Would it be more fair if camo could be heard?
sharnrock
Join Date: 2012-11-02 Member: 166084Members
Join Date: 2012-11-02 Member: 166084Members
A lot of people think camo is a little OP at the moment. Do you think it would be more fair if you could hear, maybe not at full volume, the pitter patter of skulk feet? I mean, you still can't see them at all as they move, but it just seems like such a huge advantage if the first time you notice a skulk is when your knee is gone.
Comments
Camo is a huge risk for aliens. . .
Once marines find out they have it all they need to do is get into one giant ball and go attack the hive for an egg lock
2 Scans is usually all that is needed and any extra money goes to a forward armory and mines
Personally i'd like to see scan energy come back first.
Personally i'd like to see scan energy come back first.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
agreed
Scans completely shut down camo making it useless. Just ask comm for a scan every now and then if he's not doing it without being asked.
Sometimes I think it would be easier to put socks on a cat.
I think just knowing a skulk is near, makes it a little bit better. Rather than all of a sudden: chomp, chomp, ch dead. It wouldn't give away their position, but at least give you a chance to spray some bullets or turn around. Meh... just an idea.
As for cloak footstep sounds. It kinda ruins the surprise of sneaking up on somebody. You shouldn't know exactly when you have to request a scan - it should be up to the comm to do it. Also, a good player could just shoot the ground area in the direction where the sound is coming from (although I guess they could be on the ceiling). I don't think cloaking itself is OP anyway (at least, it's effect on the on-the-ground combat). However, it has too much on effect on the marine economy to scan enough to effectively counter it (the extra micro you have to do is enough without being drained of res all the time). Scanning should just revert back to energy, and have a slow regeneration and no more than double the cost of a scan in the energy pool. Or just no energy and a long cooldown. That way you can't spam it with one obs, and still have to spend res to invest in several observatories if you want to scan frequently (this is much preferable to forcing the marines to spend 3 res all the time to pick up sneaky skulks).
I feel that would be redundant. Seeing as you already have teammates that you can accomplish the same thing with. It also wouldn't make a lot of since that they could produce sound across a room like that.
That's a cool idea.
<!--quoteo(post=2038342:date=Dec 1 2012, 05:17 PM:name=MaximumSquid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MaximumSquid @ Dec 1 2012, 05:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2038342"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><u><b>sharnrock:</b></u>
Camo is a huge risk for aliens. . .
Once marines find out they have it all they need to do is get into one giant ball and go attack the hive for an egg lock
2 Scans is usually all that is needed and any extra money goes to a forward armory and mines<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Where do you people keep coming from. Please go argue in the "how to counter camo thread", all of these have already been covered.
I'll point one thing out anyway - so once marines find out aliens have camo they just all go to hive and win? Oh yeah? So, basically you're saying, that if aliens don't get an upgrade within the 1st minute, marines just walk into hive and win? How come that isn't happening? BECAUSE SKULKS AREN'T USELESS WITHOUT AN UPGRADE!
Yours truly: Winning every game with camo.
I guess to even it out aliens should basically be able to walk a bit faster with camo active, while still being able to press the movement modifier to be able to sneak.
Personally i'd like to see scan energy come back first.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This wouldn't solve the problem most players have with camo. It's not a big deal for the comm to scan more when camo comes out. The problem in pubs, is many commanders just don't see scanning as part of their responsibility in any situation, even when camo is out. Or they scan in 5 places at once, realize they've spent 15 res, and then say to themselves "scanning is bad, they'll just have to manage without it".
The problem is, in pubs there's often very bad commanders, and a very bad commander will make camo overpowered. And therefor pub players will complain about it.
If camo is going to be "fixed" around pub balance, it needs to be less overpowered and less scary when the commander is terrible. and be less absolutely worthless and more scary when the commander is quite good.
I guess to even it out aliens should basically be able to walk a bit faster with camo active, while still being able to press the movement modifier to be able to sneak.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So basically... a straight camo buff?
The problem is, in pubs there's often very bad commanders, and a very bad commander will make camo overpowered. And therefor pub players will complain about it.
