Mines don't need a damage boost, they need a res price drop. They are way too expensive for what they are. The damage is minimal, damage doesn't stack, they set off other mines in range, they can't be placed in many areas, they drop on death etc... Mines should be worth 5 res, not 15.
A 20 res shotgun can one-shot any skulk and has unlimited (potential) ammo. A 15 res pack of 3 mines should get a person 3 similar kills if they are triggered. However, I'd rather see the price dropped instead of the damage buffed. Make them like a welder, cheap enough to purchase any time, but not free.
<!--quoteo(post=2033926:date=Nov 24 2012, 09:09 PM:name=Savant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Savant @ Nov 24 2012, 09:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2033926"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Mines don't need a damage boost, they need a res price drop. They are way too expensive for what they are. The damage is minimal, damage doesn't stack, they set off other mines in range, they can't be placed in many areas, they drop on death etc... Mines should be worth 5 res, not 15.
A 20 res shotgun can one-shot any skulk and has unlimited (potential) ammo. A 15 res pack of 3 mines should get a person 3 similar kills if they are triggered. However, I'd rather see the price dropped instead of the damage buffed. Make them like a welder, cheap enough to purchase any time, but not free.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Shotguns still require skill. I do think 15 res is too much for mines but 5 is too cheap, they would be spammed everywhere. Maybe 10.
<!--quoteo(post=2033940:date=Nov 24 2012, 08:37 PM:name=HeatSurge)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (HeatSurge @ Nov 24 2012, 08:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2033940"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm glad the stupidity of the beta days with the com dropping 10 mine packs for 5 res each and then the marines mining EVERYTHING are gone.
I'm not looking forward to their return.
Mines are one of the few places where non-player equipment actually works well, and their cost is reasonably balanced.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Definitely. I'd rather a Marine buy a pack of mines than a shotgun <i>any day of the week</i> as an Alien.
I fail to see the irony tbh. Like everything else which is non-player equipment (turrets, macs, arcs, hydras, whips), mines are nearly useless if left alone, except as a meat shield or delay-type-equipment. However, like everything else which is non-player equipment, mines are very powerful and very useful when used correctly, and with live players around... and they also easily tip the balance of an otherwise balanced battle :-) .
The bigger issue on marine teams in pubs is that not many actually understand how and when to use mines, and few purchase them, saving for exosuits instead.
Mines need a nerf, not a buff. They're too spammable if left untouched damage/ff wise. I'd like to see them stay as they are but deal some (maybe 50% as to not 1-shot marines with no armor remaining) friendly fire damage to marines.
One of the biggest problems in the early game is marines simply standing on their teammates/own mines and being untouchable by skulks right outside a hive. Fana explains well why alien "counters" to mines are not effective at counting the mine spam.
I'm torn on this issue, I think if anything mines need to be a bit less res but I think other stuff needs to be fixed and the whole needing mines is just a symptom of a bigger problem. First of all, going into a room and knowing you can't do anything because there are mines next to everything sucks big time. If it killed you in one shot.. well talk about lame. But the thing is... what are marines to do? Running back to a res node everytime a skulk gets to it, and having to start running the second he sees the skulk nomming.. gets pretty old.
Lets look at the aliens side, I see a marine on a harvester and I start running to it, say I get there and get shot in the face.. looks like aliens just gotta suck it up right? Not really.. in most places an alien harvester is the marines don't usually sit around and put up there own harvester, specially if it's near the alien base, so the marine moves on to somewhere else, maybe another harvester. So what are aliens to do? Well the comm takes two seconds and plops down another harvester. Not sure if it's right but I was told it takes about 80 seconds for a harvester to pay for itself (think this is after it's done growing).
What happens if I as a skulk kill a extractor, the marine gets to me, kills me... and has to sit there for the comm to put down another extractor, then has to build it, while the skulk that killed the harvester could be almost back or already back in battle somewhere else.
People have noticed that all aliens do is distract the marines while the comm does most everything right? I love playing aliens but I'm getting frustrated because we basically have to be weaker than marines because it's not very fair for them to have to run around and build and expand while all we do is kill and destroy.
I don't want mines that just destroy me if I want to attack a certain marine building.. but the fact that marines are hugely punished when they lose buildings, because they have to actually go to them to rebuild them and be vulnerable while doing it, sucks bad. Because aliens can just dive in and fight while the alien comm is doing all the building.
