<!--quoteo(post=2037422:date=Nov 29 2012, 12:37 PM:name=lumina)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lumina @ Nov 29 2012, 12:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037422"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You can believe whatever you want. I will just continue laughing at the noobs who need an exploit put back in the game because they need their crutch.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> this is not necessarily about putting an exploit in a game (mostly because it ceases to be an exploit once the developers decide to officially support it like in NS1), more like putting skill movement in a game where there is none
I'm sure this is a mirror of a post from 3-4 pages ago but whatever
can there be mod action when someone blatantly trolls in a thread that has good discussion
<!--quoteo(post=2037421:date=Nov 29 2012, 02:37 PM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Swiftspear @ Nov 29 2012, 02:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037421"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Apparently the skill is in being patient with you. Spamming the jump button doesn't bunnyhop for you any more than lifting the parking break drives the car for you. It's one of many components in a complex action.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, explain this complex action then. I am interested in hearing how turning your mouse is really this complex task that takes years to perfect.
Counter-strike was one of the first mods, and very accessible. It was also put on steam, which increased its popularity a lot, although I can understand you would've been a bit young to remember that.
<!--quoteo(post=2037427:date=Nov 29 2012, 12:43 PM:name=lumina)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lumina @ Nov 29 2012, 12:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037427"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah, explain this complex action then. I am interested in hearing how turning your mouse is really this complex task that takes years to perfect.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> why should anyone bother explaining something that's been covered for 7 pages for you to just blatantly ignore again
<!--quoteo(post=2037428:date=Nov 29 2012, 02:43 PM:name=Toothy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Toothy @ Nov 29 2012, 02:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037428"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Counter-strike was one of the first mods, and very accessible. It was also put on steam, which increased its popularity a lot, although I can understand you would've been a bit young to remember that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Umm, cs was huge well before Steam was even a thing. I was clearly playing well before you.
<ul></li></ul><!--quoteo(post=2037430:date=Nov 29 2012, 02:48 PM:name=Gliss)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gliss @ Nov 29 2012, 02:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037430"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->why should anyone bother explaining something that's been covered for 7 pages for you to just blatantly ignore again<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Because the supporters are talking out both sides of their mouth. I say people use scripts. The reply is that it is impossible to script, but people use scripts and mouse wheel binds. How do you not see the stupidity as you call me a troll? These posters have only proven my point. They don't use their skills for this "skill based movement". They use scripts or mouse wheel binds. Having to turn the mouse on your own is a given. Otherwise you would need a pretty extensive script for it to know exactly where you are going... That doesn't take much skill. You can't even do it on your own.
<!--quoteo(post=2037436:date=Nov 29 2012, 12:57 PM:name=lumina)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lumina @ Nov 29 2012, 12:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037436"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Because the supporters are talking out both sides of their mouth. I say people use scripts. The reply is that it is impossible to script, but people use scripts and mouse wheel binds. How do you not see the stupidity as you call me a troll? These posters have only proven my point. They don't use their skills for this "skill based movement". They use scripts or mouse wheel binds. Having to turn the mouse on your own is a given. Otherwise you would need a pretty extensive script for it to know exactly where you are going... That doesn't take much skill. You can't even do it on your own.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> properly implemented bunnyhopping (pogo stick jumping) solves this (any id game, dystopia, fortress forever, serious sam, etc)
walljumping is already plagued with the same issue, bunnyhopping is no different
kzmod was a game entirely focused on movement so there really wasn't an issue with binding mousewheel, however it's obvious why it's an issue in a game with as many binds as NS2
walljumping is already plagued with the same issue, bunnyhopping is no different
kzmod was a game entirely focused on movement so there really wasn't an issue with binding mousewheel, however it's obvious why it's an issue in a game with as many binds as NS2<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wouldn't be opposed to skill based movement. This was a few pages ago now, but I was very specific in that I just don't like the old half life strafe jumping/bunny hopping for this game(or any newer games). I think the wall jumping is good and could probably be improved. It should be something that players do on their own, without scripts or mouse wheel binds.
Did you ignore the part in this thread, where its been said probably 50+ times, no one wants to make bunnyhopping (or whatever skilled mechanic could/would get implemented) require a script or macro. Queued jumping like Quake removes that requirement easily, and doesnt decrease the skill requirement.
