Grenades and friendly fire
Cee Colon Slash
Join Date: 2012-05-25 Member: 152581Members
Join Date: 2012-05-25 Member: 152581Members
Comments
Though that said I think JPs need looking at, once I get one I feel nearly invincible, it takes a very good fade to kill a very average (me) marine. Needs some form of 'nerf', either directly to fuel consumption, regen rate, cost. Or indirectly to not being able to carry heavy (flamer/GL) weapons with it or adding a more viable counter to it.
Though that said I think JPs need looking at, once I get one I feel nearly invincible, it takes a very good fade to kill a very average (me) marine. Needs some form of 'nerf', either directly to fuel consumption, regen rate, cost. Or indirectly to not being able to carry heavy (flamer/GL) weapons with it or adding a more viable counter to it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
JP's are fine. And it it only takes an avrage fade and some times a bad fade to jet a Jet packer with a GL and the GL shouldnt hurt the fade if he blinks away. A gl weilding marine is very easy to kill, even with skulks. Also if marines get the the hive and die it is very higly unlikly that the time it takes for them to get back there the GL's would still be there. Also to counter maines doing that, all you need is a few whips at each hive, therefor no solos.
Except you forget that phase gates are very cheap and easy to build, a jet packer might not directly win a fight but he sure can run away easily. Jet away, drop a nade or 2 on the floor and the fade has to pick between eating it or giving up on you. Most will give up on you. Additionally if you watch decent pubbers they really cant deal with jetpacks, 3 fade swings take a while to get in and this is assuming he doesnt have backup, extra aliens dont especially contribute to a JP fight, but extra JPs do.
Whips are incredibly ineffective currently, its not hard to snipe out the cysts near them with a pistol or bounce nades off the floor. Once your past the initial whip wall its typically the case that they wont hit you when your near the hive and you can easily solo it with a nanoshield/med pack spam from the commander.
In its current iteration the JP wins games, second JPs are up its very very hard to win as aliens. Every fade (the only lifeform that really stands a chance) death is a massive blow, every jet pack death is really not. 10 res and a W2/3 assault rifle still hurts. A skulk late game? Not so much, maybe you'll get a bite in before the AoE nade spam or shotties get you
EDIT: A GL marine should be easy to kil on his own, its a weapon that adds a massive force multiplier to fights, the damage it does to hives and their surroundings (eggs especially) is so strong that you need a trade off for it. It sure as hell isnt the price since 25 pres is not that much and with a jetpack it isnt the survivability.
Whips are incredibly ineffective currently, its not hard to snipe out the cysts near them with a pistol or bounce nades off the floor. Once your past the initial whip wall its typically the case that they wont hit you when your near the hive and you can easily solo it with a nanoshield/med pack spam from the commander.
In its current iteration the JP wins games, second JPs are up its very very hard to win as aliens. Every fade (the only lifeform that really stands a chance) death is a massive blow, every jet pack death is really not. 10 res and a W2/3 assault rifle still hurts. A skulk late game? Not so much, maybe you'll get a bite in before the AoE nade spam or shotties get you
EDIT: A GL marine should be easy to kil on his own, its a weapon that adds a massive force multiplier to fights, the damage it does to hives and their surroundings (eggs especially) is so strong that you need a trade off for it. It sure as hell isnt the price since 25 pres is not that much and with a jetpack it isnt the survivability.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If we follow your thinking, then everything is easy to upgrade and build. You talk about how easy it is for marines without mentioning what the alien team does to stop them, and when u talk about aliens u only say how easily marines can take them out without mentioning what aliens can do to counter act.
Building a phase gate needs more than one marine usually, you need to be in a secure place, aliens need to be unaware of it. THe research for the pg costs 15 and the 2 pgs cost 30 res together, thats a whole lot of res - meaning that if the pg plan fails, marines get a huge set back.
The trade off for the GL is that it has low ammo, slow on the reload and very ineffective up close (the gl used to be mounted on the lmg with the only trade off being the fact that u cant melee). About jps - yes, jps do give the marines a huge advantage BUT, to get jps u need to spend 110 res. And don't forget about all the narrow corridors where u can easily pick jetpackers off.
This game has been going through balance changes for the last year (correct me if im wrong), ur argument is very one sided and judging by the fact that u just joined the forums i'm gonna gamble and say that u haven't clocked in too many hours in NS2 yet. Give it time, before u go off questioning the balance of the entire game. Just saying, no hostility.
Yeah this thread reminded me of that but couldn't find it anywhere to link it here.
Sorry, that doesn't actually add anything to the debate. :P
Whips are incredibly ineffective currently, its not hard to snipe out the cysts near them with a pistol or bounce nades off the floor. Once your past the initial whip wall its typically the case that they wont hit you when your near the hive and you can easily solo it with a nanoshield/med pack spam from the commander.
In its current iteration the JP wins games, second JPs are up its very very hard to win as aliens. Every fade (the only lifeform that really stands a chance) death is a massive blow, every jet pack death is really not. 10 res and a W2/3 assault rifle still hurts. A skulk late game? Not so much, maybe you'll get a bite in before the AoE nade spam or shotties get you
EDIT: A GL marine should be easy to kil on his own, its a weapon that adds a massive force multiplier to fights, the damage it does to hives and their surroundings (eggs especially) is so strong that you need a trade off for it. It sure as hell isnt the price since 25 pres is not that much and with a jetpack it isnt the survivability.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1) A GL marine is VERY, Very to kill on his own. 9 times out of 10, with aliens having to get close to attack, the only way for a marine to kill the alien is to sacrifice him self by blowing both of them up (alien and marine).
