<!--quoteo(post=1939828:date=May 29 2012, 04:26 PM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ May 29 2012, 04:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1939828"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My biggest problem with the wall jumping right now is how buggy it is. On numerous occasions I have jumped off a wall and gone from 6-7 speed to as much as 20 or 30. Insane speed boosts which are obviously not intended. Even though it isn't intended, I have seen many people abuse this. I have seen others who just fly around constantly at head height at a speed of 10 or 11, never slowing down and making hardly any noise.
Furthermore it seems completely random. I have gotten the healthy "rarrgh" noise when jumping off a wall, only to be masively slowed down. Other times It makes no noise at all and I get a speed boost.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes, this is by far the most frustrating thing about walljumping, and it is almost certainly due to fps lag and lag prediction.
<!--quoteo(post=1939847:date=May 29 2012, 01:55 PM:name=.ADHd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (.ADHd @ May 29 2012, 01:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1939847"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Those who disagree with me simply have a gamers ego and can't accept that other people are better than them at something. Sometimes people are so much better than you at something you can't even begin to comprehend HOW they are so good... so what do you do? You blame it on being OP... or when this game becomes official we are going to hear people whine about "hacks". See the problem is even the best shooters and players are blinded by their own skill and ego. They can't see the truth in things because they believe "Nobody could be better or more knowledgeable than me!!"
Well players aren't skilled enough so you need to give them stupid "perks" or in this game "upgrades" to make newbies feel better about themselves. Makes things easy enough for people to pick up but hard enough so that it takes dedication to master. Stop skill capping everything in this game in hopes of balancing it for the masses. It's really not possible.
Let the good players shine, and don't be afraid that this game has a high learning curve... that's the whole damn reason I even bought it... and I assume the same for about 90% of the people who pre-ordered. So why the apparent trend to nerf and carebear this game is beyond me.... it must be the vocal minority who has the power in this community. Whoever worships the most get's the most praise and credibility... at least it seems that way. If you slipped up and had a nasty comment or hard critique you are pretty much squelched here. Happened to me plenty of times even though I'd like to think I've contributed a lot to this community. Will I ever get awarded for anything? Probably not... and I doubt any feedback I've ever given on this forum has ever made it into the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Get a grip, you can't call people out on having an ego when you've made three posts in this very thread defending your playing ability. In general you seem to believe that your opinion is more valid than others (which from what I can tell isn't the case).
You also don't speak for 90% of the population, I personally bought the game because of the asymmetry and because I enjoyed NS1.
So no, this isn't about people who are 'outclassed' and want it easy street - This is about some personal insecurities you need to deal with.
Pretty much every popular FPS game has hacks, whether or not this will be popular is another story.
You know wall-jumping is imbalanced, but you want to keep it in the game because <b>you</b> need to feel better about <b>yourself</b> - Pathetic.
<!--quoteo(post=1939850:date=May 29 2012, 05:13 PM:name=Jayaris)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jayaris @ May 29 2012, 05:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1939850"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Get a grip, you can't call people out on having an ego when you've made three posts in this very thread defending your playing ability. In general you seem to believe that your opinion is more valid than others (which from what I can tell isn't the case).
You also don't speak for 90% of the population, I personally bought the game because of the asymmetry and because I enjoyed NS1.
So no, this isn't about people who are 'outclassed' and want it easy street - This is about some personal insecurities you need to deal with.
Pretty much every popular FPS game has hacks, whether or not this will be popular is another story.
You know wall-jumping is imbalanced, but you want to keep it in the game because <b>you</b> need to feel better about <b>yourself</b> - Pathetic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course I will defend myself when people try to play me down like I don't know what I am talking about. Cause I am confident in my ideas and opinions and that's what pisses people off about me. They don't like how I present things, and they don't like my direct and blunt way of communicating. People in general don't like my attitude, which I am working on believe it or not. But that's how people judge me... on my presentation rather than my actual quality as a player. Wall jumping is not imbalanced. There just needs to be a better way to counter it... maybe by beefing the marine team for ONCE in the entire existence of the beta.
