My thoughts on 219
cartmaan
Join Date: 2012-09-12 Member: 159127Members
Join Date: 2012-09-12 Member: 159127Members
Since the last patch or fix you guys made, you have somehow made the alien spawn timer worst, why don't you just get the scale right with the eggs can't be that hard to do.
These are just some more annoyances I currently have with the game;
Marines being able to get into small vents, they either shouldnt be able to or if they do they should have a very reduced turning speed.
Marine commanders being able to reprocess any buildings even though they are damaged wihch is just stupid, they should have to be at full health for it to be repocessed or if they reprocessed whilst damaged they should only get a small fraction of the res back.
Mines should cost more or they should kill marines just as easily as they kill skulks, too many times marines can spam mines and sit on them and occur no damage.
Also reduced framerate since the patch.
These are just some more annoyances I currently have with the game;
Marines being able to get into small vents, they either shouldnt be able to or if they do they should have a very reduced turning speed.
Marine commanders being able to reprocess any buildings even though they are damaged wihch is just stupid, they should have to be at full health for it to be repocessed or if they reprocessed whilst damaged they should only get a small fraction of the res back.
Mines should cost more or they should kill marines just as easily as they kill skulks, too many times marines can spam mines and sit on them and occur no damage.
Also reduced framerate since the patch.
Comments
The new alien spawning system whilst in theory is better, it isn't, it makes it a hundred times easier for marines to lock down a hive, and the annoyance of getting a 15 second spawn timer, followed by a pause then another 15 second spawn timer is alot worse than before.
As cart says with vents, I have no problem with marines getting in them, thats fine, but with that should come a sense of vulnerability, not sure how that would work.
100% agree on Marine comms reprocessing damaged structures, its a pain for the commander to micromanage and would for more strategic gameplay if structures had to be repaired first.
Minespam 100% agree, really annoying to go in for a marine who seems impervious to mine damage, again not exactly sure how this would be fixed given the trolling potential.
A Skulk with Carapace can survive a Mine, too.
Any building recycled with 20%health gives back 20% of spent res (50%health=50%res back, etc.... )
Mines don't shoot at skulks. If they drop mines in an area, go to a different area. Use alien vision and don't walk over them.
I've been getting a fairly consistent 30-35fps since 217, no change for me with 219
1) alien spawn times are far better for larger playercounts now! No more static 3 aliens per wave, now its just one wave regardless of hives and amount dead. so the only time the wave timing should be low is if your actual eggs in base are being destroyed by marines... in which case you should spawn at typical rates anyways. :)
2) marines getting into vents is a time honored tradition.. dont think this will ever change. its risky and devious and fun.
3) recycling is based off the remaining amount of hp left on that structure so if its really hurt they get less back. so once again no issue here
4) one time use , permanent mines cost almost as much as a recycle-able, ever refilling shotgun (15 pres vs 20) so its pretty good trade off there.. oh and your own mines DO hurt you if you are near them.. quite a bit actually.
5) most are seeing a framerate increase, so make sure you running r_stats in the console to verify, and make sure you join the best performing servers because this will impact you, oh and disable reflections and ambient occlusion for faster performance.
EDIT:
<!--quoteo(post=1976571:date=Sep 12 2012, 03:59 PM:name=The Game)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Game @ Sep 12 2012, 03:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976571"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The new alien spawning system whilst in theory is better, it isn't, it makes it a hundred times easier for marines to lock down a hive, and the annoyance of getting a 15 second spawn timer, followed by a pause then another 15 second spawn timer is alot worse than before.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This sounds like a bug.. you should only have one wave, no pausing or 30 seconds, unless your team is losing eggs to marines. please verify and provide reproducing steps if this is happening. thanks
The spawn timer doubling happened twice tonight, one marine was killing eggs at the hive (and in typical pub fashion all the skulks that were supposed to be defending were infact away running straight at marines), timer counted down from about 14/15 seconds to spawn, came to the 'please wait to spawn', then the timer restarted (not sure exactly what triggered it). I'll try a few more games tomorrow and see if it happens again or if I can replicate it
Thanks
<!--quoteo(post=1976582:date=Sep 12 2012, 04:20 PM:name=The Game)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Game @ Sep 12 2012, 04:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976582"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->then the timer restarted (not sure exactly what triggered it).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thar be your answer! :-)
something like (dont quote me) 1 egg spawns for every 2 players.. so if your eggs start getting killed and aliens are waiting in a wave.. those who died first will spawn in the remaining eggs that are available and those that dont have a place to spawn will have to wait for the next wave now.
