<!--quoteo(post=1996023:date=Oct 24 2012, 11:24 AM:name=Xarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xarius @ Oct 24 2012, 11:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1996023"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If snowballing is really UWE's biggest fear, I'm sure there are mechanics out there that would do well in addressing such concerns. It would truly be a tragedy if RFK did not end up making a comeback in one form or another, it's simply a great mechanic that adds a reward and greater depth to gameplay.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah thank you.
The res model somehow reminds me of this. <center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/l9eeX2Lx1pE"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/l9eeX2Lx1pE" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
<!--quoteo(post=1996097:date=Oct 24 2012, 07:52 AM:name=countbasie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (countbasie @ Oct 24 2012, 07:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1996097"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The res model somehow reminds me of this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1996141:date=Oct 24 2012, 04:07 PM:name=HeatSurge)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (HeatSurge @ Oct 24 2012, 04:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1996141"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How's that? Don't see the connection at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Being AFK yields maximum results. Your best way to rack up pres is to never take active role in the gameplay until you hit the desired res count.
If you don't want to make the pro player more unstoppable, let res for kill be divided to the entire team, gives general insentive to not die as it helps the other team
<!--quoteo(post=1996150:date=Oct 24 2012, 10:17 AM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Oct 24 2012, 10:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1996150"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Being AFK yields maximum results. Your best way to rack up pres is to never take active role in the gameplay until you hit the desired res count.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1996151:date=Oct 24 2012, 10:17 AM:name=maD maX)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (maD maX @ Oct 24 2012, 10:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1996151"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you don't want to make the pro player more unstoppable, let res for kill be divided to the entire team, gives general insentive to not die as it helps the other team<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Marines did need a buff. I think this would accomplish that nicely.
<!--quoteo(post=1996154:date=Oct 24 2012, 03:19 PM:name=CodeCowboy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CodeCowboy @ Oct 24 2012, 03:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1996154"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Its also the best way to lose a game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, must be pretty unpleasant for the other guys in the team.
Especially for the guy who gets pres punished the most for actually being active in the game, taking blows for the team and being the first one to engage in bigger fights.
I dont exactly know what all the fuzz about snowballing is about. As I remember NS1, the longer the game drew on, the more likely an aliens win would come out. This gave me the mindset of "the infestation is spreading, if the marines dont cleanse it fast they will lose". On one hand, we have people complainging aliens are too weak, games get drawn out for too long and on the other hand people dislike exponential development of early game victories (which is how i understand snowballing).
Some of my thoughts: If i am a vanilla marine/skulk, I want to be able to throw my life away for the cause without getting punished. On the other side, a lifeform that didnt cost res, should not give res to the enemy when he kills it. Following the commanders orders, killing valuable opponents/structures should be rewarded to guide new players and reward players for playing as a team. Rewards in terms of ressources should be devided amongst the team. It is not fair, if a skulk gets res for a kill while the other skulks and possibly a healing gorge does not. Even if only the skulk did the dmg the other players might have played a vital part in distracting. The pres system presents a perfect mechanic to reward players. Like stated above, if you have your own money, you also want to have a way to get more money. The res tic from rts is simply not as intuitive as RFK.
RFK allows for bad players or griefers to feed the enemy team leading to constant arguments and butthurt ala DOTA players. It also makes losing teams F4 or just quit playing after a few bad deaths as it guarantees their loss due to superior lifeforms/weapons from the other team.
This is why it is <b>objectively worse</b> than RFND.
As for Xenocide, they'll just have to code it so that you still get res when dead if you died by Xeno.
JektJoin Date: 2012-02-05Member: 143714Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
Feeding argument doesn't fit here at all, we're talking small amounts of resouces to give benefits to someone playing well for a considerable portion of the game. People don't grief such subtle mechanics. This isn't LoL where early feeds lead to huge advantages for the early and mid game.
Saying that people can grief more with one system than the other is a pretty silly thing to use as supporting evidence.
