<!--quoteo(post=1957028:date=Aug 4 2012, 09:45 AM:name=kabab)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kabab @ Aug 4 2012, 09:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1957028"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If an alien kills your base power node and you have no welders researched game over regardless of how far ahead u are so your entire existence is based on 1 research item and 1 structure u have no control over...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
power packs. power packs. power packs.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There is still no way to let aliens move between hives quickly like in NS1 with the teleporting feature, the attempt to fix this problem with celerity was a massive fail this forever will have a major negative impact on alien gameplay..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
semi agree.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Aliens can become res locked if you manage to loose all your res nodes with less then 15 res its game over this wasn't the case in NS1 because of RFK and gorge building..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
not an issue. protect your res.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Power nodes powering buildings I find to be an extra level of management which isn't fun or interesting...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> k
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Gorge has nothing on his NS1 existence, he is only good at the start of the game and falls off hard. The limit of 3 hydra's really limits the ability for the gorge to lay down defence in spawn to stop ninja attacks and then push forward with his team...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> haven't tried bilebomb have you? the other night i singlehandedly ended an 8v8 as gorge wherein drill repair, observation, and refinery had about 25 turrets each in it, and waves of fades/oni died the instant they ran in.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Alien commander is is boring and tedious you feel like your strapped to a chair with a live grenade in your lap unlike the marine commander who's role actually feels like it belongs...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> no argument there. alien khamm is like marine comm on training wheels. there's no intellectual or gameplay draw to it. it's just there, because someone has to do it. i avoid it like the plague.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No relocation strategies and free base building for marines makes the gameplay feel stale.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> there's relocations, they're just much more of an all-in. don't pretend that relocations in ns1 didn't go to the same few spots on the map every time either, unless it was a desperation move. i would love for cc's to become untied to tech points though, and only tech structures get build on tech points.
i play ns2 roughly with the same frequency as i did with ns1. decreasing over time but never realy stopping. ns2 is a fun game to play, i like it. but i too could give you a long list of things ns1 did better and i would like to see them in ns2. but i wont go into that because ns2 is highly modable.(so there is no point in arguing > dont like it? > do it yourself.) and i will.
AurOn2COOKIES! FREEDOM, AND BISCUITS!AustraliaJoin Date: 2012-01-13Member: 140224Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Forum staff
edited August 2012
Not me, i dont like any part of the game currently I was satisfied like, 10 builds ago, but not anymore. raza and kabab both sum it up for the most part. Currently it feels like UWE is taking their game and trashing it, i mean, they have revamped EVERYTHING, whether it worked or not. and not for the better. I think that may be why ns1 was balanced by a community member, because community members play more, and see more. Maybe ns2 should be the same? Currently im seeing alot of people just stop playing, even after the biscuit crowd keeps the numbers up, all o us old ns2 vets seem to not play the game anymore, down here in aust. theres like 4 or 5 of us who play constantly instead of once a build to see if anything's actually improved., there used to be about 40.
Even if I said that NS2 is really bad compared to NS1, it doesn't mean that NS2 would be bad game. I play L4D2 competitive so I know that game doesn't have to be perfect in order to enjoy it. But this thread has proven for those who didn't knew that Fana in the only high level competitive NS1 player who plays NS2 (can't be sure about Americans but at least in Europe). So it's the top level competitive players who find NS2 most frustrated. Maybe UWE should think about that.
You competitive folk don't like the kill feeds? They made them just for you. The feeds ruin immersion for me, so I don't like seeing them on my screen. Oh well ;_; *sadface*
I've played NS1 since the NSTR and NS2 since the NS2TR, so I've played since the very beginning, was a competitive ns1 player for years, PT, made the 3.0 trailer, and generally one of those hardcore fans from day 0. I agree with player: It's time for tough talk. This forum is absolutely flooded with ridiculous fanboys (antacid), while the people who actually understand the game get smashed
Major flaws with NS2: - Alien Comm has to go. No fun, annoying, opposing asymmetry, and ruins gorges which worked perfectly in NS1 - Tech points need to go, as well as power nodes. They restrict freedom (no fun relocates) and generally don't serve any purpose besides being an extra layer of annoyance - movement is just bad mostly. not skill-based, no learning curve, slow - static defenses are bad. cut the whips and especially the hydras. and if the ridiculous free buildings are still in: Don't do that, it's blatantly obvious a bad idea on so many levels. Just make NS1 model: Aliens have Pres, marines Tres. Simple and beautiful - While I can understand that ARC's seemed to be a good idea in the first place, it's now obvious they don't work. The fun NS1 fights around TF's upgrading, holding the siege positions etc were a huge aspect that's now gone. - Chambers are too complicated. Why crag, shift etc? NS1's movement, sensory, defense were perfect names with clear functions. KISS! - Performance. If this stays even remotely as it is now, this game is unplayable for most people and a borderline audacity to sell without a big warning sign. Promises are made all the time, but the actual performance increases from the first versions are tiny. No one expected great AND fast graphics with such a small team, so face reality
good stuff: - infestation - belly slide - buying own gear works surprisingly well
So frankly NS2 does barely have any of the things that were fun in NS1, while adding almost nothing. Honestly this feels like Star Wars/George Lucas all over again. Got lucky with Ep4-6 / NS1, but absolutely crushing the successor. The amount of mindblowingly bad design decisions during the beta were astonishing, despite a lot of die hard fans giving invaluable feedback (fana etc). This could all be fixed by just cutting all the bad crap, and scale down the graphics to a level that would run fine, but there is no indication that the game is heading in any good direction at all. I'll stick around for 1.0, but sadly feel that this is in a very grim state.
And what's with alle the "NS1 took years to become good"? Even if that would be true, this isn't good old Half-Life 1 mod times anymore. This game has to be good now, or at the very least at release. It'll die a sudden death otherwise
I got a theory why the game turned out the way it did..
The dev's just don't play the game enough at any level to be good enough to understand why the game was good to begin with..
The play tester are just far to big a fanboys to give UWE proper harsh criticisms where its needed instead they just pander to their ego's as you can see by how strongly they defend design decisions in the forum even ones that are completely wrong...
