Bad Time to remove armor from armories
AurOn2
COOKIES! FREEDOM, AND BISCUITS!Australia Join Date: 2012-01-13 Member: 140224Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Forum staff
COOKIES! FREEDOM, AND BISCUITS!Australia Join Date: 2012-01-13 Member: 140224Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Forum staff
<div class="IPBDescription">Not a bad change so much as a bad time to implement this</div>LAtely, its impossible to win as marines, especialy now that turrets are pointless, aliens are Uber, and now, armories don't give armor back, you have to rely on other people to give you armor. which is extremely tedious, unlikely, and unfun, whilst i have been the team fickser, nobody else seems to grab a welder to do anything, lest its getting resource points back that have lost power or welding base structures.
Not that bad a change, but an extremely terrible build to put it into.
Not that bad a change, but an extremely terrible build to put it into.
Comments
Ppl will learn to help each other, give more than a few days...
But buffing aliens further, and at the same time, without buffing marines in turn...THAT is gamebreaking as I have commented about here:
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=119576&view=findpost&p=1954757" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...t&p=1954757</a>
and further here:
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=119576&view=findpost&p=1954766" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...t&p=1954766</a>
I have played some games where I am the only one getting a welder, and I have also fought teams where every single marine tries to weld each other at the same time. Silly stuff but I attribute it to how new the players are.
Imagine aliens without the onos. It would be a much different game.
The Advanced Armory gives access to the Grenade Launcher and Flamethrower, how is that nothing?
And a protolab right?
The reward isn't that you can spend more res, the reward is the access to the Grenade Launcher and Flamethrower. From my point of view there should only the welder and maybe the MAC to restore damaged armor.
I think i can't follow you. The Advanced Armory gives Access to two new weapons which are kind of a upgrade and it is required for the proto lab afaik i think thats a fair deal.
as for that being the only res sink i have to disagree though: the ARC robotics upgrade doesn't provide any direct bonus either, right? and same goes for building an arms lab or a protolab or your first phasegate: these basically don't do anything unless you invest further.
anyway, regarding their goal is to shorten 1-marine-base-holdouts: i was sceptical about this at first, but it actually seems they achieved it.
i am not sure about this, but can MACs repair marine armor? if yes, do they do it on their own? it sounds like a reasonable late-game solution then: a full-scale alien siege can cripple the armor-restore by destroying the MACs (which is much easier than getting rid of the AA) but you can still regain your armor after being attacked by single attackers who attempt to backdoor the base while the marines are attacking a hive or something.
as for balance, i've had several marine-wins in this patch and it really doesn't seem broken to me. the improved hitreg and the lowered skulk bite-range seem to be a decent nerf for the kharaa.
Wow, the best idea so far. +1 Please do this for next build. Thanks.
Yep, the advanced armor should heal armor. I am on board with that idea.
Oh yeah, and welders should be 2 res.
You could eventually make an advanced armory to also give out armor (or an armory in the same room as an armslab, but that could overcomplicate things).
The welder change itself has been an extreme benefit to teamplay. It also isn't a disadvantage for the marines on the field. Because in 214 you couldn't regain armor on the field even less often.
The armory humping is nearly gone! :D And so are marine endgame turtle stalemates. Adding armor healing to advanced armories will bring this back. If anything, make it an own upgrade and you need a second or third CC for it (so it is endgame only). But please don't bring back that armor-humping marine turtles. It is so much better now.
The marines in all of my games have won round about 2/5 of the games in 215. (This is better than in 214)
Marines only lost when Lerks came in and no shotguns were ready. (To fast to be hittable/killable. Can harass the marines to a degree were they can't leave the base anymore.)
The other cases were marines lost was simply skill difference. Reaching from aliens wining every fight from the start or aliens got more that the half map (more than two hives) and stomped the marines with better tech.
I can't see that marines losing more than in 214. If anything than they are losing less because of the higher spawn-timer for aliens.
Post above me is just lols. "A nerf to marines is actually a benefit!" -Necro. That change also had nothing to do with marine turtles. I still see stalemate turtles because the stalemates are almost exclusively a result of the incredibly fast marine respawn time and have nothing to do with armor healing from armories. It's also still an irrelevant issue.
I also read one of your posts where you said the euros were doing well with the welding and marine play in b215. I spent a few hours playing on HBZ and OAG a night ago. I won every single game, except for one, as aliens for those few hours. Summit, mineshaft, and docking.
But yeah, go on and share with the world how good marines are with their new found teamworks11!
Only times the aliens won despite having less skill than marines, were because of not hittable lerks. Or a lucky push on an undefended marine base.
It's <i>still</i> a case where aliens still win regularly, and as Gorgeous says, it happens after the second hive goes up. There's a mini explosion of carapace, regen and leap that gives aliens a big advantage that they hold until lerks and fades come out. The majority of alien wins I saw are done with these life forms, perhaps also gorges with bile bomb, and Onos were extremely rare (and the most easy to kill).
I think UWE are betting that the EXO will even the odds, and it just might, but if marines can get a proto lab at all, jet packs are still the game shifter on that side. It's been my experience that keeping / holding the second cc becomes impossible once the cara/leap skulks, lerks and fades get on the field.
But isn't it the same for the aliens? If the aliens can't get the 2nd hive they have also lost.
Oh yeah, and welders should be 2 res.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1
A game I played tonight showed me how much this has changed. Jetpackers were far more cautious, and many of them had their welders out 20% of the time. Seeing as I have quite a bad frame rate, and my latency is high, I decided to just take a welder and hold it out all the time, permanently clicking. Doing this I was actually beneficial to the squad, like a walking (old) armoury, where players could come and stand in front of me when they needed armour, and then move off when they were full.
I don't think armour should be replaceable automatically, at all.
Oh ok, I guess not having armour doesn't impact their decisions much. Those jetpackers ey, a stupid lot them.
I played two nights solid when 215 came out and apart from dipping back in for an hour a few nights ago, I Havnt been back. And that is the first time I have had a break since starting playing regularly about two years ago. Way too easy as Aliens and too hard as Marines now and it feels like the armoury change has made that impact and created a larger gap between the sides. Its a change that a much simpler solution could have solved. Just making the armoury heal and give armour back at a slower rate would have solved the armoury humping and would have given marines a chance. Anyone who thinks this change will force teamwork on public servers is mistaken as in all the games I have played in 215 I saw no evidence of that. Just Alien wins because Marines spent more time building/defending and welding rather than doing what they should be doing....expanding, attacking hives and killing Aliens.
I only saw one Alien defeat over those two nights and that was just because the teams went down to 8 - 3 players in the marines favour 5 minutes in. The change now stops the commander making decisions as he now pretty much has to research welders straight away and if a few Skulks rush the base they go to the power node now as its the Marine weak point without welders. Why have they got welders anyway? They can build with the nano tool so why cant that repair?
The easy way would have been to slow down the rate of healing and armour regen. The simplest solution is always the best.
And please dont use the public servers as a test bed for balance as it is not a fair indication. Games are lost as people crash out, one team has no commander, bugs, uneven teams at round start, new comms and a hundred other reasons.
Also this behavior was how it worked in NS1 and there it did work out pretty well. The people have just to get used to it.