The scripts used in NS1 simply helped you spam jump commands, to remove the timing. That did NOTHING to lower the skill cap, someone that was bad at bunnyhopping wouldnt be any better just because they used the script. It simply made it easier to time, which everyone agrees is something that is GOOD, and should be done on any system implemented in NS2. People really need to get past the point of scripts/macros and how they think that people pressed one button and bunnyhopped along full speed as an argument against it, it has no merit/validity.
<!--quoteo(post=2037445:date=Nov 30 2012, 08:11 AM:name=lumina)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lumina @ Nov 30 2012, 08:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037445"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I wouldn't be opposed to skill based movement. This was a few pages ago now, but I was very specific in that I just don't like the old half life strafe jumping/bunny hopping for this game(or any newer games). I think the wall jumping is good and could probably be improved. It should be something that players do on their own, without scripts or mouse wheel binds.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> So you don't like bhop/strafe jump because it doesn't take any skill? I don't think i've heard this one before. Also, people have been kind enough to reply to your scripting issue. If you want to take this discussion seriously, i suggest playing something like ns2c and seeing how they handle repeated jumping without compromising bhop.
Reading through the thread, it seems like those who are anti-bhop arn't really against the mechanic as much as they are against players having an inaccessible "unfair advantages". This usually means they also don't understand bhop other than from observing opposing players kill them with it, which usually is the root of the immersive arguement i think.
To all anti-bhop, I recommend keeping an open mind. More experienced players know how fun bhop is, and some are dedicated to bringing it to you by making it more accessible (see ns2c for an example for how this is possible).
How about wiggle walk? Now that got tiring on your fingers but I always preferred it to bunny hopping b/c it usually moved you almost as fast but with much less complexity. If the goal is to add another movement ability that requires skill to use but is not crazy than add wiggle walk and that the developers can directly cap the speed gain for it.
<!--quoteo(post=2037457:date=Nov 29 2012, 01:31 PM:name=ZEROibis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ZEROibis @ Nov 29 2012, 01:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037457"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How about wiggle walk? Now that got tiring on your fingers but I always preferred it to bunny hopping b/c it usually moved you almost as fast but with much less complexity. If the goal is to add another movement ability that requires skill to use but is not crazy than add wiggle walk and that the developers can directly cap the speed gain for it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> lol seriously?
<!--quoteo(post=2037451:date=Nov 29 2012, 03:23 PM:name=xDragon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xDragon @ Nov 29 2012, 03:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037451"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Did you ignore the part in this thread, where its been said probably 50+ times, no one wants to make bunnyhopping (or whatever skilled mechanic could/would get implemented) require a script or macro. Queued jumping like Quake removes that requirement easily, and doesnt decrease the skill requirement.
The scripts used in NS1 simply helped you spam jump commands, to remove the timing. That did NOTHING to lower the skill cap, someone that was bad at bunnyhopping wouldnt be any better just because they used the script. It simply made it easier to time, which everyone agrees is something that is GOOD, and should be done on any system implemented in NS2. People really need to get past the point of scripts/macros and how they think that people pressed one button and bunnyhopped along full speed as an argument against it, it has no merit/validity.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you bunny hopped everywhere without a script or mouse wheel bind? If you didn't, your post doesn't make sense. I was pretty clear in my post. Why are people arguing with me if they agree?
It was extremely easy with the script. It wasn't some skill that took a ton of time to master.
So is it that you just want to strafe in the air? Why? They have a non script bunny hop in the game. It is called wall jumping.
<!--quoteo(post=2037468:date=Nov 29 2012, 01:38 PM:name=lumina)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lumina @ Nov 29 2012, 01:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037468"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So you bunny hopped everywhere without a script or mouse wheel bind? If you did, your post doesn't make sense. I was pretty clear in my post. Why are people arguing with me if they agree?
It was extremely easy with the script. It wasn't some skill that took a ton of time to master.
So is it that you just want to strafe in the air? Why? They have a non script bunny hop in the game. It is called wall jumping.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> "it was extremely easy" I would love to see you accomplish these
you can't gain speed from strafing in the air in ns2, walljumping takes an hour to master and you're already the best you can be at it. it's not skill based
<!--quoteo(post=2037436:date=Nov 29 2012, 04:57 PM:name=lumina)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lumina @ Nov 29 2012, 04:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037436"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><ul></li></ul> Because the supporters are talking out both sides of their mouth. I say people use scripts. The reply is that it is impossible to script, but people use scripts and mouse wheel binds. How do you not see the stupidity as you call me a troll? These posters have only proven my point. They don't use their skills for this "skill based movement". They use scripts or mouse wheel binds. Having to turn the mouse on your own is a given. Otherwise you would need a pretty extensive script for it to know exactly where you are going... That doesn't take much skill. You can't even do it on your own.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> "Turning the mouse" consists of cursor path, speed of turning, consistency of turning speed, and turn angle, maybe more I don't know, but timing a button press is the more intricate and skillful action?
