It's true that scaling isn't just a skulk problem, gorges and lerks too have a very hard time remaining competitive once the end game comes around. (particularly in regards to survivability) Again though, focus and better movement mechanics for the skulk, as well as perhaps some finetuning of the gorge's energy costs could already go a long way.
I think alien T1 play is definitely in a much better position than it was pre-224. Both skulks and lerks are now a lot more potent, with the second hive no longer a necessity. (You will want to get celerity though if you stick at just 1 hive) Problem is they still fall-off late-game, and other alien 1 hive strats, like crag or god forbid shade aren't really viable against competent marines.
An easy fix really would be to have all upgrades scale with number of hives, even if just a little, either that or allow multiple chambers to increase potency like in NS 1.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Skulks are meant to be a little more "stealth and scouting" orientated than frontal assault, dropping on marines from ceilings, popping up from behind crated etc. - I get slaughtered all the time as a skulk because I still haven't got my head around biting their asses instead of head-on :-}<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If only skulks were much smaller (ns1) than the bulky masses they are now. Not to mention how far the front feet sticks out on the model. "Stealth and scouting" might actually be a lot more feasible then if there were changes to correct these issues. But they're not going to, so the "stealth and scouting" is hardly a strong counter point to bring up against for how poor skulks play out.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I won 3 games last night as aliens, both playing and commanding.
They dont suck still ----
Aliens just won 3 games in a row where I was playing so I don't know what this OP is talking about.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And I saw marines win 3 games last night in a row... It might just be because Docking is a horrible, retarded ass map.
The point being: Both of these statements mean jack ######.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->skulk bite seems to me really better... just need more time now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I miss the Pre-212 (when ever it was changed) bite. Seriously, I'm watching the numbers. Sometimes I get 25 damage on a perfectly lined up bite and other times I'm getting a 75 on a bite when the marine is on the left or right side of my screen. I'm either biting between the marines legs, thus only hitting the 25 bite cone or I don't even know. But I'm back to having to look up to bite them in the back to guarantee a 75 damage bite, such a pain in my ass. All they needed to do was make the bite cone a box and adjust its size and I would have been happy.
---
While I wouldn't mind actually having scaling in this game. The real problem lies with Alien tech being complete utter garbage AKA ######. Aliens don't even scale with upgrades because the vast majority of them don't even work in combat or just plain terrible. Aliens "superior mobility" doesn't even exist because marines have sprint. No res while dead penalizes aliens far more than marines. Not to mention how fast marines respawn compared to aliens. There are so many problems that still exist in this game that's stacked against aliens that causes such boring, stale, terrible gameplay that's been argued over a dozen times that is still left in the game for god knows why. I knew 224 wasn't going to solve anything because they've refused to listen to feedback the last 24 patches. Alien game play is going to be a laughing stock to non-beta players come 1.0 release.
Marines is the game's easy mode. There is no denying that.
----
Also, if marines crying about how they couldn't one shot skulks when the shotgun cone/dmg was changed wasn't clear indication that the vast majority of marine players only wanted easy mode in this game, I don't know what to tell you. There is a reason why the same constant topic starters that complained about Aliens being "op" have stopped posting is because they got the easy mode that they wanted. The only time they come out of the wood works is when players start taking about how bad alien gameplay is and they try shouting those players down with the usual drivel they post.
Here are some of my favorites:
"Aliens are not suppose to scale! That's why there are higher lifeforms!" Discounting that lmg basic marines scale with weapon and armor upgrades, and so do higher tier weapons.
"Aliens don't need hive teleport/don't need to move faster!" Discounting the fact that axe marines run nearly just as fast as skulks, or the fact that they have phase gates and beacon that makes moving around the map easy and with very little risk to bases (or dying).
