So why are marines so much more deadly than aliens?

FrontlinerDeltaFrontlinerDelta Join Date: 2010-12-24 Member: 75924Members
And by this I mean, aliens don't have any way to scale like marines.

A free marine (ie just spawned) is much more dangerous and deadly than the skulk. Just as a player it feels like skulks become useless while a marine never is.

I mean what is the point of carapace if one shotgun blast insta-kills anyways?
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Comments

  • SrCumferenceSrCumference Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3740Members
    I have to admit, I do wish that aliens scaled a bit more with additional hives. Sure, they get an additional option for another evolution, but those change more the way you play than simply buffing you. Asymmetry is good, but I for one would be interested in at least a <i>little</i> bit of an inherent upgrade as the game progressed. I dunno, maybe get an extra 5 armor as a hive becomes fully mature or something.

    I think the current system works fine, but I always feel a little shortchanged when I think "That marine just spawned with over twice as much default armor and weapon damage." and I can't do anything but increase my armor just the same as I could 2 hives ago. I also think that new players may experience similar feelings.
  • HeatSurgeHeatSurge Some Guy Join Date: 2012-09-15 Member: 159438Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited October 2012
    Simple; they have ranged weapons, and a good marine will use that simple advantage by always keeping the fight at the maximum distance possible. Shotguns mostly remove even short-range disadvantage (but add long range disadvantage instead).

    Skulks have a speed advantage though, so while an absolutely perfect shotgun shot kills a skulk, it's not easy to land them with celerity/leap/blink/spore clouds, etc. Then again, good players still have no problem getting very high scores, especially with marines, and especially on pub. servers/games :-) .

    But all of this is Natural Selection 101, does it really need a separate thread or an explanation?
  • FrontlinerDeltaFrontlinerDelta Join Date: 2010-12-24 Member: 75924Members
    Exactly. I love asymmetry as well but it should NOT come at the cost of the base alien lifeform becoming "obsolete". I put it in quotes because skulks are still useful but they are very much outclassed, Evolutions or not.

    It would be nice to levels added to the evolutions, ie Carapace 1, Carapace 2, etc...

    Just joined 4 different servers trying to find a game that wasn't marines stomping.

    Couldn't find one. And it doesn't help that everyone seems to know this and stacks marine side. And since this is PuG play, you can't rely on the Onos rush from commander to win. Other than that, I still feel Marines pretty much handsdown outclass the aliens.
  • HeatSurgeHeatSurge Some Guy Join Date: 2012-09-15 Member: 159438Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    I think the bigger problem is that the good players don't enjoy playing alien, for whatever reason. In my observation, especially lately, marine side is being favored by clan/good people.

    Maybe the reason is that it's MUCH easier to be a "hero" and pull a high KDR on the marine side, while aliens are more about team ambushes and team rushes (lots of teamwork) which is more difficult to pull off on pubs.

    The only way to be a hero on aliens is to be a fade and be REALLY good at it. Even then, if there are three competent shotgun users working together, you don't stand a chance.
  • SopsSops Join Date: 2003-07-03 Member: 17894Members, Constellation
    They have nerfed aliens every patch for the last few months, what would you expect?

    The biggest reason aliens can still win games is the power node system.
  • AurOn2AurOn2 COOKIES&#33; FREEDOM, AND BISCUITS&#33; Australia Join Date: 2012-01-13 Member: 140224Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Forum staff
    <!--quoteo(post=1987189:date=Oct 5 2012, 01:30 PM:name=Sops)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sops @ Oct 5 2012, 01:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1987189"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They have nerfed aliens every patch for the last few months, what would you expect?

    The biggest reason aliens can still win games is the power node system.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    More like the only reason.
  • male_fatalitiesmale_fatalities ausns2.org Join Date: 2004-03-06 Member: 27185Members, Constellation
    edited October 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=1987182:date=Oct 5 2012, 01:07 PM:name=HeatSurge)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (HeatSurge @ Oct 5 2012, 01:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1987182"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think the bigger problem is that the good players don't enjoy playing alien, for whatever reason. In my observation, especially lately, marine side is being favored by clan/good people.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    .....

    Man you say some made up ######. How would you know what people like lol...

    Skulk / lerk / fade at a high competitive level is extremely enjoyable.