<!--quoteo(post=2037484:date=Nov 29 2012, 04:08 PM:name=DON_MAC)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DON_MAC @ Nov 29 2012, 04:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037484"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"Turning the mouse" consists of cursor path, speed of turning, consistency of turning speed, and turn angle, maybe more I don't know, but timing a button press is the more intricate and skillful action?
It seems to be the part that requires skill when everyone is trying to find workarounds like scripts and mouse wheel binds. Did you do it without a script or mouse wheel bind? Can you prove this? If you couldn't, it is pretty silly to call that the easy part.
There is no way to script bhop or strafejump to make you better at it than people who are good at it. The only change needed to make it accessible is being able to hold down spacebar to jump continuously, and that would get rid of scripting altogether on any level of play.
<!--quoteo(post=2037491:date=Nov 29 2012, 02:19 PM:name=lumina)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lumina @ Nov 29 2012, 02:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037491"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It seems to be the part that requires skill when everyone is trying to find workarounds like scripts and mouse wheel binds. Did you do it without a script or mouse wheel bind? Can you prove this? If you couldn't, it is pretty silly to call that the easy part.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> properly implemented bunnyhopping (pogo stick jumping) solves this
i think the problem can be solved without bunnyhopping. i don't think kharaa classes being an alien pepe le pew is exactly a great thing to strive for. there was a build where walljumping was pretty decent, in that you could get pretty good speeds with good timing, but you had very little air control and your path was pretty much set once you left the wall. i don't recall which build it was, but it was shortly changed to something else. instead of reverting walljumping to that, i'd like to see crouch-jumping implemented for skulks, wherein crouching slows your movement but pressing jump while crouching gives you a speed boost with very little air control ala old-style walljump, with more speed awarded for timing the crouch correctly (i.e. you'd have like a 1s window like the old energy storage mechanism).
i think the combination of current walljumping physics (where you can convert downward movement into forward speed) and crouch-jumping where you can get additional speed at the cost of a temporary slowdown would bring some decent depth to the movement system, where the focus isn't about tapping space bar over and over, but rather combining the different movement mechanics in interesting ways and with interesting timings.
The only constructive thing that can come from this thread is if someone suggests ideas for what they would like.
The thread gets messy when the <b>people</b><!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><sup>*FTFY, learn to be nicer - Angelusz*</sup><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> from 1995 come in and want some bugged half-life physics re-coded onto a different engine like its still relevant.
<!--quoteo(post=2037525:date=Nov 29 2012, 05:08 PM:name=hus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hus @ Nov 29 2012, 05:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037525"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The only constructive thing that can come from this thread is if someone suggests ideas for what they would like.
The thread gets messy when the retards from 1995 come in and want some bugged half-life physics re-coded onto a different engine like its still relevant.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yep, great way to get a conversation flowing is call people retards for expressing what they liked in previous games movement wise let alone the prequel to the game at hand.
I love BHop. I relearned to jump with my mousewheel just so i could start my BHop learning journey. Imo it was fun to do, watch, and strive to get better at. There was just something awesome to me about getting increased speeds by NOT pressing the +forward key. Was it hard to learn? Yes. Hard to find out about if you were new? Yes. Was is unintuitive? Yes. But all of these things could be fixed easily. Why reinvent the wheel or restrict you skill based movement to walls when the floor is everywhere.
Lumina, please actually now how to BHop in NS1 before saying it wouldnt work in NS2. To argue other wise is just ridiculous.
<!--quoteo(post=2037541:date=Nov 30 2012, 10:32 AM:name=RisingSun)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RisingSun @ Nov 30 2012, 10:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037541"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yep, great way to get a conversation flowing is call people retards for expressing what they liked in previous games movement wise let alone the prequel to the game at hand.
I love BHop. I relearned to jump with my mousewheel just so i could start my BHop learning journey. Imo it was fun to do, watch, and strive to get better at. There was just something awesome to me about getting increased speeds by NOT pressing the +forward key. Was it hard to learn? Yes. Hard to find out about if you were new? Yes. Was is unintuitive? Yes. But all of these things could be fixed easily. Why reinvent the wheel or restrict you skill based movement to walls when the floor is everywhere.