<!--quoteo(post=1997315:date=Oct 25 2012, 11:44 PM:name=Xarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xarius @ Oct 25 2012, 11:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1997315"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->An easy fix really would be to have all upgrades scale with number of hives, even if just a little, either that or allow multiple chambers to increase potency like in NS 1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, that was my mind too, maybe aliens got less health at start with one hive, but like XX% more health and armor each hive. So with XX hives, aliens hp/armor increase, that would make skulks in late games same effective as armor level 3 marines.
MouseThe Lighter Side of PessimismJoin Date: 2002-03-02Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1996864:date=Oct 25 2012, 10:27 PM:name=male_fatalities)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (male_fatalities @ Oct 25 2012, 10:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1996864"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Skulks are easy mode at the moment. They overbuffed bite, glancing bite just makes the bite way to big.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Compared to in 223? Skulks are definitely much stronger (perhaps in part because they had the time to get used to trying to land a bite in 223). But honestly, even as marine, I don't have a problem with this. When I'm not checking the corners and a good skulk ambushes me, I get annihilated; which is how I think it should be.
I've gotta say, from a marine gameplay perspective, glancing bites are the best thing I have ever seen. So often in the past you knew, when fighting a skulk, that death was a single mistake away. It didn't matter that you had 60% of your HP, if you slip up and that skulk connects, you are dead. Now there is legitimately hope that this won't be the case, and in my opinion, it makes the fights much more exciting.
<!--quoteo(post=1997317:date=Oct 25 2012, 10:44 PM:name=MisterNubs)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MisterNubs @ Oct 25 2012, 10:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1997317"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And I saw marines win 3 games last night in a row... It might just be because Docking is a horrible, retarded ass map.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1997339:date=Oct 25 2012, 03:58 PM:name=1dominator1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (1dominator1 @ Oct 25 2012, 03:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1997339"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->After playing several games I have considered both your opinion and statistical matters and have produced a fitting answer. No they dont.
Edit: After actually reading OP allow me to amend: No they dont, but you might.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, honestly i played a couple hours straight on aliens and they do seem improved, but i still think lerks die too easily and very late game skulks seem a bit too ineffective. Now that I have decent fps, marines dont teleport around, glancing bites are in etc it's not nearly as god AWFUL 223 was (and it was ###### bad.) lol.
Not going to change my OP though because I still think aliens need to scale (even just a bit), be faster, and be smaller lol. Alien evolutions also kinda weak and should be improved.
You can overcome this with skill now that the game runs well and people aren't lagging all over the screen but come on. It still requires wayyyyyy more skill to play alien for less results.
224 is PLAYABLE, i commend the team for making a reasonably decently balanced patch for once.
I've been watching aliens mow down all day long. . .
Only games they lose seem to be when there is confusion over who is comm, nobody gorges, and/or when 2-3 marines run rush across the map without building anything
<!--coloro:#ADD8E6--><span style="color:#ADD8E6"><!--/coloro-->After having read a few of the posts these are my observations:
I do think that marine-aiming has improved because of performance gains (and maybe the tracers help some too?)
I think that the improvement in spike damage is great as is the glancing bite... it makes playing a skulk feel much better
However, I must agree with many who have pointed out that the net <i>feels</i> like a wash... maybe even a little worse for skulks at range. I find that <i>IF</i> I can close I am way more deadly... however, I find that closing is <i>significantly</i> harder to do.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--quoteo(post=1997029:date=Oct 26 2012, 02:22 AM:name=VeNeM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VeNeM @ Oct 26 2012, 02:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1997029"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i would like to see focus added back in as if you just HAVE to play skulk late game , focus helps immensely (even though the drawback is that you are left wide open between attacks so you have to move very well). a shotgunner with good aim will still blow a skulk away but an lmger might have a really tough time with a cele focus skulk.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> And this is why we say there is no reasoning or using logic with you. You say you want to see return of focus...but that skulks should not scale. Hate to break it to you but adding focus is adding an attack scaling for skulks.