<!--quoteo(post=2033974:date=Nov 24 2012, 11:52 PM:name=unkind)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (unkind @ Nov 24 2012, 11:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2033974"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->mines need a cap, overall, so you can't have 9000 mines in play, or a cost increase.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1 skulk comes in big explosion goodbye 100k resources
<!--quoteo(post=2033887:date=Nov 24 2012, 08:08 PM:name=Fappuchino)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fappuchino @ Nov 24 2012, 08:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2033887"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That wouldn't make sense unless they had tiny mechanical spider legs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're right, Spider mines would be absolutely awesome.
Perhaps that could be the research upgrade for them? 2 chairs + adv. armory + 20 res for spider mine upgrade.
They would function just like the ones from starcraft, in which they run at the enemy and explode when the enemy happens to get close enough. They could become immune to infestation with the upgrade too, since they are now on legs rather than directly on the ground. Make them fast but not too fast, leave the ability to kite them and give them a timed explosion, somewhere around 20 seconds, so they can't be kited forever. This could be fun.
If not that, then a jumping mine upgrade would be cool too. Same costs as the spider mine, just allows the mine to jump straight "up" from it's orientation towards enemies. This would let mines protect the full doorway rather than just the ground or wall or whatever surface they're placed on. This could make for some very funny moments in hallways.
Just some more random spitballin'. Love it or hate it, mine's just need something more to them to give them purpose for the entirety of a game, other than just skulk deterrent, which they aren't even that good for against any skulk that knows how to move and pays attention to where he's going. I've danced around plenty of mines to maul the marine that placed them.
Edit: Forgot to mention, mine damage is fine. It's enough to make them something to be wary of, but not so much that they're spammed as a form of attack. It's in a good spot. Mines just need some more functionality.
I think the reason for the majority of people not understanding the true potential of mines is due to the fact mines are infinitely more powerful the earlier they are researched. In gathers/comp games that is normally in the first 30 seconds whilst in pub games that is normally waaaaay later.
As well as this people in pub games tend to not use them on mass like we see in comp games, if 4 marines on a 12 person team spam mines its no big deal... When 3 marines on a 6 person team drop mines in the alien hive and start shooting eggs/rt it becomes a big deal very fast.
Before leap/lerks come out a mine essentially can be used to deny an area for a marine to stand safely inside, the skulk has to either die or let the marine stand there as long as he likes. Considering the long spawn times and the likely hood these marines are stood inside your hive shooting eggs in most cases dying is not a good option.
Mines are okay, hid 3 behind the obs the other day and it insta killed a fade that tried to attack. I am not sure about the numbers, perhaps he was injured, but 15<50
<!--quoteo(post=2034058:date=Nov 25 2012, 06:13 AM:name=ritualsacrifice)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ritualsacrifice @ Nov 25 2012, 06:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034058"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think you should maybe get 4 mines instead of 3 for 15 res, tbh.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
great, i'm so glad someone spent the time to compile a report on why mines need to be buffed (30% cheaper).
oh er... you seem to have forgotten to attach the report, thanks.
<!--quoteo(post=2034241:date=Nov 25 2012, 01:14 PM:name=PsympleJester)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PsympleJester @ Nov 25 2012, 01:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034241"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think the reason for the majority of people not understanding the true potential of mines is due to the fact mines are infinitely more powerful the earlier they are researched. In gathers/comp games that is normally in the first 30 seconds whilst in pub games that is normally waaaaay later.
As well as this people in pub games tend to not use them on mass like we see in comp games, if 4 marines on a 12 person team spam mines its no big deal... When 3 marines on a 6 person team drop mines in the alien hive and start shooting eggs/rt it becomes a big deal very fast.
Before leap/lerks come out a mine essentially can be used to deny an area for a marine to stand safely inside, the skulk has to either die or let the marine stand there as long as he likes. Considering the long spawn times and the likely hood these marines are stood inside your hive shooting eggs in most cases dying is not a good option.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
remember that mines can't be dropped on infestation.
if you get killed because marines spammed mines in your hive, it was because the alien commander cut corners and didn't place extra cysts. any time the marines are spending time to kill cysts while in your hive room is pretty helpful :P
<!--quoteo(post=2034263:date=Nov 25 2012, 02:05 PM:name=tarquinbb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tarquinbb @ Nov 25 2012, 02:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034263"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->remember that mines can't be dropped on infestation.
if you get killed because marines spammed mines in your hive, it was because the alien commander cut corners and didn't place extra cysts. any time the marines are spending time to kill cysts while in your hive room is pretty helpful :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There are alot of big hives where covering the entire room can be difficult especially at the very beginning of the game.
