Make Vortex a ranged skillshot

CrushaK

Instead of having Vortex be the thing that the Fade has to go so close to the target for that it could as well just slash it on it's own, why not turn Vortex into a ranged skillshot? That means letting the Fade fire a Vortex projectile that flies relatively slow in a straight line at it's target (a little slower than Gorge's Bile Bomb speed), so marines are still able to dodge it if they see it coming.

This way the Fade could get at least a little support ability by taking out crucial buildings (like Sentry Batteries) without actually having to go in on it's own during a base attack, thus being a less easy target for the little benefit that Vortex actually provides. It could also fire the Vortex at chasing marines by turning around for a moment.
Maybe the Vortex could also have a little area of effect where it hits, so it could potentially affect multiple things if they were really close together (like a swarm of ARCs piled up in a spot).

Rokiyo

+1

This sounds like it would give the fade a little more versatility

Timarius

Yay, somebody did what I didn't think to do and posted something I've been spouting for a while in suggestions!

I support this motion! Bring back the freaky limb on the Fade's shoulder, and make it shoot vortex balls!

Katana314

I dunno. Vortex sounds like a highly risky strategical decision on its own. I'd really prefer not to also turn it into a skill-based thing.
You get commanders sometimes saying "Okay, you two gorges are going to Bile Bomb their power node." That's not an all-or-nothing thing, and it's a sound strategy. It's stupid to introduce scenarios where people go "######! Bile bomb didn't work / missed! Everyone retreat!!"

Vortex requires research, a lot of the Fade's energy, and it needs to be used in the correct way. It also doesn't kill anyone on its own. Does anyone see where I'm coming from?

CrushaK

As fragile as the Fade currently is, people are not really considering to use Vortex over direct attack when sieging a base. A ranged version of the attack could serve as opener for attacks by taking out specific structures BEFORE rushing in a room and risking your 50 res life. And it's only really a skillshot against moving marines over distance. Against static structures does it gain an advantage over the current Vortex (Fade seriously needs some redeeming points over Lerks) and up close against marines is the travel distance of the Vortex so short that it basically works like the current melee version.

Twiggeh

<!--quoteo(post=2033299:date=Nov 24 2012, 03:29 AM:name=Katana314)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Katana314 @ Nov 24 2012, 03:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2033299"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I dunno. Vortex sounds like a highly risky strategical decision on its own. I'd really prefer not to also turn it into a skill-based thing.
You get commanders sometimes saying "Okay, you two gorges are going to Bile Bomb their power node." That's not an all-or-nothing thing, and it's a sound strategy. It's stupid to introduce scenarios where people go "######! Bile bomb didn't work / missed! Everyone retreat!!"

Vortex requires research, a lot of the Fade's energy, and it needs to be used in the correct way. It also doesn't kill anyone on its own. Does anyone see where I'm coming from?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Well, you could still use it in melee-range if thats your cup of tea.

twiliteblue

I love that idea crushak. I think the vortex projectile needs an expiry range (about 10 m?), where it disappears if it does not hit anything. I'd also like vortex to regain a small area effect.

CrushaK

Next step to make Fade more viable after this: how about allowing the Fade to charge it's slashes? A fully charged melee slash (say it takes 1.0 - 1.5 seconds to charge) can 1-hit kill a marine if the Fade lands the hit from behind them. (Like the Fade in the teaser trailer took the first marine in a group out by simply stabbing through him.)

The reduced fire rate would require careful aiming and timing of slashes, so if the Fade would try to go for this attack, it couldn't get any fast random slash hits. Whether or not a slash would remain "charged" while using Shadow Step or Blink would probably be need to be tested to see whether or not a Fade has a realistic change of getting one of those hits. And exposing yourself for 1.5 seconds before an attack seems way enough to give a marine time to react by simply turning around.

This would allow the Fade in combination with the ranged Vortex to be more of a versatile harassing ninja rather than having no other option than to basically charge into an enemy and run away again as soon as it got hurt. Honestly do I expect most marine, especially if they walk around in teams, to be aware enough to spot the Fade in time, but such a "Spy" mechanic could add some more highly needed gameplay spice to the Fade.

RaZDaZ

Similar to Arcane Bomb in Diablo 3? Disappears after it doesn't hit a target. I like this notion of Fade having some ranged versatility, when I'm looking at a squad of marines or peaking around a corner seeing an exo, best thing to do is wait for them to split, flank or attack somewhere else. But there are times when everyone is needed to defend a key spot but marines are entrenched in too deep, Vortex sounds good although I wouldn't have it affect exos (not sure if it does now, I never use it). Vortexing welder marines for 5 seconds could be a huge deal.

If this case wouldn't work, what about a ranged projectile that slows the movement speed of marines in a certain radius? Say it explodes after a 10m range or when it hits a target such as a marine or a wall, it would create a nullification zone that reduces movement speed by about 30%. Not a large nullification zone, around the size of a typical corridor/hallway on Tram.

Benson

Amazing idea, im all for it.

I don't think it should be an AoE if its ranged, after all, the risk of removing a marine or structure from combat is drastically reduced when it can be done from range, and it shouldn't be possible to disable 2-3 marines without risk.

This means it could also work on exo.

Keldorn

Good idea, but I can see this becoming a super effective ability against exos and frankly I don't want people to lose even more incentive to go exos instead of the OP JP/Shotgun marine.

CrushaK

Maybe allow marines then to trigger the incoming Vortex projectile before it hits it's target by shooting some bullets at it? Think about UT's Shock Combo. ;)

proteinstain

good idea, make it so the vortex stops/activates as soon as it hits a marine/structure. if theirs nothing it just dissipate after 'x' amount of distance. 10m? that number would have to be tested.

Sammey

I think it would be cool that vortex will pull an enemy to your position. This way the fade has a ranged attack, but is still stricly a melee killer. Vortex Pull?

Khaze

The odd chance that I happen to be a khammander I never waste res on researching Vortex, because a fade might actually use it. I've never used it as a Fade, other than to taunt the enemy team when we've already won, I rather save my energy for fleeing, considering all it takes is one opportunistic marine with a shotgun to kill you.

CrushaK

The current Vortex implementation in the Balance Test is that it creates an actual Vortex that also blocks projectiles in it's location. Theoretically the Fade can create a bullet shield for stationary targets, but I doubt there are many practical uses for it.

BLACKSasquatch

I like what Sewlek's balance mod did with vortex. He made it a real world entity then had it reflect all attacks for 5 seconds wherever you casted it; in his mod was very useful and wasn't even OP.