FlaterectomyNetherlandistanJoin Date: 2005-02-03Member: 39643Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
I wasn't going to, but then I watched some games on Caged, streamed at the AusNS2 Darft Tournament, and I felt motivated to publish a new build today.
CHANGELOG [15th of june 2014]
o Closed off all the troll vents
o Added quick and dirty crate-cover in Bypass
o Fixed occlusion geometry issue in Auxiliary Generator
o Detailed the northwest corner and northeast junction of Central Processing
o Detailed the vent between Central Processing and Ventilation Access
o RIP Sabaton Stole
FlaterectomyNetherlandistanJoin Date: 2005-02-03Member: 39643Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
Quick fix published!
CHANGELOG [16th of june 2014]
o Fixed flickering prop in Central Processing
o Raised commander camera in Marine Start a little
o Fixed cysting issue in Ventilation Access due to ceiling pipe being visible in commander view
FlaterectomyNetherlandistanJoin Date: 2005-02-03Member: 39643Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
edited June 2014
Big experimental change in the new build. Those who were at the SCC map test last Sunday will have seen a broken sneak peek.
CHANGELOG [25th of june 2014]
o Moved Generator tech point to Auxiliary Generator
o Renamed Upper Sewer and Lower Sewer to Upper Wasteflow and Lower Wasteflow (there were too many sewers!)
o Renamed Ventilation Access to Life Support (there were too many ventilations!)
o Renamed Break Room to Shortcut (who'd have their break there anyway?)
o RIP Belial's Bottom
I moved the generator TP to Aux Gen, to see how that affects the spawn disadvantage of aliens when they start the game there. Right now it's simply a hive plopped into the middle of Aux Gen, with little cover, but hopefully it's enough to test this thoroughly. I'm not yet certain how I will address this switch if it proves to be successful; I may try switching the actual rooms around so you'll still spawn in the old familiar Generator, it'll just connect to the rest differently. We'll see.
Please play this build, I really do need feedback on this change (based on having played it, not gut feelings and wild theories ).
Might I make a small suggestion? Room name should be condensed in some areas, Sanitation, Purification, Shipping Access. helps keep the minimap cleaner and is nice for us caster types :P just suggestions.
Might I make a small suggestion? Room name should be condensed in some areas, Sanitation, Purification, Shipping Access. helps keep the minimap cleaner and is nice for us caster types :P just suggestions.
A good point, though Sanitation Control, new as it might be, is kind of dear to my heart. The others I'll think about.
Auxiliary Generator Station Control
Sanitation Control Station Hallway
That One Generator Station Hallway
Upper Shipping System Control Access
Shipping Control Station Tunnels
Ventilation Control Access System
Purification Access Control Station
Voice-Chat: "Marines incoming from Upper Shipping System Control... north to Ventilation Control Access System... south."
Maybe I missed it (did not read the whole thread), but is there a reason central isn't a double node room anymore? Have double nodes been deemed unbalanced? Also keep purification station with that name. It rolls off the tongue
FlaterectomyNetherlandistanJoin Date: 2005-02-03Member: 39643Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
edited July 2014
@Darakian Central is a pretty powerful location, when it had two RTs it was even more so. I didn't want it to be too much of a who-has-central-wins kinda thing.
Also, just so people who may play the map in the European Night Cup on Saturday will know, I will publish a new build of Caged on Friday with the following changes:
o Arc locations on Aux Gen hiveroom in Stability and Upper Shipping will be dealt with
o Old ramp in upper shipping down to Bypass/Shipping Tunnels junction reinstated (for now)
o Shipping Tunnels will be partially detailed (this is what happens when you catch me having to fix map issues while detailing )
o Cover for Aux Gen hive from That One Hallway... no idea how I'm gonna do with this one yet
o Altered Purification to be slightly more like before
I may be forgetting a thing or two, we'll see.
EDIT: Just been informed that the European Night Cup has been cancelled with another event being planned in its place at a later date, so I will stop sweating over these changes and work at a more comfortable pace. probably for Sunday's SCC test.
EDIT 2: So the NA/AUS draft tournament is this weekend, meaning I will be publishing the build tomorrow anyway. Meep!
FlaterectomyNetherlandistanJoin Date: 2005-02-03Member: 39643Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
As promised, new build is published.
CHANGELOG [11th of july 2014]
o Fixed OP arc locations in Stability and Upper Shipping that could hit the Aux Gen hiveroom
o Reinstated the previous ramp in Upper Shipping down to the Bypass/Shipping Tunnels junction
o Partially detailed Shipping Tunnels (some greybox dev textures remain)
o Addec cover in That One Hallway to break LOS on the Aux Gen hive
o Altered Purification to be slightly more like before and improved its occlusion geometry
o Fixed occlusion geometry issue in the Sewer/Purification vents above the doorways
o Reduced number of grating girders in Sewer hive from three to two
@Flaterectomy
I know double nodes makes it more powerful. I thought that was the idea
Either way I like the way it's going and I fully understand that ns2 is not ns1. Balance is just different. Great work
@Flaterectomy
I know double nodes makes it more powerful. I thought that was the idea
Either way I like the way it's going and I fully understand that ns2 is not ns1. Balance is just different. Great work
The idea is that it's already powerful, being a central location with access to every part of the map.
