Res Lock Issue?
SpaceJew
Join Date: 2012-09-03 Member: 157584Members
Join Date: 2012-09-03 Member: 157584Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Aliens can be locked out of the resource side of the game?</div>So right at the start of our game, a marine managed to get into our hive and kill our only res node. At the time we only had the one, and did not have 10 t.res to build a new harvester. So, there we are within the first five minutes of the game, effectively locked out of the entire res side of the game. I know in NS1 the hive gave one tick of res as well to avoid such a situation, but it appears NS2 just says 'tough cookies'. A few of our players got into the hive to see if we could figure out how to fix it, but there didn't appear to be a way to recycle alien structures for emergency res either. (If there is, please let me know.)
I have to say if this is possible it's pretty lame. It shouldn't effectively end the game within the first five minutes with a healthy hive and a whole team of live skulks. The sad thing is we held them back for 15-30 minutes since their commander didn't really know what he was doing either. >.<
I have to say if this is possible it's pretty lame. It shouldn't effectively end the game within the first five minutes with a healthy hive and a whole team of live skulks. The sad thing is we held them back for 15-30 minutes since their commander didn't really know what he was doing either. >.<
Comments
Making the CC and Hive give 1 tick would be an interesting way to prevent this.
This is actually pretty rare, and usually just illustrates that that team isn't doing very well, and was arguably bound to lose anyway.
But it's disappointing when it happens. Feels like a cheap way to go, even though it doesn't necessarily dictate a loss.
I think it'd be very reasonable to throw in 1 tick of TRes in the event of losing all harvesters. Even max it out at 10. Even if it was .5 per tick. And after a 3 minute delay. Even the slightest chance to pull back from that position would benefit the game.
-C
edit: ps/ It's not an "Issue" or bug. I guess that makes it a feature! ;)
I wouldn't be against a slow res rate to get out of it though.
You said it yourself, you had a whole team of live skulks. Why didn't a single one of those prevent that harvester from going down?
If you loose your one harvester and spend all your resources, you must be punished and lose the game.
Anything else would be madness.
I guess you think an early skulk base rush when the marine team is in another room is lame as well?
If <i>everyone</i> on your team is out of position and mess up badly when the enemy team does something well, you should lose.
If you don't like fast games, just don't make huge mistakes.
Don't blame it on the game, please.
It's pretty easy to come up with the train of thought:
IF BUILD 2ND HIVE FIRST -> NO RES FOR RES TOWERS -> PROTECT ONLY RES TOWER
On the other hand, as marines:
IF BUILD 2ND HIVE FIRST -> ALIENS HAVE NO RES FOR RES TOWERS -> KILL ONLY RES TOWER FOR RES LOCK -> WIN GAME
If protolab was always available, I guarantee people would build it and get res locked.
No, it did not. You got res for kills, which could save you if you lost all your resource towers (although usually somebody would have enough res to go gorge and drop resource towers without having to get some kills first).
<!--quoteo(post=2004344:date=Nov 1 2012, 02:10 PM:name=Skie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Skie @ Nov 1 2012, 02:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2004344"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's up to the alien team whether they want to defend their one and only harvester if they go 2nd hive first.
It's pretty easy to come up with the train of thought:
IF BUILD 2ND HIVE FIRST -> NO RES FOR RES TOWERS -> PROTECT ONLY RES TOWER
On the other hand, as marines:
IF BUILD 2ND HIVE FIRST -> ALIENS HAVE NO RES FOR RES TOWERS -> KILL ONLY RES TOWER FOR RES LOCK -> WIN GAME<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think the problem is that the newbies are dropping fast hives -- most of them don't even drop a hive... ever. Jesus, the things I've seen over the past few days; the most common build order I've seen is something like: WHIP -> WHIP -> SHADE HIVE -> LOTS OF CYSTS -> SHADE -> SHADE -> WHIP -> WHIP -> SHADE -> GAME OVER.
It's the same story on marines, just replace where appropriate with robo, turrets and forward armories.
I've coined a new joint term for turrets and whips, actually: Noob Bait.
Hahaha!
Oh boy, I'm using this one :D
Yes aliens should defend their nodes better, but there is situations when it happens out of sheer luck and there is no remedy for the aliens when it does besides getting everyone to f4. There needs to be resign for aliens, or if there are hives, a very slow resource trickle so that the game isn't over completely. I never really noticed it in beta since it never happened, like ever. But yesterday due to the comms being new it happened a bunch of times, and the games sometimes went on for an extra 20 minutes since people didn't get what reslocked actually meant.
