not even once in a blue moon can a single marine kill a fade 1v1 with an lmg. If it was possible i would see it happen, a marine has just enough time to unload a clip before a fade hits three times, and they only have to hit 35 of the bullets out of 50 into the fade to kill the darn thing. But it DOESN'T happen, i don't think it's possible. But in NS1 a good marine could kill a fade that zooms in, and tries for three hits EASILY. In Ns2 the fade runs up, three hits and the rine is dead before reloading, every time, no contest, no dodging at all.
I've talked to hundreds of players and they all unanimously agree that yeah, the game is built around absolutely terrible hit registration, and players are falling back on the shotgun because the LMG becomes a worthless weapon against half the alien team. Even then the shotgun is gimicky and hits for "22" when you're aiming straight at a skulk, and hits for 200+ when you obviously miss a lerk.
Just tell me it's being looked into, or fixed, or worked on, or that i'm crazy, or that maybe i'm just really unlucky, or that you don't get it, or that some people get it and some people don't. But dear god it's infuriating, things should die when i shoot them, fades should die, lerks should die, please...
Comments
You can easily end up dying as fade from fat ass marine syndrome
There are issues, but the game is still very playable.
There are issues, but the game is still very playable.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Very much so, I don't think the hitreg issues are major issues just a little frustrating at times. Overall, Great game.
<!--quoteo(post=2043440:date=Dec 10 2012, 10:25 PM:name=nezz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nezz @ Dec 10 2012, 10:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2043440"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Very much so, I don't think the hitreg issues are major issues just a little frustrating at times. Overall, Great game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2043437:date=Dec 10 2012, 10:21 PM:name=Techercizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Techercizer @ Dec 10 2012, 10:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2043437"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can't say that OP doesn't have issues, because I'm not him and I'm not on his computer. What I can say is that I have no significant hit registry issues, in competitive or pubs. The game plays for me like a game with perfect hit registry.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So some people just don't have it and some do ,gotcha
<!--quoteo(post=2043441:date=Dec 10 2012, 10:31 PM:name=Ness_FrogKing)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ness_FrogKing @ Dec 10 2012, 10:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2043441"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It fell down to the 3rd page, but <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=125559" target="_blank">this</a> is what you're looking for.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah i was considering making a video to see if i could track the lost bullets frame by frame.
Outside of my one video (<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r32PiW8k8uo#t=333s" target="_blank">here</a>) I've done a bunch of other "tests" that have yet to consistently reproduce a dropped registration issue.
It exists, definitely. Is it as extreme as people would like to believe? I can't really back that either. I am the first scream "###### hit reg" when I get angry but now that I've spent sometime exploring it.... it doesn't seem that is the cause of the issue.
About ~6 hours of playtime devoted totally to making bullets miss and I've probably got 30 seconds of footage where anything negative is show (<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r32PiW8k8uo#t=333s" target="_blank">5:30</a>) and even then, they could possibly be a timing issue.
Shotguns on the other hand... Their random spread is infuriating. If a skulk is within a foot of you, there is no earthly way a shotgun does 20 damage. That's ridiculous.
If demo recording doesn't hit performance too much I'll try to get some footage to see if there is something wrong there.
I've noticed with say a 70~ ping it's pretty good, but anything around 100~ it starts to be a bit more obvious and frustrating :|
If that's a reg problem? I have no idea! Just adding my input :)
You should try Super Monday Night Combat. The hitreg is client-side, which is the best that you can ever get. If you shoot something, you will damage it fully 100% of the time.
I agree with you. But you might find it interesting that it's actually theoretically possible to kill a fade with a single LMG clip and a single pistol clip, even with no weapons upgrades. You only need to land 5 of your pistol shots too (if you have hit with 100% of your LMG bullets)
Once in a blue moon we'd actually see a marine solo a fade in NS1, and on paper it should actually be easier in NS2.
A full mg clip does 500 damange, plus another 200 from the pistol, while a fade only has 350 effective hitpoints. If it wasn't for innate regen adding another bullet worth of damage to each fade, you could actually kill two fades with lvl0 mg/pistol, assuming 100% hit rate.
<!--quoteo(post=2043455:date=Dec 11 2012, 08:11 AM:name=Gliss)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gliss @ Dec 11 2012, 08:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2043455"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't deny that there is a hitreg issue, I've experienced it myself, but it's not quite as widespread as most people would like to believe. if you slow down your videos I'm sure you'll find that most of your shots are simply missing, or it's related to the funky animations of NS2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This fits well with my experiences ingame. For the past month I've been trying to understand why it's so much harder to hit skulks now than it was before and just after release, but I haven't been able to connect it to any actual "hit reg" problem.
Instead, I believe it simply became a lot harder to reliably track skulks due to the highly erratic movement of certain skulk behaviour, caused by the combination of nearly unlimited air control and high minimum speed boost from jumping off any wall. The big walljumping revamp shortly after release seems to coincide with the time skulks became significantly harder to hit, so it seems like that is the likely culprit behind the sudden jump in tracking difficulty.
You are correct sir. I was thinking 250 damage per LMG clip, which of course is false, embarrassingly enough.
Problem with this should be that better ping wins. always.