Explanation:
A lot of alleys circling the room. So you can always go around and have control of the surrounding and set up an attack. But it's also a line of defense for Central room. 2 access on the room with on that has some kind of window which are use to enter in. The price is you can't go stealth on the north exit.
Scenario A:
Aliens get it first. They will be able to reduce greatly the distances with a tunnel. Then they can mark any marine that comes around by using the circling alleys. Frankly it's too easy. And once the Lerks are up... it's a claim on all the map faster than marine would do with the same control on Central. Marine start to defend on their borders soon.
if marines try to attack they will probably deal with a gorge Crag and maybe a Shade. The time to get rid of it for one marine is to big to ensure a clear claim of the room. So a good portion of the team (3) has to push in. It needs time to set up the attack without being noticed, and proceed. No chance on stealth mode if alien are good players. And the marines leave the rest of map unprotected.
Scenario B:
Marines get it first. They will ruin any alien effort to get RTs because marines will be able to dispatch any time to get rid of any harvester growing (or teleported).
If aliens try to attack they will probably deal with 2 marines guarding it and making sure they keep great distances between them and the exits. Eventually a TF set up would be here. Alien can't wait for lerk or fade to claim it nor Bile bomb. Unless they're really good and close to high level skill, this situation will not be unlocked like that.
This is by definition not accessible for the new comers.
I believe Central needs
-a vent for alien
-less ceiling stuff that makes it too easy for good skulks (Circling alleys).
-And a third exit (like hydroanalysis)
I know it a difficult job, and obviously a lot of time was invested in it, but I'm sure you'll find something to do.
@UncleCrunch Could you elaborate on the vent you feel needs adding?
Images are better than words.
Please make sure you put your images behind spoiler tags, UncleCrunch. -Decoy
Green rectangle is the spot.
Blue arrow. Marines get in Central from here at start. A sure parasite shot for who knows.
Actually the room is opened on North and South (yellow arrows) while the connection to the other areas are on the sides. Whoever has the green area, have control of the surroundings (orange). It's close to be the same room but not completely.
The vent view is blocked (purple arrow). This was probably done because of Bile bomb, but now it's a problem for any skulk that want to synchronize an attack. In fact i feel it's better to enter from the South entrance as you have more chance to dodge and hide in the wall and ceiling corners. BTW ... One mine on the vent entrance and bye bye skulky.
->>
Why not opening the room on East and West directly ?
-and maybe another cardinal point of your choice (North / South).
-and finally create a vent connecting the last face to the exterior.
...like Hydroanalysis
It doesn't mean you have to "redo" everything. Wandering in the editor i saw that you can reuse a lot of things.
Despite the LOS issue to solve; it would enable the ability to attack it directly (A more "opened" area vs Nest config). And maybe ppl would start to try to conquer other areas (or deny) a little more.
Right now this area is the key to win but also part of the problem.
Plus i see it's a 4 TP map. It makes everything behaving exponentially (RT, map control). Try add one. This would change the marine start 'routine'. A remake doesn't mean you have to do exactly the same thing "refurbished" with 2012 graphics. No need to tell you the game is quite different on many aspects. You were forced to reshape some parts already.
Comments
CHANGELOG [15th of june 2014]
o Closed off all the troll vents
o Added quick and dirty crate-cover in Bypass
o Fixed occlusion geometry issue in Auxiliary Generator
o Detailed the northwest corner and northeast junction of Central Processing
o Detailed the vent between Central Processing and Ventilation Access
o RIP Sabaton Stole
CHANGELOG [16th of june 2014]
o Fixed flickering prop in Central Processing
o Raised commander camera in Marine Start a little
o Fixed cysting issue in Ventilation Access due to ceiling pipe being visible in commander view
CHANGELOG [25th of june 2014]
o Moved Generator tech point to Auxiliary Generator
o Renamed Upper Sewer and Lower Sewer to Upper Wasteflow and Lower Wasteflow (there were too many sewers!)
o Renamed Ventilation Access to Life Support (there were too many ventilations!)
o Renamed Break Room to Shortcut (who'd have their break there anyway?)
o RIP Belial's Bottom
I moved the generator TP to Aux Gen, to see how that affects the spawn disadvantage of aliens when they start the game there. Right now it's simply a hive plopped into the middle of Aux Gen, with little cover, but hopefully it's enough to test this thoroughly. I'm not yet certain how I will address this switch if it proves to be successful; I may try switching the actual rooms around so you'll still spawn in the old familiar Generator, it'll just connect to the rest differently. We'll see.
Please play this build, I really do need feedback on this change (based on having played it, not gut feelings and wild theories
Layout:
They never seem to have a problem with that when I've played.
