<!--quoteo(post=1996977:date=Oct 25 2012, 03:50 PM:name=VeNeM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VeNeM @ Oct 25 2012, 03:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1996977"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Which is hilarious since I'm not the only one stating the obvious, skulks aren't supposed to scale the whole game and no matter how many times it's argued it doesn't make it true.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then why should LMG scale? It's a base 'unit' just like the skulk.
<i>I'm not for or against it, but as some one who plays aliens/marines 50/50, I do think aliens need something to balance them a bit more. Should be noted I haven't got to play 224 yet though.</i>
<!--quoteo(post=1997006:date=Oct 25 2012, 06:42 PM:name=tk-421)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tk-421 @ Oct 25 2012, 06:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1997006"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm also in the camp that skulks don't need to scale to change the balance of the late game.
Very, very much in favor of preselecting upgrades before hatching. That would be fantastic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I also agree, xeno just need to be stronger so khamms actually try to rush it and do some substantial damage.
<!--quoteo(post=1997007:date=Oct 25 2012, 04:42 PM:name=azurescorch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (azurescorch @ Oct 25 2012, 04:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1997007"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Then why should LMG scale? It's a base 'unit' just like the skulk.
<i>I'm not for or against it, but as some one who plays aliens/marines 50/50, I do think aliens need something to balance them a bit more. Should be noted I haven't got to play 224 yet though.</i><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then why shouldn't Marines be able to wall walk and leap? Whilst we are at it give Onos duel miniguns and make the CC heal nearby marines.
Because if one unit in the game has a certain benefit it should be mirrored exactly on all classes in both teams.
<!--quoteo(post=1997012:date=Oct 25 2012, 04:51 PM:name=Onii-chan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Onii-chan @ Oct 25 2012, 04:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1997012"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I also agree, xeno just need to be stronger so khamms actually try to rush it and do some substantial damage.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its a little difficult to rush a 3 hive ability... Currently the reason Xeno sucks is because of: LOOOOONG alien spawn times, no res whilst dead, cant bite whilst using xeno. Current damage isn't the problem.
<!--quoteo(post=1996992:date=Oct 25 2012, 10:05 AM:name=Reeke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Reeke @ Oct 25 2012, 10:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1996992"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'l agree with VeneM that skulks don't need to scale. HOWEVER...
-Being able to preselect upgrades before spawning is a good idea IMO -The base skulk needs some movement love. It handles like a bus full of fat kids and decent marines constantly out maneuver them while being hell to track. There was another thread that suggested the amount of aircontrol marines have is too much, either way something has to give here.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this i can agree on. preselected upgrades could work if done right. and movement/collision from what ive read so far about 224 wasnt really fixed so.. who knows, maybe this is a permanent problem..
one thing i DID notice about marines though recently, they can backpeddle WAY too fast. which makes it even easier to kite in CQB. i would suggest a small speed reduction in backpeddle (yes this has been discussed before but this needs to be revisited). havent played 224 yet but will later.
<!--quoteo(post=1997012:date=Oct 25 2012, 10:51 AM:name=Onii-chan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Onii-chan @ Oct 25 2012, 10:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1997012"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I also agree, xeno just need to be stronger so khamms actually try to rush it and do some substantial damage.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i would like to see focus added back in as if you just HAVE to play skulk late game , focus helps immensely (even though the drawback is that you are left wide open between attacks so you have to move very well). a shotgunner with good aim will still blow a skulk away but an lmger might have a really tough time with a cele focus skulk.
+1 for the return of super skulks lol
and +1 for a damage increase for xeno, or fix it so that it operates like ns1. trigger and youre a moving time bomb (able to bite and attack until detonation) . those were fun runs
1) I would like the Crag to heal better as another poster stated. 2) Also I would like to see shifts be placed anywhere without having to be on infestation. This would make it similar to a phase gate to some degree. 3) Give the lerk a primal scream that disorientates / hallucinate marines THROUGH walls given a directional cone and distance for a short period of time. This would be something that would need to be researched in one of the tiers and be 2 hive based. 4) Increase base skulk speed 10% 5) Let alien players select at least 1 upgrade prior to spawning and be able to select hive / shift spawn location.
