Does nobody else think that Umbra being a third hive ability is kind of wasting one of the Lerk's biggest opportunities to be a key player in big conflicts? I mean, if the aliens have three hives, the game is pretty much over already. I don't think I've ever had the chance to use Umbra in a tense moment of life or death.
<!--quoteo(post=1972832:date=Sep 6 2012, 10:57 AM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Sep 6 2012, 10:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1972832"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Does nobody else think that Umbra being a third hive ability is kind of wasting one of the Lerk's biggest opportunities to be a key player in big conflicts? I mean, if the aliens have three hives, the game is pretty much over already. I don't think I've ever had the chance to use Umbra in a tense moment of life or death.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Umbra is borderline OP at third hive. Grenades are the only thing that can stop your team's near-invincible rampage. We don't need that kind of power coming out at Hive2.
<!--quoteo(post=1972852:date=Sep 6 2012, 06:20 PM:name=Techercizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Techercizer @ Sep 6 2012, 06:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1972852"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Umbra is borderline OP at third hive. Grenades are the only thing that can stop your team's near-invincible rampage. We don't need that kind of power coming out at Hive2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The power of Umbra can be tweaked and adjusted, but the gameplay it creates can't be substituted. When I'm a lerk with Umbra I actually feel like I am uniquely contributing to a fight. When I attack with a group of skulks, using bite and spikes, <i>I </i>feel like the leper of the group, even though I cost 30 res.
I don't want the power of umbra to be tweaked. Like you, I love how powerful it is right now, and I'd rather be able to make a real difference in combat at 3rd hive then be able to sort of help a bit at 2nd. I can help enough with spikes and spores at 2nd hive.
Switching spikes and spores back around isn't going to solve anything. Lerk will still completely ineffective late game and will be back to being useless again early game at everything; killing marines and structures. NS2 lerk is a trap. 30 p.res to nerf yourself.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
Lol .. Most are saying 216 worked fine save for some small adjustment and now that a change for the worst was made and bugs were left in the ns1 suggestions come out again like its the only option.. Sigh
Fyi nubs the lerk was worth every penny in 216 imo. look at the forums at that time too, plenty of people agreeing and almost no one suggesting a change. (save for fana bringing up the valid point of ranged and short.. Which spikes and spores could have accomplished. But : shrug:)
after over a year of frustrating lerk play, I'm supremely happy about crop dusting.. And if you think its ineffective I'm not going to say "youre doing it wrong" but perhaps you should watch saba or someone else use it properly, it can be quite powerful in my personal experiences
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1972945:date=Sep 6 2012, 07:18 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Sep 6 2012, 07:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1972945"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fyi nubs the lerk was worth every penny in 216 imo.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well this is pretty funny I guess.
<!--quoteo(post=1972945:date=Sep 6 2012, 02:18 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Sep 6 2012, 02:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1972945"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Lol .. Most are saying 216 worked fine save for some small adjustment and now that a change for the worst was made and bugs were left in the ns1 suggestions come out again like its the only option.. Sigh
Fyi nubs the lerk was worth every penny in 216 imo. look at the forums at that time too, plenty of people agreeing and almost no one suggesting a change. (save for fana bringing up the valid point of ranged and short.. Which spikes and spores could have accomplished. But : shrug:)
after over a year of frustrating lerk play, I'm supremely happy about crop dusting.. And if you think its ineffective I'm not going to say "youre doing it wrong" but perhaps you should watch saba or someone else use it properly, it can be quite powerful in my personal experiences<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Interesting, considering since I've been on these forums the lerk has received nothing but complaints. I guess that just falls down to people see only want they want to see. I see lerk as an abomination while you saw the opposite with 216 lerk. I see a complete lack of late game usefulness while I dunno what you see there. You want spores and spikes swapped back around, to me that will just kill the lerks' early game presence while it still maintains its complete lack of usefulness late game.
Even if some how I'm "doing it wrong", which surprisingly a few post in this thread alone hints that people tend to use it as mostly an escape measure instead of its actual intended function, I hardly even care anymore. I've completely written off the lerk and I truly do not expect it to ever be a viable lifeform. I'll pass on watching saba or someone else. I'll stick with the skulk and be of more use to the team or go fade, the one decent late game lifeform that I can go 40-3 with and actually end the game with.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
No no you misunderstand me, I believe that he suffered late game , but then again most aliens do due to a lack of scaling, though umbra helped just a tad. And I also know that he needs ranged and melee, hence why I suggested spikes and spores over the 216 lerk's bite and spores. And yes I guess those posts I saw about the lerk finally being in a good place are highly anecdotal and subjective.
