C map blur
elodea
Editlodea Join Date: 2009-06-20 Member: 67877Members, Reinforced - Shadow
Editlodea Join Date: 2009-06-20 Member: 67877Members, Reinforced - Shadow
Could we get this removed once and for all or atleast an option to disable it?
I appreciate that UWE listened to community feedback and toned the blur down alot, but now its so subtle that its taking me longer to consciously realise its been deliberately blurred than it is for my brain to realise something's out of focus.
The result is my eyes reflexively trying to 'refocus' every time i bring up the minimap, creating so much nausea.
I appreciate that UWE listened to community feedback and toned the blur down alot, but now its so subtle that its taking me longer to consciously realise its been deliberately blurred than it is for my brain to realise something's out of focus.
The result is my eyes reflexively trying to 'refocus' every time i bring up the minimap, creating so much nausea.
Comments
and a minimap like the marines would be welcome...
This kind of thinking is the whole problem. If the minimap is so powerful that you want to have it open a lot, you cannot fix this problem by adding arbitrary downsides to it. People will still have the map open a lot, but now they will also get angry and frustrated by the all the stupid stuff added to it to make it "worse". The exact same problem can be seen with UWE trying to "fix" the alien vision by adding downsides.
This is like fixing marines being too strong in fights by making the crosshair randomly shake and also add random acceleration to mouse movement, changing every second. It doesn't actually fix the problem and the only thing you achieve is frustrating and pissing off the players.
aliens don't have a minimap on screen, some maps are so complex that i can't find an exit (and get shot) without using the map.
i'm mostly forced to use the map, it's a disadvantage for the alien team.
what concerns the map, adding blur to it is even more confusing...
If the blur wasn't there, why not just cello-tape the c-key to be pressed and we be done with it.
There should be a tactical reason for people to bring up that map, i.e there should be "some" drawback, so people need to choose carefully when to use it.
Its one of the more annoying things about watching streams and youtube videos of this game, 50% of the vids is looking at that map and nothing else....
And I still have problems when minimaps show ways to go that don't exist (elevator in tram for example - there is no wall visible on the minimap).
This is why people don't need to stare at it soo often anymore, you can read and do a mental snapshot of the map much faster when it's the only thing in focus.
And you can still use it while running around, just not abuse it as a radar when you're about to engage skulks.
Thus the blur us fine, keep it.
If the blur wasn't there, why not just cello-tape the c-key to be pressed and we be done with it.
There should be a tactical reason for people to bring up that map, i.e there should be "some" drawback, so people need to choose carefully when to use it.
Its one of the more annoying things about watching streams and youtube videos of this game, 50% of the vids is looking at that map and nothing else....<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why not?
What does it matter if someone wants to run around w/ the map open most of the time? I mean is it really giving them an advantage? In fact I would venture to say that having it open more often than not is a little bit of a disadvantage because with it open you really can't see enemies that are in front of you or even fight back w/ it open.
I guess I don't see why people have such a big complaint about others using the map, that's what it's there for no?
I use it mainly because I have such a hard time remembering where locations are between each map.
If the blur wasn't there, why not just cello-tape the c-key to be pressed and we be done with it.
There should be a tactical reason for people to bring up that map, i.e there should be "some" drawback, so people need to choose carefully when to use it.
Its one of the more annoying things about watching streams and youtube videos of this game, 50% of the vids is looking at that map and nothing else....<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The drawback being it covers like 50% of your screen, most of the area being blocked being the center of your screen. If that isn't enough of a 'combat' drawback i don't know what is. Have you tried fighting skulks with your map cello-taped down?
Want to know why its annoying to watch on a stream? Exactly because you, as a viewer have no fore-warning of when the screen will randomly go out of focus. Remove the blur and it'll be fine.
<!--quoteo(post=1987381:date=Oct 5 2012, 10:57 PM:name=Onii-chan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Onii-chan @ Oct 5 2012, 10:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1987381"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I used to have issues focusing on the map with it being transparent over the background game, the slight blur helps a lot with this.
This is why people don't need to stare at it soo often anymore, you can read and do a mental snapshot of the map much faster when it's the only thing in focus.
And you can still use it while running around, just not abuse it as a radar when you're about to engage skulks.
Thus the blur us fine, keep it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which is why i would be happy with there being an <b>option to disable it</b>. Some people seem to find it clarifying, the vast majority i talk to do not.
<!--sizeo:2--><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>1.1 The current situation</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
The minimap gives all players, both FPS and RTS, instantaneous access to a lot of information. For new players it's primarily a navigational tool. Since it shows a lot of extra information, however, it is primarily a scouting and awareness tool for experienced players.
