Hydra Tweaking and structure heal question

radforChrist

<div class="IPBDescription">Request a slight buff to assist aliens</div>We've nerfed Hydras pretty well for them to actually surprise me when I get a kill with them. They're simply a deterrent or a delay until backup arrives.

Exactly what I'd expect them to be. but they're terribly weak at it. And a semi decent marine cleans them out in three clips or less.

could we up the individual gorge use to five? Keep all the rest the same, but give gorges a couple more each to play? I think it would make them a little more formidable, but still weak.

Also, is there an innate healing for structures, mainly hives? I know in NS1 all alien structures healed slowly, but I don't think cysts or hives do in NS2. Do any do this? Could they? Please?

Thanks!

HeatSurge

Autoregen would be nice, as long as it is balanced and slow.

Upping the hydra limit to 5 isn't a good idea imo; they're pretty nice as they are right now imo, in cost, function, and limit per gorge.

AurOn2

<!--quoteo(post=1993102:date=Oct 18 2012, 03:46 PM:name=HeatSurge)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (HeatSurge @ Oct 18 2012, 03:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1993102"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Autoregen would be nice, as long as it is balanced and slow.

Upping the hydra limit to 5 isn't a good idea imo; they're pretty nice as they are right now imo, in cost, function, and limit per gorge.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How isn't it a good idea? It would make gorging much more rewarding and useful. Why is it people are determined to take the hydra away from the gorge? Hard limits should be the exception, not the rule.

ChickenOfWar

I think the hydra cap should be increased, since a player has to give up all combat viability (go gorge) to lay down and then support (heal) hydras.

ChickenOfWar

I think the hydra cap should be increased, since a player has to give up all combat viability (go gorge) to lay down and then support (heal) hydras.

Twiggeh

Imho i'd rather have few strong hydras than many weaker.

Partly because they're easier to keep alive, and partly because it isnt as resource-consuming for the server.

_Necro_

Remember. They need to be weak enough to not be a danger when not supported by the gorge. Strong enough to be worth the resources they cost. But not this strong, that 2 marines can't get them down, when a gorge is healing them.

As they were free for the gorge. The best tactic was to run past them and kill the gorge. Now that they cost resources, I think they could be buffed again, so you can't just run past them. Now you would have to kill them and than get the gorge. A single gorge with hydras should be capable of holding of 1 marine by healing his hydras faster than the one marine can damage them. But 2 marines should have no problem in getting them down one after another.

In addition it would be nice if the gorge get his resources back when eating his hydras.

HeatSurge

I mean, it might be OK, I haven't tried it, but too much hydra spam might mean you are met with hydras everywhere you go.

Emptying clips into hydras and then going back to resupply isn't exactly the most fun to play the game, and it will promote even more gorging around the map (mostly on pubs I suppose)...

But we can try it I guess.

Starkwind

If they just did a little more damage or were just a tad more sturdy they might be a little more viable.

peregrinus

I think they should fire more rapidly doing the same or slightly more damage than they currently do. They don't stand much chance hitting jet packers at their slow rate of fire.

That would seem more in tune with their three headed design, rather than one dart every two seconds(?), it could be three darts over two seconds, each dart doing 40% of the current dart damage. Then there could be a one or two second 'reload' pause before the next burst.

And there should be +2 or +3 hydras per hive. That let's the gorge keep up a little with expanding map control, or focus hydras in one area to defend against a strong marine push.

middleman

OC Towers / Hydras are needed to hold strategic map points. Such as route to hive, route to key resource towers. If a gorge decides to hold the line, he should be able to hold it long enough to either kill the force attacking him, or have backup assist him before its too late.

However, you have 1 gorge in a hallway, 3 marines are rushing you, your 3 pathetic oc towers you wasted money on get mowed down, and you eat a grenade for breakfast.

1) If the gorge had healing structure, that would help, but he cant drop them, and com has to decide whether he can spend the money for it.

2) Towers are too weak, or are limited in number, so marines can jump over the towers, and run after you. If you had another wall of oc towers to back you up, that would help.

3) Due to limit of 3 towers, you cant protect alien evolution chambers because you're too busy ahead of it.

peregrinus

And if you really wanna protect a structure you need to place hydras all around it, otherwise a rine can hide behind the structure while he kills it.

Splatdeath

How about Gorges being allowed 3 Hydras per hive up?

peregrinus

They had that before but it made no difference because they didnt change how hydras worked.