My biggest reason for hating RFD:
The spawn systems are not symmetrical. The RFD system heavily favors marines over aliens at the moment, especially on larger servers. It also rewards a playstyle that, in my opinion, is not team-play focused. It rewards those that avoid risks and engagements, to me in a shooter game this is just counter-intuitive.
And the biggest point I have: It does not stagger life form explosions, which was it's intended purpose. It just seems like a mechanic put in the game to aggravate, nothing else.
The feed argument doesnt apply because skulks and vanilla marines should not give RFK. A feeder would somehow have to amass lots of res himself to feed it to the other team which is only possible if you would hold lots of resnodes.
<!--quoteo(post=1996015:date=Oct 24 2012, 10:50 AM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Oct 24 2012, 10:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1996015"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As far as I'm concerned there is absolutely no evidence that RFK is a valid remedy to the problem of tech explosions. Its even debatable whether or not NS1 did or didn't suffer from tech explosion, but even if it didn't, that was due to the absolutely necessity of lower level lifeforms at all stages of the game, and had very little to do with getting one or two res here and there.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Confident <i>and</i> Ignorant. You should be wearing a hazard sign!
<!--quoteo(post=1996354:date=Oct 24 2012, 10:33 PM:name=Tweadle)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tweadle @ Oct 24 2012, 10:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1996354"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Confident <i>and</i> Ignorant. You should be wearing a hazard sign!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bring me the evidence. Make me a believer.
Did no res on death do anything to break up the tech explosion? Did it even make a dent?
<!--quoteo(post=1996346:date=Oct 24 2012, 10:25 PM:name=bERt0r)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bERt0r @ Oct 24 2012, 10:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1996346"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The feed argument doesnt apply because skulks and vanilla marines should not give RFK. A feeder would somehow have to amass lots of res himself to feed it to the other team which is only possible if you would hold lots of resnodes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If vanilla marines and skulks give no RFK, then the primary reason for implementing RKF (break up tech explosion) is removed.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
Hilariously, Imbalanxd has a point for once. Just implementing RFK won't solve the "lifeform explosion" problem -- not even close. That would require a drastic redesign of core mechanics.
That doesn't mean that a little RFK won't be beneficial for gameplay, though.
Even if RFK is never added to the game I still think RFD is doing more harm than good. It would be better to have neither system than RFD. RFD is basically a system that punishes players for playing the game.
RFD basically punishes new players for trying to learn the game, it also punishes players who are active in the game. But strangely rewards the player who stays afk in the hive while everyone else is fighting. With any luck the game is still going on when he comes back and he can go lerk/fade/onos much sooner than the other players.
RFD also has this nasty side affect of punishing aliens much more than marines since skulks have to engage marines more often to have a chance to defeat them. They usually have higher death count meaning less resources. Considering that the aliens have 2-3 rts most of the game while marines have 5+ they get even further behind. The side affect of this is that players play skulk/gorge 80%+ of their gametime as aliens.
---- I do support RFK. I think that rewarding players for good performance is always a good thing in a game.
<!--quoteo(post=1996363:date=Oct 24 2012, 03:43 PM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Oct 24 2012, 03:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1996363"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Bring me the evidence. Make me a believer.
Did no res on death do anything to break up the tech explosion? Did it even make a dent?
If vanilla marines and skulks give no RFK, then the primary reason for implementing RKF (break up tech explosion) is removed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Tech explosion was never a real issue and still exists in the game, just less obvious. It is a side effect of the core resource mechanics and was never properly adjusted.
Firstly, RFD is bound to make less of an impact than RFK. Even very skilled skulks typically get a kill and then die afterwards or stay outfield to maintain their effectiveness despite being on low health, subsequently getting picked off. The number of deaths that people get doesn't differentiate nearly as much as the number of kills so it's bound to make <i>more</i> of a difference. Additionally, RFK better reflects successful endeavours because it can take into account the fact that a skulk might have monster-killed 3 marines but died to a 4th (RFD would have just punished this skulk anyway).
