Need a different keys for picking up and dropping weapons

JektJekt Join Date: 2012-02-05 Member: 143714Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
edited October 2012 in NS2 General Discussion
Need different keys for picking up and dropping weapons
«1

Comments

  • WilsonWilson Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 72867Members
    edited October 2012
    Yes. G should drop the current weapon. Running over a gun when NOT holding a primary weapon should auto pick it up. If you are holding a primary looking at the weapon on the ground and pressing E should swap your gun with it. G should never pick up a weapon from the ground.

    I also think if a player is within a small radius of a weapon then it shouldn't disappear. I have been standing on top of my shotgun many times about to press G only to see it vanish before my eyes.
  • DghelneshiDghelneshi Aims to surpass Fana in post edits. Join Date: 2011-11-01 Member: 130634Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
    @Wilson: We had E picking up weapons already and it was just horrible.

    While I do think the weapon changing system is a bit clunky, two keys seem a bit overkill.
  • WilsonWilson Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 72867Members
    It is the exact same system in source and it works fine. E was bad because you didn't need to look at the weapon, you just stood over it so while trying to build or whatever you picked up weapons all the time. You don't even need E though. Just having G drop your weapon and then you auto pickup a gun when you run over it (while not already holding one) works well enough. Try counter strike to test it.
  • havok?havok? Join Date: 2012-05-22 Member: 152462Members, NS2 Map Tester
  • JektJekt Join Date: 2012-02-05 Member: 143714Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
    Then use it. Have G for both picking up and dropping. There should still be an option to have two separate keys regardless.
  • Onii-chanOnii-chan Join Date: 2002-11-05 Member: 7164Members
    Agreed with the way source does it, G drops weapon, walking over any other weapon for that slot picks it up.
    Just add some forward momentum for the G drop so you don't pick up the same weapon you just dropped.
  • JektJekt Join Date: 2012-02-05 Member: 143714Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited October 2012
    I don't want to be automatically picking up mines, welders, other peoples guns when I'm trying to pick up a shotgun. So no thanks to the automatic.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    I don't think its a problem with just one key, which is actually a better design (one key to do two similar things). But I do want to see it changed into being a type of hitscan, where you aim at the weapon you want to pick up and press G. Imagine a pile of different weapons after a battle and you want to pick up the shotgun. But it keeps randomly giving you flamethrower, rifles and such. This can be fixed by having it similar to point and click what you want (crosshair hitscan)
  • AgielAgiel Join Date: 2006-11-14 Member: 58605Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Subnautica Playtester
    I agree with Wilson. Having both drop and pick up on G can be very confusing and I think Source and other games do it well. G should only drop the gun you're holding while E picks up the the gun you're aiming at (swapping it with any gun you're holding). Auto pick-up should be toggleable in the options.
  • WilsonWilson Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 72867Members
    They can keep the same system currently in ns2 but just add in the auto pick up for primary weapons only. It is not simpler than source because you need to press G twice in ns2 in many situations when you are quickly trying to grab a gun in combat, in source you only need to press it once.

    Thinking about it more I do think that E should be kept separate for building etc. as it will always lead to situations where you pick up a weapon when trying to build a power node or something like that.

    Here is a video:

    <center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/HcrKKiyQ0uQ"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/HcrKKiyQ0uQ" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
  • AgielAgiel Join Date: 2006-11-14 Member: 58605Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Subnautica Playtester
    <!--quoteo(post=1985592:date=Oct 1 2012, 04:25 PM:name=Wilson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wilson @ Oct 1 2012, 04:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985592"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thinking about it more I do think that E should be kept separate for building etc. as it will always lead to situations where you pick up a weapon when trying to build a power node or something like that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Not if you have to aim at the gun to pick it up. It's very hard currently to pick up a specific gun in a pile of guns. I suppose it could be made easier if some more force was added to the throw of your old gun, but being able to aim at a gun and press E would make a world of difference.
  • askerasker Join Date: 2012-01-29 Member: 142449Members, WC 2013 - Silver
    edited October 2012
    While we are on the subject; isn't it silly to prompt a user with 'G' when they are close to dropped rifles if they already carry a fully loaded one?
  • VeNeMVeNeM Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 928Members
    or.. or.. we could BIND OUR OWN KEYS
  • AgielAgiel Join Date: 2006-11-14 Member: 58605Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Subnautica Playtester
    <!--quoteo(post=1985610:date=Oct 1 2012, 05:08 PM:name=VeNeM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VeNeM @ Oct 1 2012, 05:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985610"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->or.. or.. we could BIND OUR OWN KEYS<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Obviously. Instead of E and G I should've said USE and DROP.
  • ShakerShaker Join Date: 2002-11-21 Member: 9582Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1985610:date=Oct 1 2012, 11:08 AM:name=VeNeM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VeNeM @ Oct 1 2012, 11:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985610"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->or.. or.. we could BIND OUR OWN KEYS<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Now you're just getting crazy
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited October 2012
    Having G be dropweapon, and have autoweapon pickup as well as having to look at the gun model and press E to switch your primary weapon would be fantastic.