<!--quoteo(post=1957332:date=Aug 4 2012, 04:00 PM:name=.ADHd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (.ADHd @ Aug 4 2012, 04:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1957332"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I personally like NS2 better in nearly every way, except for the obvious performance and balance issues. Once those are fixed NS2 is going to be a far superior game.
NS1 was a mod, and the start of an era. It will always be in the top 5 games of all time for me.
NS2 is much more smoothed out in terms of gameplay and has a much more clear sense of game progression and direction. It looks a hell of a lot better and has expanded since NS1 rather than only focusing on refining old stuff.
NS1 was way too open and thus making it exploitable and griefable... not only that, but it was extremely unintuitive. NS1 feels like a sandbox whereas NS2 feels like a streamlined, real game. NS1 was great for it's time, but it lacked in many ways. NS1 favors to spoiled brat elitists who don't like to share or be nice. NS2 is a lot more forgiving and patient... the community is 1000 times better as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your such a hypocrite, a few weeks ago i was on a server with you playing as comm, and you were flaming people left and right exactly like a spoiled brat elitist, it got so bad everyone RR'd and left you to play by yourself.
<!--quoteo(post=1957532:date=Aug 5 2012, 06:58 AM:name=kabab)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kabab @ Aug 5 2012, 06:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1957532"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I got a theory why the game turned out the way it did..
The dev's just don't play the game enough at any level to be good enough to understand why the game was good to begin with..
The play tester are just far to big a fanboys to give UWE proper harsh criticisms where its needed instead they just pander to their ego's as you can see by how strongly they defend design decisions in the forum even ones that are completely wrong...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
idk, the beta community in general is a playtester pool, and i'm sure the devs will tell you that we've been very harsh on them at times.
I still play ns1 because I'm very dissatisfied with ns2, and many other people are in the same position. The biggest reasons are performance (especially server/network), bad movement in a melee combat game, map/asset design (maps are one big room with a few walls, not sprawling corridors, and everything is the same color including aliens), the power grid system just giving more useless crap to hold e on or attack to make up for the map layout, and over complication/redesign of mechanics that were previously well refined.
It's not just disgruntled competitive players either, I'm seeing ns2 get a lot of hate from people that play/played ns1 casually. The fact of the matter is that ns1 had more people playing it daily than ns2 until this total biscuit hype (expect the numbers to decline after a week), and it is less than 2 months from release. With dislike from past hardcore fans, this game stands a strong chance of getting left in the dust by the average consumer once the next hot release rolls around if things don't get fixed fast.
It's also worth noting that most of the people I've talked to, regardless of whether they've played ns1 or just got ns2 because they were interested in it, feel the game isn't in a good position but don't care enough to post on the forums full of rabid fanboys about it. The levels of fanboyism were horrific a couple of years ago and they're still pretty bad today. The truth it that most realistic people that have a bit of an interest in ns2 but don't think it's heading in the right direction aren't going to give a damn about giving their input to a forum full of fanboys and the ones that do get met with a lot of hate and don't bother to return. These stupid forums get more activity than both games combined. That really says all you need to know about the type of biased feedback the devs have been reading for years.
Long time NS player, started with 1.04 and I'm pretty happy with the game as it is. Yes I'm sure we'll be seeing balance patches for years to come, maybe even complete reworks of abilities and so on, just like we did with NS1. But overall the skulks feel like skulks, lerks feel like lerks, fades feel like fades. I have some issues with the current gorge but even they've improved a lot the past few builds. Hell even the khamm has grown on me (hurhurhur.)
Not saying the game is perfect as it is, but a worthy successor to NS? Most definitely.
To be clear, I'm talking about gameplay here not performance.
Slightly off topic: I don't understand these complaints about 'rabid fanboys' when in my experience the majority of the more vitriolic posts tend to be from self-styled 'vets', usually saying NS2 sucks compared to NS1. It's the main reason honestly I haven't really frequented these forums. I guess it's a matter of perception? Or maybe the balance shifted recently?
After watching my older brother playing NS1 way back in the day, and years later I began playing. Not competitively as I was never good enough nor did I have anywhere near decent gaming rig (Unlike now)
I enjoyed NS1 mainly as marines but I played both sides, enjoying the siege maps and the types of gameplay each side offered. When I heard NS2 was in development and being released in Summer 2012 I just had to get into the BETA.
I've clocked up only a measly 12hours so far, playing as both sides (I do feel a slight.. OPness to Aliens more than in NS1) I find it quite easier for me to get more kills regardless of the side however. I frequently read the forums, topics covering Hit reg, people saying it is the main cause for Marines being underpowered. While I'm not saying that you're all wrong, my opinion on the matter is that for me at least it doesn't make any difference, unless I'm hit by a huge lag spike then my game is quite smooth and as far as I can see, all of my shots register.
I do get what other players are saying about NS2 in that it doesn't quite feel the same, maybe this is because NS1 was based on the Source engine? NS2 may be a standalone game but what people need to remember throughout is that while the engine may be.. unstable? Jittery? UWE are a small yet talented team who have managed to create a fantastic and enjoyable experience, I can't help but say that It does feel a lot easier for me to get into NS2 (Maybe it's just because it's BETA) than NS1. Anyway, sales for NS2 Pre-orders have risen and with more money comes more improvements.
I'm confident that NS2 will be just as if not more enjoyable for me than NS1, all we need now is a couple siege maps, and overhaul of the movement and balancing/performance increase and I shall be clocking more hours on my weekends.
(This post contains my opinions and is in no way representative of the forums as whole) Just thought I'd include a disclaimer, knowing how much I've been flamed on other forums!
SecurityJoin Date: 2005-01-07Member: 33133Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited August 2012
<i>Should</i> the performance problems be resolved, NS2 is going to be a good game. It might even become a great game, due to the modding possibilities.
Right now however, its nowhere <b>near</b> as fun as NS1 was. (Gameplay-wise.)
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1957532:date=Aug 5 2012, 06:58 AM:name=kabab)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kabab @ Aug 5 2012, 06:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1957532"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I got a theory why the game turned out the way it did..
The dev's just don't play the game enough at any level to be good enough to understand why the game was good to begin with..
The play tester are just far to big a fanboys to give UWE proper harsh criticisms where its needed instead they just pander to their ego's as you can see by how strongly they defend design decisions in the forum even ones that are completely wrong...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think this is the truest post in this thread, other than that last paragraph.