This makes it so you dont end up with 10+ skulks spawning on your position as you try to take out the hive - i,e, never being able to.
Typically you want to kill a marine right away who is in your base, or prevent it from occuring.. just like a skulk on a command chair or on the IPs.
I recommend whips around corners and hydras in base.
Also there IS an emergency respawn of eggs if i recall as well as the shift hive being able to spawn more eggs.. so there are ways to recover from such a thing at a tres cost. (just like a distress beacon on marines)
This has always been the idea behind cara, it was this way even in ns1.
<!--quoteo(post=1976579:date=Sep 12 2012, 04:09 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Sep 12 2012, 04:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976579"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->marines getting into vents is a time honored tradition.. dont think this will ever change. its risky and devious and fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree and love to get into vents too but there do seem to be a lot of vents marines can get into, especially with a recent patch where in many places a marine can just climb up a wall and get into one.
I can understand lerk gas obstructing the view of marines but umbra should not be able to do it too.
It boggles my mind what they did with turrets in patch 219, I just cannot understand why they destroyed turrets. Turrets are meant to hit aliens, hit life forms and do damage. If the marines want to get a siege weapon then they get arcs or maybe change it to when arcs kill buildings if an alien is close to the building the take damage as well. <!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro--><!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->You don’t use a stationary object for an offensive movement.<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
5 res for 3 mines, which is around half the price of hydras and so much more effective. They'll actually kill something and early game units have no legitimate way to kill something with mines on short of sacrificing themselves, if comms couldnt drop mines that would be fine because then the 15 pres is fine, its just the 5 tres thats silly
Marines shouldn't get in vents without jetpacks I feel.
Alien spawn, dear god why cant you just make it so that as the game goes on more of the team can spawn at once. 3 at once at the start of the game makes some sense, but later on its just dumb.
Lerk is improved but spikes are still trash and its annoying even having them on the right click let alone having to start with them.
Harvesters still feel far too weak, its very easy for a single marine to axe a harvester down before a skulk can get anywhere near it. This is due to both not being able to teleport through hives, close RTs actually being very far away and harvesters being so weak especially when new. I often dont bother even trying to expand as khamm, the prohibative cost of cysts and long build time combined with how weak the res towers are (takes 3 minuets for 1 to pay itself off) mean i typically just stick to 2 base res towers and whichever 1 is inbetween the hives. Being almost forced into fast hive drop->leap+cara->celerity -> fade ups is really boring, I just feel if the harvesters were actually as good as extractors alot more interesting alien khamm play could be a possibility. As for now I spend most of my time afking waiting for upgrades to build since its too expensive to expand and too risky to do things like set up a forward base
And yes the comm should be charged more for dropping equipment, as its not his primary role. See this patch's latest pre evolved egg adjustments.
Also spike accuracy will be improved
And yes the comm should be charged more for dropping equipment, as its not his primary role. See this patch's latest pre evolved egg adjustments.
Also spike accuracy will be improved<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So it is, I honestly cant say I've noticed a different at all as marine or alien. It still seems just as easy to waltz into an alien base and go looking for upgrades or smack the base res about
They only get a part of the res back even when its full HP anyway. But i agree in away, but to have it so it cant be recycled while taking damage and not it it has been damaged
Yes there is
Either they didnt un-implement it properly or theres a bug that lets only 3 people spawn now, instead of a feature.
Previously, 10 dead aliens would have meant > 1 minute waiting in spawnqueue for the last three aliens (and any other alien dying in the meantime ).
Don't see how that can be considered an improvement.
And if the aliens repeat that a few times, they will run out of eggs. The maximum number of eggs per hive is 9, and the maxium rate of egg production for a hive is 6 eggs per minute and it slows down with more eggs available. Getting a 9-egg hive up takes a lot of time, guesstimate about 3 minutes if no aliens die.
It's not the huge waiting time so much anymore, but the type of gameplay it creates; big groups of skulks rushing around, and long times without any lifeforms. I think the game was better with basic spawn mechanism. Maybe a soft spawn wave like I proposed could do it.
Makes me feel like I'm playing tower defense as marine ("here is the second wave of skulks!").
I knew this answer would pop out.