The bite usually feels better, I think the times it doesn't are related to lag compensation.
I've played about 12 games of 224 so far, 2 of them were the epic back and forth kinds I love so much. But a lot of them fell victim to marines spawn camping the aliens.
If the marines roll in with exos and arcs, and you fight back with onos and fades, but they take the hive, both teams will say 'gg', because it was fun.
However, if the marines sit in your hive killing eggs and spawn camping, nobody is really having fun. I suppose the marines can be having fun in a troll kind of way.
Spawn camping should not be a valid strategy, it is not fun.
<!--quoteo(post=1997096:date=Oct 25 2012, 07:33 PM:name=Proton)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Proton @ Oct 25 2012, 07:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1997096"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The bite usually feels better, I think the times it doesn't are related to lag compensation.
I've played about 12 games of 224 so far, 2 of them were the epic back and forth kinds I love so much. But a lot of them fell victim to marines spawn camping the aliens.
If the marines roll in with exos and arcs, and you fight back with onos and fades, but they take the hive, both teams will say 'gg', because it was fun.
However, if the marines sit in your hive killing eggs and spawn camping, nobody is really having fun. I suppose the marines can be having fun in a troll kind of way.
Spawn camping should not be a valid strategy, it is not fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think this is the most important thing to fix right now.
Seems very powerful now, those spikes cut through any armour level, and the bite is really fast. I can't tell if its overpowered, or if its just the way its meant to be. Either way, there is definite incentive to not just save for fade.
<!--quoteo(post=1997124:date=Oct 25 2012, 02:07 PM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Oct 25 2012, 02:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1997124"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What is everyone's take on the Lerk?
Seems very powerful now, those spikes cut through any armour level, and the bite is really fast. I can't tell if its overpowered, or if its just the way its meant to be. Either way, there is definite incentive to not just save for fade.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lerk is certainly very solid now. As for aliens even if they do suck they suck considerably less than they did.
<!--quoteo(post=1997013:date=Oct 25 2012, 04:51 PM:name=PsympleJester)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PsympleJester @ Oct 25 2012, 04:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1997013"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Then why shouldn't Marines be able to leap? <!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><i>*snip* </i><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--> and make the CC heal nearby marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To get leap & blink you need two hives, jet-packs need two command stations. Armouries are normally based near CCs. I see these as asymmetric parallels.
Yes, I know this game is meant to be asymmetrical by nature and not everything should be mirrored. It's actually one of the things I enjoy about the game (it means if I get bored playing as one race the other race provides a difference experience). I am merely stating my opinion on the balance and if it ever shifts to where aliens are OP, I will call for balance tweaks to address that too.
I also stated that I haven't played<i> this build</i>, I'm only going by what I've read so far.
lerk's shoot is great now, still takes a while to kill things, but finally turns back marines instead of them just thinking they're stubbing their toes
<!--quoteo(post=1997112:date=Oct 25 2012, 12:51 PM:name=antacid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (antacid @ Oct 25 2012, 12:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1997112"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Aliens just won 3 games in a row where I was playing so I don't know what this OP is talking about.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> its all relative man
played 5 rounds of 223 yesterday, aliens won 3 of them in a row.
<!--quoteo(post=1996771:date=Oct 25 2012, 12:27 PM:name=unkind)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (unkind @ Oct 25 2012, 12:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1996771"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1. The skulk dies in less than 1 second to like 1/3 of the base marine gun (which it hitscan)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> So true, really :( I have the feeling it don't matter which weapon upgrades marines got, they kill the skulk, gorge and Lerk very fast. Don't understand why they decided to do like this. I notice also that in B 224 Marines rush the hive a lot and there is some spawn bug too, but that has nothing to do with the rush.