But there is no denying that had more of the devs played at a super high level there might be more loyalty to NS1. Most likely this would have resulted in a better NS2. Then again, if you only allowed people to work on the game who were NS1 pros, few or nobody including myself would be working on it who currently is, Tbqh.
The harshest truth of all, is that NS2 will not be as mature as NS1 upon release, but will instead take some time to mature. The good news is that there is a lot of willingness to see what happens, because everybody knows the devs have their hearts in the right place, even if some of their decisions try to reinvent the wheel unsuccessful, and unnecessarily.
i find that the #1 reason it's not as enjoyable is because frankly, the community isn't as good as it was. a close second is the performance, but i'm willing to wait. it is curious to me, however, that the devs are pushing so hard to release when games like minecraft have stayed in alpha/beta for years and never had a problem getting by, yet every single game that has ever been released in an unfinished/unpolished state has gotten absolutely demolished due to poor reviews. why? we told you it was too early for beta and it was, and we forgave you because it was do or die. but now the situation is different - you have the money to do a proper dev job, yet you're rushing the release. why?
<!--quoteo(post=1957531:date=Aug 5 2012, 10:50 AM:name=wey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wey @ Aug 5 2012, 10:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1957531"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've played NS1 since the NSTR and NS2 since the NS2TR, so I've played since the very beginning, was a competitive ns1 player for years, PT, made the 3.0 trailer, and generally one of those hardcore fans from day 0. I agree with player: It's time for tough talk. This forum is absolutely flooded with ridiculous fanboys (antacid), while the people who actually understand the game get smashed
Major flaws with NS2: - Alien Comm has to go. No fun, annoying, opposing asymmetry, and ruins gorges which worked perfectly in NS1 - Tech points need to go, as well as power nodes. They restrict freedom (no fun relocates) and generally don't serve any purpose besides being an extra layer of annoyance - movement is just bad mostly. not skill-based, no learning curve, slow - static defenses are bad. cut the whips and especially the hydras. and if the ridiculous free buildings are still in: Don't do that, it's blatantly obvious a bad idea on so many levels. Just make NS1 model: Aliens have Pres, marines Tres. Simple and beautiful - While I can understand that ARC's seemed to be a good idea in the first place, it's now obvious they don't work. The fun NS1 fights around TF's upgrading, holding the siege positions etc were a huge aspect that's now gone. - Chambers are too complicated. Why crag, shift etc? NS1's movement, sensory, defense were perfect names with clear functions. KISS! - Performance. If this stays even remotely as it is now, this game is unplayable for most people and a borderline audacity to sell without a big warning sign. Promises are made all the time, but the actual performance increases from the first versions are tiny. No one expected great AND fast graphics with such a small team, so face reality
good stuff: - infestation - belly slide - buying own gear works surprisingly well
So frankly NS2 does barely have any of the things that were fun in NS1, while adding almost nothing. Honestly this feels like Star Wars/George Lucas all over again. Got lucky with Ep4-6 / NS1, but absolutely crushing the successor. The amount of mindblowingly bad design decisions during the beta were astonishing, despite a lot of die hard fans giving invaluable feedback (fana etc). This could all be fixed by just cutting all the bad crap, and scale down the graphics to a level that would run fine, but there is no indication that the game is heading in any good direction at all. I'll stick around for 1.0, but sadly feel that this is in a very grim state.
And what's with alle the "NS1 took years to become good"? Even if that would be true, this isn't good old Half-Life 1 mod times anymore. This game has to be good now, or at the very least at release. It'll die a sudden death otherwise<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pretty much sums it up for me.
@OP I think it is safe to assume the vast majority of preorders before Alpha 1 was released were from NS1 players, so if you take a look at the active player count which was pretty low, I think you have your answer.
SecurityJoin Date: 2005-01-07Member: 33133Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1957202:date=Aug 4 2012, 09:22 PM:name=swalk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (swalk @ Aug 4 2012, 09:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1957202"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Then you might as well remove the alien commander completely.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1957617:date=Aug 5 2012, 02:21 PM:name=Yuuki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yuuki @ Aug 5 2012, 02:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1957617"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe a more interesting view on the question:
How would have you done NS2 ? That would have been your plan in term of gameplay, graphics, etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would <b>not</b> have made it on a custom engine so the focus could be spent on the game itself. If NS2 was not a FPS my opinion would change but the requirements for a FPS are pretty steep and have proved problematic.
Start with what you already have, years of development. Alpha 1 would have been essentially NS1 and address the issues with that before you think about adding in new features. It still bothers me that they essentially started from scratch in so many ways and wasted so much time discarding years of excellent work.
Experiment with new features, I actually like some of the changes NS2 offers such as players being able to buy their own equipment. I dislike the power system, it hinders player choice and adds nothing to game play as far as I'm concerned. If anything it seems like a gimmick to show off the dynamic lighting which btw plenty of other engines are fully capable of doing.
I'd cut the alien commander, it has not proven itself from the start and several alien structures I feel were added simply to try and give more things for the alien commander to do (a poor reason to add further complexity to an already complex game). The gorge suffers the most from this, and has become only useful in limited instances. One of the goals as I understood it was to make NS2 more accessible, and all the new structures have only added new layers of complexity, not taken any away.
Bring back the turret factory and sieges, arcs have not worked out as designed and simply are not as fun as the NS1 game play of taking down hives.
In summary, I would have cut new features that were not working out much sooner instead of spending time trying to balance something that was not panning out. If you have something working well that players enjoy and is fun, there really isn't a reason to change it unless you can make it better. Lot's of things in NS2 have changed from their NS1 designs and many not for the better. NS2 needs to trim the fat.