You seem to infer that playing skulk late game is something that good players avoid and only poor players have to suffer with "if you just HAVE to play skulk", sorry but we are not all 1337 and can perma fade. Heck most of us suck balls as fade and lerk, being that we dont get to spend a lot of time practicing (actually having life outside of games) and are never likely to be good enough not to die...especially when playing against more serious players.
MF you say skulks are in easy mode...heck you thought they where easy in 223 (based on some of the games I have played with you, for you it may well have been the case). But to be honest I am not sure I have seen you struggle with any of the alien lifeforms. As for me I am just an average player who has given up ever wanting to play game competitively (too much grief) and soley play for enjoyment. As such I will never be able to invest the sort of time you have/do into maintaining such levels of gameplay.
I think skulk bite is about right, show some kindness to us mere mortals) as it allows for players of different levels to actually enjoy landing even glancing blows (not too disimilar to a SG in that way...noob cannon for spray and prey). Movement is still the weakness of the skulk, a marine feels more agile and easier to control than a skulk once you get up close. I know I am not the only person on the forums who feels that skulks play like they have lead feet compared to marines. I am not saying the best players are not scary to encounter even with 223 skulks but that the average player struggled to break even K:D even when the team was winning.
I am sure even you find it more challenging to skulk later in the game, well the rest of us find it damn near impossible. What easy for you at the start to mid game is challenging for most people, by late game....its just masochistic. Focus in NS1 brought a level of scalability.....whether we have focus or poisened bites it does not matter, the key is that it increases the base attack numbers to account for the increased marine armour.
Aliens can win, bite means base rushes are viable again but as the game goes on your ability to send your base units in and do significant damage decreases, marines always have the ability to push in a group of 6 LMG marines and do significant damage.
<!--quoteo(post=1997474:date=Oct 25 2012, 04:45 PM:name=CodeCowboy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CodeCowboy @ Oct 25 2012, 04:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1997474"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--coloro:#ADD8E6--><span style="color:#ADD8E6"><!--/coloro-->After having read a few of the posts these are my observations:
I do think that marine-aiming has improved because of performance gains (and maybe the tracers help some too?)
I think that the improvement in spike damage is great as is the glancing bite... it makes playing a skulk feel much better
However, I must agree with many who have pointed out that the net <i>feels</i> like a wash... maybe even a little worse for skulks at range. I find that <i>IF</i> I can close I am way more deadly... however, I find that closing is <i>significantly</i> harder to do.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree mostly. I really do not like glancing bite.
For now it seems a bit better, but I would have preferred to just see a increased high damage bite cone between 221-223 size. Now with this glancing bite it can often take 4-5-6 bites to score a kill and its really hard to anticipate how your doing in a 1v1 and if you should run or not. Its also hard to improve because its pretty difficult to actually tell if your scoring good bites or crappy ones. Its nearly impossible to kill a marine thats getting med spammed with 25-50dmg bites.
I don't feel any stronger against marines in general then I did in 223. My higher lifeform play onos excepted actually feels weaker (better performance for marines maybe).
I especially feel like shotguns are becoming a problem as more and more people are becoming highly efficient with them. How is it fair that a marine with a shotgun that gets recycled like 8 times just needs to hit you 1 time whereas you need to bite them 4-5times. A good shotgunner can have enough res to have one for like 3/4 of the game no problem.
<!--quoteo(post=1997583:date=Oct 26 2012, 06:34 AM:name=statikg)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (statikg @ Oct 26 2012, 06:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1997583"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I agree mostly. I really do not like glancing bite.
For now it seems a bit better, but I would have preferred to just see a increased high damage bite cone between 221-223 size. Now with this glancing bite it can often take 4-5-6 bites to score a kill and its really hard to anticipate how your doing in a 1v1 and if you should run or not. Its also hard to improve because its pretty difficult to actually tell if your scoring good bites or crappy ones. Its nearly impossible to kill a marine thats getting med spammed with 25-50dmg bites.
I don't feel any stronger against marines in general then I did in 223. My higher lifeform play onos excepted actually feels weaker (better performance for marines maybe).