<!--quoteo(post=1997137:date=Oct 25 2012, 08:12 PM:name=VeNeM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VeNeM @ Oct 25 2012, 08:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1997137"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->its all relative man
played 5 rounds of 223 yesterday, aliens won 3 of them in a row.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Nope its not relative...gee! Only because aliens won, don't mean its balanced or aliens are op. It matters how aliens won and most times they just won because marines play terrible. I have the feeling that playing marines is very easy but most people don't know how to play them, for example 1 of like 7 Exo players know, they can walk over eggs to smash them...even if i tell them, they don't do it. There so many things marines can do, to win fast, but people don't do it. But as alien, you need ALOT teamplay, otherwise you lose. So i have the feeling playing aliens is like on hard difficult and marines on easy. I mean the marine rifle and weapons did so many damage, even without any weapon upgrade!
Edit: Ok the rifle need 9 hits (of 50 bullets in one clip) to kill a skulk with weapon upgrade 0, which means you can kill 5 skulks with one clip in ~3,5 seconds. Weapon upgrade 1: 9 hits, no diffrence, ehm weird, bug? Weapon upgrade 2: 8 hits Weapon upgrade 3: 7 hits Of course the range also counts, but shotgun kills at weapon upgrade 0 every skulk with one hit on close range (~3 meters/9 feet)
<!--quoteo(post=1997167:date=Oct 25 2012, 01:53 PM:name=Price)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price @ Oct 25 2012, 01:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1997167"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Nope its not relative...gee! Only because aliens won, don't mean its balanced or aliens are op. It matters how aliens won and most times they just won because marines play terrible.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
wow, you cant have it both ways. constantly hammering how much aliens lose and if someone just happens to question what factor alien strats had in said loss its all *BWARRR HARRR** SHAADDAAP TROLL ALIEN IS TEH LOSE THIS PATCH!
But when aliens win a round its ignored? Teams werent stacked, they were 15-20 wins which went on to be 2 straight wins for marines. we won because we didnt let them sit on res and tech up plus we took hives, controlled area and evolved to higher lifeforms. we constantly had gorges blocking access to areas and healing. we had decent lerks and then endgame we had a competent com who used drifters + onos and whatever that upgrade is that spams fake lifeforms. and this was 223 not 224. no crutches were used in the making of those wins.
marines need just as much teamplay to win. if youre getting egg locked by one guy then its your team that is bad not some imaginary tech issue, scaling issue, dev issue. there are SO many ways for aliens to win early, they simply dont do them. i cannot tell you how many times im on alien and skulk after skulk will run STRAIGHT DOWN TO SERVER OR WAREHOUSE through Ntunnel where the sam 3-4 marines are just sitting there waiting for them. and when they die guess what.. *cry* marine op marine op *cry* meanwhile those same skulks could be in the marine base (its like some of you dont get there are vents that you can take and literally never be touched all game). crying for nerfs every patch isnt going to fix the overall problem that alien players just dont *get* how to play as skulk. too many rounds of COD have ingrained into these players that they should run straight for the enemy gung ho and if they die "x" is op. nvm the fact that skulks are loud as hell, and you have more than enough time to prepare for an attack.
<!--quoteo(post=1997167:date=Oct 25 2012, 08:53 PM:name=Price)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price @ Oct 25 2012, 08:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1997167"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ok the rifle need 9 hits (of 50 bullets in one clip) to kill a skulk with weapon upgrade 0, which means you can kill 5 skulks with one clip in ~3,5 seconds. Weapon upgrade 1: 9 hits, no diffrence, ehm weird, bug? Weapon upgrade 2: 8 hits Weapon upgrade 3: 7 hits Of course the range also counts, but shotgun kills at weapon upgrade 0 every skulk with one hit on close range (~3 meters/9 feet)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1997197:date=Oct 25 2012, 09:18 PM:name=VeNeM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VeNeM @ Oct 25 2012, 09:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1997197"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->wow, you cant have it both ways. constantly hammering how much aliens lose and if someone just happens to question what factor alien strats had in said loss its all *BWARRR HARRR** SHAADDAAP TROLL ALIEN IS TEH LOSE THIS PATCH!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> *insert facepalm here* Every player who really play the game know how aliens are right now. I play and watched a lot of games since the game was alpha. The game changed so much, that marines are dominating... <!--quoteo(post=1997199:date=Oct 25 2012, 09:20 PM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Oct 25 2012, 09:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1997199"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How do you have 1200 posts. How.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> ...