<!--quoteo(post=2034275:date=Nov 25 2012, 02:46 PM:name=Timarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Timarius @ Nov 25 2012, 02:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034275"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Completely off topic idea of lolz.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2034275:date=Nov 25 2012, 02:46 PM:name=Timarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Timarius @ Nov 25 2012, 02:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034275"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Please don't buff mines, because I've got a better idea.
We get rid of the sentry battery, keep the 3 turrets per room rule, and tie sentry power to the room power.
Then you can easily have a sentry covering the power, your obs, or the door!
Think of the possibilities!
Of course, then they'd need to make Hydras useful. I'm thinking get rid of that res cost which keeps that Gorge from changing his role, ever.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
put all of your sentry guns in the corner of the room facing the centre, becomes almost impossible to avoid sentry fire.
<!--quoteo(post=2034278:date=Nov 25 2012, 07:52 AM:name=tarquinbb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tarquinbb @ Nov 25 2012, 07:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034278"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->put all of your sentry guns in the corner of the room facing the centre, becomes almost impossible to avoid sentry fire.
what a terribly unthought out idea.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Several rooms on several maps would not support this placement. (Stick them in the center of Flight Control, skulk laughs and eats the power.)
Buildings would block line of sight, unless you huddle them all together in a corner, ready for bile bombing.
A bunch of sentries stuck together are still an easy target for bile bomb.
Lerks still spike sentries easily.
And the sentries still do minimal damage.
I obviously put no thought into that.
EDIT: And coming up with a different suggestion to alleviate a perceived problem rather than simply saying, "No, we don't need to see X" is totally off-topic.
EDIT: And again, mines are fine. I got 3-4 skulk kills in a ROW easily early game. They're extremely powerful at stopping harass, and they WILL kill a skulk without carapace in one explosion. Carapace gives just enough for a skulk to survive a mine blast only to be shot and die.
The one thing I'd like most for mines is that if a player has noticed / predicted mines, they should be able to safely trigger them; just like whips are only effective if they surprise the marines. Keep in mind range is not a benefit of so many of the life forms, so any skulks are going to be out of luck in that regard. They do have their parasite, but I believe it takes upwards fo 9 jillion hits for that to trigger a mine.
I'd just propose that Parasite be able to take out a mine in about 3 hits. That still depletes an enormous amount of your energy, and means you're a sitting target if you're trying to plow through marine defenses. (counter-play!) This could be implemented as decreased mine health, or a specific buff for that attack on that item.
I think mines are already very powerful. They make marines so much more resistant to Skulk pack ambushes and make important buildings a lot harder to kill.
The main place I've seen mines used is in the first minute of competitive games, mainly because the marines know that past the 7 or 8 minute mark, if they haven't won yet, the game is essentially over. Buying mines essentially hamstrings your late game buying power, and will, more often than not, screw you over royally if you don't end the game quickly.
<!--quoteo(post=2034280:date=Nov 25 2012, 02:57 PM:name=Timarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Timarius @ Nov 25 2012, 02:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034280"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Several rooms on several maps would not support this placement. (Stick them in the center of Flight Control, skulk laughs and eats the power.)
Buildings would block line of sight, unless you huddle them all together in a corner, ready for bile bombing.
A bunch of sentries stuck together are still an easy target for bile bomb.
Lerks still spike sentries easily.
And the sentries still do minimal damage.
I obviously put no thought into that.
EDIT: And coming up with a different suggestion to alleviate a perceived problem rather than simply saying, "No, we don't need to see X" is totally off-topic.
EDIT: And again, mines are fine. I got 3-4 skulk kills in a ROW easily early game. They're extremely powerful at stopping harass, and they WILL kill a skulk without carapace in one explosion. Carapace gives just enough for a skulk to survive a mine blast only to be shot and die.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you still totally miss the point... clumped sentry is the downside - they are meant to be vulnerable to bile bomb and they are not meant to 'cover' a large area.
if you had the freedom to place them anywhere in a room; it would be an absolute nightmare for any alien trying to harrass...
a single marine versus a single skulk in an expansion room.... well with the sentries all clumped up there is a huge blind spot and the marine only has a small area to stand 'safe' from the skulk. if you could put sentries everywhere, you could 'cover' about 90% of every room.
it's one of the most absurd suggestions i've ever seen.
p.s. sentry do a lot of damage to hp, as soon as you lose your armor you will die extremely fast as a skulk/lerk.