Sanitation Control = Sanitation
That One Hallway = One Hallway
Upper Shipping Access = Access
Shipping Tunnels = Tunnels
Ventilation System = Ventilation
Purification Station = Purification
CHANGELOG [29th of june 2014]
o Re-greyboxed Purification
o Altered vents from Sewer to Purification
Auxiliary Generator Station Control
Sanitation Control Station Hallway
That One Generator Station Hallway
Upper Shipping System Control Access
Shipping Control Station Tunnels
Ventilation Control Access System
Purification Access Control Station
Voice-Chat: "Marines incoming from Upper Shipping System Control... north to Ventilation Control Access System... south."
Also, just so people who may play the map in the European Night Cup on Saturday will know, I will publish a new build of Caged on Friday with the following changes:
o Arc locations on Aux Gen hiveroom in Stability and Upper Shipping will be dealt with
o Old ramp in upper shipping down to Bypass/Shipping Tunnels junction reinstated (for now)
o Shipping Tunnels will be partially detailed (this is what happens when you catch me having to fix map issues while detailing
o Cover for Aux Gen hive from That One Hallway... no idea how I'm gonna do with this one yet
o Altered Purification to be slightly more like before
I may be forgetting a thing or two, we'll see.
EDIT: Just been informed that the European Night Cup has been cancelled with another event being planned in its place at a later date, so I will stop sweating over these changes and work at a more comfortable pace. probably for Sunday's SCC test.
EDIT 2: So the NA/AUS draft tournament is this weekend, meaning I will be publishing the build tomorrow anyway. Meep!
CHANGELOG [11th of july 2014]
o Fixed OP arc locations in Stability and Upper Shipping that could hit the Aux Gen hiveroom
o Reinstated the previous ramp in Upper Shipping down to the Bypass/Shipping Tunnels junction
o Partially detailed Shipping Tunnels (some greybox dev textures remain)
o Addec cover in That One Hallway to break LOS on the Aux Gen hive
o Altered Purification to be slightly more like before and improved its occlusion geometry
o Fixed occlusion geometry issue in the Sewer/Purification vents above the doorways
o Reduced number of grating girders in Sewer hive from three to two
I know double nodes makes it more powerful. I thought that was the idea
Either way I like the way it's going and I fully understand that ns2 is not ns1. Balance is just different. Great work
The idea is that it's already powerful, being a central location with access to every part of the map.
Explanation:
A lot of alleys circling the room. So you can always go around and have control of the surrounding and set up an attack. But it's also a line of defense for Central room. 2 access on the room with on that has some kind of window which are use to enter in. The price is you can't go stealth on the north exit.
Scenario A:
Aliens get it first. They will be able to reduce greatly the distances with a tunnel. Then they can mark any marine that comes around by using the circling alleys. Frankly it's too easy. And once the Lerks are up... it's a claim on all the map faster than marine would do with the same control on Central. Marine start to defend on their borders soon.
if marines try to attack they will probably deal with a gorge Crag and maybe a Shade. The time to get rid of it for one marine is to big to ensure a clear claim of the room. So a good portion of the team (3) has to push in. It needs time to set up the attack without being noticed, and proceed. No chance on stealth mode if alien are good players. And the marines leave the rest of map unprotected.
Scenario B:
Marines get it first. They will ruin any alien effort to get RTs because marines will be able to dispatch any time to get rid of any harvester growing (or teleported).
If aliens try to attack they will probably deal with 2 marines guarding it and making sure they keep great distances between them and the exits. Eventually a TF set up would be here. Alien can't wait for lerk or fade to claim it nor Bile bomb. Unless they're really good and close to high level skill, this situation will not be unlocked like that.
This is by definition not accessible for the new comers.
I believe Central needs
-a vent for alien
-less ceiling stuff that makes it too easy for good skulks (Circling alleys).
-And a third exit (like hydroanalysis)
I know it a difficult job, and obviously a lot of time was invested in it, but I'm sure you'll find something to do.
Images are better than words.
Green rectangle is the spot.
Blue arrow. Marines get in Central from here at start. A sure parasite shot for who knows.
Actually the room is opened on North and South (yellow arrows) while the connection to the other areas are on the sides. Whoever has the green area, have control of the surroundings (orange). It's close to be the same room but not completely.
The vent view is blocked (purple arrow). This was probably done because of Bile bomb, but now it's a problem for any skulk that want to synchronize an attack. In fact i feel it's better to enter from the South entrance as you have more chance to dodge and hide in the wall and ceiling corners. BTW ... One mine on the vent entrance and bye bye skulky.
->>
Why not opening the room on East and West directly ?
-and maybe another cardinal point of your choice (North / South).
-and finally create a vent connecting the last face to the exterior.
...like Hydroanalysis
It doesn't mean you have to "redo" everything. Wandering in the editor i saw that you can reuse a lot of things.
Despite the LOS issue to solve; it would enable the ability to attack it directly (A more "opened" area vs Nest config). And maybe ppl would start to try to conquer other areas (or deny) a little more.
Right now this area is the key to win but also part of the problem.
Plus i see it's a 4 TP map. It makes everything behaving exponentially (RT, map control). Try add one. This would change the marine start 'routine'. A remake doesn't mean you have to do exactly the same thing "refurbished" with 2012 graphics. No need to tell you the game is quite different on many aspects. You were forced to reshape some parts already.