Lumina, please actually now how to BHop in NS1 before saying it wouldnt work in NS2. To argue other wise is just ridiculous.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes. Put up a wall to new players. Exactly what we need.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><sup>*Learn to be nicer - Angelusz*</sup><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Time to move on from the horse and cart mate. Life in the good old days changes from time to time.
Glad you have decided to come post in this thread with tons of negativity, how about you stop posting here and leave this discussion to people with valid points and arguments, and not just insults.
What i would like to see from a Skill based movement:
- Not restricted to using walls only but any surface you can bounce off of. - A method of maintaining/increasing your speed divorced from surface choice. (Meaning not having to always restart from a wall to gain speed again.) This should also be a pattern of some sort to be highly predictable to allow for a downside of speed. - allow speeds to have a generous threshold to be advantageous in maintaining and increasing vanilla speed. If you only go 1 point faster than default what is the point. - limit it to skulks and gorges. Possibly fades. - the method should be more than just where you start from or/and jump timings to allow for depth.
<!--quoteo(post=2037555:date=Nov 30 2012, 10:53 AM:name=xDragon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xDragon @ Nov 30 2012, 10:53 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037555"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Glad you have decided to come post in this thread with tons of negativity, how about you stop posting here and leave this discussion to people with valid points and arguments, and not just insults.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry but it gets boring listening to a vocal bunch of diehards who flogged a free game for ten years trying to tell UWE to include some legacy system that appeals to the 1%.
UWE is not a charity organisation making a game to appeal solely to the 200 people who kept the NS1 community alive. They need to make money and they need to attract new comers as well as retain old. Bunnyhopping is not appealing to new players no matter what spin you put on it.
<!--quoteo(post=2037561:date=Nov 29 2012, 05:07 PM:name=RisingSun)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RisingSun @ Nov 29 2012, 05:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037561"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What i would like to see from a Skill based movement:
- Not restricted to using walls only but any surface you can bounce off of. - A method of maintaining/increasing your speed divorced from surface choice. (Meaning not having to always restart from a wall to gain speed again.) This should also be a pattern of some sort to be highly predictable to allow for a downside of speed. - allow speeds to have a generous threshold to be advantageous in maintaining and increasing vanilla speed. If you only go 1 point faster than default what is the point. - limit it to skulks and gorges. Possibly fades. - the method should be more than just where you start from or/and jump timings to allow for depth.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Honestly, I'd like it restricted to just the skulk. Personally, I am fine with the idea of walljump but it is a bit too limiting. One way to free it up without completely abandoning it to the old mechanics is to allow strafe jumping in between walljumps to maintain your speed (as it stands now you lose too much speed). The entire purpose of the mechanic as we have it is to get more skulks up off the ground. Allowing speed gains without the walls would just be putting the entire idea in the trash bin, and some may say that is where it belongs. Effectively you could have a system where walljumps increase your speed, and you can perform a hop in between without losing what you've gained to reach the next wall opening up some more possibilities. As we have it right now there are some locations where the mechanic works better than others which leads to inconsistencies in skulking and something along these lines would loosen it up and allow the system to be more flexible. This would need to come with changes to air acceleration and air control however to be a viable alternative.
My feels, here they are.
<!--quoteo(post=2037573:date=Nov 29 2012, 05:26 PM:name=hus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hus @ Nov 29 2012, 05:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037573"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sorry but it gets boring listening to a vocal bunch of diehards who flogged a free game for ten years trying to tell UWE to include some legacy system that appeals to the 1%.
UWE is not a charity organisation making a game to appeal solely to the 200 people who kept the NS1 community alive. They need to make money and they need to attract new comers as well as retain old.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He was more pointing out your attitude. It is okay to disagree but you have descended into ad hominem attacks which adds nothing to the discussion but an inflammatory nature.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Bunnyhopping is not appealing to <b>me</b> no matter what spin you put on it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2037573:date=Nov 29 2012, 06:26 PM:name=hus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hus @ Nov 29 2012, 06:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037573"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sorry but it gets boring listening to a vocal bunch of diehards who flogged a free game for ten years trying to tell UWE to include some legacy system that appeals to the 1%.
