Why not play with friendly fire?

Jekt

^

fanatic

We would if we could.

Jekt

There's no simple cvar for it? I thought DAK might have had an option for it at least.
Shame.

GISP

I believe it was tested and found unwanted - eg 1 gorge biling the hives, GLs and flametrowers destroying the bases, and, well other abusive stuff prone to ruin the game experience.

TrC

I would very much want FF on, it would add more than most think. First collision needs to be fixed though.

PsympleJester

Other people think this is a good idea?

Madness....

I always thought they should implement it, I always thought marines should take only a % of the full dmg due to them having armour and their weapons being designed to cut through flesh... I think full FF would be a little insane.

It would also heavily fix the GL as instead of it being perfectly ok for an entire team of GLs to shoot 1 marines feet but that marine not shoot his own feet it would instead be "semi-ok" for any marine to shoot their own feet (they wouldn't die) but instead really bad for the entire team to shoot the same marines feet. (makes alot more sence than the way round we currently have it.)

TinCan

I always liked the system where FF on a mate caused damage to yourself instead.

fanatic

<!--quoteo(post=1995824:date=Oct 23 2012, 11:54 PM:name=GISP)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GISP @ Oct 23 2012, 11:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1995824"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I believe it was tested and found unwanted - eg 1 gorge biling the hives, GLs and flametrowers destroying the bases, and, well other abusive stuff prone to ruin the game experience.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We are not talking about public...

supsu

I was sometime browsing lua and there was FF implemented and it shouldn't be too hard to put on. I could have a look at it and make a cvar for it in ns2stats. I'd very much like to at least test it too and in the end I think not having it is a bit silly; being able to GL your own team mates' legs to prevent skulks killing them is a bit silly to say the least.

wiry

Yes! Thank you zups.

Argathor

It was available for a while in the beta, around b185 from memory, im sure one of the HBZ server had it on?

It was a bit of a mess with public play, but removed all the 'spam' gameplay from both marines and skulks. It was a definate improvement in my opinion, I really enjoyed it.

Dghelneshi

Keep in mind that this is also going to make everything obscuring vision even more frustrating than it already is. E.g. usually you can shoot enemy Skulks through Rupture, Gorge Spit and even Spores by just shooting at your teammates' feet (which you can easily see with the name tag). Of course, making that less useful could also be somewhat desired.

xDragon

AFAIK you just need a global function GetFriendlyFire() to enable it, its something that is supported via my admin system. From my testing with it alot of things do not deal friendly fire, IIRC gls dont damage friendlies or your own structures, bilebomb def doesnt damage your own hive. Fixing those would require a more involved code change, but the big piece is already there with rifles and melee attacks dealing it correctly.

wiry

<!--quoteo(post=1996181:date=Oct 24 2012, 05:58 PM:name=Dghelneshi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dghelneshi @ Oct 24 2012, 05:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1996181"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Keep in mind that this is also going to make everything obscuring vision even more frustrating than it already is. E.g. usually you can shoot enemy Skulks through Rupture, Gorge Spit and even Spores by just shooting at your teammates' feet (which you can easily see with the name tag). Of course, making that less useful could also be somewhat desired.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

All that vision obscuring shouldn't really be there to begin with though.

Yragorn

Marines shooting at each other trying to kill a skulk, Skulk smart lolol

Soul_Rider

As dragon mentioned, some things work with the GetFriendlyFire(), but a lot of the weapons have the do not damage team-mates stuff hardcoded into the functions, so they would need editing.

Also, no-one is looking at the poor aliens.

Spores, bile-bomb, spit, parasite, vortex, stomp. These are all alien distance attacks that would be severely disrupted if friendly fire was on. Also groups of skulks trying to take down a powernode would all kill each other, so now your making a powernode only attackable by a single skulk, which means it's health needs to be drastically lowered.

Or are you saying only Marines should suffer the consequences of friendly-fire?

Friendly fire doesn't work as a mechanic in NS2, without rebalancing everything. Just my opinion, of course :)

xDragon

Worked fine in NS1, which had similar situations... 5 skulks could still bite a powernode and not hit eachother, it would take better coordination from them however.

If your hitting teammates with spit/parasite your doing something wrong... and spores,bile and stomp wouldnt have friendlyfire anyways.

As for it being testing and removed thats just funny, as its never been officially added to the game (only with cheats on).

Soul_Rider

<!--quoteo(post=1997298:date=Oct 25 2012, 10:28 PM:name=xDragon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xDragon @ Oct 25 2012, 10:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1997298"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If your hitting teammates with spit/parasite your doing something wrong... and spores,bile and stomp wouldnt have friendlyfire anyways.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Not if teammates are jumping into your lines of fire... You can't do anything about it.