I especially feel like shotguns are becoming a problem as more and more people are becoming highly efficient with them. How is it fair that a marine with a shotgun that gets recycled like 8 times just needs to hit you 1 time whereas you need to bite them 4-5times. A good shotgunner can have enough res to have one for like 3/4 of the game no problem.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<u><b>True words</b></u>, even with carapace you have to be very very lucky to survive against one marine. Talking about balance is needed, i don't understand these trolls here. Sure, everyone make mistakes, but stop trolling and hate on people themself, thats just childish! Fact is, that marines are right now very strong, maybe the good peformence did a lot to this. It is a beta and we have to talk about that to support the devs! But writing like "bah shut up" is just stupid and not helpfully... Yeah, my english sucks so i can't tell everytime what exactly i mean, but at least i try it.
<!--quoteo(post=1997634:date=Oct 26 2012, 10:28 AM:name=Price)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price @ Oct 26 2012, 10:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1997634"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><u><b>True words</b></u>, even with carapace you have to be very very lucky to survive against one marine. Talking about balance is needed, i don't understand these trolls here. Sure, everyone make mistakes, but stop trolling and hate on people themself, thats just childish! Fact is, that marines are right now very strong, maybe the good peformence did a lot to this. It is a beta and we have to talk about that to support the devs! But writing like "bah shut up" is just stupid and not helpfully... Yeah, my english sucks so i can't tell everytime what exactly i mean, but at least i try it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1997582:date=Oct 26 2012, 05:28 AM:name=Onii-chan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Onii-chan @ Oct 26 2012, 05:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1997582"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just no. FF is not compatible will NS and will never be. And out of 30 games I've played today, marines won like 12 of those.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed. I played on a server last night with FF. It's horrible for both teams, especially marines.
Skulk ambushes become a cluster f*** of friendly-bite damage, but that's nothing compared to marines. Not once did marines win in that server and it was greatly in part due to FF, a lot of the marine deaths weren't even caused by the aliens.
<!--quoteo(post=1997663:date=Oct 26 2012, 11:35 AM:name=azurescorch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (azurescorch @ Oct 26 2012, 11:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1997663"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Agreed. I played on a server last night with FF. It's horrible for both teams, especially marines.
Skulk ambushes become a cluster f*** of friendly-bite damage, but that's nothing compared to marines. Not once did marines win in that server and it was greatly in part due to FF, a lot of the marine deaths weren't even caused by the aliens.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Meh. The NS1 servers where I am from have always run with FF turned on, and I doubt any of the veteran players here would want that to change in NS2. Personally, I much prefer any mechanic that forces the player to make a choice, rather than firing randomly at everything.
<!--quoteo(post=1997666:date=Oct 26 2012, 10:50 AM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Oct 26 2012, 10:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1997666"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Meh. The NS1 servers where I am from have always run with FF turned on, and I doubt any of the veteran players here would want that to change in NS2. Personally, I much prefer any mechanic that forces the player to make a choice, rather than firing randomly at everything.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If they ever do add it then it at least shouldn't be a default feature, the amount of grieving that went on in that server was very high - <i>"oh, I don't like those two players in front of me, they picked up my dropped weapon earlier. Oh, I know, I'll kill them with my GL".</i> I expect in v1.0 we're going to get an influx of <i><!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->(what can I say that won't get censored)<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></i> butt holes. I'd rather not see them given the power to team kill.
Every complaint I see seems to stem from aliens having no scaling damage, and how incredibly effective shotguns are with good aim, but I was wondering something.
I noticed alot of marine weapons cost about the same or a little less than alien forms of equal power, yet the weapons get recycled. So the only time it actually looks balanced is when the aliens avoid dieing constantly. Is that a fair assessment?
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
Focus would be nice. I expect it will come eventually. Egg spawning will be getting some attention soon as well.