UWE is not a charity organisation making a game to appeal solely to the 200 people who kept the NS1 community alive. They need to make money and they need to attract new comers as well as retain old. Bunnyhopping is not appealing to new players no matter what spin you put on it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Because you represent their best interest? You alone know what all the new players think?
You also discredit those who have stuck behind UWE for 8+ years? Do you have numbers to support you 1% claim? Who do you think will be playing this game in 5+ years? The people you are talking so disrespectfully too have already proved their loyalty twice over if they also have black armor like most of us "diehards" do which allowed for NS2's development to continue instead of being hastily released due to lack of funding.
Who are you again and why should your opinion matter?
<!--quoteo(post=2037574:date=Nov 29 2012, 06:30 PM:name=Industry)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Industry @ Nov 29 2012, 06:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037574"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Honestly, I'd like it restricted to just the skulk. Personally, I am fine with the idea of walljump but it is a bit too limiting. One way to free it up without completely abandoning it to the old mechanics is to allow strafe jumping in between walljumps to maintain your speed (as it stands now you lose too much speed). The entire purpose of the mechanic as we have it is to get more skulks up off the ground. Allowing speed gains without the walls would just be putting the entire idea in the trash bin, and some may say that is where it belongs. Effectively you could have a system where walljumps increase your speed, and you can perform a hop in between without losing what you've gained to reach the next wall opening up some more possibilities. As we have it right now there are some locations where the mechanic works better than others which leads to inconsistencies in skulking and something along these lines would loosen it up and allow the system to be more flexible. This would need to come with changes to air acceleration and air control however to be a viable alternative.
My feels, here they are.
He was more pointing out your attitude. It is okay to disagree but you have descended into ad hominem attacks which adds nothing to the discussion but an inflammatory nature.
Fixed that for you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Good thinking. If the wall mechanic stays, props could be added in walless areas to help it out, i just truly hate that built in constraint.
Comments
this is not necessarily about putting an exploit in a game (mostly because it ceases to be an exploit once the developers decide to officially support it like in NS1), more like putting skill movement in a game where there is none
I'm sure this is a mirror of a post from 3-4 pages ago but whatever
can there be mod action when someone blatantly trolls in a thread that has good discussion
Yeah, explain this complex action then. I am interested in hearing how turning your mouse is really this complex task that takes years to perfect.
why should anyone bother explaining something that's been covered for 7 pages for you to just blatantly ignore again
Umm, cs was huge well before Steam was even a thing. I was clearly playing well before you.
Because the supporters are talking out both sides of their mouth. I say people use scripts. The reply is that it is impossible to script, but people use scripts and mouse wheel binds. How do you not see the stupidity as you call me a troll? These posters have only proven my point. They don't use their skills for this "skill based movement". They use scripts or mouse wheel binds. Having to turn the mouse on your own is a given. Otherwise you would need a pretty extensive script for it to know exactly where you are going... That doesn't take much skill. You can't even do it on your own.
properly implemented bunnyhopping (pogo stick jumping) solves this (any id game, dystopia, fortress forever, serious sam, etc)
walljumping is already plagued with the same issue, bunnyhopping is no different
kzmod was a game entirely focused on movement so there really wasn't an issue with binding mousewheel, however it's obvious why it's an issue in a game with as many binds as NS2
walljumping is already plagued with the same issue, bunnyhopping is no different
kzmod was a game entirely focused on movement so there really wasn't an issue with binding mousewheel, however it's obvious why it's an issue in a game with as many binds as NS2<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wouldn't be opposed to skill based movement. This was a few pages ago now, but I was very specific in that I just don't like the old half life strafe jumping/bunny hopping for this game(or any newer games). I think the wall jumping is good and could probably be improved. It should be something that players do on their own, without scripts or mouse wheel binds.
The scripts used in NS1 simply helped you spam jump commands, to remove the timing. That did NOTHING to lower the skill cap, someone that was bad at bunnyhopping wouldnt be any better just because they used the script. It simply made it easier to time, which everyone agrees is something that is GOOD, and should be done on any system implemented in NS2. People really need to get past the point of scripts/macros and how they think that people pressed one button and bunnyhopped along full speed as an argument against it, it has no merit/validity.
So you don't like bhop/strafe jump because it doesn't take any skill? I don't think i've heard this one before. Also, people have been kind enough to reply to your scripting issue. If you want to take this discussion seriously, i suggest playing something like ns2c and seeing how they handle repeated jumping without compromising bhop.