@fana: don't know what you were contributing there exactly but yea I'd take 216 lerk over 217 or 218 any day. Even you said it now fails in both areas.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1972989:date=Sep 6 2012, 08:47 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Sep 6 2012, 08:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1972989"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->@fana: don't know what you were contributing there exactly but yea I'd take 216 lerk over 217 or 218 any day. Even you said it now fails in both areas.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I had the option between raging or laughing; I picked the latter. You calling the posters who disagree with you, including me, nubs and suggesting we should go watch saba to learn to lerk, is nothing short of hilarious.
Changing the Lerk back from completely broken to only mostly broken, is not a solution.
Yes, but what does it actually <b><i>do</i></b>. Yes it deals damage with spikes, but does it do more damage than skulk bite? Does flying allow it to perform some important task which benefits the team? Does it soak enough bullets to justify the 30 res investment?
<!--quoteo(post=1973011:date=Sep 6 2012, 12:17 PM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Sep 6 2012, 12:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1973011"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes, but what does it actually <b><i>do</i></b>. Yes it deals damage with spikes, but does it do more damage than skulk bite? Does flying allow it to perform some important task which benefits the team? Does it soak enough bullets to justify the 30 res investment?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, Spores allow them to wreck havoc on a Marine base if the flyby is the prelude to an Alien assault. And most of the time that I sneak around to an enemy Hive to kill it (or at least damage it enough to force the Aliens to pull back), generally it's a Lerk that kills me when I'm using a JP. Skulks and Fades can be kited around for quite some time, but a Lerk...not so much.
I don't know if that makes it worth 30 res (and the issues with spore have already been discussed), but it does have advantages over Skulks.
<!--quoteo(post=1973011:date=Sep 6 2012, 03:17 PM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Sep 6 2012, 03:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1973011"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes, but what does it actually <b><i>do</i></b>. Yes it deals damage with spikes, but does it do more damage than skulk bite? Does flying allow it to perform some important task which benefits the team? Does it soak enough bullets to justify the 30 res investment?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The Lerk <i>does</i> whatever you make it do. I like to support my allies, stay evasive, and decimate whole swaths of marines a with lethal carpet-gassing or a brutal wind of spiked death from the sky. I also like long glides on the beach and Gorges who aren't afraid of a little spit.
<!--quoteo(post=1973011:date=Sep 6 2012, 01:17 PM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Sep 6 2012, 01:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1973011"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes, but what does it actually <b><i>do</i></b>. Yes it deals damage with spikes, but does it do more damage than skulk bite? Does flying allow it to perform some important task which benefits the team? Does it soak enough bullets to justify the 30 res investment?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The ranged harassment is what makes Lerks valuable over Skulks. They can engage and not die, leaving Spores around to help breka up groups and soften them for a serious engagement. Since they have very little extra health, only pro Lerks should be forcing close engagements unless they are sure they will win.
Also, flying makes cleaning up JPs is much easier, although Fades are usually still the goto for that duty.
Really hating lerk this patch. I keep killing lerks as marine, and when a lerk myself I cannot kill a single marine - have to run away or let someone else finish him.
Need spores back with first hive, needs more armour. Spores need more damage.
<!--quoteo(post=1973091:date=Sep 6 2012, 10:07 PM:name=TimMc)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TimMc @ Sep 6 2012, 10:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1973091"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Really hating lerk this patch. I keep killing lerks as marine, and when a lerk myself I cannot kill a single marine - have to run away or let someone else finish him.
Need spores back with first hive, needs more armour. Spores need more damage.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1973091:date=Sep 6 2012, 02:07 PM:name=TimMc)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TimMc @ Sep 6 2012, 02:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1973091"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Really hating lerk this patch. I keep killing lerks as marine, and when a lerk myself I cannot kill a single marine - have to run away or let someone else finish him.
Need spores back with first hive, needs more armour. Spores need more damage.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you playing Lerk as a support? Like use voice chat to say 'Hey, there's a group of Marines headed toward <insert location here>. Some Skulks come over to hit them with me.' and then when the Skulks get there, spray the Marines with spores while the Skulks rush?
Lerks aren't especially good at securing kills for themselves, but neither are Flamethrower Marines (for example).
All I can say is I used to go strictly lerk in NS1 days. I would often hit 30/0, 40/1 easy. Kamekaze into a group, umbra, and bite away. I see now that lerks are lower on the list so you dont see spores often or umbra. But today I tried to focus on lerking and saw the really bad delay in bites, and then promptly died. I don't think I'll really get into Lerking as it stands now. It just feels much too different. Fast bite, umbra blocking 4/5 bullets, that was the way to go. Amazing how the marines still wouldn't pull a knife.