My suggestion as performance increases, along with marine aim - is to increase base speeds for life forms as they were originally slowed for performance reasons. Aliens need every bit of mobility that they can get, and if skulk and lerk got their speed increased by say one or two digits I believe it would go a long way. Especially considering the larger skulk in NS2. (Also, the lerk was recently slowed from 13 to 11)
<!--quoteo(post=1997821:date=Oct 26 2012, 10:14 AM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Oct 26 2012, 10:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1997821"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Focus would be nice. I expect it will come eventually. Egg spawning will be getting some attention soon as well.
My suggestion as performance increases, along with marine aim - is to increase base speeds for life forms as they were originally slowed for performance reasons. Aliens need every bit of mobility that they can get, and if skulk and lerk got their speed increased by say one or two digits I believe it would go a long way. Especially considering the larger skulk in NS2. (Also, the lerk was recently slowed from 13 to 11)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Focus won't matter as long as Armories heal armor.
I'd much rather just see them make the skulk model smaller again. I think base skulk speed is fine, if you tweak it up, celerity will be crazy. Just have wall jump give more speed, and give skulks better acceleration. Base lerk could probably use some love in regards to speed... And the gorge needs some love too tbh.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
<!--quoteo(post=1997833:date=Oct 26 2012, 08:24 AM:name=Jekt)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jekt @ Oct 26 2012, 08:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1997833"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Alien spawning won't either while marines have sprint.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> would it help to fix non player scaling spawn rates of eggs? Yes. Would it "not matter" as long as there is sprint? No. ofc it would matter. Same goes for focus. A JP in air isn't using the armory, sixty watt man. :)
Yea while I concur that sprint ruins a lot of things, it would be hard to balance without it now considering everything built around it. (extractor hp, no electric extractors, structure prices and even alien maturation times.)
JektJoin Date: 2012-02-05Member: 143714Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Would it "not matter" as long as there is sprint? No. ofc it would matter.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're right, it would help. Reevaluating wave spawns would do some good as well as increased speed, but I don't think it's just the aliens that need to be changed here.
General marine mobility is a massive factor. Armories healing marines to full in seconds, and weapon recycling due to said mobility. I'd argue that marine pres is an issue to, allowing an entire marine team to go shotguns at no cost to tres requirements like upgrade timings.
Comments
I think alien T1 play is definitely in a much better position than it was pre-224. Both skulks and lerks are now a lot more potent, with the second hive no longer a necessity. (You will want to get celerity though if you stick at just 1 hive) Problem is they still fall-off late-game, and other alien 1 hive strats, like crag or god forbid shade aren't really viable against competent marines.
An easy fix really would be to have all upgrades scale with number of hives, even if just a little, either that or allow multiple chambers to increase potency like in NS 1.
If only skulks were much smaller (ns1) than the bulky masses they are now. Not to mention how far the front feet sticks out on the model. "Stealth and scouting" might actually be a lot more feasible then if there were changes to correct these issues. But they're not going to, so the "stealth and scouting" is hardly a strong counter point to bring up against for how poor skulks play out.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I won 3 games last night as aliens, both playing and commanding.
They dont suck still
----
Aliens just won 3 games in a row where I was playing so I don't know what this OP is talking about.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And I saw marines win 3 games last night in a row... It might just be because Docking is a horrible, retarded ass map.
The point being: Both of these statements mean jack ######.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->skulk bite seems to me really better... just need more time now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I miss the Pre-212 (when ever it was changed) bite. Seriously, I'm watching the numbers. Sometimes I get 25 damage on a perfectly lined up bite and other times I'm getting a 75 on a bite when the marine is on the left or right side of my screen. I'm either biting between the marines legs, thus only hitting the 25 bite cone or I don't even know. But I'm back to having to look up to bite them in the back to guarantee a 75 damage bite, such a pain in my ass. All they needed to do was make the bite cone a box and adjust its size and I would have been happy.