<!--quoteo(post=1997201:date=Oct 25 2012, 09:21 PM:name=Price)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price @ Oct 25 2012, 09:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1997201"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And the trolling starts, maybe some hate posts because im german? Oh yeah please!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The number of bullets it takes to kill a skulk hasn't changed since NS1.
<!--quoteo(post=1996822:date=Oct 25 2012, 07:37 AM:name=phoenixbbs)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (phoenixbbs @ Oct 25 2012, 07:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1996822"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The biggest thing I think I'd like to see re-introduced is the ability to parasite structures - which made them useful by themselves by giving your team a visibility advantage (ok, so marines can scan, but it costs)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree 100%. I very much would like to have them added back in, even if the structures only stay parasited for a short time.
typical alien game - 1. slowly build up res while trying to maintain 1-1 ratio against marines and keep them away from your buildings/hive 2. finally get fade, get 5 kills and die, never get another fade till next game
marine game - 1. spawn, feel like a badass, kill skulks while half paying attention, not dying this round feels totally possible 2. get shotties/gls and jps all game, you always have enough resources
I think resource retention and the fact that aliens are 100% linear with it is probably the biggest issue.
Vast majority of game spent skulking vs increasingly powerful marines that can kill you from instantly to 1/2 second with all their weapons. How this is even remotely fair boggles my mind. 4 bites even if landed perfectly (not going to happen) is still out-dpsd by all marine guns. This kinda BS (imo) will fly for super veterans of this game that know all the maps and all the values for everything and NS1 but for new players they're going to say ###### this stupid game.
Marines are also more suited to teamplay, aliens SHOULD be effective alone, they're designed to go into vents and use their movement etc but it's cancelled out because well, they suck.
Part of the issue here is that the Kharaa suffer seem to suffer more from the "no pres while dead" mechanic. Marines spend less time dead the vast majority of the time, even if they're doing dumb suicide tactics, and their "free lifeform" <i>does</i> scale with armor/weapons upgrades, meaning that suicide tactics take longer to kill a marine in the later game.
Starting skulk has 90 effective HP, going up to 130 with Carapace, and his damage remains constant. If he suicides a lot, he never gets a lot of pres to play with, and so cannot "scale" to later marines.
Starting marine has 160 effective HP, going up to 280 with Armor 3, and his damage is nearly 1/3 higher with W3. If he suicides a lot, he never gets a lot of pres to play with, but as the game goes on he becomes much harder to kill, so stays alive longer, and gets more pres, and even if he doesn't ever rack up a lot of pres there's frequently a shotgun or somesuch on the ground from a teammate.
I've commed a decent amount of games on pub servers, where my first investment (when I'm not being a bad comm) is to try and get A3/W3 because it's ALWAYS useful. EVERYTHING the marines do benefits from weapon and armor upgrades. The current game feels pretty well balanced, but that balance feels fragile, and I think that fragility has to do with how skulks are both the backbone of the Kharaa, and the most fragile life form they have, guaranteed to make you spend the most time over time respawning (and not collecting resources).
<!--quoteo(post=1997096:date=Oct 25 2012, 12:33 PM:name=Proton)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Proton @ Oct 25 2012, 12:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1997096"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The bite usually feels better, I think the times it doesn't are related to lag compensation.
I've played about 12 games of 224 so far, 2 of them were the epic back and forth kinds I love so much. But a lot of them fell victim to marines spawn camping the aliens.
If the marines roll in with exos and arcs, and you fight back with onos and fades, but they take the hive, both teams will say 'gg', because it was fun.
However, if the marines sit in your hive killing eggs and spawn camping, nobody is really having fun. I suppose the marines can be having fun in a troll kind of way.
Spawn camping should not be a valid strategy, it is not fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think killing eggs is an acceptable strategy, but if a skulk pops out and dies instantly because his egg was getting shot, he should have a greatly accelerated respawn time. Going to the back of the queue because of that is very frustrating.
i rly dont like to give u this troll answer but in this case it fits perfectly... "Learn to play"
Alien is all about personal skill. first example: U dont need 3 hits on a marine u only need 2 + 1 para (that changes everythin) u can do the math an ull see that ull only need 3 bites + para later.
playing alien is more than gettin close and spamm bites , get it.
in my opinion ns2 balance(224) is quite fine, there are small problems but its not like "USELESS ALIENS!"