SecurityJoin Date: 2005-01-07Member: 33133Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1957531:date=Aug 5 2012, 12:50 PM:name=wey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wey @ Aug 5 2012, 12:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1957531"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've played NS1 since the NSTR and NS2 since the NS2TR, so I've played since the very beginning, was a competitive ns1 player for years, PT, made the 3.0 trailer, and generally one of those hardcore fans from day 0. I agree with player: It's time for tough talk. This forum is absolutely flooded with ridiculous fanboys (antacid), while the people who actually understand the game get smashed
Major flaws with NS2: - Alien Comm has to go. No fun, annoying, opposing asymmetry, and ruins gorges which worked perfectly in NS1 - Tech points need to go, as well as power nodes. They restrict freedom (no fun relocates) and generally don't serve any purpose besides being an extra layer of annoyance - movement is just bad mostly. not skill-based, no learning curve, slow - static defenses are bad. cut the whips and especially the hydras. and if the ridiculous free buildings are still in: Don't do that, it's blatantly obvious a bad idea on so many levels. Just make NS1 model: Aliens have Pres, marines Tres. Simple and beautiful - While I can understand that ARC's seemed to be a good idea in the first place, it's now obvious they don't work. The fun NS1 fights around TF's upgrading, holding the siege positions etc were a huge aspect that's now gone. - Chambers are too complicated. Why crag, shift etc? NS1's movement, sensory, defense were perfect names with clear functions. KISS! - Performance. If this stays even remotely as it is now, this game is unplayable for most people and a borderline audacity to sell without a big warning sign. Promises are made all the time, but the actual performance increases from the first versions are tiny. No one expected great AND fast graphics with such a small team, so face reality
good stuff: - infestation - belly slide - buying own gear works surprisingly well
So frankly NS2 does barely have any of the things that were fun in NS1, while adding almost nothing. Honestly this feels like Star Wars/George Lucas all over again. Got lucky with Ep4-6 / NS1, but absolutely crushing the successor. The amount of mindblowingly bad design decisions during the beta were astonishing, despite a lot of die hard fans giving invaluable feedback (fana etc). This could all be fixed by just cutting all the bad crap, and scale down the graphics to a level that would run fine, but there is no indication that the game is heading in any good direction at all. I'll stick around for 1.0, but sadly feel that this is in a very grim state.
And what's with alle the "NS1 took years to become good"? Even if that would be true, this isn't good old Half-Life 1 mod times anymore. This game has to be good now, or at the very least at release. It'll die a sudden death otherwise<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo(post=1957532:date=Aug 5 2012, 12:58 PM:name=kabab)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kabab @ Aug 5 2012, 12:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1957532"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I got a theory why the game turned out the way it did..
The dev's just don't play the game enough at any level to be good enough to understand why the game was good to begin with..
The play tester are just far to big a fanboys to give UWE proper harsh criticisms where its needed instead they just pander to their ego's as you can see by how strongly they defend design decisions in the forum even ones that are completely wrong...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo(post=1957565:date=Aug 5 2012, 02:28 PM:name=Pyromaniac)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pyromaniac @ Aug 5 2012, 02:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1957565"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I still play ns1 because I'm very dissatisfied with ns2, and many other people are in the same position. The biggest reasons are performance (especially server/network), bad movement in a melee combat game, map/asset design (maps are one big room with a few walls, not sprawling corridors, and everything is the same color including aliens), the power grid system just giving more useless crap to hold e on or attack to make up for the map layout, and over complication/redesign of mechanics that were previously well refined.
It's not just disgruntled competitive players either, I'm seeing ns2 get a lot of hate from people that play/played ns1 casually. The fact of the matter is that ns1 had more people playing it daily than ns2 until this total biscuit hype (expect the numbers to decline after a week), and it is less than 2 months from release. With dislike from past hardcore fans, this game stands a strong chance of getting left in the dust by the average consumer once the next hot release rolls around if things don't get fixed fast.
It's also worth noting that most of the people I've talked to, regardless of whether they've played ns1 or just got ns2 because they were interested in it, feel the game isn't in a good position but don't care enough to post on the forums full of rabid fanboys about it. The levels of fanboyism were horrific a couple of years ago and they're still pretty bad today. The truth it that most realistic people that have a bit of an interest in ns2 but don't think it's heading in the right direction aren't going to give a damn about giving their input to a forum full of fanboys and the ones that do get met with a lot of hate and don't bother to return. These stupid forums get more activity than both games combined. That really says all you need to know about the type of biased feedback the devs have been reading for years.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited August 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1957531:date=Aug 5 2012, 11:50 AM:name=wey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wey @ Aug 5 2012, 11:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1957531"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The amount of mindblowingly bad design decisions during the beta were astonishing, despite a lot of die hard fans giving invaluable feedback (fana etc).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not disagreeing with your post, but it isn't hard to understand why a lot of good forum feedback gets dismissed. Frankly, 95% of everything suggested on here is a load of bull######. Having to wade through all that and pick out the gems is a herculean task, not to mention that the devs themselves have ideas of how the game works/should work that often clash with the worthwhile posts.
At this point, I hope UWE just trucks on with whatever it is they're doing, and completely ignore the forums. Use the PTs and potentially ask a few select players for their opinions, and then we'll just have to see how it turns out in the end.
In reply to the OP: No, I don't know any NS1 players who are happy with NS2, as it currently is.
Heh, it's hard not to join the anti-khammander crowd. Khammanding is boring, Gorging is boring, obvious solution? Combine them. :)
In reply to OP: Do you see many other RTS/FPS around? Do you see many other smart FPS's around? No? I guess I'll stick with NS2, then. :G (NS1? Dear God no, I'm not one for top graphics, but still... BLOCKMEN. THEY HAUNT ME.)
I'm really disappointed the devs just scrapped combat mode. It was a lot of fun, and its popularity amongst casual players supports my point. Don't get me wrong, I love vanilla NS, but sometimes I just don't feel like fourty minutes of coordination, teamplay and concentration, but just like some beating the hell out of eachother casually and a little e-peen comparison amongst teammates - especially after getting steamrolled in vanilla too many times due to horrible lack of teamplay on pubs.
I've never been a comp player. I'm just a casual and I'll always be one. I probably represent a significant part of the community and an equally significant source of revenue for the developers when I say: Don't make this a die-hard competitive e-sports title. Give us the option to chose between the light-hearted fun-/training-mode and the complex "real deal". I equally enjoyed them, and stripping half of that feels like stripping half my fun.
Just responding "well, the game is highly moddable, make your own combat mode" doesn't satisfy me at all. Community created mods which you have to a) know and b) download from an external website tend disappear into oblivion due to notorious lack of players.