With regards to me supplying evidence, it's a bit difficult because NS1 <i>is</i> the evidence. All I would be telling you is that it helped in NS1 and all you would be thinking is that it didn't. You'd just happen to be completely wrong and I'd happen to be completely right :). It's also kind of astounding that you can even debate whether tech explosions were an issue in NS1 or not. I kind of get the impression that you barely played the game, no offense.
---
Also, I'd quite like to know whether people who cite RFK as some dreadful snowball mechanic feel the same way about advanced lifeforms in general, purchasing weapons and just about every aspect of NS1 I can think of. It's seems a bit insincere to portray a small +1 RFK as some totally out-of-the-ordinary mechanic that is unique in facilitating skilled stomping when the game is kind of built around the stuff.
<!--quoteo(post=1996374:date=Oct 24 2012, 11:02 PM:name=Tweadle)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tweadle @ Oct 24 2012, 11:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1996374"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->With regards to me supplying evidence, it's a bit difficult because NS1 <i>is</i> the evidence. All I would be telling you is that it helped in NS1 and all you would be thinking is that it didn't. You'd just happen to be completely wrong and I'd happen to be completely right :). It's also kind of astounding that you can even debate whether tech explosions were an issue in NS1 or not. I kind of get the impression that you barely played the game, no offense.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NS1 may or may not have suffered from tech explosion, the remedy for which may or may not have been RFK. I can admit that I'm not omnipotent and could be wrong, which puts me a step ahead of you, at least (more of a leap than a step).
I just find it strange how you can singularly attribute NS1's apparent lack of tech explosion to RFK, amidst a tremendously different economy to what we have now, and then turn around and call it "a small +1 RFK" and not something "totally out-of-the-ordinary". You are essentially taking both sides of the argument in order to win at any cost, without actually making a concerted commitment to a solution. The argument isn't important bro, the outcome is.
Obviously he's not singeling out RFK as the sole reasons there were no tech explosions.. Jesus christ.
Now I do not claim, to know a detailed amount about NS1, but there you had to get a couple of gorges to get some RT's, lerks where actually useful, and some peopled saved for an onos. With a high amount of players there may have been tech explosions to a degree, but nowhere near what we have in NS2 where at a certain mark, 5 fades will pop out simultaniously.
I don't really think any one has a solid solution to fix the explosions except to go back to how it was in NS1, (i.e remove alien commander, make gorges build RT's, etc). At least I haven't read about one that would without a doubt fix the problem.
I think thats 2 seperate issues, one which has no good solution within the current resources system (Lifeform/Tech Explosion), and one which is RFD or No res when dead and RFK... Neither system will fix the Tech Explosion problem, nor should they attempt to as its inherient to the NS2 resource model... What the discussion is about is how RFD punishes playing an active role in the game, and heavily promotes camping, defensive play from arguably the team which needs to play the exact opposite, which is why the aliens suffer so greatly from it. Thats why so many people suggest a SMALL RFK (or atleast the removal of RFD) to fix THAT problem, knowing it will only make ~30seconds difference at best in lifeform timings.
<!--quoteo(post=1996354:date=Oct 24 2012, 10:33 PM:name=Tweadle)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tweadle @ Oct 24 2012, 10:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1996354"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=1996015:date=Oct 24 2012, 11:50 AM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Oct 24 2012, 11:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1996015"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> As far as I'm concerned there is absolutely no evidence that RFK is a valid remedy to the problem of tech explosions. Its even debatable whether or not NS1 did or didn't suffer from tech explosion, but even if it didn't, that was due to the absolutely necessity of lower level lifeforms at all stages of the game, and had very little to do with getting one or two res here and there.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Confident <i>and</i> Ignorant. You should be wearing a hazard sign! <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1996387:date=Oct 24 2012, 11:26 PM:name=wiry)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wiry @ Oct 24 2012, 11:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1996387"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Obviously he's not singeling out RFK as the sole reasons there were no tech explosions.. Jesus christ.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1996388:date=Oct 24 2012, 11:28 PM:name=xDragon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xDragon @ Oct 24 2012, 11:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1996388"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think thats 2 seperate issues, one which has no good solution within the current resources system (Lifeform/Tech Explosion), and one which is RFD or No res when dead and RFK... Neither system will fix the Tech Explosion problem, nor should they attempt to as its inherient to the NS2 resource model... What the discussion is about is how RFD punishes playing an active role in the game, and heavily promotes camping, defensive play from arguably the team which needs to play the exact opposite, which is why the aliens suffer so greatly from it. Thats why so many people suggest a SMALL RFK (or atleast the removal of RFD) to fix THAT problem, knowing it will only make ~30seconds difference at best in lifeform timings.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If 30 seconds is the ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM decrease that can be expected, involving players of the highest skill bracket facing off against complete noobs who failed to plugin their screen correctly, then what can 90% of average players expect? 5 seconds, maybe 10?