In the latest patch, b216, UWE darkened the background and added a blur effect to it, meaning that you can't see what's ahead of you while you're looking at the minimap. According to a developer in the changelog thread, the intention of this change was to force players to use the minimap less:
<!--quoteo(post=1960183:date=Aug 10 2012, 03:24 AM:name=MurphyIdiot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MurphyIdiot @ Aug 10 2012, 03:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1960183"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"which sucks because I have it open allll the time." <- Having to have it open all the time is what sucks. We want you to be able to play the game without a map open at all. But when you do want to open the map, we want it to be easy to read.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Currently, the minimap gives you acces to the following information (rough list, not exhaustive):
a) The layout of the map.
b) The position and type of all friendly players and structures.
c) The position and type of any enemy player and structure within LOS from a friendly player.
d) The position and type of any enemy player touching a friendly structure (typically because they are attacking that structure).
e) The position and type of any alien player and structure within range of the observatory.
f) The position and type of any alien player and structure under a scan.
g) An indicator showing you which friendly structures are under attack (currently the icon blinks).
h) The position of any parasited marine.
<!--sizeo:2--><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>1.2 The problem</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Flicking the minimap on and off frequently, and sometimes even just staring at it while waiting for something to happen, is the most effective way to play. Unfortunately, staring at a map isn't very engaging gameplay and having to turn it on and off all the time can be a bit of a chore.
Some of the information you can access on the minimap negatively impacts other gameplay features. For example: Since friendly player LOS isn't accurate with what that player is actually seeing, sometimes you see more on the minimap than the player himself sees. Since you can warn other players who are about to be ambushed, or even see players who are trying to ambush you by looking at the minimap, this disincentivizes alien ambush play.
Because of the wealth of information the individual player can access on the minimap, a lot of the time the field players will know just as much as the commander about what's happening in other parts of the map. This disrupts commander gameplay and can cheapen the commander's role in the game.
Therefore, my assessment is that the minimap is too powerful and I agree with UWE's goal of getting the players to use the minimap less. Experienced players shouldn't be required to stare at a map in order to be the most effective. What I disagree with, is their current method of disincentivizing the unwanted behaviour.
<!--sizeo:2--><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>1.3 The suggested solution</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Instead of making the minimap too cumbersome to use frequently, I believe that it should be made less effective. Part of the reason for that is that I believe that their current efforts at making it too cumbersome to use frequently have failed -- I use the minimap just as frequently, I am just a little bit annoyed every time I do -- and part of the reason is that I think that, ultimately, making it so cumbersome to use that it will actually have an effect, will also hurt its much needed navigational purpose for new players.
The minimap should only give the field players access to the the following information:
a) The layout of the map.
b) The position and type of all friendly players and structures.
c) The position and type of any alien player and structure under a scan.
d) An indicator showing you which friendly structures are under attack (with a more clear indication that the structure is under attack than the current blinking icon) (for clarity; it should not show what is attacking the structure, just that the structure is under attack).
e) The position of any parasited marine.
f) The position of any waypoint (thanks Heroman117).
The commander should still have access to the same information on the minimap as before, however. This will enhance the commander's role as a scouter and insure that he has a greater knowledge of the entirety of a the game than any individual field player. As the field players still have access to vital information, such as which friendly structure is under attack and where the friendly players are, this change shouldn't put too much responsibility on the commanders' shoulders either.
This change will probably anger som players, but I believe that the net effect on gameplay will be positive.
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This is like fixing marines being too strong in fights by making the crosshair randomly shake and also add random acceleration to mouse movement, changing every second. It doesn't actually fix the problem and the only thing you achieve is frustrating and pissing off the players.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1
That could be a case of people disliking something being louder than people who are content though. It also takes a while to adapt to the change. Personally, I've started to like the way it blurs actually.
It was overdone when it was first introduced but I think they've hit a nice balance. Running with it open is now doable, although your obviously going to react slower if something unexpected happens.
<img src="http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/9030/mapmod4.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
yea, because a <b>transparent</b> minimap with a background blur effect is the epitome of clear, readable ui design.
Yea, it's really nice, I like it too! It makes you focus on the map quickly.
I like the idea of the whole minimap in the top left corner though, and I think this is VERY important if NS2 wants to be taken seriously as a competitive game. No other strategy game leaves only part of the map for the player. (Yes, the guys who aren't commanding are still playing a strategy game).
In theory, a good commander can micro and communicate everything perfectly and just in time, so nobody should ever need a map.
In reality, players often have to make their own choices because either:
- the player has better information (due to things seen or heard which the commander didn't)
- the commander is busy doing something else more intensely
- the commander is just not good enough to micro everything :-)
So yes, a full minimap would be awesome.