    The only argument against this is that skulk does not have the skill ceiling compared to ns1.
  • ZeikkoZeikko Join Date: 2007-12-16 Member: 63179Members, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester
    <!--quoteo(post=1987182:date=Oct 5 2012, 05:07 AM:name=HeatSurge)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (HeatSurge @ Oct 5 2012, 05:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1987182"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think the bigger problem is that the good players don't enjoy playing alien, for whatever reason. In my observation, especially lately, marine side is being favored by clan/good people.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I agree. You can also go to ns2stats.org and see that yourself. Pick almost any high level competitive player and you can see that they play mostly marines in the couple of last builds.

    I do that too because i think there's much more to learn and practice as individual marine. You will pretty much never hit a skill ceiling in aiming but with skulk it easy to feel that there's not much how you can improve your play individually as playing alien is mostly about teamwork, timing and communication. When the wallhop was still in i loved playing an alien because there was a mechanic that you could always practice and get better at.

    Also the fact that pretty much only skulk, gorge and onos are used in competitive play currently because lerk and fade have been nerfed to floor doesn't help the fact. The lerk and fade have much higher skill ceiling but practicing them seems kinda worthless if UWE plans to keep them as they are.
  • HeatSurgeHeatSurge Some Guy Join Date: 2012-09-15 Member: 159438Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited October 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=1987228:date=Oct 5 2012, 12:20 AM:name=male_fatalities)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (male_fatalities @ Oct 5 2012, 12:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1987228"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Man you say some made up ######. How would you know what people like lol...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I play the game and I see more recognizable/clan people on the marine side more often than on the alien side.

    I did say "in my observation" so I do say some made up ###### indeed. Don't we all?

    For example, how would you know that "Skulk / lerk / fade at a high competitive level is extremely enjoyable." for others too? Maybe you enjoy it and you're in the minority?
  • XariusXarius Join Date: 2003-12-21 Member: 24630Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited October 2012
    I definitely share that observation and I'd say it's quite problematic. But yea, what others have said, aliens have been hit pretty hard. Currently it feels as if marines have a WAY easier time holding on to map control than aliens, you often see marine teams with 5 - 6 RTS and aliens with 2 - 3. Not to mention the constant ninja marines succeeding in killing upgrade chambers every time.

    Basically what needs to happen imo is:
    - Marine A3 and W3 needs to be moved to 2 CC. This is CRUCIAL, because currently marines can easily stay in the game, even at 1 TP. They have it much much easier than aliens in this regard
    - Skulk needs to better scale into the lategame somehow, hopefully skill based movement will address this somewhat. (As it will help good skulks stay competitive)
    - Gorge needs some love (tougher and/or better dps output), gorge and comm defenses need some love. (Whips need to be buffed again, hydra cap needs to be removed or increased to 5. They're weak enough and marines have plenty of counters)
    - Fade blink needs a revert
    - UWE needs to seriously consider allowing 1 hive to upgrade at least leap and maybe other lifeform abilities but at a mucher higher cost/research time. Or it needs to come up with another way to have even 1 hive aliens able to stay somewhat more competitive. Currently this is a huge problem, putting way too much emphasis on the second hive and making a second hive loss almost always a GG.
    - Lerk needs spores back at T1, spikes should be buffed to become a proper T2 choice.
  • SkieSkie Skulk Progenitor Join Date: 2003-10-18 Member: 21766Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow
    I completely agree on enjoying marines more at the moment. Nothing as fun as point-and-click destroying skulks with the shotgun. As FPS continues to increase, this keeps becoming simpler and simpler.

    Skulk is a bit of a letdown at the moment with the boring movement.
    Lerk has been boring for a long time. You can't engage average+ shotgun marines. Too expensive. Very fun in combat though, because you don't have to be afraid of dying and losing 30 res right away.
    Fade's shadowstep and blink particularly are lackluster in 221.
    Gorge spit's lagginess and invisibility to the gorge himself makes it all pointless to try and frag with.
    Onos is pretty much cheesecake like the shotgun, but I don't like playing it.
  • Squirreli_Squirreli_ Join Date: 2012-04-25 Member: 151046Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Agreed. Currently aliens are not fun to play. I do try to train both sides pretty evenly, but I don't think I'm succeeding...

    Early game skulks are fragile, slow and extremely frustraging to play with. I usually have to force myself to train my skulk skills. Not much enjoyment to be had before some upgrades.