<!--quoteo(post=2034327:date=Nov 25 2012, 04:58 PM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Nov 25 2012, 04:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034327"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The main place I've seen mines used is in the first minute of competitive games, mainly because the marines know that past the 7 or 8 minute mark, if they haven't won yet, the game is essentially over. Buying mines essentially hamstrings your late game buying power, and will, more often than not, screw you over royally if you don't end the game quickly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i have to disagree.
once you have a jetpack and ~5 RT's; you should have enough income to keep buying back your jetpack - which is the single most influential piece of equipment in the game.
having some people buy shotguns obviously has merit, but if everyone buys a shotgun then you can potentially lose a lot more. this is due to mines being designed to be fire and forget, whereas losing a shotgun is just 20 res directly down the toilet.
shotgun would be more important if AR was bad. however, the AR is fking amazing in ns2.
killing skulks might not seem like it justifies the 5 res cost, but reducing the number of skulks can easily tip the fight in your favour and allow you to kill an extractor/hive/expensive lifeform etc.
<!--quoteo(post=2033475:date=Nov 23 2012, 11:56 PM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Swiftspear @ Nov 23 2012, 11:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2033475"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Mines are under priced in the current metagame. Your in base powernodes and phase gates are SIGNIFICANTLY weaker without a couple mines. You free up 1 to 2 marines to do actual things just by having those mines in your base, and save a bunch of res in beacons.
In the current version of NS, where it's basically bad for aliens to not try powernode rushes, mines are overpowered for the price they cost. If powernode rushes were more of a tactical decision rather than a required fallback every time marines moved forward than mines could be more powerful for their cost.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know why you dont simply walk around them or attack from a different angle. Mines are so easy to maneuver around.
<!--quoteo(post=2034446:date=Nov 25 2012, 04:12 PM:name=SaniK)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SaniK @ Nov 25 2012, 04:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034446"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't know why you dont simply walk around them or attack from a different angle. Mines are so easy to maneuver around.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because a field of mines + one marine shooting you means you can't just walk around them. The marine will kill you. If you try to attack him, the mine spam will kill you.
<!--quoteo(post=2033452:date=Nov 23 2012, 11:30 PM:name=Al_Ka_Pwn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Al_Ka_Pwn @ Nov 23 2012, 11:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2033452"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It seems silly that a grenade can instantly kill a skulk with carapace and it gets more ammo for free, but a 5 rez mine can't kill a skulk with carapace. For their cost, and their vulnerability to ranged alien attacks they should at the very least be able to kill skulks at all stages of the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Until Marines are prevented from going in to each and every vent on each and every map, yes, I am opposed to a mine damage buff. In fact, until that happens, I'd prefer to see mines hot-nerfed. Vent abuse + mines is way too beardy as it stands, especially on Docks and Veil.
Comments
A 20 res shotgun can one-shot any skulk and has unlimited (potential) ammo. A 15 res pack of 3 mines should get a person 3 similar kills if they are triggered. However, I'd rather see the price dropped instead of the damage buffed. Make them like a welder, cheap enough to purchase any time, but not free.
Mines are fine.
A 20 res shotgun can one-shot any skulk and has unlimited (potential) ammo. A 15 res pack of 3 mines should get a person 3 similar kills if they are triggered. However, I'd rather see the price dropped instead of the damage buffed. Make them like a welder, cheap enough to purchase any time, but not free.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Shotguns still require skill. I do think 15 res is too much for mines but 5 is too cheap, they would be spammed everywhere. Maybe 10.
I'm not looking forward to their return.
Mines are one of the few places where non-player equipment actually works well, and their cost is reasonably balanced.
I'm not looking forward to their return.
Mines are one of the few places where non-player equipment actually works well, and their cost is reasonably balanced.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Definitely. I'd rather a Marine buy a pack of mines than a shotgun <i>any day of the week</i> as an Alien.
The bigger issue on marine teams in pubs is that not many actually understand how and when to use mines, and few purchase them, saving for exosuits instead.
One of the biggest problems in the early game is marines simply standing on their teammates/own mines and being untouchable by skulks right outside a hive. Fana explains well why alien "counters" to mines are not effective at counting the mine spam.
First of all, going into a room and knowing you can't do anything because there are mines next to everything sucks big time. If it killed you in one shot.. well talk about lame. But the thing is... what are marines to do? Running back to a res node everytime a skulk gets to it, and having to start running the second he sees the skulk nomming.. gets pretty old.