<!--quoteo(post=1957634:date=Aug 5 2012, 07:01 AM:name=Sebenza)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sebenza @ Aug 5 2012, 07:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1957634"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm really disappointed the devs just scrapped combat mode. It was a lot of fun, and its popularity amongst casual players supports my point. Don't get me wrong, I love vanilla NS, but sometimes I just don't feel like fourty minutes of coordination, teamplay and concentration, but just like some beating the hell out of eachother casually and a little e-peen comparison amongst teammates - especially after getting steamrolled in vanilla too many times due to horrible lack of teamplay on pubs.
I've never been a comp player. I'm just a casual and I'll always be one. I probably represent a significant part of the community and an equally significant source of revenue for the developers when I say: Don't make this a die-hard competitive e-sports title. Give us the option to chose between the light-hearted fun-/training-mode and the complex "real deal". I equally enjoyed them, and stripping half of that feels like stripping half my fun.
Just responding "well, the game is highly moddable, make your own combat mode" doesn't satisfy me at all. Community created mods which you have to a) know and b) download from an external website tend disappear into oblivion due to notorious lack of players.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
there is already a combat mod <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=119151" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=119151</a> :) its very much its alpha stages though
<!--quoteo(post=1957617:date=Aug 5 2012, 03:21 PM:name=Yuuki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yuuki @ Aug 5 2012, 03:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1957617"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How would have you done NS2 ? That would have been your plan in term of gameplay, graphics, etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's really hard to make any solid arguments on how things should go when you don't know the full story behind the decisions UWE made, but...
I'd definitely would've liked to see much more focus on functional core gameplay and strong basic mechanics. We had amazing dynamic lighting effects and all that 3 years ago, but the gameplay basics, netcode and all that much, much later. While the graphics and atmosphere are cool and stuff, you can't really compete with the AAA titles with such small team. It's the gameplay which makes or breaks an indie game and frankly that's where I have most doubts with NS2.
In general I prefer the way how NS1 is built around strong mechanics and then the abilities and various features serve the basic mechanics. For example in NS1 the movement comes from the way the engine handles the player velocity and acceleration. The abilities are then used for creating alternative ways to tap into and negociate with the engine based mechanics. Meanwhile NS2 has most of the movement stuff build right into features and things often stay pretty discrete and lack the natural flow that NS1 movement had.
The same theme seems to repeat everywhere in the game. In NS1 there were first strong basic mechanics and then features built around these mechanics. NS2 on the other hand seems a lot more like a bunch of features that are afterwards connected through mechanics that try to fit all the already existing features into one set of gameplay. As a result, I think NS1 has much smoother interaction between these features even if the features themselves aren't as spectacular and dramatic as in NS2. In NS1 the gameplay feels like all the little details dancing with each other in constant flowing motion. On its best moments it's a thing of beauty to watch the game unfold as all the RTS and FPS layers blend together seamlessly.
Comments
power packs. power packs. power packs.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There is still no way to let aliens move between hives quickly like in NS1 with the teleporting feature, the attempt to fix this problem with celerity was a massive fail this forever will have a major negative impact on alien gameplay..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
semi agree.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Aliens can become res locked if you manage to loose all your res nodes with less then 15 res its game over this wasn't the case in NS1 because of RFK and gorge building..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
not an issue. protect your res.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Power nodes powering buildings I find to be an extra level of management which isn't fun or interesting...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
k
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Gorge has nothing on his NS1 existence, he is only good at the start of the game and falls off hard. The limit of 3 hydra's really limits the ability for the gorge to lay down defence in spawn to stop ninja attacks and then push forward with his team...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
haven't tried bilebomb have you? the other night i singlehandedly ended an 8v8 as gorge wherein drill repair, observation, and refinery had about 25 turrets each in it, and waves of fades/oni died the instant they ran in.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Alien commander is is boring and tedious you feel like your strapped to a chair with a live grenade in your lap unlike the marine commander who's role actually feels like it belongs...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
no argument there. alien khamm is like marine comm on training wheels. there's no intellectual or gameplay draw to it. it's just there, because someone has to do it. i avoid it like the plague.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No relocation strategies and free base building for marines makes the gameplay feel stale.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
there's relocations, they're just much more of an all-in. don't pretend that relocations in ns1 didn't go to the same few spots on the map every time either, unless it was a desperation move. i would love for cc's to become untied to tech points though, and only tech structures get build on tech points.
ns2 is a fun game to play, i like it. but i too could give you a long list of things ns1 did better and i would like to see them in ns2. but i wont go into that because ns2 is highly modable.(so there is no point in arguing > dont like it? > do it yourself.)
and i will.
I was satisfied like, 10 builds ago, but not anymore.
raza and kabab both sum it up for the most part.
Currently it feels like UWE is taking their game and trashing it, i mean, they have revamped EVERYTHING, whether it worked or not. and not for the better. I think that may be why ns1 was balanced by a community member, because community members play more, and see more. Maybe ns2 should be the same? Currently im seeing alot of people just stop playing, even after the biscuit crowd keeps the numbers up, all o us old ns2 vets seem to not play the game anymore, down here in aust. theres like 4 or 5 of us who play constantly instead of once a build to see if anything's actually improved., there used to be about 40.
I agree with this so much, after finally playing again since ns 3.0 it felt so weird not having that option
Major flaws with NS2:
- Alien Comm has to go. No fun, annoying, opposing asymmetry, and ruins gorges which worked perfectly in NS1
- Tech points need to go, as well as power nodes. They restrict freedom (no fun relocates) and generally don't serve any purpose besides being an extra layer of annoyance
- movement is just bad mostly. not skill-based, no learning curve, slow
- static defenses are bad. cut the whips and especially the hydras. and if the ridiculous free buildings are still in: Don't do that, it's blatantly obvious a bad idea on so many levels. Just make NS1 model: Aliens have Pres, marines Tres. Simple and beautiful
- While I can understand that ARC's seemed to be a good idea in the first place, it's now obvious they don't work. The fun NS1 fights around TF's upgrading, holding the siege positions etc were a huge aspect that's now gone.
- Chambers are too complicated. Why crag, shift etc? NS1's movement, sensory, defense were perfect names with clear functions. KISS!