Any time the balance went more for marine side was due to the aliens being nerfed. Think about it really nice and hard and you will find that I am right. It's about time the marines got their "OP" thing. Instead people just complain about aliens and nerf them... making aliens stupid and boring to play as. I'm trying to make this game better dude.
<!--quoteo(post=1939850:date=May 29 2012, 06:13 PM:name=Jayaris)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jayaris @ May 29 2012, 06:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1939850"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Get a grip, you can't call people out on having an ego when you've made three posts in this very thread defending your playing ability. In general you seem to believe that your opinion is more valid than others (which from what I can tell isn't the case).
You also don't speak for 90% of the population, I personally bought the game because of the asymmetry and because I enjoyed NS1.
So no, this isn't about people who are 'outclassed' and want it easy street - This is about some personal insecurities you need to deal with.
Pretty much every popular FPS game has hacks, whether or not this will be popular is another story.
You know wall-jumping is imbalanced, but you want to keep it in the game because <b>you</b> need to feel better about <b>yourself</b> - Pathetic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
walljumping is required for the skulk. take it out and see how easily the aliens get dominated.
<!--quoteo(post=1939857:date=May 29 2012, 06:36 PM:name=Namm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Namm @ May 29 2012, 06:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1939857"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->With Celerity, how less important will wall-jumping be?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1939857:date=May 29 2012, 06:36 PM:name=Namm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Namm @ May 29 2012, 06:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1939857"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->With Celerity, how less important will wall-jumping be?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Depends. I've heard quite a few implementations for Celerity.
One being that it only works on infestation making it a complete waste of an upgrade.
I have a feeling wall-jumping will still give you a better speed than Celerity could offer.
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=Concerning the Lerk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Concerning the Lerk)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It begs re-iterating that no upgrade should be mandatory, so while celerity adds to speed, the class should be able to function perfectly fine without it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Don't use celerity to fix the skulk's buggered up base-speed.
Celerity is not miracle fix, the skulk should work fine without celerity.
With some adjustments to wall jump the skulk would work much better. Just need to prevent skulks to be able to get the speed instantly in combat and be able to combine unpredictable movement with full speed.
<!--quoteo(post=1939870:date=May 29 2012, 05:57 PM:name=Grissi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Grissi @ May 29 2012, 05:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1939870"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Celerity is not miracle fix, the skulk should work fine without celerity.
With some adjustments to wall jump the skulk would work much better. Just need to prevent skulks to be able to get the speed instantly in combat and be able to combine unpredictable movement with full speed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why does this need to be adjusted grissi? All I've seen people say is "This needs to be changed" but they have yet to give an example or a proven theory to back how this gameplay element is broken.
In my eyes the walljumping is the single most brilliant mechanic in NS2. I litterally will sit in the ready room with the skulk for entire rounds just practice wall jumping.... because it's fun as ######.
<!--quoteo(post=1939872:date=May 29 2012, 07:00 PM:name=.ADHd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (.ADHd @ May 29 2012, 07:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1939872"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In my eyes the walljumping is the single most brilliant mechanic in NS2. I litterally will sit in the ready room with the skulk for entire rounds just practice wall jumping.... because it's fun as ######.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How much less brilliant would it be if it was just bhop from ns1 instead?
<!--quoteo(post=1939872:date=May 29 2012, 07:00 PM:name=.ADHd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (.ADHd @ May 29 2012, 07:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1939872"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why does this need to be adjusted grissi? All I've seen people say is "This needs to be changed" but they have yet to give an example or a proven theory to back how this gameplay element is broken.
In my eyes the walljumping is the single most brilliant mechanic in NS2. I litterally will sit in the ready room with the skulk for entire rounds just practice wall jumping.... because it's fun as ######.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Walljump is a good mechanic, I just think it needs adjustment but not removed. Marines versus skulk is one of the most important factor in natural selection so having this solid is very important.
Now lets think about a 1v1 marine vs skulk fight. There were few very good skulk that usually did the same thing, they went into medium range where it can be bit hard to hit a skulk and simply walljumped a lot without getting close. Not only were they on insane speed they could also move in any direction possible making it near impossible to predict. Now at random timing they will attack you, before that point you either kept some bullets to wait for this window of predictable movement or you risked all your ammo before he attacked you leaving you very vulnerable even in a range corridor. This kind of movement also works well to waste ammo from group of players allowing others skulks to easily attack low ammo marines. basically if you meet this kind of skulk you have very high chance of wasting 50 bullets into killing them. This also combines with fps lag and reg problems.