    Also can welders please be added to the fourth slot(Equipment slot). It doesn't make sense to be unable to equip the axe until you drop the welder to be able to attack a structure. As you always have your axe but can't use it till you throw your welder on the ground. This also means you would be able to autopickup welders.
  • FlayraFlayra Game Director, Unknown Worlds Entertainment San Francisco Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 3Super Administrators, NS2 Developer, Subnautica Developer
    I agree with you, although we are definitely a bit divided on this.

    We can't add any more keybinds right now (including last weapon) until we make an engine change, so we'll be looking at this again after v1.0.
  • rantologyrantology Join Date: 2012-02-05 Member: 143750Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
    ...but why can menumod do it? Menumod has been around for at least a year+ :/

    Keybindings are kind of important...
  • RuntehRunteh Join Date: 2010-06-26 Member: 72163Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited October 2012
    The reason that this is also a little flawed is the drop and pick up system which causes issues. In games such as CS you throw the weapon instead of dropping, so you pick the right weapon up when you run over it and the discarded weapon ends up in a corner where it doesn't bother anyone.

    Because in NS2 you just drop it, you end up fussing over the pick up.

    CS got it really right if you want to look at that as an example.
  • MurphyIdiotMurphyIdiot NS2 programmer Join Date: 2008-04-17 Member: 64095Members, Super Administrators, NS2 Developer, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts, Future Perfect Developer
    CS also didn't have a bunch of other usable stuff in the world.

    I think BF3 is closer to our use case in terms of having random usables scattered throughout the world combined with the ability to pick up weapons from the ground. In which case BF3 separates the using of stuff with the picking up of weapons.

    If switched to "use", how do you pick up a Shotgun that is up against an Armory? It would involve carefully moving the crosshair until it is directly pointed at the Shotgun assuming the Shotgun isn't a little bit "inside" the Armory due to different collision representations being used. What happens when the commander is dropping structures to build around the weapon you are trying to pick up? Why force people to look down at the weapon instead of just pressing the pickup key? These are the type of questions I don't want to have to answer.
  • WilsonWilson Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 72867Members
    edited October 2012
    Yeah, also the reason why I said maybe having E pick up the weapon you are looking at is a bad idea is I remember a problem in Dod: source. You could also pick up live grenades that the enemy had thrown and throw them back, but sometimes you would press E to pick up the grenade but accidentally pick up an empty weapon from the ground. I could imagine similar situations happing in ns2 with E having more than one function.

    I think having an auto pick up when you don't have a primary is a good solution though. For other equipment like welders and mines the system would work exactly the same as now, but it would just make it easier to pick up primary weapons in the heat of battle since you wouldn't need to press G twice or press it exactly when standing over the weapon. See the video I posted for a demonstration.
  • CodeineCodeine Join Date: 2010-11-22 Member: 75155Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1985813:date=Oct 2 2012, 06:28 AM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Oct 2 2012, 06:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985813"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We can't add any more keybinds right now <b>(including last weapon)</b> until we make an engine change, so we'll be looking at this again after v1.0.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    rofl what?
  • twilitebluetwiliteblue bug stalker Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    How about having to press "G" twice to drop current weapon (like a confirmation)? Whereas if there is a weapon on the ground, pressing "G" once would pick it up.
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1985918:date=Oct 1 2012, 08:28 PM:name=MurphyIdiot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MurphyIdiot @ Oct 1 2012, 08:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985918"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If switched to "use", how do you pick up a Shotgun that is up against an Armory? It would involve carefully moving the crosshair until it is directly pointed at the Shotgun assuming the Shotgun isn't a little bit "inside" the Armory due to different collision representations being used.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Sounds like someone should fix that.

    <!--quoteo(post=1985918:date=Oct 1 2012, 08:28 PM:name=MurphyIdiot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MurphyIdiot @ Oct 1 2012, 08:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985918"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What happens when the commander is dropping structures to build around the weapon you are trying to pick up? Why force people to look down at the weapon instead of just pressing the pickup key? These are the type of questions I don't want to have to answer.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This is what autoweapon pickup would be for. Have the weapon autopickup in the item's radius when the player doesn't already have a weapon in that slot. So you press G to toss your current weapon and you quickly pick it up.