<!--quoteo(post=1997311:date=Oct 25 2012, 11:39 PM:name=StreifenHirnchen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (StreifenHirnchen @ Oct 25 2012, 11:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1997311"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->U dont need 3 hits on a marine u only need 2 + 1 para (that changes everythin)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh, i will see how you parasite a marine and bite him. It's funny because most skulks who parasite me, thats the last thing they did...then they wait for spawning...while you switch to parasite, parasite a marine and switch back and start biting you are dead. What the Heck is ull? Weird speaking.
<!--quoteo(post=1997311:date=Oct 25 2012, 11:39 PM:name=StreifenHirnchen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (StreifenHirnchen @ Oct 25 2012, 11:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1997311"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->that ull only need 3 bites + para later.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I am really not sure if trolling or serious...
It is hard to explain but i try. Lets say marines and aliens have half of the map with 2 tech points and e.g. 3 rts. The problem is, that marines scale a lot over time with the commander, aliens don't. While the commander spend all tres, the player have later, after 12 minutes just spend 20 for shotgun or 10 res for jetpacks or 30 for beeing shotgun jetpack marine, which is like fade, but cost 20 less res and you can pickup (or your mate) the weapon again, so at least 10 res. For aliens you could go lerk, but lerk die in one or two hits, with spikes and bite you are a joke compared to shotgun and jetpack marines. For fade, you need 20 more res, you understand what i mean? It's hard for me to translate, im out of training. I mean, marine player don't need much res, but aliens need much, because the marine commander did the most, on alien side, the commander can do spawn alien eggs, but thats not the point. Now you mention the price of a prototype and jetpack research. Ok then lets mention a second hive cost 40, same as a prototype lab, a command station cost just 15 res. Leap cost 25 res, a jetpackresearch also cost 25 res, is it really fair? There many other problems, like healing a alien structure, marines can simply buy a welder, everyone! But aliens? How can aliens heal a hive or a structure? They can not, because they need 10 res and change the lifeform. These are just some problems. It is a beta, we know...its not balance bla bla ;-) I don't say balance is hard, but it is true that marines are way more powerful at the moment.
Comments
Very, very much in favor of preselecting upgrades before hatching. That would be fantastic.
Then why should LMG scale? It's a base 'unit' just like the skulk.
<i>I'm not for or against it, but as some one who plays aliens/marines 50/50, I do think aliens need something to balance them a bit more. Should be noted I haven't got to play 224 yet though.</i>
Very, very much in favor of preselecting upgrades before hatching. That would be fantastic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I also agree, xeno just need to be stronger so khamms actually try to rush it and do some substantial damage.
<i>I'm not for or against it, but as some one who plays aliens/marines 50/50, I do think aliens need something to balance them a bit more. Should be noted I haven't got to play 224 yet though.</i><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then why shouldn't Marines be able to wall walk and leap?
Whilst we are at it give Onos duel miniguns and make the CC heal nearby marines.
Because if one unit in the game has a certain benefit it should be mirrored exactly
on all classes in both teams.
<!--quoteo(post=1997012:date=Oct 25 2012, 04:51 PM:name=Onii-chan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Onii-chan @ Oct 25 2012, 04:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1997012"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I also agree, xeno just need to be stronger so khamms actually try to rush it and do some substantial damage.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its a little difficult to rush a 3 hive ability...
Currently the reason Xeno sucks is because of: LOOOOONG alien spawn times, no res whilst dead, cant bite whilst using xeno.
Current damage isn't the problem.