Lets look at the aliens side, I see a marine on a harvester and I start running to it, say I get there and get shot in the face.. looks like aliens just gotta suck it up right? Not really.. in most places an alien harvester is the marines don't usually sit around and put up there own harvester, specially if it's near the alien base, so the marine moves on to somewhere else, maybe another harvester. So what are aliens to do? Well the comm takes two seconds and plops down another harvester.
Not sure if it's right but I was told it takes about 80 seconds for a harvester to pay for itself (think this is after it's done growing).
What happens if I as a skulk kill a extractor, the marine gets to me, kills me... and has to sit there for the comm to put down another extractor, then has to build it, while the skulk that killed the harvester could be almost back or already back in battle somewhere else.
People have noticed that all aliens do is distract the marines while the comm does most everything right? I love playing aliens but I'm getting frustrated because we basically have to be weaker than marines because it's not very fair for them to have to run around and build and expand while all we do is kill and destroy.
I don't want mines that just destroy me if I want to attack a certain marine building.. but the fact that marines are hugely punished when they lose buildings, because they have to actually go to them to rebuild them and be vulnerable while doing it, sucks bad. Because aliens can just dive in and fight while the alien comm is doing all the building.
1 skulk comes in
big explosion
goodbye 100k resources
You're right, Spider mines would be absolutely awesome.
Perhaps that could be the research upgrade for them? 2 chairs + adv. armory + 20 res for spider mine upgrade.
They would function just like the ones from starcraft, in which they run at the enemy and explode when the enemy happens to get close enough. They could become immune to infestation with the upgrade too, since they are now on legs rather than directly on the ground. Make them fast but not too fast, leave the ability to kite them and give them a timed explosion, somewhere around 20 seconds, so they can't be kited forever. This could be fun.
If not that, then a jumping mine upgrade would be cool too. Same costs as the spider mine, just allows the mine to jump straight "up" from it's orientation towards enemies. This would let mines protect the full doorway rather than just the ground or wall or whatever surface they're placed on. This could make for some very funny moments in hallways.
Just some more random spitballin'. Love it or hate it, mine's just need something more to them to give them purpose for the entirety of a game, other than just skulk deterrent, which they aren't even that good for against any skulk that knows how to move and pays attention to where he's going. I've danced around plenty of mines to maul the marine that placed them.
Edit:
Forgot to mention, mine damage is fine. It's enough to make them something to be wary of, but not so much that they're spammed as a form of attack. It's in a good spot. Mines just need some more functionality.
As well as this people in pub games tend to not use them on mass like we see in comp games, if 4 marines on a 12 person team spam mines its no big deal... When 3 marines on a 6 person team drop mines in the alien hive and start shooting eggs/rt it becomes a big deal very fast.
Before leap/lerks come out a mine essentially can be used to deny an area for a marine to stand safely inside, the skulk has to either die or let the marine stand there as long as he likes. Considering the long spawn times and the likely hood these marines are stood inside your hive shooting eggs in most cases dying is not a good option.
great, i'm so glad someone spent the time to compile a report on why mines need to be buffed (30% cheaper).
oh er... you seem to have forgotten to attach the report, thanks.
As well as this people in pub games tend to not use them on mass like we see in comp games, if 4 marines on a 12 person team spam mines its no big deal... When 3 marines on a 6 person team drop mines in the alien hive and start shooting eggs/rt it becomes a big deal very fast.
Before leap/lerks come out a mine essentially can be used to deny an area for a marine to stand safely inside, the skulk has to either die or let the marine stand there as long as he likes. Considering the long spawn times and the likely hood these marines are stood inside your hive shooting eggs in most cases dying is not a good option.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
remember that mines can't be dropped on infestation.
if you get killed because marines spammed mines in your hive, it was because the alien commander cut corners and didn't place extra cysts. any time the marines are spending time to kill cysts while in your hive room is pretty helpful :P
We get rid of the sentry battery, keep the 3 turrets per room rule, and tie sentry power to the room power.
Then you can easily have a sentry covering the power, your obs, or the door!
Think of the possibilities!
Of course, then they'd need to make Hydras useful. I'm thinking get rid of that res cost which keeps that Gorge from changing his role, ever.
if you get killed because marines spammed mines in your hive, it was because the alien commander cut corners and didn't place extra cysts. any time the marines are spending time to kill cysts while in your hive room is pretty helpful :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There are alot of big hives where covering the entire room can be difficult especially at the very beginning of the game.
