<!--quoteo(post=1992180:date=Oct 16 2012, 10:34 AM:name=Hunter.S.T.)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hunter.S.T. @ Oct 16 2012, 10:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1992180"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My thoughts on feedback in general. <!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--> A camel, is a horse designed by committee. <!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't get this metaphor. A camel is a marvel of evolution, perfectly adapted to it's environment.
<!--quoteo(post=1992338:date=Oct 16 2012, 08:03 AM:name=Wilson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wilson @ Oct 16 2012, 08:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1992338"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't get this metaphor. A camel is a marvel of evolution, perfectly adapted to it's environment.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You also wouldn't kiss one and not stop staring.
<!--quoteo(post=1992287:date=Oct 16 2012, 09:40 AM:name=Typhon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Typhon @ Oct 16 2012, 09:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1992287"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The only person suggesting that is you. Nice strawman.
All we're asking is that a freshly spawned marine be equivalent to a freshly spawned skulk assuming the two teams are close in terms of map control and research investment. That's all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
At this rate I would settle for a freshly spawned late game skulk to be 1/3 as combat effective as a 3/3 marine. This would be a huge step up.
After playing another 8 hours in b223, I can say that with some practice the early-skulk bite aiming isn't an issue. It's the 'rine mobility. That ###### is insane. It isn't anything realistic -- go find one of your military buddies, tell them to slap on a gilly suit with combat boots and jump around 50 times in a 10-ft circle while carrying a 15-20lb machine gun, flashlight, pistol, mines, and welder.
Turning up the FOV helps ALOT as a skulk -- at least the 'rines are in view for another half second, making it slightly easier to reaquire them.
At this point, 50 hours in as aliens, I'm starting to notice more and more how the 'rines have so many 'toys' to make it more enjoyable for them. Though even a linear 1-hive Lerk is more fun than a Jetpack'ed shottie marine (IMO).
<!--quoteo(post=1992501:date=Oct 17 2012, 07:48 AM:name=flybot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (flybot @ Oct 17 2012, 07:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1992501"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->After playing another 8 hours in b223, I can say that with some practice the early-skulk bite aiming isn't an issue. It's the 'rine mobility. That ###### is insane. It isn't anything realistic -- go find one of your military buddies, tell them to slap on a gilly suit with combat boots and jump around 50 times in a 10-ft circle while carrying a 15-20lb machine gun, flashlight, pistol, mines, and welder.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> stop referring to real life things in a game with aliens that's silly
Some people really need to calm down. Great post from Hugh btw. I think he has said everything to the balance topic now. The devs are looking into marine-VS-skulk battles and hopefully they will be more fun and fair in the next build.
Some additional changes I would like (but most likely are impossible pre 1.0) are:<ul><li>Decrease the health of the arms lab and the proto lab to make upgrade-sniping valid for aliens too.</li><li>Remove marine sprinting OR increase the build time + price of the phase gate together with decreasing its health.</li><li>An increase in research time of phase tech would be good anyway.</li><li>To compensate, turrets should be made a viable base defense again BUT easily counter-able by a single skulk when no marine is near. (Hard-Cap of 3 bound to the huge model of the robotic factory to create blind spots is the way to go.)</li><li>Make a hard-cap for ARCs bound to the number of CCs. This will finally get rid of ARC-trains AND make this unit important enough to be covered by marines and automatic evolve gameplay around it.</li><li>The skulk-bite-change is good and increases the skill-ceiling. Now fix the bite-pushback-bug and make the skulk smaller and faster to increase the skill bottom too.</li><li>Allow the gorge to temporary overheal skulks to increase the teamplay and give the gorge another purpose. (Skulks are suicidal in most cases. The healer has nobody to heal when most skulks die in the first encounter.)</li><li>Give a nydus-canal-building to the gorge to introduce a strategical fast-travel to aliens and increasing the engineer-role of the gorge. (Should be needed to research by the kham.)</li><li>Maybe even allow him to revive dead aliens with 5 heal sprays (as long as they are not respawned and) if he can reach the corps. This ability would take some time in which he is vulnerable to the marines. But it would be a cool asymmetric counterpart to marines weapon recycling. And would take out some of the frustration you encounter when dieing as lerk/fade/onos just a moment before you got around that save corner with the gorge.</li><li>Make skulk footstep sounds more quiet so it's actually a little challenge to hear them.</li><li>Give the lerk spores with 1 hive again, so he is more of a supporter. Therefore make the spores more transparent and less damaging again. Make bite to the 2nd hive ability instead. To compensate increase the initial bite-damage and allow the poison to kill the marine. It should be rewarded to pay to research something AND get in high danger to use it.</li></ul> Just a few ideas that I think could be great fun in the game.