It is the same point, over and over again. Is it going to make a big 1 minute+ difference? Yes? That is too powerful and will cause snowballing. No? Then it is pointless to implement so why take the risk?
Yeah, obviously not. I just wrote a response but lost it as I was replying and can't be bothered to write it all out again.
Save to say there are endemic problems behind tech explosions but RFK just happens to be a quick and easy partial fix that doesn't destroy the world. The only reason it gets such bad press as a snowballing mechanic is because of the face-value nature of the "+1" alert. Purchasing weapons/equipment/roles achieves snowballing far more proficiently than +1 RFK could ever hope for.
I dont think the tech explosion is inherently bad actually. The only differences are "Someone's a fade" instead of "they've got fades" or "someones got a shotgun" rather than "they've got shotguns."
You react the same either way. I don't think it makes that huge a difference. What would make a huge difference is some pro player in a pug getting fade super early on and then completely wrecking house. Flayra thought sentries ruined pug games well that would completely destroy them.
I'm not, however, advocating the current p.res system. I think the current system is very backwards, giving more resources to the players that take fewer risks. I think instead p.res should be given to entire teams for accomplishing tasks around the map. Killing structures for example. Rewarding teamwork rather than just rewarding the guys with too much time on their hands or people that are AFK.
Whether tech explosions are bad or not is definitely contentious. It's not <i>inherently</i> bad but I, and even rfk rivals, tend to think that there should be more fluency to the game. Running around happily and scoring frags on skulks and then suddenly not being able to kill anything because 90% of the team just went fade is pretty poor, in my opinion.
The same is true the other way round. It's not that nice to suddenly be faced with a team of exos, especially when there wasn't even some strategic decision from a commander to actually save up for them.
<!--quoteo(post=1996409:date=Oct 24 2012, 11:45 PM:name=ChickenOfWar)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ChickenOfWar @ Oct 24 2012, 11:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1996409"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I dont think the tech explosion is inherently bad actually. The only differences are "Someone's a fade" instead of "they've got fades" or "someones got a shotgun" rather than "they've got shotguns."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its my opinion that the perceived problem lies in the difficulty ramp up. Ideally in a multiplayer game there should be no "difficulty curve". I mean things shouldn't get easier for one team and harder for the other right (within reason)? However the difference between a vanilla skulk and a skulk with carapace and leap, while not being particularly substantial res wise, or in terms of the entire tech tree, is <b>massive </b>in terms of how difficult it is to fight one.
Compare it to other multiplayer games, and I think you will find that it is a rather strange experience.
The reason for the fix is to seperate it somewhat; having all the fades pop at the exact same time makes it exponentially harder to kill one, where if they come out spaced over time (even a small amount, and im talking avg timings, so +/- 30 seconds overall) you have that much more of a chance to kill one.
Comments
Yeah thank you.
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/l9eeX2Lx1pE"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/l9eeX2Lx1pE" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
How's that? Don't see the connection at all.
Being AFK yields maximum results. Your best way to rack up pres is to never take active role in the gameplay until you hit the desired res count.
Its also the best way to lose a game.