---
While I wouldn't mind actually having scaling in this game. The real problem lies with Alien tech being complete utter garbage AKA ######. Aliens don't even scale with upgrades because the vast majority of them don't even work in combat or just plain terrible. Aliens "superior mobility" doesn't even exist because marines have sprint. No res while dead penalizes aliens far more than marines. Not to mention how fast marines respawn compared to aliens. There are so many problems that still exist in this game that's stacked against aliens that causes such boring, stale, terrible gameplay that's been argued over a dozen times that is still left in the game for god knows why. I knew 224 wasn't going to solve anything because they've refused to listen to feedback the last 24 patches. Alien game play is going to be a laughing stock to non-beta players come 1.0 release.
Marines is the game's easy mode. There is no denying that.
----
Also, if marines crying about how they couldn't one shot skulks when the shotgun cone/dmg was changed wasn't clear indication that the vast majority of marine players only wanted easy mode in this game, I don't know what to tell you. There is a reason why the same constant topic starters that complained about Aliens being "op" have stopped posting is because they got the easy mode that they wanted. The only time they come out of the wood works is when players start taking about how bad alien gameplay is and they try shouting those players down with the usual drivel they post.
Here are some of my favorites:
"Aliens are not suppose to scale! That's why there are higher lifeforms!" Discounting that lmg basic marines scale with weapon and armor upgrades, and so do higher tier weapons.
"Aliens don't need hive teleport/don't need to move faster!" Discounting the fact that axe marines run nearly just as fast as skulks, or the fact that they have phase gates and beacon that makes moving around the map easy and with very little risk to bases (or dying).
Yeah, that was my mind too, maybe aliens got less health at start with one hive, but like XX% more health and armor each hive.
So with XX hives, aliens hp/armor increase, that would make skulks in late games same effective as armor level 3 marines.
No they dont.
Edit: After actually reading OP allow me to amend:
No they dont, but you might.
Compared to in 223? Skulks are definitely much stronger (perhaps in part because they had the time to get used to trying to land a bite in 223).
But honestly, even as marine, I don't have a problem with this. When I'm not checking the corners and a good skulk ambushes me, I get annihilated; which is how I think it should be.
Thanks bro <3
No they dont.
Edit: After actually reading OP allow me to amend:
No they dont, but you might.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, honestly i played a couple hours straight on aliens and they do seem improved, but i still think lerks die too easily and very late game skulks seem a bit too ineffective. Now that I have decent fps, marines dont teleport around, glancing bites are in etc it's not nearly as god AWFUL 223 was (and it was ###### bad.) lol.
Not going to change my OP though because I still think aliens need to scale (even just a bit), be faster, and be smaller lol. Alien evolutions also kinda weak and should be improved.
You can overcome this with skill now that the game runs well and people aren't lagging all over the screen but come on. It still requires wayyyyyy more skill to play alien for less results.
224 is PLAYABLE, i commend the team for making a reasonably decently balanced patch for once.
I predict 35-45% alien wins.
Only games they lose seem to be when there is confusion over who is comm, nobody gorges, and/or when 2-3 marines run rush across the map without building anything
I do think that marine-aiming has improved because of performance gains (and maybe the tracers help some too?)
I think that the improvement in spike damage is great as is the glancing bite... it makes playing a skulk feel much better
However, I must agree with many who have pointed out that the net <i>feels</i> like a wash... maybe even a little worse for skulks at range. I find that <i>IF</i> I can close I am way more deadly... however, I find that closing is <i>significantly</i> harder to do.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
And this is why we say there is no reasoning or using logic with you.
You say you want to see return of focus...but that skulks should not scale.
Hate to break it to you but adding focus is adding an attack scaling for skulks.
You seem to infer that playing skulk late game is something that good players avoid and only poor players have to suffer with "if you just HAVE to play skulk", sorry but we are not all 1337 and can perma fade.
Heck most of us suck balls as fade and lerk, being that we dont get to spend a lot of time practicing (actually having life outside of games) and are never likely to be good enough not to die...especially when playing against more serious players.