-Being able to preselect upgrades before spawning is a good idea IMO
-The base skulk needs some movement love. It handles like a bus full of fat kids and decent marines constantly out maneuver them while being hell to track. There was another thread that suggested the amount of aircontrol marines have is too much, either way something has to give here.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this i can agree on. preselected upgrades could work if done right. and movement/collision from what ive read so far about 224 wasnt really fixed so.. who knows, maybe this is a permanent problem..
one thing i DID notice about marines though recently, they can backpeddle WAY too fast. which makes it even easier to kite in CQB. i would suggest a small speed reduction in backpeddle (yes this has been discussed before but this needs to be revisited). havent played 224 yet but will later.
i would like to see focus added back in as if you just HAVE to play skulk late game , focus helps immensely (even though the drawback is that you are left wide open between attacks so you have to move very well). a shotgunner with good aim will still blow a skulk away but an lmger might have a really tough time with a cele focus skulk.
+1 for the return of super skulks lol
and +1 for a damage increase for xeno, or fix it so that it operates like ns1. trigger and youre a moving time bomb (able to bite and attack until detonation) . those were fun runs
2) Also I would like to see shifts be placed anywhere without having to be on infestation. This would make it similar to a phase gate to some degree.
3) Give the lerk a primal scream that disorientates / hallucinate marines THROUGH walls given a directional cone and distance for a short period of time. This would be something that would need to be researched in one of the tiers and be 2 hive based.
4) Increase base skulk speed 10%
5) Let alien players select at least 1 upgrade prior to spawning and be able to select hive / shift spawn location.
I've played about 12 games of 224 so far, 2 of them were the epic back and forth kinds I love so much. But a lot of them fell victim to marines spawn camping the aliens.
If the marines roll in with exos and arcs, and you fight back with onos and fades, but they take the hive, both teams will say 'gg', because it was fun.
However, if the marines sit in your hive killing eggs and spawn camping, nobody is really having fun. I suppose the marines can be having fun in a troll kind of way.
Spawn camping should not be a valid strategy, it is not fun.
I've played about 12 games of 224 so far, 2 of them were the epic back and forth kinds I love so much. But a lot of them fell victim to marines spawn camping the aliens.
If the marines roll in with exos and arcs, and you fight back with onos and fades, but they take the hive, both teams will say 'gg', because it was fun.
However, if the marines sit in your hive killing eggs and spawn camping, nobody is really having fun. I suppose the marines can be having fun in a troll kind of way.
Spawn camping should not be a valid strategy, it is not fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think this is the most important thing to fix right now.
Seems very powerful now, those spikes cut through any armour level, and the bite is really fast. I can't tell if its overpowered, or if its just the way its meant to be. Either way, there is definite incentive to not just save for fade.
Seems very powerful now, those spikes cut through any armour level, and the bite is really fast. I can't tell if its overpowered, or if its just the way its meant to be. Either way, there is definite incentive to not just save for fade.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lerk is certainly very solid now. As for aliens even if they do suck they suck considerably less than they did.
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><i>*snip* </i><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
and make the CC heal nearby marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To get leap & blink you need two hives, jet-packs need two command stations. Armouries are normally based near CCs. I see these as asymmetric parallels.
Yes, I know this game is meant to be asymmetrical by nature and not everything should be mirrored. It's actually one of the things I enjoy about the game (it means if I get bored playing as one race the other race provides a difference experience). I am merely stating my opinion on the balance and if it ever shifts to where aliens are OP, I will call for balance tweaks to address that too.
I also stated that I haven't played<i> this build</i>, I'm only going by what I've read so far.
makes a great anti-shotgun unit finally!
its all relative man
played 5 rounds of 223 yesterday, aliens won 3 of them in a row.
So true, really :(
I have the feeling it don't matter which weapon upgrades marines got, they kill the skulk, gorge and Lerk very fast.
Don't understand why they decided to do like this.
I notice also that in B 224 Marines rush the hive a lot and there is some spawn bug too, but that has nothing to do with the rush.
<!--quoteo(post=1997137:date=Oct 25 2012, 08:12 PM:name=VeNeM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VeNeM @ Oct 25 2012, 08:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1997137"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->its all relative man
played 5 rounds of 223 yesterday, aliens won 3 of them in a row.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nope its not relative...gee!
Only because aliens won, don't mean its balanced or aliens are op.
It matters how aliens won and most times they just won because marines play terrible.
I have the feeling that playing marines is very easy but most people don't know how to play them, for example 1 of like 7 Exo players know, they can walk over eggs to smash them...even if i tell them, they don't do it.