Reading through the thread, it seems like those who are anti-bhop arn't really against the mechanic as much as they are against players having an inaccessible "unfair advantages". This usually means they also don't understand bhop other than from observing opposing players kill them with it, which usually is the root of the immersive arguement i think.
To all anti-bhop, I recommend keeping an open mind. More experienced players know how fun bhop is, and some are dedicated to bringing it to you by making it more accessible (see ns2c for an example for how this is possible).
its how much to turn the mouse under different
circumstances
lol seriously?
The scripts used in NS1 simply helped you spam jump commands, to remove the timing. That did NOTHING to lower the skill cap, someone that was bad at bunnyhopping wouldnt be any better just because they used the script. It simply made it easier to time, which everyone agrees is something that is GOOD, and should be done on any system implemented in NS2. People really need to get past the point of scripts/macros and how they think that people pressed one button and bunnyhopped along full speed as an argument against it, it has no merit/validity.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you bunny hopped everywhere without a script or mouse wheel bind? If you didn't, your post doesn't make sense. I was pretty clear in my post. Why are people arguing with me if they agree?
It was extremely easy with the script. It wasn't some skill that took a ton of time to master.
So is it that you just want to strafe in the air? Why? They have a non script bunny hop in the game. It is called wall jumping.
It was extremely easy with the script. It wasn't some skill that took a ton of time to master.
So is it that you just want to strafe in the air? Why? They have a non script bunny hop in the game. It is called wall jumping.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
"it was extremely easy" I would love to see you accomplish these
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2aIk3e1kPs" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2aIk3e1kPs</a>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_yKK7uv-Uw" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_yKK7uv-Uw</a>
you can't gain speed from strafing in the air in ns2, walljumping takes an hour to master and you're already the best you can be at it. it's not skill based
Honestly, wiggle walk was one of the things I loved about ns1, it has been heard to learn to stop trying to do it.
Because the supporters are talking out both sides of their mouth. I say people use scripts. The reply is that it is impossible to script, but people use scripts and mouse wheel binds. How do you not see the stupidity as you call me a troll? These posters have only proven my point. They don't use their skills for this "skill based movement". They use scripts or mouse wheel binds. Having to turn the mouse on your own is a given. Otherwise you would need a pretty extensive script for it to know exactly where you are going... That doesn't take much skill. You can't even do it on your own.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
"Turning the mouse" consists of cursor path, speed of turning, consistency of turning speed, and turn angle, maybe more I don't know, but timing a button press is the more intricate and skillful action?
Dunning–Kruger effect? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Dunning–Kruger effect? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It seems to be the part that requires skill when everyone is trying to find workarounds like scripts and mouse wheel binds. Did you do it without a script or mouse wheel bind? Can you prove this? If you couldn't, it is pretty silly to call that the easy part.
properly implemented bunnyhopping (pogo stick jumping) solves this
i think the combination of current walljumping physics (where you can convert downward movement into forward speed) and crouch-jumping where you can get additional speed at the cost of a temporary slowdown would bring some decent depth to the movement system, where the focus isn't about tapping space bar over and over, but rather combining the different movement mechanics in interesting ways and with interesting timings.
also i'd like to see leap do damage again.
The thread gets messy when the <b>people</b><!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><sup>*FTFY, learn to be nicer - Angelusz*</sup><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> from 1995 come in and want some bugged half-life physics re-coded onto a different engine like its still relevant.
The thread gets messy when the retards from 1995 come in and want some bugged half-life physics re-coded onto a different engine like its still relevant.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yep, great way to get a conversation flowing is call people retards for expressing what they liked in previous games movement wise let alone the prequel to the game at hand.
I love BHop. I relearned to jump with my mousewheel just so i could start my BHop learning journey. Imo it was fun to do, watch, and strive to get better at. There was just something awesome to me about getting increased speeds by NOT pressing the +forward key. Was it hard to learn? Yes. Hard to find out about if you were new? Yes. Was is unintuitive? Yes. But all of these things could be fixed easily. Why reinvent the wheel or restrict you skill based movement to walls when the floor is everywhere.
Lumina, please actually now how to BHop in NS1 before saying it wouldnt work in NS2. To argue other wise is just ridiculous.