    Fades blink is nerfed to such levels, that you're basically better off not using it, unless fighting against jetpackers in rooms where double-jump doesn't get you high enough. For most purposes, an upgraded skulk does the job better than a fade now, so why not just go for cele-cara-skulks, forget fades and save for onos.

    As to the rest of the lifeforms: what Skie said.
  • VeNeMVeNeM Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 928Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1987294:date=Oct 5 2012, 05:09 AM:name=Xarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xarius @ Oct 5 2012, 05:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1987294"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I definitely share that observation and I'd say it's quite problematic. But yea, what others have said, aliens have been hit pretty hard. Currently it feels as if marines have a WAY easier time holding on to map control than aliens, you often see marine teams with 5 - 6 RTS and aliens with 2 - 3. Not to mention the constant ninja marines succeeding in killing upgrade chambers every time.

    Basically what needs to happen imo is:
    - Marine A3 and W3 needs to be moved to 2 CC. This is CRUCIAL, because currently marines can easily stay in the game, even at 1 TP. They have it much much easier than aliens in this regard
    - Skulk needs to better scale into the lategame somehow, hopefully skill based movement will address this somewhat. (As it will help good skulks stay competitive)
    - Gorge needs some love (tougher and/or better dps output), gorge and comm defenses need some love. (Whips need to be buffed again, hydra cap needs to be removed or increased to 5. They're weak enough and marines have plenty of counters)
    - Fade blink needs a revert
    - UWE needs to seriously consider allowing 1 hive to upgrade at least leap and maybe other lifeform abilities but at a mucher higher cost/research time. Or it needs to come up with another way to have even 1 hive aliens able to stay somewhat more competitive. Currently this is a huge problem, putting way too much emphasis on the second hive and making a second hive loss almost always a GG.
    - Lerk needs spores back at T1, spikes should be buffed to become a proper T2 choice.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    nope


    and your first paragraph proves exactly why youre wrong. if you have "ninja marines" getting to your hive and killing your upgrades then your team is doing something wrong. i just dont see how you cannot possibly see this. your team being dominated because your team decides not to play aggressive and somehow this is some kind of balance issue? moving upgrades isnt going to fix the fact that your team isnt doing a thing to win the game. so youre saying youre playing games where marines are sitting on 5-6 rts PLUS 2 com chairs? where are your attackers, why arent they killing rts?! why arent your gorges blocking off choke points, why isnt your commander coordinating attacks?! wheres your 2nd hive that can be completely UP 2 minutes into the game?!


    skulks do NOT need to be scaled for late game. skulks are base level attackers/defenders. late game youre supposed to be upgrading to tougher lifeforms. ffs ill put it in a way you may understand better. take a game like counter strike. youre saying that a glock is supposed to scale with a awp late game. theres a reason why the glock is the base weapon and the awp costs money and is valuable. skulks are the starter alien its not supposed to be used the ENTIRE GAME. late game if your team is throwing skulks against jp/shotgunners youre NOT SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO WIN. yes theres still a chance but on the average you should lose this every time. same thing with turtling lmg marines with one com chair (if aliens werent so weak that would be blindingly obvious).

    "basically" what needs to happen is alien teams need to stop camping around non choke points and constantly attack. gorges dont need a DPS boost because GORGES ARENT SUPPOSED TO BE ATTACKING. The spit is basically a defensive attack so that the gorge isnt COMPLETELY open to attack. why else do you think the gorge belly slide was added, so that gorges and run the heck away... hydras need to be increased to 4 or slightly buffed. leap needs to stay where it is at hive 2, hive drops are there for a reason, and the last thing the game needs is more coddling. bad teams shouldnt be rewarded for doing absolutely nothing. marines dont get free upgrades for squatting on one com chair all game, but you want 2nd tier upgrades at hive 1?!

    "come up with another way to have even 1 hive aliens able to stay somewhat more competitive." just.. no. if alien teams need to stay in the game, drop hive 2, defend and get upgrades, just like marine teams do. and yes, losing a hive is supposed to hurt. same as losing a com chair hurts marines.
  • peregrinusperegrinus Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72445Members
    edited October 2012
    My observation is that UWE tends to go too hard when it comes to balance.

    When they decide to change something IMO they'd be better doing it by 50% what they think it should be.

    Otherwise it ends up changing the game too dramatically, and by the next build the teams have come up with entirely new tactics to overcome the big changes, so other problems are masked, left unnoticed, only to reappear 10 builds down the road, by which time there's a host of new features and balance issues to contend with.