There so many things marines can do, to win fast, but people don't do it.
But as alien, you need ALOT teamplay, otherwise you lose.
So i have the feeling playing aliens is like on hard difficult and marines on easy.
I mean the marine rifle and weapons did so many damage, even without any weapon upgrade!
Edit:
Ok the rifle need 9 hits (of 50 bullets in one clip) to kill a skulk with weapon upgrade 0, which means you can kill 5 skulks with one clip in ~3,5 seconds.
Weapon upgrade 1: 9 hits, no diffrence, ehm weird, bug?
Weapon upgrade 2: 8 hits
Weapon upgrade 3: 7 hits
Of course the range also counts, but shotgun kills at weapon upgrade 0 every skulk with one hit on close range (~3 meters/9 feet)
Only because aliens won, don't mean its balanced or aliens are op.
It matters how aliens won and most times they just won because marines play terrible.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
wow, you cant have it both ways. constantly hammering how much aliens lose and if someone just happens to question what factor alien strats had in said loss its all *BWARRR HARRR** SHAADDAAP TROLL ALIEN IS TEH LOSE THIS PATCH!
But when aliens win a round its ignored? Teams werent stacked, they were 15-20 wins which went on to be 2 straight wins for marines. we won because we didnt let them sit on res and tech up plus we took hives, controlled area and evolved to higher lifeforms. we constantly had gorges blocking access to areas and healing. we had decent lerks and then endgame we had a competent com who used drifters + onos and whatever that upgrade is that spams fake lifeforms. and this was 223 not 224. no crutches were used in the making of those wins.
marines need just as much teamplay to win. if youre getting egg locked by one guy then its your team that is bad not some imaginary tech issue, scaling issue, dev issue. there are SO many ways for aliens to win early, they simply dont do them. i cannot tell you how many times im on alien and skulk after skulk will run STRAIGHT DOWN TO SERVER OR WAREHOUSE through Ntunnel where the sam 3-4 marines are just sitting there waiting for them. and when they die guess what.. *cry* marine op marine op *cry* meanwhile those same skulks could be in the marine base (its like some of you dont get there are vents that you can take and literally never be touched all game). crying for nerfs every patch isnt going to fix the overall problem that alien players just dont *get* how to play as skulk. too many rounds of COD have ingrained into these players that they should run straight for the enemy gung ho and if they die "x" is op. nvm the fact that skulks are loud as hell, and you have more than enough time to prepare for an attack.
Weapon upgrade 1: 9 hits, no diffrence, ehm weird, bug?
Weapon upgrade 2: 8 hits
Weapon upgrade 3: 7 hits
Of course the range also counts, but shotgun kills at weapon upgrade 0 every skulk with one hit on close range (~3 meters/9 feet)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How do you have 1200 posts. How.
*insert facepalm here*
Every player who really play the game know how aliens are right now.
I play and watched a lot of games since the game was alpha.
The game changed so much, that marines are dominating...
<!--quoteo(post=1997199:date=Oct 25 2012, 09:20 PM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Oct 25 2012, 09:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1997199"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How do you have 1200 posts. How.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
...
The number of bullets it takes to kill a skulk hasn't changed since NS1.
At least his are constructive posts....
Hey... I have <b>some </b>constructive posts.
I agree 100%. I very much would like to have them added back in, even if the structures only stay parasited for a short time.
1. slowly build up res while trying to maintain 1-1 ratio against marines and keep them away from your buildings/hive
2. finally get fade, get 5 kills and die, never get another fade till next game
marine game -
1. spawn, feel like a badass, kill skulks while half paying attention, not dying this round feels totally possible
2. get shotties/gls and jps all game, you always have enough resources
I think resource retention and the fact that aliens are 100% linear with it is probably the biggest issue.
Vast majority of game spent skulking vs increasingly powerful marines that can kill you from instantly to 1/2 second with all their weapons. How this is even remotely fair boggles my mind. 4 bites even if landed perfectly (not going to happen) is still out-dpsd by all marine guns. This kinda BS (imo) will fly for super veterans of this game that know all the maps and all the values for everything and NS1 but for new players they're going to say ###### this stupid game.