Marines did need a buff. I think this would accomplish that nicely.
Yeah, must be pretty unpleasant for the other guys in the team.
Especially for the guy who gets pres punished the most for actually being active in the game, taking blows for the team and being the first one to engage in bigger fights.
On one hand, we have people complainging aliens are too weak, games get drawn out for too long and on the other hand people dislike exponential development of early game victories (which is how i understand snowballing).
Some of my thoughts:
If i am a vanilla marine/skulk, I want to be able to throw my life away for the cause without getting punished. On the other side, a lifeform that didnt cost res, should not give res to the enemy when he kills it.
Following the commanders orders, killing valuable opponents/structures should be rewarded to guide new players and reward players for playing as a team.
Rewards in terms of ressources should be devided amongst the team. It is not fair, if a skulk gets res for a kill while the other skulks and possibly a healing gorge does not. Even if only the skulk did the dmg the other players might have played a vital part in distracting.
The pres system presents a perfect mechanic to reward players. Like stated above, if you have your own money, you also want to have a way to get more money. The res tic from rts is simply not as intuitive as RFK.
It also makes losing teams F4 or just quit playing after a few bad deaths as it guarantees their loss due to superior lifeforms/weapons from the other team.
This is why it is <b>objectively worse</b> than RFND.
As for Xenocide, they'll just have to code it so that you still get res when dead if you died by Xeno.
My biggest reason for hating RFD:
The spawn systems are not symmetrical. The RFD system heavily favors marines over aliens at the moment, especially on larger servers. It also rewards a playstyle that, in my opinion, is not team-play focused. It rewards those that avoid risks and engagements, to me in a shooter game this is just counter-intuitive.
And the biggest point I have: It does not stagger life form explosions, which was it's intended purpose. It just seems like a mechanic put in the game to aggravate, nothing else.
Confident <i>and</i> Ignorant. You should be wearing a hazard sign!
Bring me the evidence. Make me a believer.
Did no res on death do anything to break up the tech explosion? Did it even make a dent?
<!--quoteo(post=1996346:date=Oct 24 2012, 10:25 PM:name=bERt0r)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bERt0r @ Oct 24 2012, 10:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1996346"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The feed argument doesnt apply because skulks and vanilla marines should not give RFK. A feeder would somehow have to amass lots of res himself to feed it to the other team which is only possible if you would hold lots of resnodes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If vanilla marines and skulks give no RFK, then the primary reason for implementing RKF (break up tech explosion) is removed.
That doesn't mean that a little RFK won't be beneficial for gameplay, though.
RFD basically punishes new players for trying to learn the game, it also punishes players who are active in the game. But strangely rewards the player who stays afk in the hive while everyone else is fighting. With any luck the game is still going on when he comes back and he can go lerk/fade/onos much sooner than the other players.
RFD also has this nasty side affect of punishing aliens much more than marines since skulks have to engage marines more often to have a chance to defeat them. They usually have higher death count meaning less resources. Considering that the aliens have 2-3 rts most of the game while marines have 5+ they get even further behind.
The side affect of this is that players play skulk/gorge 80%+ of their gametime as aliens.
----
I do support RFK. I think that rewarding players for good performance is always a good thing in a game.
<!--quoteo(post=1996363:date=Oct 24 2012, 03:43 PM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Oct 24 2012, 03:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1996363"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Bring me the evidence. Make me a believer.
Did no res on death do anything to break up the tech explosion? Did it even make a dent?
If vanilla marines and skulks give no RFK, then the primary reason for implementing RKF (break up tech explosion) is removed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Tech explosion was never a real issue and still exists in the game, just less obvious. It is a side effect of the core resource mechanics and was never properly adjusted.
With regards to me supplying evidence, it's a bit difficult because NS1 <i>is</i> the evidence. All I would be telling you is that it helped in NS1 and all you would be thinking is that it didn't. You'd just happen to be completely wrong and I'd happen to be completely right :). It's also kind of astounding that you can even debate whether tech explosions were an issue in NS1 or not. I kind of get the impression that you barely played the game, no offense.