    It's hard to balance a game when the game changes with almost every build basically.
  • YuukiYuuki Join Date: 2010-11-20 Member: 75079Members
    I guess the root problem is the alien economy. If alien could get only 2 fades and not 20 then both fades and skulks would need to be stronger. Can't have a lot of strong lifeforms.
  • Soul_RiderSoul_Rider Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    <!--quoteo(post=1987335:date=Oct 5 2012, 12:28 PM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Oct 5 2012, 12:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1987335"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My observation is that UWE tends to go too hard when it comes to balance.

    When they decide to change something IMO they'd be better doing it by 50% what they think it should be.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    QFT.

    Every UWE change is an over-reaction, that then gets reduced incrementally. I'd rather it be not quite enough, then tweaked, rather than being too much and destroying the play.
  • ImbalanxdImbalanxd Join Date: 2011-06-15 Member: 104581Members
    Asymmetry.

    A fully upgraded marine stands a very good chance against a fully upgraded skulk, a very good chance indeed. However, he doesn't stand much of a chance against a Lerk, but he can still pull it off. Against a Fade, he is pretty much guarenteed to die unless the Fade goes AFK. Against an Onos? No chance in hell.

    Sure, being effective with a skulk can be difficult, but you are never helpless, no matter what you are fighting. The same cannot be said for a marine.
  • XariusXarius Join Date: 2003-12-21 Member: 24630Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited October 2012
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->f you have "ninja marines" getting to your hive and killing your upgrades then your team is doing something wrong. i just dont see how you cannot possibly see this. your team being dominated because your team decides not to play aggressive and somehow this is some kind of balance issue?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Marines with phase tech and faster spawn rates have a much easier time holding on to map control than aliens do. This occurs both in competitive games as well as in public ones. It doesn't help that at times you can have the entire alien team spawn on one hive while a single marine is wrecking havoc at the site of another hive. If you have a somewhat competent marine team playing at you, it's impossible as aliens to stop the constant attempts at 'ninjaing' upgrade chambers and harvesters.

    This is especially apparent on maps like docking, which they've made even more marine friendly by providing 'backdoor' corridors.


    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->skulks do NOT need to be scaled for late game. skulks are base level attackers/defenders. late game youre supposed to be upgrading to tougher lifeforms. ffs ill put it in a way you may understand better. take a game like counter strike. youre saying that a glock is supposed to scale with a awp late game. theres a reason why the glock is the base weapon and the awp costs money and is valuable. skulks are the starter alien its not supposed to be used the ENTIRE GAME.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    This statement just proves how ignorant you are of the design of this game. Saying skulks don't need to scale because they are only there for the 'early game' isn't much different from saying that LMGs shouldn't scale to the lategame, since marines can just start using EXOs, shotguns, GLs and flamethrowers later on. What's further disturbing is that you are writing this in a way that only fuels my suspicion that you are the kind of person that can't be reasoned with anyway.

    Skulks ARE supposed to be used the entire game, make no mistake about that. This a simple fact, as you will never have a team entirely consisting of higher lifeforms, and upon death you will be stuck playing a skulk for sometimes a significant period of time, in any stage of the game. (To claim that this isn't the case if you simply didn't die or were a better player would at the very least imply your opponents are bad, since even a good player will die at one point or another if he isn't facing complete tools) The second and third hive abilities given to the skulk aren't particularly helpful, since they are not accessible if your team is stuck or falls back to 1 hive (unlike marine A and W upgrades which are available on just 1 TP and allow the LMG to scale and remain highly competitive, also making the marine team as a whole much more resilient to setbacks)

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->gorges dont need a DPS boost because GORGES ARENT SUPPOSED TO BE ATTACKING. The spit is basically a defensive attack so that the gorge isnt COMPLETELY open to attack. why else do you think the gorge belly slide was added, so that gorges and run the heck away..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's ridiculous that you automatically interpret a DPS boost as an offensive boost to the gorge. DPS boosts can't be useful on the defense, what now? Even if you boosted his DPS, you wouldn't see people use gorges offensively since he's too fragile of a unit for that. But right now the gorge is PISS POOR, even on defense. To not acknowledge this would only show that you probably never play the gorge in the first place. I guess you didn't get the memo that the gorge is supposedly a combat engineer class in NS2, but it goes without saying that currently he is NEITHER combat NOR engineer.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"come up with another way to have even 1 hive aliens able to stay somewhat more competitive." just.. no. if alien teams need to stay in the game, drop hive 2, defend and get upgrades, just like marine teams do. and yes, losing a hive is supposed to hurt. same as losing a com chair hurts marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I was surpsised that I only picked up your raging marine bias at this point, but I'm glad I did in the end anyway. 'Just like marines do'. Because marines can't come back from losing a second chair? What now? Marines are WAY WAY WAY more resilient to setbacks like this, for aliens a second hive loss is almost always a GG. (Certainly if jetpacks are in play) For marines, even with a second CC loss it is still very manageable to get back in the game. (Thanks to W and A 3, ARCs, GLs, Shotguns and Flamethrowers all being available at 1 CC)