I think the problem is connected to full freedom of movement with insane speed that is easy to acquire even in combat. Skulks basically move like pancaking lerks. I think The adjustment required is to remove part of that freedom of movement so they won't be able to keep full speed if they jump into ceilings or are forced to jump into predictable patterns(like bunnyhop was). Then you could still go for unpredictability with less speed or go for full speed but be more predictable. This will also make more visual team play on stream adding to the spectator value of the game.
I might be wrong ofc and I would love to hear your options. I always listen to good arguments.
Edit: The comment about bhop in my earlier post was just to give a different perspective, not nessisary to bring bhop back.
<!--quoteo(post=1939913:date=May 29 2012, 08:09 PM:name=Wheeee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wheeee @ May 29 2012, 08:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1939913"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->would be interesting to decrease skulk air control the faster he gets, to give a trade-off between fast movement and unpredictability.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't see why instead of nerfing it in it's current fun and non-rule bound state we don't just balance it out by giving marines a better way to counter it. I say beef some aspect of the marines rifle... let it do slightly more damage vs skulks or something to counter not being able to get a steady stream of bullets into a skulk. All new players should be learning walljumps anyway so ground skulks are obviously going to be shredded and people would cry on the forums about it (When really they just dont know how to walljump). This approach makes a thousand times more sense to me than simply nerfing aspects of the game that have been in place for builds and builds. I'm tired of the devs changing the game so fundamentally by nerfing things... why not BUFF things instead? It makes a hell of a lot more sense to me. Skulk jumping is fun. Being unpredictable is FUN and people who are smart can use it well... now you want to hinder something that is skill based to make it easier for everyone else? HE OUTSMARTED ME AND DEKED ME OUT BY BEING UNPREDICTABLE!!!! SOOO OP.... THATS TOO EASY. Really? It's not easy.
I don't see the logic here. Marines have always needed a damage buff to the LMG in my opinion.. perhaps only for skulks.
A single skulk on average is much more deadly than a single marine (When equal skill is involved). The skulk should win more engagements in theory if you know how to use the walljumps effectively. Because of this... marines should get a buff... so it equals out... but keeps the gameplay fast... fun.. and unpredictable. I don't want a game where everything is predictable and easy... and spoon fed.
EDIT: Crazy idea I had... what about simply giving the LMG magazine 10 more rounds. Haha let the flaming commence....
imo the only buff marines need right now is better performance and reg. you can't track anything at 20fps, which is when it matters. doesn't matter if you get 60 fps running around the map if as soon as a blood splatter appears in your face you get a slideshow. just wait, when the promised performance increases hit, you will probably be able to faceroll your keyboard and get 14 lmg bullets into a skulk.
I think the wall jump is fine If it was not in the game the early game for aliens would really suffer massively
The skulk is not meant to be a surgical strike type of class like the fade is With the fade you need to rush in get a few hits off and rush out Skulk is meant to run in and most likely die while dealing as much damage as possible(even after death with some upgrades as in ns1)
1v1 vs a marine the skulk with almost certainly lose unless you can get right up on them which wall jumping helps but its not 100% since its loud and at times unpredictable One issue currently is hit reg The shotgun should 1 shot a skulk nearly 100% of the time but I find it takes 2-3 or even 4 hits sometimes to kill. I dont even buy the shotgun anymore I would rather chance my res with mines over chancing it with a shotgun
<!--quoteo(post=1939847:date=May 29 2012, 11:55 PM:name=.ADHd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (.ADHd @ May 29 2012, 11:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1939847"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If this is true then I will go back to never playing alien side again... and on top of that will probably take a long break from this game until release comes and all the big mistakes and bad design elements will come full circle.
This may sound harsh...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, no. It does not sound harsh. It sounds immature. I think adult people can argument with actual arguments and not with "If you don't make it my way, I won't play with you again!"