Still not being able to do anything vs 3 marines is dumb. Especialy when you did manage to kill one right at start while his buddies empited a clip into you, now you have around 800 hp and 500 armor and you get roflstomped by other two in the process
Still not being able to do anything vs 3 marines is dumb. Especialy when you did manage to kill one right at start while his buddies empited a clip into you, now you have around 800 hp and 500 armor and you get roflstomped by other two in the process<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is the way the NS is balanced. When every Alien player can become an Onos, they cannot be as powerful as they were in NS (when they costed a lot more). Paying a massive amount of resources does not grant one player godlike powers. This applies to Marines as well: a lone Exo can be taken down by 2 or 3 good Skulks or Fades.
You mentioned Shotguns in your previous example. Three shotguns are not exactly cheap (60 personal res), they're suppose to be superior to Rifles at close range. I would not advise solo engaging against more than two marines with Shotguns as any alien class.
Now back to your Onos vs 3 Marine example. With three Hives, aliens gain a massive advantage over Marines. Onos can Stomp. One Onos can comfortably kill 3 Marines without Exos or Jetpacks. Lerks can protect the Onos with Umbra, which blocks half of the bullets!
NS2 is a game with as much emphasis on team work as its predecessor.
Onos are squishier because they removed hide armor. So lmgs hit them harder now than before this, 219, patch. Supposedly the health/armor increase (which quite a few people on the forums said not to do) is suppose to help them against exosuits. But even with the "increased" health pool, if they can't handle a few lmg marines, I have serious doubts about going against an exosuit with one. Onos is still a bad idea to spend p.res on. Their effectiveness from NS1 to NS2 was severely cut with the removal of devour. Without an ability that is similar in nature to devour or bone armor to help with survivability to allow them to be effective in combat, they won't work.
Edit: Supposedly bone armor isn't being added until post-1.0, so I say it's best to avoid using onos until then.
Edit: Supposedly bone armor isn't being added until post-1.0, so I say it's best to avoid using onos until then.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
devour is not the reason , as even a 2 hive onos was hive lethal. the problem is that the attack speed is terribly slow now so while you can absorb more damage than the average alien, it gets cancelled out because you are the slowest attacker on the team. onos needs gore/charge and a faster primary attack.
You mean to tell me that turning a 3v1 into a 2v1 while gaining health from having devoured a marine wasn't the reason why onos were effective and lethal in NS1? I'll agree that the attack needs to be better than what it currently is, more damage or faster.
Edit: Compelling. Do tell me more.
Don't see how that can be considered an improvement.
And if the aliens repeat that a few times, they will run out of eggs. The maximum number of eggs per hive is 9, and the maxium rate of egg production for a hive is 6 eggs per minute and it slows down with more eggs available. Getting a 9-egg hive up takes a lot of time, guesstimate about 3 minutes if no aliens die.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
would it have been too difficult to implement a scaling wave spawn? 1 per wave per 2 aliens -> 3 wave at 6v6, 4 at 8v8, 5 at 10v10, 6 at 12v12. etc. seems so simple.
Do you guys play the game? I play 5+ hours a day. An onos just melts in front of a duel exo.
Alien spawn time still sucks. How many timers are there? There’s a 3 to 12 second respawn time or more in some cases, then there’s another 2 second spawn time when you’re an egg. And I love the 12 second spawn time that constantly glitches and resets the spawn timer. There no marines in a hive no killing of eggs it just resets on its own.
Fade is straight up op. I’ve been in too many games where 1 person goes fade and the game ends. The fade never dies and ranks up scores of 100+ and 3.
I think the confusion is that its counting down for a wave spawn, but will only spawn as many players as there are available eggs for them to hatch in. Otherwise, it just resets the counter. Playing a practice match last night, I actually ended up staying dead for something like 87 seconds (and only that because the last hive finally died). It was a bit frustrating, but I think its just that its a bit misleading.
That said, I think the wave spawn system is much improved over the previous version, though it could still use some tweaking I think.
Edit: Compelling. Do tell me more.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Did you miss it earlier? Stomp. In NS1 onosing was like a fade, run in, grab a guy, gore a couple dudes then run out to digest and regen. Now you run in, stomp, kill a dude, stomp, kill another dude, stomp, etc etc. You can easily kill three marines, well maybe not easy but it wasn't a cakewalk in ns1 either.
Stomp that requires having three hives, and hoping that those three marines don't have jet packs either which are still pennies to afford.
But if you like, we can agree on where onos are semi-useful is when marines only have one tech point, unable to purchase jetpacks, and the game was already on the tail end of being over without the presence of onos in the first place. Dem real useful.