It's funny because we've had like 4 or 5 periods now where the lerk was actually worth using, and everyone cried until it got reduced to garbage again. What happened to the fix-all redesign process?
<!--quoteo(post=1973099:date=Sep 7 2012, 09:11 AM:name=Kopikat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kopikat @ Sep 7 2012, 09:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1973099"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Are you playing Lerk as a support? Like use voice chat to say 'Hey, there's a group of Marines headed toward <insert location here>. Some Skulks come over to hit them with me.' and then when the Skulks get there, spray the Marines with spores while the Skulks rush?
Lerks aren't especially good at securing kills for themselves, but neither are Flamethrower Marines (for example).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Have you played lerk? Unless comm has lots of res spores dont get researched (leap, Blink, Bile bomb etc all take precedence).
Lerks are pretty much stuck with just spike and bite, flamethrower marines get more kills than a lerk (a lot more if you include structures).
I agree with TimMc, the lerk needs some buffs and changes, spores need to be 1st hive or ranged (which would increase lerk survival rate and encourage comms to research it as it is helpful...where as flyby runs are too risky (both P-res and T-res wise))
Up armour and HP slightly (balance lerk to survive against w2 a1 marines longer 1v1..but lose to w2 a2), make spores ranged, increase damage from spores.
<!--quoteo(post=1973150:date=Sep 6 2012, 03:25 PM:name=hakenspit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hakenspit @ Sep 6 2012, 03:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1973150"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Have you played lerk?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I only play Marines because I like feeling like I'm contributing by helping the Comm directly. As an Alien, the only way to 'contribute' is really just to kill people or help others kill people while the Khamm does all the work. Which is dull.
Make spores hive 1, and make them shoot out a few feet ahead of and below you. Make it a short ranged gas flamethrower, and it will still drift down and trail behind you, but you can at least cover a door without showing your face.
Umbra at hive 2
Either buff spikes a ton, or primal scream for hive 3
<!--quoteo(post=1973132:date=Sep 7 2012, 12:58 AM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Sep 7 2012, 12:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1973132"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's funny because we've had like 4 or 5 periods now where the lerk was actually worth using, and everyone cried until it got reduced to garbage again. What happened to the fix-all redesign process?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What happened to being sour? Oh wait, you stuck with it. Way to persevere.
<!--quoteo(post=1973180:date=Sep 6 2012, 08:01 PM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Sep 6 2012, 08:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1973180"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What happened to being sour? Oh wait, you stuck with it. Way to persevere.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
Umbra is borderline OP at third hive. Grenades are the only thing that can stop your team's near-invincible rampage. We don't need that kind of power coming out at Hive2.
The power of Umbra can be tweaked and adjusted, but the gameplay it creates can't be substituted. When I'm a lerk with Umbra I actually feel like I am uniquely contributing to a fight. When I attack with a group of skulks, using bite and spikes, <i>I </i>feel like the leper of the group, even though I cost 30 res.
Let's just bring back NS1 lerk and cut the crap instead of wasting our time with repeated failures.
-Bite(or spikes)/Ranged Spore
-Umbra
-Primal Scream
Switching spikes and spores back around isn't going to solve anything. Lerk will still completely ineffective late game and will be back to being useless again early game at everything; killing marines and structures. NS2 lerk is a trap. 30 p.res to nerf yourself.
Fyi nubs the lerk was worth every penny in 216 imo.
look at the forums at that time too, plenty of people agreeing and almost no one suggesting a change. (save for fana bringing up the valid point of ranged and short.. Which spikes and spores could have accomplished. But : shrug:)
after over a year of frustrating lerk play, I'm supremely happy about crop dusting.. And if you think its ineffective I'm not going to say "youre doing it wrong" but perhaps you should watch saba or someone else use it properly, it can be quite powerful in my personal experiences
Well this is pretty funny I guess.
Fyi nubs the lerk was worth every penny in 216 imo.
look at the forums at that time too, plenty of people agreeing and almost no one suggesting a change. (save for fana bringing up the valid point of ranged and short.. Which spikes and spores could have accomplished. But : shrug:)
after over a year of frustrating lerk play, I'm supremely happy about crop dusting.. And if you think its ineffective I'm not going to say "youre doing it wrong" but perhaps you should watch saba or someone else use it properly, it can be quite powerful in my personal experiences<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Interesting, considering since I've been on these forums the lerk has received nothing but complaints. I guess that just falls down to people see only want they want to see. I see lerk as an abomination while you saw the opposite with 216 lerk. I see a complete lack of late game usefulness while I dunno what you see there. You want spores and spikes swapped back around, to me that will just kill the lerks' early game presence while it still maintains its complete lack of usefulness late game.