- Performance. If this stays even remotely as it is now, this game is unplayable for most people and a borderline audacity to sell without a big warning sign. Promises are made all the time, but the actual performance increases from the first versions are tiny. No one expected great AND fast graphics with such a small team, so face reality
good stuff:
- infestation
- belly slide
- buying own gear works surprisingly well
So frankly NS2 does barely have any of the things that were fun in NS1, while adding almost nothing. Honestly this feels like Star Wars/George Lucas all over again. Got lucky with Ep4-6 / NS1, but absolutely crushing the successor.
The amount of mindblowingly bad design decisions during the beta were astonishing, despite a lot of die hard fans giving invaluable feedback (fana etc). This could all be fixed by just cutting all the bad crap, and scale down the graphics to a level that would run fine, but there is no indication that the game is heading in any good direction at all. I'll stick around for 1.0, but sadly feel that this is in a very grim state.
And what's with alle the "NS1 took years to become good"? Even if that would be true, this isn't good old Half-Life 1 mod times anymore. This game has to be good now, or at the very least at release. It'll die a sudden death otherwise
The dev's just don't play the game enough at any level to be good enough to understand why the game was good to begin with..
The play tester are just far to big a fanboys to give UWE proper harsh criticisms where its needed instead they just pander to their ego's as you can see by how strongly they defend design decisions in the forum even ones that are completely wrong...
NS1 was a mod, and the start of an era. It will always be in the top 5 games of all time for me.
NS2 is much more smoothed out in terms of gameplay and has a much more clear sense of game progression and direction. It looks a hell of a lot better and has expanded since NS1 rather than only focusing on refining old stuff.
NS1 was way too open and thus making it exploitable and griefable... not only that, but it was extremely unintuitive. NS1 feels like a sandbox whereas NS2 feels like a streamlined, real game. NS1 was great for it's time, but it lacked in many ways. NS1 favors to spoiled brat elitists who don't like to share or be nice. NS2 is a lot more forgiving and patient... the community is 1000 times better as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your such a hypocrite, a few weeks ago i was on a server with you playing as comm, and you were flaming people left and right exactly like a spoiled brat elitist, it got so bad everyone RR'd and left you to play by yourself.
The dev's just don't play the game enough at any level to be good enough to understand why the game was good to begin with..
The play tester are just far to big a fanboys to give UWE proper harsh criticisms where its needed instead they just pander to their ego's as you can see by how strongly they defend design decisions in the forum even ones that are completely wrong...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
idk, the beta community in general is a playtester pool, and i'm sure the devs will tell you that we've been very harsh on them at times.
It's not just disgruntled competitive players either, I'm seeing ns2 get a lot of hate from people that play/played ns1 casually. The fact of the matter is that ns1 had more people playing it daily than ns2 until this total biscuit hype (expect the numbers to decline after a week), and it is less than 2 months from release. With dislike from past hardcore fans, this game stands a strong chance of getting left in the dust by the average consumer once the next hot release rolls around if things don't get fixed fast.
It's also worth noting that most of the people I've talked to, regardless of whether they've played ns1 or just got ns2 because they were interested in it, feel the game isn't in a good position but don't care enough to post on the forums full of rabid fanboys about it. The levels of fanboyism were horrific a couple of years ago and they're still pretty bad today. The truth it that most realistic people that have a bit of an interest in ns2 but don't think it's heading in the right direction aren't going to give a damn about giving their input to a forum full of fanboys and the ones that do get met with a lot of hate and don't bother to return. These stupid forums get more activity than both games combined. That really says all you need to know about the type of biased feedback the devs have been reading for years.
Not saying the game is perfect as it is, but a worthy successor to NS? Most definitely.
To be clear, I'm talking about gameplay here not performance.
Slightly off topic: I don't understand these complaints about 'rabid fanboys' when in my experience the majority of the more vitriolic posts tend to be from self-styled 'vets', usually saying NS2 sucks compared to NS1. It's the main reason honestly I haven't really frequented these forums. I guess it's a matter of perception? Or maybe the balance shifted recently?
I enjoyed NS1 mainly as marines but I played both sides, enjoying the siege maps and the types of gameplay each side offered. When I heard NS2 was in development and being released in Summer 2012 I just had to get into the BETA.
I've clocked up only a measly 12hours so far, playing as both sides (I do feel a slight.. OPness to Aliens more than in NS1) I find it quite easier for me to get more kills regardless of the side however. I frequently read the forums, topics covering Hit reg, people saying it is the main cause for Marines being underpowered. While I'm not saying that you're all wrong, my opinion on the matter is that for me at least it doesn't make any difference, unless I'm hit by a huge lag spike then my game is quite smooth and as far as I can see, all of my shots register.
I do get what other players are saying about NS2 in that it doesn't quite feel the same, maybe this is because NS1 was based on the Source engine? NS2 may be a standalone game but what people need to remember throughout is that while the engine may be.. unstable? Jittery? UWE are a small yet talented team who have managed to create a fantastic and enjoyable experience, I can't help but say that It does feel a lot easier for me to get into NS2 (Maybe it's just because it's BETA) than NS1. Anyway, sales for NS2 Pre-orders have risen and with more money comes more improvements.
I'm confident that NS2 will be just as if not more enjoyable for me than NS1, all we need now is a couple siege maps, and overhaul of the movement and balancing/performance increase and I shall be clocking more hours on my weekends.
(This post contains my opinions and is in no way representative of the forums as whole) Just thought I'd include a disclaimer, knowing how much I've been flamed on other forums!
-TheTailsEffect
It might even become a great game, due to the modding possibilities.
Right now however, its nowhere <b>near</b> as fun as NS1 was. (Gameplay-wise.)
The dev's just don't play the game enough at any level to be good enough to understand why the game was good to begin with..
The play tester are just far to big a fanboys to give UWE proper harsh criticisms where its needed instead they just pander to their ego's as you can see by how strongly they defend design decisions in the forum even ones that are completely wrong...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think this is the truest post in this thread, other than that last paragraph.
But there is no denying that had more of the devs played at a super high level there might be more loyalty to NS1. Most likely this would have resulted in a better NS2. Then again, if you only allowed people to work on the game who were NS1 pros, few or nobody including myself would be working on it who currently is, Tbqh.