    You're either blind or wilfully ignorant if you are going to claim marines do not have a huge tech advantage over aliens.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Join Date: 2003-11-28 Member: 23688
    It's always kinda been like this in NS, on an average pub a couple of good aiming players can join marines and literally dominate skulks, racking up a high k/d ratio. The slower, no bhop skulks in NS2 are just making it even more noticeable.

    It's only going to get easier as an early marine as FPS increases, I'd say skulks are going to need some kind of buff to even it out, be it a speed boost or proper movement technique via bhop or making wall-jump actually useful.
  • countbasiecountbasie Join Date: 2008-12-27 Member: 65884Members
    <!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->What you miss is called Focus.<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->

    They seem to have forgotten it.
  • bEEbbEEb Join Date: 2012-03-24 Member: 149317Members, NS2 Map Tester
    I agree. I dont enjoy playing aliens anymore. I spend 99% of my time playing Marines.
  • alsteralster Join Date: 2003-08-06 Member: 19124Members
    edited October 2012
    Another of my amazing solutions:

    There needs to be a cheap ranged class of aliens to satisfy shooters and people who like to improve their skills in shooting.
    The problem with most players is that they mostly want to play a game where what they do is not so intense or in your face thus the millions of casual shooter players in CS, BF3, COD. Some people never want to play a close mouth or claw combat alien.

    Therefore my solution I give to you a kinda new alien class:

    For 15 res you get the skulk spitter!
    A skulk instead of parasite he gets the powerful gorge spit!
    He of course can get adrenalin or other upgrades. It let's more players spend their res if they think of it more like an upgrade class. Not OP yet not useless either. A cheap solution against JP.

    Amazing or what?
  • twilitebluetwiliteblue bug stalker Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    <!--quoteo(post=1987294:date=Oct 5 2012, 02:09 AM:name=Xarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xarius @ Oct 5 2012, 02:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1987294"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I definitely share that observation and I'd say it's quite problematic. But yea, what others have said, aliens have been hit pretty hard. Currently it feels as if marines have a WAY easier time holding on to map control than aliens, you often see marine teams with 5 - 6 RTS and aliens with 2 - 3. Not to mention the constant ninja marines succeeding in killing upgrade chambers every time.

    Basically what needs to happen imo is:
    - Marine A3 and W3 needs to be moved to 2 CC. This is CRUCIAL, because currently marines can easily stay in the game, even at 1 TP. They have it much much easier than aliens in this regard
    - Skulk needs to better scale into the lategame somehow, hopefully skill based movement will address this somewhat. (As it will help good skulks stay competitive)
    - Gorge needs some love (tougher and/or better dps output), gorge and comm defenses need some love. (Whips need to be buffed again, hydra cap needs to be removed or increased to 5. They're weak enough and marines have plenty of counters)
    - Fade blink needs a revert
    - UWE needs to seriously consider allowing 1 hive to upgrade at least leap and maybe other lifeform abilities but at a mucher higher cost/research time. Or it needs to come up with another way to have even 1 hive aliens able to stay somewhat more competitive. Currently this is a huge problem, putting way too much emphasis on the second hive and making a second hive loss almost always a GG.
    - Lerk needs spores back at T1, spikes should be buffed to become a proper T2 choice.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I would really like to see all of those ideas either tested or restored.