Even if some how I'm "doing it wrong", which surprisingly a few post in this thread alone hints that people tend to use it as mostly an escape measure instead of its actual intended function, I hardly even care anymore. I've completely written off the lerk and I truly do not expect it to ever be a viable lifeform. I'll pass on watching saba or someone else. I'll stick with the skulk and be of more use to the team or go fade, the one decent late game lifeform that I can go 40-3 with and actually end the game with.
NS1 Lerk or bust.
And I also know that he needs ranged and melee, hence why I suggested spikes and spores over the 216 lerk's bite and spores. And yes I guess those posts I saw about the lerk finally being in a good place are highly anecdotal and subjective.
@fana: don't know what you were contributing there exactly but yea I'd take 216 lerk over 217 or 218 any day. Even you said it now fails in both areas.
Fly. Shoot less sucky projectiles. Soak bullets.
Unless there are alot of aliens playing, upgrading lerks won't get the same team wide benefits of upgrdaing say, leap.
I had the option between raging or laughing; I picked the latter. You calling the posters who disagree with you, including me, nubs and suggesting we should go watch saba to learn to lerk, is nothing short of hilarious.
Changing the Lerk back from completely broken to only mostly broken, is not a solution.
Yes, but what does it actually <b><i>do</i></b>. Yes it deals damage with spikes, but does it do more damage than skulk bite? Does flying allow it to perform some important task which benefits the team? Does it soak enough bullets to justify the 30 res investment?
Well, Spores allow them to wreck havoc on a Marine base if the flyby is the prelude to an Alien assault. And most of the time that I sneak around to an enemy Hive to kill it (or at least damage it enough to force the Aliens to pull back), generally it's a Lerk that kills me when I'm using a JP. Skulks and Fades can be kited around for quite some time, but a Lerk...not so much.
I don't know if that makes it worth 30 res (and the issues with spore have already been discussed), but it does have advantages over Skulks.
The Lerk <i>does</i> whatever you make it do. I like to support my allies, stay evasive, and decimate whole swaths of marines a with lethal carpet-gassing or a brutal wind of spiked death from the sky. I also like long glides on the beach and Gorges who aren't afraid of a little spit.
Kinky.
I like 'em feisty.
The ranged harassment is what makes Lerks valuable over Skulks. They can engage and not die, leaving Spores around to help breka up groups and soften them for a serious engagement. Since they have very little extra health, only pro Lerks should be forcing close engagements unless they are sure they will win.
Also, flying makes cleaning up JPs is much easier, although Fades are usually still the goto for that duty.
Need spores back with first hive, needs more armour. Spores need more damage.
Need spores back with first hive, needs more armour. Spores need more damage.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lmao
Need spores back with first hive, needs more armour. Spores need more damage.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you playing Lerk as a support? Like use voice chat to say 'Hey, there's a group of Marines headed toward <insert location here>. Some Skulks come over to hit them with me.' and then when the Skulks get there, spray the Marines with spores while the Skulks rush?
Lerks aren't especially good at securing kills for themselves, but neither are Flamethrower Marines (for example).
I see now that lerks are lower on the list so you dont see spores often or umbra.
But today I tried to focus on lerking and saw the really bad delay in bites, and then promptly died. I don't think I'll really get into Lerking as it stands now. It just feels much too different.
Fast bite, umbra blocking 4/5 bullets, that was the way to go.
Amazing how the marines still wouldn't pull a knife.
What happened to the fix-all redesign process?
Lerks aren't especially good at securing kills for themselves, but neither are Flamethrower Marines (for example).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Have you played lerk?
Unless comm has lots of res spores dont get researched (leap, Blink, Bile bomb etc all take precedence).
Lerks are pretty much stuck with just spike and bite, flamethrower marines get more kills than a lerk (a lot more if you include structures).
I agree with TimMc, the lerk needs some buffs and changes, spores need to be 1st hive or ranged (which would increase lerk survival rate and encourage comms to research it as it is helpful...where as flyby runs are too risky (both P-res and T-res wise))
Up armour and HP slightly (balance lerk to survive against w2 a1 marines longer 1v1..but lose to w2 a2), make spores ranged, increase damage from spores.
I only play Marines because I like feeling like I'm contributing by helping the Comm directly. As an Alien, the only way to 'contribute' is really just to kill people or help others kill people while the Khamm does all the work. Which is dull.
Umbra at hive 2
Either buff spikes a ton, or primal scream for hive 3
What happened to the fix-all redesign process?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What happened to being sour? Oh wait, you stuck with it. Way to persevere.
I like to think of myself as <i>savoury</i>.