The harshest truth of all, is that NS2 will not be as mature as NS1 upon release, but will instead take some time to mature. The good news is that there is a lot of willingness to see what happens, because everybody knows the devs have their hearts in the right place, even if some of their decisions try to reinvent the wheel unsuccessful, and unnecessarily.
theres hardly any new content from NS1
most of the new features are poorly implemented
not to mention the horrid performance and movement as mentioned by so many others
i kinda expected more from a fully fledged game compared to a mod especially considering how long it took to develop
Major flaws with NS2:
- Alien Comm has to go. No fun, annoying, opposing asymmetry, and ruins gorges which worked perfectly in NS1
- Tech points need to go, as well as power nodes. They restrict freedom (no fun relocates) and generally don't serve any purpose besides being an extra layer of annoyance
- movement is just bad mostly. not skill-based, no learning curve, slow
- static defenses are bad. cut the whips and especially the hydras. and if the ridiculous free buildings are still in: Don't do that, it's blatantly obvious a bad idea on so many levels. Just make NS1 model: Aliens have Pres, marines Tres. Simple and beautiful
- While I can understand that ARC's seemed to be a good idea in the first place, it's now obvious they don't work. The fun NS1 fights around TF's upgrading, holding the siege positions etc were a huge aspect that's now gone.
- Chambers are too complicated. Why crag, shift etc? NS1's movement, sensory, defense were perfect names with clear functions. KISS!
- Performance. If this stays even remotely as it is now, this game is unplayable for most people and a borderline audacity to sell without a big warning sign. Promises are made all the time, but the actual performance increases from the first versions are tiny. No one expected great AND fast graphics with such a small team, so face reality
good stuff:
- infestation
- belly slide
- buying own gear works surprisingly well
So frankly NS2 does barely have any of the things that were fun in NS1, while adding almost nothing. Honestly this feels like Star Wars/George Lucas all over again. Got lucky with Ep4-6 / NS1, but absolutely crushing the successor.
The amount of mindblowingly bad design decisions during the beta were astonishing, despite a lot of die hard fans giving invaluable feedback (fana etc). This could all be fixed by just cutting all the bad crap, and scale down the graphics to a level that would run fine, but there is no indication that the game is heading in any good direction at all. I'll stick around for 1.0, but sadly feel that this is in a very grim state.
And what's with alle the "NS1 took years to become good"? Even if that would be true, this isn't good old Half-Life 1 mod times anymore. This game has to be good now, or at the very least at release. It'll die a sudden death otherwise<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pretty much sums it up for me.
@OP I think it is safe to assume the vast majority of preorders before Alpha 1 was released were from NS1 players, so if you take a look at the active player count which was pretty low, I think you have your answer.
How would have you done NS2 ? That would have been your plan in term of gameplay, graphics, etc.
Yes please. All power to the Gorges!
I honestly feel like this game is at a cross roads they have a chance to save it now but they have to listen to us...
How would have you done NS2 ? That would have been your plan in term of gameplay, graphics, etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would <b>not</b> have made it on a custom engine so the focus could be spent on the game itself. If NS2 was not a FPS my opinion would change but the requirements for a FPS are pretty steep and have proved problematic.
Start with what you already have, years of development. Alpha 1 would have been essentially NS1 and address the issues with that before you think about adding in new features. It still bothers me that they essentially started from scratch in so many ways and wasted so much time discarding years of excellent work.
Experiment with new features, I actually like some of the changes NS2 offers such as players being able to buy their own equipment. I dislike the power system, it hinders player choice and adds nothing to game play as far as I'm concerned. If anything it seems like a gimmick to show off the dynamic lighting which btw plenty of other engines are fully capable of doing.
I'd cut the alien commander, it has not proven itself from the start and several alien structures I feel were added simply to try and give more things for the alien commander to do (a poor reason to add further complexity to an already complex game). The gorge suffers the most from this, and has become only useful in limited instances. One of the goals as I understood it was to make NS2 more accessible, and all the new structures have only added new layers of complexity, not taken any away.
Bring back the turret factory and sieges, arcs have not worked out as designed and simply are not as fun as the NS1 game play of taking down hives.
In summary, I would have cut new features that were not working out much sooner instead of spending time trying to balance something that was not panning out. If you have something working well that players enjoy and is fun, there really isn't a reason to change it unless you can make it better. Lot's of things in NS2 have changed from their NS1 designs and many not for the better. NS2 needs to trim the fat.
Major flaws with NS2:
- Alien Comm has to go. No fun, annoying, opposing asymmetry, and ruins gorges which worked perfectly in NS1
- Tech points need to go, as well as power nodes. They restrict freedom (no fun relocates) and generally don't serve any purpose besides being an extra layer of annoyance
- movement is just bad mostly. not skill-based, no learning curve, slow
- static defenses are bad. cut the whips and especially the hydras. and if the ridiculous free buildings are still in: Don't do that, it's blatantly obvious a bad idea on so many levels. Just make NS1 model: Aliens have Pres, marines Tres. Simple and beautiful
- While I can understand that ARC's seemed to be a good idea in the first place, it's now obvious they don't work. The fun NS1 fights around TF's upgrading, holding the siege positions etc were a huge aspect that's now gone.
- Chambers are too complicated. Why crag, shift etc? NS1's movement, sensory, defense were perfect names with clear functions. KISS!
- Performance. If this stays even remotely as it is now, this game is unplayable for most people and a borderline audacity to sell without a big warning sign. Promises are made all the time, but the actual performance increases from the first versions are tiny. No one expected great AND fast graphics with such a small team, so face reality
good stuff:
- infestation
- belly slide
- buying own gear works surprisingly well
So frankly NS2 does barely have any of the things that were fun in NS1, while adding almost nothing. Honestly this feels like Star Wars/George Lucas all over again. Got lucky with Ep4-6 / NS1, but absolutely crushing the successor.
The amount of mindblowingly bad design decisions during the beta were astonishing, despite a lot of die hard fans giving invaluable feedback (fana etc). This could all be fixed by just cutting all the bad crap, and scale down the graphics to a level that would run fine, but there is no indication that the game is heading in any good direction at all. I'll stick around for 1.0, but sadly feel that this is in a very grim state.