    Marines definitely have a great deal of power progression and flexibility, which aliens lack. It it frustrating to play as Aliens, as they hit the low tech "glass ceilings" repeatedly.
  • ZeikkoZeikko Join Date: 2007-12-16 Member: 63179Members, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester
    <!--quoteo(post=1987388:date=Oct 5 2012, 03:18 PM:name=alster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (alster @ Oct 5 2012, 03:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1987388"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Another of my amazing solutions:

    There needs to be a cheap ranged class of aliens to satisfy shooters and people who like to improve their skills in shooting.
    The problem with most players is that they mostly want to play a game where what they do is not so intense or in your face thus the millions of casual shooter players in CS, BF3, COD. Some people never want to play a close mouth or claw combat alien.

    Therefore my solution I give to you a kinda new alien class:

    For 15 res you get the skulk spitter!
    A skulk instead of parasite he gets the powerful gorge spit!
    He of course can get adrenalin or other upgrades. It let's more players spend their res if they think of it more like an upgrade class. Not OP yet not useless either.

    Amazing or what?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I think lerk can fill the shooter role for aliens. Do you disagree?

    The main problem is that lerk and fade are not worth their cost currently and skulk has no movement mechanic that scales with skill.
  • elmo9000elmo9000 Join Date: 2012-03-24 Member: 149324Members
    edited October 2012
    We need better movement that you can improve on over time (applies for both marines and aliens). Could also scale the skulk model down a bit closer to ns1 level. Collisions need fixing. Should focus on fixing the most basic stuff before starting to change tech/make new abilities imo.
  • elodeaelodea Editlodea Join Date: 2009-06-20 Member: 67877Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited October 2012
    Probably been said already in a thread full of so many words but can't emphasize this enough

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So why are marines so much more deadly than aliens?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Because there is no skill-based movement system for skulks.
  • alsteralster Join Date: 2003-08-06 Member: 19124Members
    I did say a shooting class that was cheap. Lerks don't have the same on the ground shooting like marines that we feel comfortable about like strafing and moving behind cover.
    Combine the movement skills of skulk and the shooting skills of a marine and you have a very high skill cap.
  • NurEinMenschNurEinMensch Join Date: 2003-02-26 Member: 14056Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1987400:date=Oct 5 2012, 03:40 PM:name=elodea)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elodea @ Oct 5 2012, 03:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1987400"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Probably been said already in a thread full of so many words but can't emphasize this enough


    Because there is no skill-based movement system for skulks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
  • Mr.GreedyMr.Greedy Join Date: 2012-07-21 Member: 154270Members
    edited October 2012
    Another solution: Aliens with more upgrades. Not on Lifeforms. I mean the infestation. Alien Territory have to be a feared and dangerous area. Currently its like walking on candy ;> . Let the Khammander elvolve some passive upgrades for the infestation. Possible Upgrades could be:

    - naturel HP regeneration is doubled on infestation
    - infestation poisend marines for 1 dmg/sec
    - movementspeed increased @ 15 % for aliens on infestation
    - movementspeed decreased @ 15 % for marines on inf.
    - all lifeforms are displayed on the minimap when entered the inf. (no macs and exos)
    - infestation seclude a gas that blurry the marine sight just a bit when inhaled (after a few seconds on inf. Not for exos)
    - infestation surrounds every cyst, makeing them harder to see and increased HP @ 20 %
    - infestation destroys marine buildings slowly (like a poisoneffect)

    Buy some flamethrower marine. They make sense now :> .


    edit:
    new thread for this
    <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=121666" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=121666</a>
  • ShakerShaker Join Date: 2002-11-21 Member: 9582Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow
    Playing aliens used to be more fun because you felt rewarded for doing well in the early game by getting to Fade. The Fade was a powerful upgrade and a single marine didn't stand a chance. Now you have a paper fade with weak adrenaline, weak regen, weak and clunking blink. Competitive players don't fear a fade at all, and you'll see them chasing them down as a L1/L1 marine - it's a sad thing indeed.

    With performance increases and hit registration improving you're seeing a lot more accuracy from the marine bullets, while their tech tree has become cheaper and moved much earlier-game.

    Things that I'd like to see:

    Shadowstep gone, blink improved
    Skulk movement skill (walljump, bunnyhopy, anything)
    Adrenaline not being horrible (yeah yeah gorges and lerks use it -lol)


    Because of these changes we would need to see some other things reworked though

    CC hp increase, powernode hp increase, building cap to avoid the late alien structure spam (try killing 16 crags around a hive)


    I'm sure i'm missing stuff but the first point is why I think a lot of people avoid aliens - you just don't feel like you get stronger unless you get an onos. Also, a lot of competitive players use the public servers to practice aiming.
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