2) You say JP are easy to get away. Any life form ecsept the geouge should have no problem keeping up with one and then when the fule runs out its pretty much it and they need to turn and fight as aliens will easy be able to blink, leap, fly or hedbutt them.
3) JP's Dont auto mean marines win. Yes marines have a hard time winning with out but this is to be axpected as at the moment its one of the best tech they have, BUT, I have played and seen many marine team lose after Jet packs. Jetpacks for the marine is Expensive later game tech, much like the Fade+bling and onos. Untill the Exo is in, marines need to have Jet packs as they are. Game play is VERY balanced, most balanced it has ever been so UWE must have it right at the moment.
4) 1 decent fade can take out 1 or 2 marines with jetpacks. Made easier with alien back up. Also 1 good marine with jetpack can, and i have seen it happed, kill 2 fades. Your' talking as if all games are the same and they all players play the same. Its a game anything can happen. So leave those sort of comments out, those that seem to give a comentery of how most games are. The fact is Most games are compleatyl diffrent to each other and comments like 'extra aliens dont especially contribute to a JP fight' are ridiculace because its a team game and I see aliens, of diffrent lifeforms, work together to take out at jet packer a lot of the time.
Covering friendlies by firing grenades at them seems fairly lame to me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually this is a really interesting thing to point out, perhaps marines shouldn't be able to cover their friends by firing grenades directly at their feet. Whips are pretty damn useless in their current form but maybe if on the off chance a whip actually did it's god damned job the whole marine attack force would suffer than people would think twice about blindly firing grenades. I say take it further and make it so grenades dont explode on contact with structures. This way whips can actually knock grenades back instead of the grenades just exploding right on the whips.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A note on "Friendly Fire": the phenomena of "friendly fire" (weapons damaging one's own teammates) has been circumvented in the 22nd century, by the use of nano-triggers and nano-weaponry. Currently the term "FriendlyFire" refers to this system. Shrapnel, bullets, and blast particles are split-second destabilized before striking any Frontiersmen, fragmenting harmlessly against their armor. In rare cases nano-gridlock has been known to interfere with this protection for the duration of a battle. Another strange gap in the FriendlyFire system: a fired weapon still injures the person who activated it. This is only a danger with grenades and mines … but is very important to note.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wanted to weigh everyone's points but this right here was my most predominant thought. Oh, the potential trollings and lulz!
I play a lot of Halo: Reach and the friendly fire makes baby jesus cry. I'll be playing SWAT, get bashed by a team mate, and have to live with the death sentence. Or much worse is playing Grifball, where you can't get kicked for team killing, there's always that jackass who just runs around gravhammering team mates. If it can be abused, it will be abused, if only for teh lulz.
I'm totally okay with it being an option for server operators, but I'm against anything more than self damage becoming part of the standard game.
And there are a lot more games without friendly fire that do much better.
I'm totally okay with it being an option for server operators, but I'm against anything more than self damage becoming part of the standard game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pretty much spot on. I totally agree.
Aliens should have the same effect for stray bites and swipes. Possibility for griefing? Absolutely. But the grenade spam without consequence is very punitive against aliens.
This would also reduce the viability of two grenade guys throwing grenades at each other to ward off skulks. Would also mean that a marine can't just sit ontop of another marine's mine to get a damage boost if an alien attacks.
Fits the fluff more sensibly and fixes some quirks in gameplay.
This would also reduce the viability of two grenade guys throwing grenades at each other to ward off skulks. Would also mean that a marine can't just sit ontop of another marine's mine to get a damage boost if an alien attacks.
Fits the fluff more sensibly and fixes some quirks in gameplay.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It doesn't "fix" anything. First of all there isnt anything broken. What would you do about gorges stacking bilebomb? The only thing this does is give aliens an unbelievable leg up, or "op them" if you will.
Bilebomb only damages armour and is a DoT, why dont we change nades to that? So they only damage armour and structures right? Right? Oh wait no, its totally different.
When the whips have been fixed, there won't be such an issue anymore. Friendly fire in NS2 is very counterproductive. Even with some players shooting with controlled bursts, they still hit marines sometimes. The majority just holds down the left mouse button until something dies. Introducing FF will completely destroy the idea of "teamplay" and will make teams completely obsolete and will encourage rambo-ing, ruining the core idea of NS.
Perhaps an in-between solution with the GL is that it doesn't damage marines (even the marine who shoots it) but it sends them flying. Depending on the proximity to the blast, the worst case would be sending a marine sprawling and then landing on the ground as if stomped; the best case is that they are just nudged a bit.
Perhaps an in-between solution with the GL is that it doesn't damage marines (even the marine who shoots it) but it sends them flying. Depending on the proximity to the blast, the worst case would be sending a marine sprawling and then landing on the ground as if stomped; the best case is that they are just nudged a bit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe increase the fuse if it isnt a direct hit (ie bounced before hits an alien or structure) so that even if you spam nades on your friend he's still gonna die?
Friendly fire is prevented by nanites somewhere recognizing the bullet/shrapnel is coming from/heading towards a friendly, and disassembles the matter before it impacts. However, there's some odd little bug that it doesn't prevent you from hurting yourself. :P