It's the same story on marines, just replace where appropriate with robo, turrets and forward armories.
I've coined a new joint term for turrets and whips, actually: Noob Bait.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The commander should have to research non-noobyness before dropping whips...
I cant count the number of times I have been Alien comm, hopped out to do some gorge healing/killing whilst
I had nothing to do and some random alien jumps in and starts spamming whips...
---
We could just make it so gorges can build Nodes...
I am sick of noob gorges stood by a node that i KNOW my team cant defend
asking for the res node over and over and over again, but I dont want to waste
Tres on it... This would fix both problems. :D
If you loose your one harvester and spend all your resources, you must be punished and lose the game.
Anything else would be madness.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But the main annoyance is that reslock is one sided gimmick as marines are not punished as such. If you chew down marines' last resource tower they are still have the possibility (however small) to come back in the game by recycling what they have spent and build a new one.
If Kharaa wanted to create a similar reslock for marines they would need to destroy ALL of their buildings, instead of just their last resource tower. Also I would argue that bringing down a harvester with one marine is faster than one skulk destroying extractor.
It would be only fair if aliens could compost their structures to gain few resources or that hive/cc would give one res every now and then.
Happened sometimes in beta. Even happened in some competitive games where alien commander was pretty experienced. Sometimes you take a risk and it bites you, sometimes you just mess up and there is no coming back.
One of the main reasons for reslocks in competitive btw has been the quick 2nd hive strategy. It doesn't leave much leeway in your res management and marines have learned way way back that sniping last harvesters down is effective vs early 2nd hives. This means that quite a few marines will try and res lock you actively.
One of the main reasons for reslocks in competitive btw has been the quick 2nd hive strategy. It doesn't leave much leeway in your res management and marines have learned way way back that sniping last harvesters down is effective vs early 2nd hives. This means that quite a few marines will try and res lock you actively.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In my opinion that's a problem with the need to quick drop a second hive.
I've seen it happen plenty of times before 1.0. Res locking aliens isn't a new thing.
It might even be a little more intuitive for new players if the game guides can say "Harvesters give your team res, if you lose them all your team res flow will be massivle reduced and players will cease gathering personal res until a harvester is rebuilt, protect them!" rather than "If a few marines sneak in and kill this you are irreversibly screwed".
Edit: and yes, I also saw res locking several times in beta.
One of the main reasons for reslocks in competitive btw has been the quick 2nd hive strategy. It doesn't leave much leeway in your res management and marines have learned way way back that sniping last harvesters down is effective vs early 2nd hives. This means that quite a few marines will try and res lock you actively.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
^ this. It's a strat that was and probably still is actively/consciously pursued by competitive teams in tournaments. Aliens' inability to recycle means no way to escape it, even if you can see it coming.
I think a simple solution would be to have hive/command chairs give some small amount of resources (e.g. .25/tick). That's the way this problem was solved in supcom2, a game I played. Your commander would generate energy/mass very very slowly, so you could never be truly "beaten" before it's dead (same concept as a hive/com chair).
This.
I also tend to find a lot of resource nodes in bases are stupidly placed. A lot of them allow Marines to shoot them down from one to two rooms away.
Nothing pisses me off more than starting in Server room as Aliens and Marines in warehouse.
Competitive teams also know how to defend their base from rushes... So.....
High risk, high reward.
I also tend to find a lot of resource nodes in bases are stupidly placed. A lot of them allow Marines to shoot them down from one to two rooms away.
Nothing pisses me off more than starting in Server room as Aliens and Marines in warehouse.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They did fix server room RT. It's around the corner now, so no more shooting it from all the way down the corridor.
Sub access hive in tram (or whatever the south tech point is called) still needs work IMO. Can be shot from really far away.
<!--quoteo(post=2004823:date=Nov 1 2012, 12:03 PM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Nov 1 2012, 12:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2004823"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Alien recycle would easily solve this problem.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Regurgitate? Decompose? :-D
But yeah, something that helps you save your RTs and not have them be a complete loss would be nice. I've cried many times when I can see marines coming in from really far, and I can see the team isn't able to defend an RT. And then I get to watch it die without being able to do anything. Oh well.