You can't have friendly fire and only have half the alien attacks damage team mates, that is just plain confusing. Either no friendly fire, or all friendly-fire.

I mean, you might as well say flame throwers won't do friendly damage either because they set fire to the environment, making it impossible for marines to walk into those areas.

Either you add friendly fire, or you don't. You don't do some half-arsed some friendly fire and some not. It's unintuitive.

Jekt

Nonsense, it makes perfect sense for particular abilities to not have friendly fire.

male_fatalities

Just add FF to GL. That thing is an absolute joke, 1 person with a gl can shoot nades at your team mates feet and mop up any skulks

clowning

<!--quoteo(post=1997513:date=Oct 25 2012, 09:03 PM:name=male_fatalities)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (male_fatalities @ Oct 25 2012, 09:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1997513"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just add FF to GL. That thing is an absolute joke, 1 person with a gl can shoot nades at your team mates feet and mop up any skulks<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

AND the flamethrower. Lighting your teammates on fire would be fair I think

frog

<!--quoteo(post=1997397:date=Oct 26 2012, 12:52 AM:name=Jekt)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jekt @ Oct 26 2012, 12:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1997397"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Nonsense, it makes perfect sense for particular abilities to not have friendly fire.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I totally agree. If the aliens took no damage from ostensibly "bacterium-based" attacks like spores, poison, parasites, while physical attacks did indeed deal FF damage, I don't think this would tip the balance much, and it would also fit well conceptually. I agree with the idea of marine FF doing reduced damage. But when marines are defending against a base-rush with jetpacks and GLs and the only thing that's happening is oni are ragdolling, or a guy with a flamethrower is spinning 360 trying to set a nimble skulk on fire while his teammates are crowded around him, it's just sort of silly.

At any rate, though I'd love to see FF-play, I don't think it should ever be canon, rather stay in the mod world. NS isn't exactly renowned for being an "easy" game, and having FF as an integral part would likely mostly serve to aggravate veterans in pub play when new players get over-excited.

KuddlyKalli

<!--coloro:#FFC0CB--><span style="color:#FFC0CB"><!--/coloro-->Yeah, definitely not for pubs or general play. But it could be fun to see the occasional comp match with FF enabled. Ought to spice things up a bit. :P<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->

Techercizer

Isn't the Flamethrower useless enough as it is, though? The last thing we need to do is force people to try to aim that thing around their teammates.

RisingSun

Love the idea of FF. Flamethrower along with GLs would have to have their FF damage reduced by at least 50% enough to discourage reckless use, but not exempt from FF. McGlaspie is working on a MvM mod and might be a good source for a damage model.

Toothy

I see no reason why FF shouldn't be added as a cvar for competitive NS2, it worked just fine in NS1 where the only exceptions were spore and stomp. It adds to the skill ceiling of the game, which will be appreciated by anyone who wants to improve, and stops certain 'cheap' mechanics like the aforementioned GL spamming. It was set to something like 33% damage in NS1 by default, I think, to prevent skulks from virtually one-shotting each other by mistake.

eh?

Uh, everyone is aware the current flamethrower actually does do friendly fire damage already in the friendly fire / cheats enabled mode... right? Really the only thing that needs to be adjusted is grenades and some server commands to tweak it as needed and simplify the lives of server admins.

Techercizer

<!--quoteo(post=1999717:date=Oct 29 2012, 07:59 AM:name=Toothy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Toothy @ Oct 29 2012, 07:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1999717"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I see no reason why FF shouldn't be added as a cvar for competitive NS2, it worked just fine in NS1 where the only exceptions were spore and stomp.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A cvar? Why would you make it a cvar? Did you mean a svar?

When would you ever want to let clients decide if they can hurt their teammates or not?

Dghelneshi

<!--quoteo(post=2000057:date=Oct 29 2012, 08:10 PM:name=Techercizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Techercizer @ Oct 29 2012, 08:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2000057"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A cvar? Why would you make it a cvar? Did you mean a svar?

When would you ever want to let clients decide if they can hurt their teammates or not?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CVAR" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CVAR</a>

I personally always thought it was "console variable".

Techercizer

<!--quoteo(post=2000063:date=Oct 29 2012, 02:15 PM:name=Dghelneshi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dghelneshi @ Oct 29 2012, 02:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2000063"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CVAR" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CVAR</a>

I personally always thought it was "console variable".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Different schools clashing, I guess. I've always used them as ClientVARiable :3

Isn't the wondrous world of programming terminology fun?

antacid

Guy's do you not know about the nanites? Marine bullets de-materialize before they hit their allies due to nanites, therefor there is no friendly fire.