MF you say skulks are in easy mode...heck you thought they where easy in 223 (based on some of the games I have played with you, for you it may well have been the case).
But to be honest I am not sure I have seen you struggle with any of the alien lifeforms.
As for me I am just an average player who has given up ever wanting to play game competitively (too much grief) and soley play for enjoyment.
As such I will never be able to invest the sort of time you have/do into maintaining such levels of gameplay.
I think skulk bite is about right, show some kindness to us mere mortals) as it allows for players of different levels to actually enjoy landing even glancing blows (not too disimilar to a SG in that way...noob cannon for spray and prey).
Movement is still the weakness of the skulk, a marine feels more agile and easier to control than a skulk once you get up close.
I know I am not the only person on the forums who feels that skulks play like they have lead feet compared to marines.
I am not saying the best players are not scary to encounter even with 223 skulks but that the average player struggled to break even K:D even when the team was winning.
I am sure even you find it more challenging to skulk later in the game, well the rest of us find it damn near impossible. What easy for you at the start to mid game is challenging for most people, by late game....its just masochistic.
Focus in NS1 brought a level of scalability.....whether we have focus or poisened bites it does not matter, the key is that it increases the base attack numbers to account for the increased marine armour.
Aliens can win, bite means base rushes are viable again but as the game goes on your ability to send your base units in and do significant damage decreases, marines always have the ability to push in a group of 6 LMG marines and do significant damage.
I disagree.
And out of 30 games I've played today, marines won like 12 of those.
I do think that marine-aiming has improved because of performance gains (and maybe the tracers help some too?)
I think that the improvement in spike damage is great as is the glancing bite... it makes playing a skulk feel much better
However, I must agree with many who have pointed out that the net <i>feels</i> like a wash... maybe even a little worse for skulks at range. I find that <i>IF</i> I can close I am way more deadly... however, I find that closing is <i>significantly</i> harder to do.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree mostly. I really do not like glancing bite.
For now it seems a bit better, but I would have preferred to just see a increased high damage bite cone between 221-223 size. Now with this glancing bite it can often take 4-5-6 bites to score a kill and its really hard to anticipate how your doing in a 1v1 and if you should run or not. Its also hard to improve because its pretty difficult to actually tell if your scoring good bites or crappy ones. Its nearly impossible to kill a marine thats getting med spammed with 25-50dmg bites.
I don't feel any stronger against marines in general then I did in 223. My higher lifeform play onos excepted actually feels weaker (better performance for marines maybe).
I especially feel like shotguns are becoming a problem as more and more people are becoming highly efficient with them. How is it fair that a marine with a shotgun that gets recycled like 8 times just needs to hit you 1 time whereas you need to bite them 4-5times. A good shotgunner can have enough res to have one for like 3/4 of the game no problem.
For now it seems a bit better, but I would have preferred to just see a increased high damage bite cone between 221-223 size. Now with this glancing bite it can often take 4-5-6 bites to score a kill and its really hard to anticipate how your doing in a 1v1 and if you should run or not. Its also hard to improve because its pretty difficult to actually tell if your scoring good bites or crappy ones. Its nearly impossible to kill a marine thats getting med spammed with 25-50dmg bites.
I don't feel any stronger against marines in general then I did in 223. My higher lifeform play onos excepted actually feels weaker (better performance for marines maybe).
I especially feel like shotguns are becoming a problem as more and more people are becoming highly efficient with them. How is it fair that a marine with a shotgun that gets recycled like 8 times just needs to hit you 1 time whereas you need to bite them 4-5times. A good shotgunner can have enough res to have one for like 3/4 of the game no problem.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<u><b>True words</b></u>, even with carapace you have to be very very lucky to survive against one marine.
Talking about balance is needed, i don't understand these trolls here.
Sure, everyone make mistakes, but stop trolling and hate on people themself, thats just childish!