I think hitreg is actually good in NS2. Far better than in e.g. BF3 which I played alot.
I bet that 99% of hitreg issues origin from low FPS/Server performance.
I have >60 fps constantly and I not once experianced a situation where I thought there was a hitreg issue(under the condition of having a good ping <80).
I think hitreg is actually good in NS2. Far better than in e.g. BF3 which I played alot.
I bet that 99% of hitreg issues origin from low FPS/Server performance.
I have >60 fps constantly and I not once experianced a situation where I thought there was a hitreg issue(under the condition of having a good ping <80).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, the problem is that the higher ping always wins. Sharpshooter classes can shoot you around walls and such if they're lagging but you aren't for example.
Go fade and try to kill an armor 3 marine, it's more infuriating than anything else in this game.
Instead, I believe it simply became a lot harder to reliably track skulks due to the highly erratic movement of certain skulk behaviour, caused by the combination of nearly unlimited air control and high minimum speed boost from jumping off any wall. The big walljumping revamp shortly after release seems to coincide with the time skulks became significantly harder to hit, so it seems like that is the likely culprit behind the sudden jump in tracking difficulty.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
While that might be true, it still doesn't explain shots disappearing, especailly noticeable when shooting stationary players in pub games (ie, lifeforms hitting powernodes). That also applies on moving targets, but is less noticeable; but it even can happen with extremly bad movement skulks or gorges which move in a straight line.
With NS2Stats in PCWs I observed rather ridiclous accuracy differences, ranging from 8% to 33% as marine (that is even playing on the same server vs the same team (!)), while on aliens it seems rather consistent.
Though something else that should be looked into is mouse sensitivity, as it seems to depend on fps as well. Not sure whether there is also some mouselag invovled that gives the impression of the bad hitreg, though I think it probably is a lot of these issues combined (and actual hitreg inconsistencies being one of them).
It's false, but it also shows pretty clearly you have the hitreg problem and are having serious problems making the LMG viable against a fade. Personally i can't make the shotgun deal more than 100 damage against most lifeforms.
<!--quoteo(post=2043492:date=Dec 11 2012, 02:41 AM:name=gnoarch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gnoarch @ Dec 11 2012, 02:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2043492"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Problem with this should be that better ping wins. always.
I think hitreg is actually good in NS2. Far better than in e.g. BF3 which I played alot.
I bet that 99% of hitreg issues origin from low FPS/Server performance.
I have >60 fps constantly and I not once experianced a situation where I thought there was a hitreg issue(under the condition of having a good ping <80).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I play on a <100 ping, 100 performance server, at 50+ FPS at all times. I actually think players with lower ping are getting the issue worse than players with higher ping, believe it or not.
<!--quoteo(post=2043511:date=Dec 11 2012, 03:16 AM:name=Champlo0)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Champlo0 @ Dec 11 2012, 03:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2043511"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Go fade and try to kill an armor 3 marine, it's more infuriating than anything else in this game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Three hits?
Go and try and kill a fade as an armor 3 marine. IT's not possible.
<!--quoteo(post=2043535:date=Dec 11 2012, 04:18 AM:name=Omega_K2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Omega_K2 @ Dec 11 2012, 04:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2043535"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->While that might be true, it still doesn't explain shots disappearing, especailly noticeable when shooting stationary players in pub games (ie, lifeforms hitting powernodes). That also applies on moving targets, but is less noticeable; but it even can happen with extremly bad movement skulks or gorges which move in a straight line.
With NS2Stats in PCWs I observed rather ridiclous accuracy differences, ranging from 8% to 33% as marine (that is even playing on the same server vs the same team (!)), while on aliens it seems rather consistent.
Though something else that should be looked into is mouse sensitivity, as it seems to depend on fps as well. Not sure whether there is also some mouselag invovled that gives the impression of the bad hitreg, though I think it probably is a lot of these issues combined (and actual hitreg inconsistencies being one of them).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
IT could possibly have to do with the alien hitboxes being TOO accurate and unforgiving. In the other thread with the videos there were frames where bullets passed between the legs and/or right under the curve of the belly of the skulk without a hit registering. The hits might actually be near indescipherable misses, but we can't tell because of how accurate the hitbox is. We as humans can't track all four legs of a skulk at all time or something.
This
I've lost count of the number of times I've been killed by high ping players after I'm miles around a corner that they absolutely definitely can not see around. As a low pinger, you're at the disadvantage of thinking they aren't shooting at you: in reality, they aren't shooting at you yet, because they don't see you yet. That assumption that because they're not shooting, they're not shooting, is false. That's what gets me killed more often than not!!
Roo
The second frustrating thing is how you can turn a corner, go halfway down the hall, and then suddenly die "through the wall".
My ping is typically 15-30 in those cases, as well.
Not to mention these are my specs.
i7 2670qm 2.2 ghz snd Gen
6gb ram
Geforce GT 555m
What helps a bit is lowering my resolution to awful 800x600 and turning off the AA and all the rest.
And dont even think about getting that fancy infestation going on, my pc almost choked when they implemented that.
That said, shoot 25ms in front of where the skulk is (visually) and you'll land every bullet. I land a ton of my bullets as marine. Starting to get hack accusations again, actually.