    You could do away with manually picking up weapons at that point.
  • MouseMouse The Lighter Side of Pessimism Join Date: 2002-03-02 Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    edited October 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=1985978:date=Oct 2 2012, 02:24 PM:name=Codeine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Codeine @ Oct 2 2012, 02:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985978"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=1985813:date=Oct 2 2012, 06:28 AM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Oct 2 2012, 06:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985813"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We can't add any more keybinds right now <b>(including last weapon)</b> until we make an engine change, so we'll be looking at this again after v1.0.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->rofl what?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    To take a guess, there are two reasons for this:

    1. They're in feature lockdown, so no new features will be added until after 1.0 is released
    2. I haven't looked into it, but it's possible that in the current version of the engine there is a hard limit on the number of abilities that can be bound to keys (perhaps 32, 64 or some other appropriate number) and/or only one key can be bound per ability. Fixing this would presumably require a significant rewrite of the input system - hence them not getting around to it before now.
  • CodeineCodeine Join Date: 2010-11-22 Member: 75155Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1985996:date=Oct 2 2012, 03:48 PM:name=Mouse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mouse @ Oct 2 2012, 03:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985996"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->rofl what?

    To take a guess, there are two reasons for this:

    1. They're in feature lockdown, so no new features will be added until after 1.0 is released
    2. I haven't looked into it, but it's possible that in the current version of the engine there is a hard limit on the number of abilities that can be bound to keys (perhaps 32, 64 or some other appropriate number) and/or only one key can be bound per ability. Fixing this would presumably require a significant rewrite of the input system - hence them not getting around to it before now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Sounds like someone didn't plan for the future. and menumod does it. im sure UWE can find a way. instead of rewriting the whole engine to add one ###### bind. Sounds a bit pre 1990
  • Raza.Raza. Join Date: 2004-01-24 Member: 25663Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1985813:date=Oct 1 2012, 10:28 PM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Oct 1 2012, 10:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985813"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I agree with you, although we are definitely a bit divided on this.

    We can't add any more keybinds right now (including last weapon) until we make an engine change, so we'll be looking at this again after v1.0.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Lol? This intrigues me, how is the keybind system implemented? Surely you can't have run out of keys to use. :D
  • NeoRussiaNeoRussia Join Date: 2012-08-04 Member: 154743Members
    implement menumod officially, it looks sooo much nicer and they added tons of needed features. I know plenty of people are going to be using it forever anyway ;)
  • MurphyIdiotMurphyIdiot NS2 programmer Join Date: 2008-04-17 Member: 64095Members, Super Administrators, NS2 Developer, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts, Future Perfect Developer
    <!--quoteo(post=1985996:date=Oct 1 2012, 10:48 PM:name=Mouse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mouse @ Oct 1 2012, 10:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985996"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->rofl what?

    To take a guess, there are two reasons for this:

    1. They're in feature lockdown, so no new features will be added until after 1.0 is released
    2. I haven't looked into it, but it's possible that in the current version of the engine there is a hard limit on the number of abilities that can be bound to keys (perhaps 32, 64 or some other appropriate number) and/or only one key can be bound per ability. Fixing this would presumably require a significant rewrite of the input system - hence them not getting around to it before now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    You nailed it. Combination of lockdown, 32 bit limit, and very low priority right now. Lots of input code will be improved post 1.0 to make it happen.


    <!--quoteo(post=1985990:date=Oct 1 2012, 10:16 PM:name=IeptBarakat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IeptBarakat @ Oct 1 2012, 10:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985990"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sounds like someone should fix that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I wish it were that easy. These types of problems can't simply be "fixed" without causing other problems.


    <!--quoteo(post=1986002:date=Oct 1 2012, 11:07 PM:name=Codeine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Codeine @ Oct 1 2012, 11:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1986002"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sounds like someone didn't plan for the future. and menumod does it. im sure UWE can find a way. instead of rewriting the whole engine to add one ###### bind. Sounds a bit pre 1990<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Correct. We didn't meticulously plan everything out. This is a relatively small issue that we will easily fix post 1.0. Nothing to worry about, we got this. BTW, you are good at being overly dramatic. Rewriting a "whole engine"? Really?
  • RuntehRunteh Join Date: 2010-06-26 Member: 72163Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited October 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=1985918:date=Oct 2 2012, 01:28 AM:name=MurphyIdiot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MurphyIdiot @ Oct 2 2012, 01:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985918"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->CS also didn't have a bunch of other usable stuff in the world.

    I think BF3 is closer to our use case in terms of having random usables scattered throughout the world combined with the ability to pick up weapons from the ground. In which case BF3 separates the using of stuff with the picking up of weapons.

    If switched to "use", how do you pick up a Shotgun that is up against an Armory? It would involve carefully moving the crosshair until it is directly pointed at the Shotgun assuming the Shotgun isn't a little bit "inside" the Armory due to different collision representations being used. What happens when the commander is dropping structures to build around the weapon you are trying to pick up? Why force people to look down at the weapon instead of just pressing the pickup key? These are the type of questions I don't want to have to answer.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Not sure which CS you are talking about, 1.6 just had G for drop weapon as default and e for use like Half life. There is also an option for auto-weapon switch on pick up.

    <center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/sod0KVT47v4"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/sod0KVT47v4" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
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