And what's with alle the "NS1 took years to become good"? Even if that would be true, this isn't good old Half-Life 1 mod times anymore. This game has to be good now, or at the very least at release. It'll die a sudden death otherwise<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1957532:date=Aug 5 2012, 12:58 PM:name=kabab)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kabab @ Aug 5 2012, 12:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1957532"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I got a theory why the game turned out the way it did..
The dev's just don't play the game enough at any level to be good enough to understand why the game was good to begin with..
The play tester are just far to big a fanboys to give UWE proper harsh criticisms where its needed instead they just pander to their ego's as you can see by how strongly they defend design decisions in the forum even ones that are completely wrong...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1957565:date=Aug 5 2012, 02:28 PM:name=Pyromaniac)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pyromaniac @ Aug 5 2012, 02:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1957565"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I still play ns1 because I'm very dissatisfied with ns2, and many other people are in the same position. The biggest reasons are performance (especially server/network), bad movement in a melee combat game, map/asset design (maps are one big room with a few walls, not sprawling corridors, and everything is the same color including aliens), the power grid system just giving more useless crap to hold e on or attack to make up for the map layout, and over complication/redesign of mechanics that were previously well refined.
It's not just disgruntled competitive players either, I'm seeing ns2 get a lot of hate from people that play/played ns1 casually. The fact of the matter is that ns1 had more people playing it daily than ns2 until this total biscuit hype (expect the numbers to decline after a week), and it is less than 2 months from release. With dislike from past hardcore fans, this game stands a strong chance of getting left in the dust by the average consumer once the next hot release rolls around if things don't get fixed fast.
It's also worth noting that most of the people I've talked to, regardless of whether they've played ns1 or just got ns2 because they were interested in it, feel the game isn't in a good position but don't care enough to post on the forums full of rabid fanboys about it. The levels of fanboyism were horrific a couple of years ago and they're still pretty bad today. The truth it that most realistic people that have a bit of an interest in ns2 but don't think it's heading in the right direction aren't going to give a damn about giving their input to a forum full of fanboys and the ones that do get met with a lot of hate and don't bother to return. These stupid forums get more activity than both games combined. That really says all you need to know about the type of biased feedback the devs have been reading for years.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So much truth in this thread! +1 <3
Not disagreeing with your post, but it isn't hard to understand why a lot of good forum feedback gets dismissed. Frankly, 95% of everything suggested on here is a load of bull######. Having to wade through all that and pick out the gems is a herculean task, not to mention that the devs themselves have ideas of how the game works/should work that often clash with the worthwhile posts.
At this point, I hope UWE just trucks on with whatever it is they're doing, and completely ignore the forums. Use the PTs and potentially ask a few select players for their opinions, and then we'll just have to see how it turns out in the end.
In reply to the OP: No, I don't know any NS1 players who are happy with NS2, as it currently is.
In reply to OP: Do you see many other RTS/FPS around? Do you see many other smart FPS's around? No? I guess I'll stick with NS2, then. :G (NS1? Dear God no, I'm not one for top graphics, but still... BLOCKMEN. THEY HAUNT ME.)
Don't get me wrong, I love vanilla NS, but sometimes I just don't feel like fourty minutes of coordination, teamplay and concentration, but just like some beating the hell out of eachother casually and a little e-peen comparison amongst teammates - especially after getting steamrolled in vanilla too many times due to horrible lack of teamplay on pubs.
I've never been a comp player. I'm just a casual and I'll always be one. I probably represent a significant part of the community and an equally significant source of revenue for the developers when I say:
Don't make this a die-hard competitive e-sports title. Give us the option to chose between the light-hearted fun-/training-mode and the complex "real deal". I equally enjoyed them, and stripping half of that feels like stripping half my fun.
Just responding "well, the game is highly moddable, make your own combat mode" doesn't satisfy me at all. Community created mods which you have to a) know and b) download from an external website tend disappear into oblivion due to notorious lack of players.
Don't get me wrong, I love vanilla NS, but sometimes I just don't feel like fourty minutes of coordination, teamplay and concentration, but just like some beating the hell out of eachother casually and a little e-peen comparison amongst teammates - especially after getting steamrolled in vanilla too many times due to horrible lack of teamplay on pubs.
I've never been a comp player. I'm just a casual and I'll always be one. I probably represent a significant part of the community and an equally significant source of revenue for the developers when I say:
Don't make this a die-hard competitive e-sports title. Give us the option to chose between the light-hearted fun-/training-mode and the complex "real deal". I equally enjoyed them, and stripping half of that feels like stripping half my fun.
Just responding "well, the game is highly moddable, make your own combat mode" doesn't satisfy me at all. Community created mods which you have to a) know and b) download from an external website tend disappear into oblivion due to notorious lack of players.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
there is already a combat mod <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=119151" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=119151</a> :) its very much its alpha stages though
It's really hard to make any solid arguments on how things should go when you don't know the full story behind the decisions UWE made, but...
I'd definitely would've liked to see much more focus on functional core gameplay and strong basic mechanics. We had amazing dynamic lighting effects and all that 3 years ago, but the gameplay basics, netcode and all that much, much later. While the graphics and atmosphere are cool and stuff, you can't really compete with the AAA titles with such small team. It's the gameplay which makes or breaks an indie game and frankly that's where I have most doubts with NS2.
In general I prefer the way how NS1 is built around strong mechanics and then the abilities and various features serve the basic mechanics. For example in NS1 the movement comes from the way the engine handles the player velocity and acceleration. The abilities are then used for creating alternative ways to tap into and negociate with the engine based mechanics. Meanwhile NS2 has most of the movement stuff build right into features and things often stay pretty discrete and lack the natural flow that NS1 movement had.
The same theme seems to repeat everywhere in the game. In NS1 there were first strong basic mechanics and then features built around these mechanics. NS2 on the other hand seems a lot more like a bunch of features that are afterwards connected through mechanics that try to fit all the already existing features into one set of gameplay. As a result, I think NS1 has much smoother interaction between these features even if the features themselves aren't as spectacular and dramatic as in NS2. In NS1 the gameplay feels like all the little details dancing with each other in constant flowing motion. On its best moments it's a thing of beauty to watch the game unfold as all the RTS and FPS layers blend together seamlessly.
True.
The decision against a separate classic / combat mode is the source of a majority of problems that NS2 suffers from.
Desperately trying to clutch both into one is not working out.