<!--quoteo(post=2034275:date=Nov 25 2012, 02:46 PM:name=Timarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Timarius @ Nov 25 2012, 02:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034275"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Completely off topic idea of lolz.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lolz
We get rid of the sentry battery, keep the 3 turrets per room rule, and tie sentry power to the room power.
Then you can easily have a sentry covering the power, your obs, or the door!
Think of the possibilities!
Of course, then they'd need to make Hydras useful. I'm thinking get rid of that res cost which keeps that Gorge from changing his role, ever.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
put all of your sentry guns in the corner of the room facing the centre, becomes almost impossible to avoid sentry fire.
what a terribly unthought out idea.
what a terribly unthought out idea.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Several rooms on several maps would not support this placement. (Stick them in the center of Flight Control, skulk laughs and eats the power.)
Buildings would block line of sight, unless you huddle them all together in a corner, ready for bile bombing.
A bunch of sentries stuck together are still an easy target for bile bomb.
Lerks still spike sentries easily.
And the sentries still do minimal damage.
I obviously put no thought into that.
EDIT: And coming up with a different suggestion to alleviate a perceived problem rather than simply saying, "No, we don't need to see X" is totally off-topic.
EDIT: And again, mines are fine. I got 3-4 skulk kills in a ROW easily early game. They're extremely powerful at stopping harass, and they WILL kill a skulk without carapace in one explosion. Carapace gives just enough for a skulk to survive a mine blast only to be shot and die.
I'd just propose that Parasite be able to take out a mine in about 3 hits. That still depletes an enormous amount of your energy, and means you're a sitting target if you're trying to plow through marine defenses. (counter-play!) This could be implemented as decreased mine health, or a specific buff for that attack on that item.
Buildings would block line of sight, unless you huddle them all together in a corner, ready for bile bombing.
A bunch of sentries stuck together are still an easy target for bile bomb.
Lerks still spike sentries easily.
And the sentries still do minimal damage.
I obviously put no thought into that.
EDIT: And coming up with a different suggestion to alleviate a perceived problem rather than simply saying, "No, we don't need to see X" is totally off-topic.
EDIT: And again, mines are fine. I got 3-4 skulk kills in a ROW easily early game. They're extremely powerful at stopping harass, and they WILL kill a skulk without carapace in one explosion. Carapace gives just enough for a skulk to survive a mine blast only to be shot and die.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you still totally miss the point... clumped sentry is the downside - they are meant to be vulnerable to bile bomb and they are not meant to 'cover' a large area.
if you had the freedom to place them anywhere in a room; it would be an absolute nightmare for any alien trying to harrass...
a single marine versus a single skulk in an expansion room.... well with the sentries all clumped up there is a huge blind spot and the marine only has a small area to stand 'safe' from the skulk. if you could put sentries everywhere, you could 'cover' about 90% of every room.
it's one of the most absurd suggestions i've ever seen.
p.s. sentry do a lot of damage to hp, as soon as you lose your armor you will die extremely fast as a skulk/lerk.
i have to disagree.
once you have a jetpack and ~5 RT's; you should have enough income to keep buying back your jetpack - which is the single most influential piece of equipment in the game.
having some people buy shotguns obviously has merit, but if everyone buys a shotgun then you can potentially lose a lot more. this is due to mines being designed to be fire and forget, whereas losing a shotgun is just 20 res directly down the toilet.
shotgun would be more important if AR was bad. however, the AR is fking amazing in ns2.
killing skulks might not seem like it justifies the 5 res cost, but reducing the number of skulks can easily tip the fight in your favour and allow you to kill an extractor/hive/expensive lifeform etc.
In the current version of NS, where it's basically bad for aliens to not try powernode rushes, mines are overpowered for the price they cost. If powernode rushes were more of a tactical decision rather than a required fallback every time marines moved forward than mines could be more powerful for their cost.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know why you dont simply walk around them or attack from a different angle. Mines are so easy to maneuver around.
Because a field of mines + one marine shooting you means you can't just walk around them. The marine will kill you. If you try to attack him, the mine spam will kill you.
Until Marines are prevented from going in to each and every vent on each and every map, yes, I am opposed to a mine damage buff. In fact, until that happens, I'd prefer to see mines hot-nerfed. Vent abuse + mines is way too beardy as it stands, especially on Docks and Veil.