Fact is, that marines are right now very strong, maybe the good peformence did a lot to this.
It is a beta and we have to talk about that to support the devs!
But writing like "bah shut up" is just stupid and not helpfully...
Yeah, my english sucks so i can't tell everytime what exactly i mean, but at least i try it.
Talking about balance is needed, i don't understand these trolls here.
Sure, everyone make mistakes, but stop trolling and hate on people themself, thats just childish!
Fact is, that marines are right now very strong, maybe the good peformence did a lot to this.
It is a beta and we have to talk about that to support the devs!
But writing like "bah shut up" is just stupid and not helpfully...
Yeah, my english sucks so i can't tell everytime what exactly i mean, but at least i try it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1
And out of 30 games I've played today, marines won like 12 of those.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed.
I played on a server last night with FF. It's horrible for both teams, especially marines.
Skulk ambushes become a cluster f*** of friendly-bite damage, but that's nothing compared to marines. Not once did marines win in that server and it was greatly in part due to FF, a lot of the marine deaths weren't even caused by the aliens.
I played on a server last night with FF. It's horrible for both teams, especially marines.
Skulk ambushes become a cluster f*** of friendly-bite damage, but that's nothing compared to marines. Not once did marines win in that server and it was greatly in part due to FF, a lot of the marine deaths weren't even caused by the aliens.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Meh. The NS1 servers where I am from have always run with FF turned on, and I doubt any of the veteran players here would want that to change in NS2. Personally, I much prefer any mechanic that forces the player to make a choice, rather than firing randomly at everything.
If they ever do add it then it at least shouldn't be a default feature, the amount of grieving that went on in that server was very high - <i>"oh, I don't like those two players in front of me, they picked up my dropped weapon earlier. Oh, I know, I'll kill them with my GL".</i> I expect in v1.0 we're going to get an influx of <i><!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->(what can I say that won't get censored)<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></i> butt holes. I'd rather not see them given the power to team kill.
I noticed alot of marine weapons cost about the same or a little less than alien forms of equal power, yet the weapons get recycled. So the only time it actually looks balanced is when the aliens avoid dieing constantly. Is that a fair assessment?
Egg spawning will be getting some attention soon as well.
My suggestion as performance increases, along with marine aim - is to increase base speeds for life forms as they were originally slowed for performance reasons. Aliens need every bit of mobility that they can get, and if skulk and lerk got their speed increased by say one or two digits I believe it would go a long way. Especially considering the larger skulk in NS2. (Also, the lerk was recently slowed from 13 to 11)
Egg spawning will be getting some attention soon as well.
My suggestion as performance increases, along with marine aim - is to increase base speeds for life forms as they were originally slowed for performance reasons. Aliens need every bit of mobility that they can get, and if skulk and lerk got their speed increased by say one or two digits I believe it would go a long way. Especially considering the larger skulk in NS2. (Also, the lerk was recently slowed from 13 to 11)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Focus won't matter as long as Armories heal armor.
skulk is a predator, it's build for speed, basic speed should defenitly be twice as fast as an armor-equiped human.
(skulk vs sprinting marine)
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and it helps in bunnyhop fighting scenarios.
would it help to fix non player scaling spawn rates of eggs? Yes.
Would it "not matter" as long as there is sprint? No. ofc it would matter.
Same goes for focus. A JP in air isn't using the armory, sixty watt man. :)
Yea while I concur that sprint ruins a lot of things, it would be hard to balance without it now considering everything built around it. (extractor hp, no electric extractors, structure prices and even alien maturation times.)
You're right, it would help. Reevaluating wave spawns would do some good as well as increased speed, but I don't think it's just the aliens that need to be changed here.
General marine mobility is a massive factor. Armories healing marines to full in seconds, and weapon recycling due to said mobility.
I'd argue that marine pres is an issue to, allowing an entire marine team to go shotguns at no cost to tres requirements like upgrade timings.