Marines are also more suited to teamplay, aliens SHOULD be effective alone, they're designed to go into vents and use their movement etc but it's cancelled out because well, they suck.
Starting skulk has 90 effective HP, going up to 130 with Carapace, and his damage remains constant. If he suicides a lot, he never gets a lot of pres to play with, and so cannot "scale" to later marines.
Starting marine has 160 effective HP, going up to 280 with Armor 3, and his damage is nearly 1/3 higher with W3. If he suicides a lot, he never gets a lot of pres to play with, but as the game goes on he becomes much harder to kill, so stays alive longer, and gets more pres, and even if he doesn't ever rack up a lot of pres there's frequently a shotgun or somesuch on the ground from a teammate.
I've commed a decent amount of games on pub servers, where my first investment (when I'm not being a bad comm) is to try and get A3/W3 because it's ALWAYS useful. EVERYTHING the marines do benefits from weapon and armor upgrades. The current game feels pretty well balanced, but that balance feels fragile, and I think that fragility has to do with how skulks are both the backbone of the Kharaa, and the most fragile life form they have, guaranteed to make you spend the most time over time respawning (and not collecting resources).
I've played about 12 games of 224 so far, 2 of them were the epic back and forth kinds I love so much. But a lot of them fell victim to marines spawn camping the aliens.
If the marines roll in with exos and arcs, and you fight back with onos and fades, but they take the hive, both teams will say 'gg', because it was fun.
However, if the marines sit in your hive killing eggs and spawn camping, nobody is really having fun. I suppose the marines can be having fun in a troll kind of way.
Spawn camping should not be a valid strategy, it is not fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think killing eggs is an acceptable strategy, but if a skulk pops out and dies instantly because his egg was getting shot, he should have a greatly accelerated respawn time. Going to the back of the queue because of that is very frustrating.
"Learn to play"
Alien is all about personal skill.
first example:
U dont need 3 hits on a marine u only need 2 + 1 para (that changes everythin) u can do the math an ull see that ull only need 3 bites + para later.
playing alien is more than gettin close and spamm bites , get it.
in my opinion ns2 balance(224) is quite fine, there are small problems but its not like "USELESS ALIENS!"
nuff said
Oh, i will see how you parasite a marine and bite him.
It's funny because most skulks who parasite me, thats the last thing they did...then they wait for spawning...while you switch to parasite, parasite a marine and switch back and start biting you are dead.
What the Heck is ull? Weird speaking.
<!--quoteo(post=1997311:date=Oct 25 2012, 11:39 PM:name=StreifenHirnchen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (StreifenHirnchen @ Oct 25 2012, 11:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1997311"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->that ull only need 3 bites + para later.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am really not sure if trolling or serious...
It is hard to explain but i try.
Lets say marines and aliens have half of the map with 2 tech points and e.g. 3 rts.
The problem is, that marines scale a lot over time with the commander, aliens don't.
While the commander spend all tres, the player have later, after 12 minutes just spend 20 for shotgun or 10 res for jetpacks or 30 for beeing shotgun jetpack marine, which is like fade, but cost 20 less res and you can pickup (or your mate) the weapon again, so at least 10 res.
For aliens you could go lerk, but lerk die in one or two hits, with spikes and bite you are a joke compared to shotgun and jetpack marines.
For fade, you need 20 more res, you understand what i mean?
It's hard for me to translate, im out of training.
I mean, marine player don't need much res, but aliens need much, because the marine commander did the most, on alien side, the commander can do spawn alien eggs, but thats not the point.
Now you mention the price of a prototype and jetpack research.
Ok then lets mention a second hive cost 40, same as a prototype lab, a command station cost just 15 res.
Leap cost 25 res, a jetpackresearch also cost 25 res, is it really fair?
There many other problems, like healing a alien structure, marines can simply buy a welder, everyone! But aliens? How can aliens heal a hive or a structure? They can not, because they need 10 res and change the lifeform.
These are just some problems.
It is a beta, we know...its not balance bla bla ;-)
I don't say balance is hard, but it is true that marines are way more powerful at the moment.