If camo is going to be "fixed" around pub balance, it needs to be less overpowered and less scary when the commander is terrible. and be less absolutely worthless and more scary when the commander is quite good.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
3 tres per scan, lasts 10sec. So for a marine to cross a map with scans, that's like, what, 6-8 scans? +20 res just to move around, not to mention Skulks are still skulks even if they're scanned. "many commanders" no, ALL commanders, I've yet to see a single commander pulling off a scan-spam. (If you have to scan every room I'm calling it a spam, if you don't, marines die in that room you don't scan.)
I'll be waiting for that game where marines win with balanced teams vs. camo because of scanning. (Not gonna happen lol!)
I'll be waiting for that game where marines win with balanced teams vs. camo because of scanning. (Not gonna happen lol!)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's because you don't scan spam. You scan only areas where scan is needed. You exploit the fact that when an area is scanned, it will be at least 30 seconds before aliens can establish a new ambush in that area. You need a maximum of 4 scans to cross most maps completely, and once marines have crossed a map a single time, a phase gate is set up and they never have to actively pass that passage again. The only thing camo counters is the ability to easily rambo, and rambo marines almost never pay for themselves anyways, so why should the commander waste scans on them?
I have both seen camo successfully countered by a good commander many times, and I have successfully done it myself many times. This isn't just theory craft. If the commander is on his game (which really just means "is not terrible" scanning is not hard) then camo is significantly weaker than any other chamber opening. Aliens lose their ability both to be directly agressive, and to be directly defensive. The only thing they are objectively better at is harassment (which can be EXTREMELY annoying if used correctly, but isn't usually enough to completely tilt the game in the aliens favor)
Read what I wrote again, it is clearly not a buff. As long as marines can still move faster than camo aliens it's all good. But if they make a sound you can easily tell your comm to scan. They should still be able to set up proper ambushes though, that doesn't change.
Also, I'm not talking about crazy speeds, a slight increase for when you're audible should suffice.
I have both seen camo successfully countered by a good commander many times, and I have successfully done it myself many times. This isn't just theory craft. If the commander is on his game (which really just means "is not terrible" scanning is not hard) then camo is significantly weaker than any other chamber opening. Aliens lose their ability both to be directly agressive, and to be directly defensive. The only thing they are objectively better at is harassment (which can be EXTREMELY annoying if used correctly, but isn't usually enough to completely tilt the game in the aliens favor)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd love to play those games where marines cross the entire map in 40 seconds and where Skulks take 20 seconds to sneak through the width of a scan - also assuming a scan causes all skulks to have a heart-attack thus not impeding marines at all.
But if you're winning all camo games as marine and losing all camo games as skulks, gratz. Does not happen on EU servers. Ever. I guess all we have is bad comms then.
Also, I'm not talking about crazy speeds, a slight increase for when you're audible should suffice.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2038491:date=Dec 1 2012, 03:18 PM:name=wiry)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wiry @ Dec 1 2012, 03:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2038491"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think that camo skulks should be heard. There is a silence upgrade and there is a camo upgrade, why should camo give you both?
I guess to even it out aliens should basically be able to walk a bit faster with camo active, while still being able to press the movement modifier to be able to sneak.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you want aliens to be able to sneak around camouflaged and silent, like they can now, except now they can also choose to move quickly with camo and make noise.
no because if the alien doesnt walk, then they are uncloaked unless they are within the range of a shade. this is how it was in ns1, and it was balanced just fine
But if you're winning all camo games as marine and losing all camo games as skulks, gratz. Does not happen on EU servers. Ever. I guess all we have is bad comms then.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Skulks can still run if they like, they don't have to sneak everwhere as soon as the camo upgrade is up, and marines can still be bad, you never win all games of one type and lose all games of another. But it requires a more alien stacked team to win a game starting camo if the marine commander is decent than if the alien comm had started with shift or craig. The better the marines and the comm get, the worse shade first gets relative to the other 2 chambers.
I disagree.
And I'm going to be proven right in the near future when camo gets nerfed.
And I'm going to be proven right in the near future when camo gets nerfed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I doubt camo will get nerfed, there's nothing to really nerf considering how bad it is.