So you had 9 hydras which mostly missed, doing tiny damage, all getting blown up by a grenade and utterly useless against upgraded marines.

Benson

<!--quoteo(post=1993256:date=Oct 18 2012, 08:27 AM:name=Splatdeath)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Splatdeath @ Oct 18 2012, 08:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1993256"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How about Gorges being allowed 3 Hydras per hive up?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


They used to have no limits on hydras - became a spam problem

They used to increase number of hydras per hive - still a spam probelm

UWE is very against any kind of Player v AI encounters, both from a spam and gameplay perspective; they prefer to keep things PvP. Personally, I find strong static defenses enjoyable (so long as spam isn't a problem), so I'm all for buffing Hydras and increasing the cap to 5, after all, thats WHY gls and bilebomb are in the game, to kill structures.

Hell, look at sentry guns. They have been so useless for so long, and just recently they have decided to cap them at 1 sentry battery per room and make them a bit more powerful, even though bilebomb would be able to wipe out an entire base full of sentries (even stronger ones) in a matter of seconds


Point is - Anything that brings more AI into the game is going to remain having an almost negligable effect on a round, and be easily overcome, even without the specialized equipment availble.

Dysto

<!--quoteo(post=1993285:date=Oct 18 2012, 12:37 PM:name=Benson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Benson @ Oct 18 2012, 12:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1993285"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->UWE is very against any kind of Player v AI encounters, both from a spam and gameplay perspective; they prefer to keep things PvP.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

See, you say that, and UWE says that... but Arcs? Not direct PvE...but a complete game changer, especially right now.

ChickenOfWar

In starcraft 2 if you just spam static defenses in your base there is no way your enemy will not win. He will eventually tech into something that can kill those defenses easily, despite your spam. Static defenses have specific uses and need to be supported by units to be useful at all. But if they are supported, they can hold back an early rush or make it not worth it to try to bust that wall down. Basically bile bomb/GLs are the tech that can destroy static defenses with ease. There should be a point where it simply isn't worth it to place more static defense. If charlie is afraid of turret spamming causing stalemates, make the endgame tech better to the point where it isnt worth it to spam them!

d0ped0g

Hydra's have very little cost benefit, and there are few locations and scenarios where they are actually effective. If the limit was upped to 5, or growed every hive, even with hydra spam, I think the wasted pres more than compensates the balance, as these hydras can get shot down pretty easily by a coordinated marine side working as a team. If they can't work as a team to capitalize on the hydra spam by countering it effectively, then it's their fault.

In ns1 you could spam ocs as much as you please, and in my opinion they were far better than hydras. There wasn't a spam problem because it was just seen as wasted res by the marine team. The marines would just counter by ignoring the ocs, or shooting them down quickly as a team. It's exactly the same for ns2 is it not? Hydra spam isn't exactly beneficial to the alien team. It's just resources wasted on a fragile, underpowered, static structure, that can't even be healed fast enough to save even if you're there as gorge babysitting it (and there's very few locations where you can heal a hydra getting shot without putting yourself in harms way and likely dying in the process - you pretty much have to have skulks with you to draw away the fire from you).

So yeah, I'm all for any buffs on hydras, beit on the amount you can drop, or the hp and damage hydras do, or increase gorge heal speed (or energy recovery).

IronHorse

I say :
<ul><li>increase their hp/armor by 30% to scale better lategame </li><li>increase their cost by 1 or 2 pres, so they are not OP or too many early game (2 per gorge at start of game if 2 pres more.</li><li>increase the hard cap to 5 so that the gorge has more to do mid to late game and a proper res sink for the class.</li></ul>

Techercizer

I wish they would go back to hitscan. Anybody with a GL, a medpacking Com, or the time to just edge around a corner and shoot them out one by one could take them out anyway, and they weren't completely nullified by a slight left-to-right movement.

Xarius

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I say :

increase their hp/armor by 30% to scale better lategame
increase their cost by 1 or 2 pres, so they are not OP or too many early game (2 per gorge at start of game if 2 pres more.
increase the hard cap to 5 so that the gorge has more to do mid to late game and a proper res sink for the class.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Yes please

Alternatively, mature hydras should receive a considerable HP/armour boost at least. (That way new built ones remain fragile and easier to deal with, early on in the game)
That way the base p.res cost can stay the same, but the cap should still go up.