<!--quoteo(post=1992338:date=Oct 16 2012, 08:03 AM:name=Wilson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wilson @ Oct 16 2012, 08:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1992338"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't get this metaphor. A camel is a marvel of evolution, perfectly adapted to it's environment.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, if you look carefully, u will see that i expain the metaphor right after using it :)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->allow him to revive dead aliens with 5 heal sprays (as long as they are not respawned and) if he can reach the corps. This ability would take some time in which he is vulnerable to the marines. But it would be a cool asymmetric counterpart to marines weapon recycling.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Quite like this. Losing a higher lifeform feels like a massive blow right now, yet losing a GL is just "meh whatever" because you know you can probably pick up another decent weapon the second you jump through the phase gate.
Comments
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->
A camel, is a horse designed by committee. <!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't get this metaphor. A camel is a marvel of evolution, perfectly adapted to it's environment.
You also wouldn't kiss one and not stop staring.
All we're asking is that a freshly spawned marine be equivalent to a freshly spawned skulk assuming the two teams are close in terms of map control and research investment. That's all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
At this rate I would settle for a freshly spawned late game skulk to be 1/3 as combat effective as a 3/3 marine. This would be a huge step up.
Turning up the FOV helps ALOT as a skulk -- at least the 'rines are in view for another half second, making it slightly easier to reaquire them.
At this point, 50 hours in as aliens, I'm starting to notice more and more how the 'rines have so many 'toys' to make it more enjoyable for them. Though even a linear 1-hive Lerk is more fun than a Jetpack'ed shottie marine (IMO).
stop referring to real life things in a game with aliens that's silly
I think he has said everything to the balance topic now. The devs are looking into marine-VS-skulk battles and hopefully they will be more fun and fair in the next build.
Some additional changes I would like (but most likely are impossible pre 1.0) are:<ul><li>Decrease the health of the arms lab and the proto lab to make upgrade-sniping valid for aliens too.</li><li>Remove marine sprinting OR increase the build time + price of the phase gate together with decreasing its health.</li><li>An increase in research time of phase tech would be good anyway.</li><li>To compensate, turrets should be made a viable base defense again BUT easily counter-able by a single skulk when no marine is near. (Hard-Cap of 3 bound to the huge model of the robotic factory to create blind spots is the way to go.)</li><li>Make a hard-cap for ARCs bound to the number of CCs. This will finally get rid of ARC-trains AND make this unit important enough to be covered by marines and automatic evolve gameplay around it.</li><li>The skulk-bite-change is good and increases the skill-ceiling. Now fix the bite-pushback-bug and make the skulk smaller and faster to increase the skill bottom too.</li><li>Allow the gorge to temporary overheal skulks to increase the teamplay and give the gorge another purpose. (Skulks are suicidal in most cases. The healer has nobody to heal when most skulks die in the first encounter.)</li><li>Give a nydus-canal-building to the gorge to introduce a strategical fast-travel to aliens and increasing the engineer-role of the gorge. (Should be needed to research by the kham.)</li><li>Maybe even allow him to revive dead aliens with 5 heal sprays (as long as they are not respawned and) if he can reach the corps. This ability would take some time in which he is vulnerable to the marines. But it would be a cool asymmetric counterpart to marines weapon recycling. And would take out some of the frustration you encounter when dieing as lerk/fade/onos just a moment before you got around that save corner with the gorge.</li><li>Make skulk footstep sounds more quiet so it's actually a little challenge to hear them.</li><li>Give the lerk spores with 1 hive again, so he is more of a supporter. Therefore make the spores more transparent and less damaging again. Make bite to the 2nd hive ability instead. To compensate increase the initial bite-damage and allow the poison to kill the marine. It should be rewarded to pay to research something AND get in high danger to use it.</li></ul>
Just a few ideas that I think could be great fun in the game.
Well, if you look carefully, u will see that i expain the metaphor right after using it :)
Quite like this. Losing a higher lifeform feels like a massive blow right now, yet losing a GL is just "meh whatever" because you know you can probably pick up another decent weapon the second you jump through the phase gate.