I love BHop. I relearned to jump with my mousewheel just so i could start my BHop learning journey. Imo it was fun to do, watch, and strive to get better at. There was just something awesome to me about getting increased speeds by NOT pressing the +forward key. Was it hard to learn? Yes. Hard to find out about if you were new? Yes. Was is unintuitive? Yes. But all of these things could be fixed easily. Why reinvent the wheel or restrict you skill based movement to walls when the floor is everywhere.
Lumina, please actually now how to BHop in NS1 before saying it wouldnt work in NS2. To argue other wise is just ridiculous.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes. Put up a wall to new players. Exactly what we need.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><sup>*Learn to be nicer - Angelusz*</sup><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Time to move on from the horse and cart mate. Life in the good old days changes from time to time.
- Not restricted to using walls only but any surface you can bounce off of.
- A method of maintaining/increasing your speed divorced from surface choice. (Meaning not having to always restart from a wall to gain speed again.) This should also be a pattern of some sort to be highly predictable to allow for a downside of speed.
- allow speeds to have a generous threshold to be advantageous in maintaining and increasing vanilla speed. If you only go 1 point faster than default what is the point.
- limit it to skulks and gorges. Possibly fades.
- the method should be more than just where you start from or/and jump timings to allow for depth.
Sorry but it gets boring listening to a vocal bunch of diehards who flogged a free game for ten years trying to tell UWE to include some legacy system that appeals to the 1%.
UWE is not a charity organisation making a game to appeal solely to the 200 people who kept the NS1 community alive. They need to make money and they need to attract new comers as well as retain old.
Bunnyhopping is not appealing to new players no matter what spin you put on it.
- Not restricted to using walls only but any surface you can bounce off of.
- A method of maintaining/increasing your speed divorced from surface choice. (Meaning not having to always restart from a wall to gain speed again.) This should also be a pattern of some sort to be highly predictable to allow for a downside of speed.
- allow speeds to have a generous threshold to be advantageous in maintaining and increasing vanilla speed. If you only go 1 point faster than default what is the point.
- limit it to skulks and gorges. Possibly fades.
- the method should be more than just where you start from or/and jump timings to allow for depth.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Honestly, I'd like it restricted to just the skulk. Personally, I am fine with the idea of walljump but it is a bit too limiting. One way to free it up without completely abandoning it to the old mechanics is to allow strafe jumping in between walljumps to maintain your speed (as it stands now you lose too much speed). The entire purpose of the mechanic as we have it is to get more skulks up off the ground. Allowing speed gains without the walls would just be putting the entire idea in the trash bin, and some may say that is where it belongs. Effectively you could have a system where walljumps increase your speed, and you can perform a hop in between without losing what you've gained to reach the next wall opening up some more possibilities. As we have it right now there are some locations where the mechanic works better than others which leads to inconsistencies in skulking and something along these lines would loosen it up and allow the system to be more flexible. This would need to come with changes to air acceleration and air control however to be a viable alternative.
My feels, here they are.
<!--quoteo(post=2037573:date=Nov 29 2012, 05:26 PM:name=hus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hus @ Nov 29 2012, 05:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037573"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sorry but it gets boring listening to a vocal bunch of diehards who flogged a free game for ten years trying to tell UWE to include some legacy system that appeals to the 1%.
UWE is not a charity organisation making a game to appeal solely to the 200 people who kept the NS1 community alive. They need to make money and they need to attract new comers as well as retain old.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He was more pointing out your attitude. It is okay to disagree but you have descended into ad hominem attacks which adds nothing to the discussion but an inflammatory nature.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Bunnyhopping is not appealing to <b>me</b> no matter what spin you put on it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fixed that for you.
UWE is not a charity organisation making a game to appeal solely to the 200 people who kept the NS1 community alive. They need to make money and they need to attract new comers as well as retain old.
Bunnyhopping is not appealing to new players no matter what spin you put on it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because you represent their best interest? You alone know what all the new players think?
You also discredit those who have stuck behind UWE for 8+ years? Do you have numbers to support you 1% claim? Who do you think will be playing this game in 5+ years? The people you are talking so disrespectfully too have already proved their loyalty twice over if they also have black armor like most of us "diehards" do which allowed for NS2's development to continue instead of being hastily released due to lack of funding.
Who are you again and why should your opinion matter?
My feels, here they are.
He was more pointing out your attitude. It is okay to disagree but you have descended into ad hominem attacks which adds nothing to the discussion but an inflammatory nature.
Fixed that for you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good thinking. If the wall mechanic stays, props could be added in walless areas to help it out, i just truly hate that built in constraint.