---
Also, I'd quite like to know whether people who cite RFK as some dreadful snowball mechanic feel the same way about advanced lifeforms in general, purchasing weapons and just about every aspect of NS1 I can think of. It's seems a bit insincere to portray a small +1 RFK as some totally out-of-the-ordinary mechanic that is unique in facilitating skilled stomping when the game is kind of built around the stuff.
NS1 may or may not have suffered from tech explosion, the remedy for which may or may not have been RFK. I can admit that I'm not omnipotent and could be wrong, which puts me a step ahead of you, at least (more of a leap than a step).
I just find it strange how you can singularly attribute NS1's apparent lack of tech explosion to RFK, amidst a tremendously different economy to what we have now, and then turn around and call it "a small +1 RFK" and not something "totally out-of-the-ordinary". You are essentially taking both sides of the argument in order to win at any cost, without actually making a concerted commitment to a solution. The argument isn't important bro, the outcome is.
Now I do not claim, to know a detailed amount about NS1, but there you had to get a couple of gorges to get some RT's, lerks where actually useful, and some peopled saved for an onos. With a high amount of players there may have been tech explosions to a degree, but nowhere near what we have in NS2 where at a certain mark, 5 fades will pop out simultaniously.
I don't really think any one has a solid solution to fix the explosions except to go back to how it was in NS1, (i.e remove alien commander, make gorges build RT's, etc). At least I haven't read about one that would without a doubt fix the problem.
As far as I'm concerned there is absolutely no evidence that RFK is a valid remedy to the problem of tech explosions. Its even debatable whether or not NS1 did or didn't suffer from tech explosion, but even if it didn't, that was due to the absolutely necessity of lower level lifeforms at all stages of the game, and had very little to do with getting one or two res here and there.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Confident <i>and</i> Ignorant. You should be wearing a hazard sign!
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1996387:date=Oct 24 2012, 11:26 PM:name=wiry)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wiry @ Oct 24 2012, 11:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1996387"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Obviously he's not singeling out RFK as the sole reasons there were no tech explosions.. Jesus christ.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Explain to me.
If 30 seconds is the ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM decrease that can be expected, involving players of the highest skill bracket facing off against complete noobs who failed to plugin their screen correctly, then what can 90% of average players expect? 5 seconds, maybe 10?
It is the same point, over and over again. Is it going to make a big 1 minute+ difference?
Yes? That is too powerful and will cause snowballing.
No? Then it is pointless to implement so why take the risk?
Save to say there are endemic problems behind tech explosions but RFK just happens to be a quick and easy partial fix that doesn't destroy the world. The only reason it gets such bad press as a snowballing mechanic is because of the face-value nature of the "+1" alert. Purchasing weapons/equipment/roles achieves snowballing far more proficiently than +1 RFK could ever hope for.
You react the same either way. I don't think it makes that huge a difference. What would make a huge difference is some pro player in a pug getting fade super early on and then completely wrecking house. Flayra thought sentries ruined pug games well that would completely destroy them.
I'm not, however, advocating the current p.res system. I think the current system is very backwards, giving more resources to the players that take fewer risks. I think instead p.res should be given to entire teams for accomplishing tasks around the map. Killing structures for example. Rewarding teamwork rather than just rewarding the guys with too much time on their hands or people that are AFK.
The same is true the other way round. It's not that nice to suddenly be faced with a team of exos, especially when there wasn't even some strategic decision from a commander to actually save up for them.
Its my opinion that the perceived problem lies in the difficulty ramp up. Ideally in a multiplayer game there should be no "difficulty curve". I mean things shouldn't get easier for one team and harder for the other right (within reason)? However the difference between a vanilla skulk and a skulk with carapace and leap, while not being particularly substantial res wise, or in terms of the entire tech tree, is <b>massive </b>in terms of how difficult it is to fight one.
Compare it to other multiplayer games, and I think you will find that it is a rather strange experience.