<!--quoteo(post=1939847:date=May 29 2012, 11:55 PM:name=.ADHd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (.ADHd @ May 29 2012, 11:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1939847"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Those who disagree with me simply have a gamers ego and can't accept that other people are better than them at something.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Same here. "Everyone who has another opinion is worthless and stupid and bla..." Can't you accept, that other people have other opinions? On top of that, you don't help the devs to figure out what is best to do, judging on arguments. (As you should, because you are in a beta.) You really think the devs will say: "Oh, this guy won't play our game if we does change that. Better leave it." Oh, really?
You are the living example of more than one prototype in <a href="http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/" target="_blank">Taming the forum tiger</a>. Please read this and start arguing like an adult. Thx.
<u><b>On topic:</b></u> I think grissi and Soylent_green have brought up some good points. A skill depending movement action should be implemented. As the design doc said, it should not be mandatory to be successful with the skulk (aka noob-friendly) or a easy to learn but hard to master skill, that rewards those who practicing. On top of this now comes the need of being predictable by lag compensation. This is needed to decrease the teleporting / rubberbanding to make it fair for the marines and get a fluid (in the best case immersive) visual look and animation.
We also should ask, if a constantly jumping skulk is what we want in terms of immersion. Wouldn't it look better if the skulks would use more wall- and ceiling-running, instead of sorta flying through the hallways? Sure, if you would speed up simply by wall-walking, where would one add the skill in that? Maybe the map geometry would force you to jump occasionally to another wall / ceiling to not bump into things and get slowed down. This would sure look nicer, but is maybe less skill-dependent.
Also the trade-off between speed and predictability should be thought of, as grissi said. A camping marine aiming down a long hallway should kill the engaging skulk. Because he positioned him self well and should be rewarded. But a skulk that can manage to engage a marine at mid range should have a fair chance. If the skulk engaged the marine at short range, he should be in favor.
Right now, a skulk that is good in wall jumping can engage a single marine at any range. He can jump so unpredictable and fast, that the marine won't hit em anyway, in the most cases.
I think its also important to point out that how wallhop currently scales with regards to skill is very poor, which sees average marines loosing to equally skilled skulks as it is pretty easy to pickup and exploit wallhop.
I do think that the skulk issue is not a huge issue in the overall picture, i think as perf and FPS improves the problem will be much less of an issue, but it is still something that should be discussed and improved if possible.
<!--quoteo(post=1939966:date=May 30 2012, 02:46 AM:name=_Necro_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (_Necro_ @ May 30 2012, 02:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1939966"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Actually, no. It does not sound harsh. It sounds immature. I think adult people can argument with actual arguments and not with "If you don't make it my way, I won't play with you again!"
Same here. "Everyone who has another opinion is worthless and stupid and bla..." Can't you accept, that other people have other opinions? On top of that, you don't help the devs to figure out what is best to do, judging on arguments. (As you should, because you are in a beta.) You really think the devs will say: "Oh, this guy won't play our game if we does change that. Better leave it." Oh, really?
You are the living example of more than one prototype in <a href="http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/" target="_blank">Taming the forum tiger</a>. Please read this and start arguing like an adult. Thx.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>Snip. All opinions are equally valuable, but you still need to take care in how you express them. -Align</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Also my opinion isn't about ME or what I think. I represent more than just one person. I know what sells. I know what is fun. I know how this game could make it big and I'm trying to help. I know how to get people to buy this game... it has to be fun not tedious and monotonous.
I feel like if the server performance is to only ever reach a maximum of 30 ticks per second you can't justify making the skulk as fast and unpredictable as walljump currently makes him; even though he has such a large hitbox/model.
If this server performance goal is actual then I feel like skulk has to be less spastic from walljump and a smaller model to compensate for this. The smaller model shouldn't be an issue with a low tickrate, but the speed and unpredictability would be.
Comments
Furthermore it seems completely random. I have gotten the healthy "rarrgh" noise when jumping off a wall, only to be masively slowed down. Other times It makes no noise at all and I get a speed boost.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes, this is by far the most frustrating thing about walljumping, and it is almost certainly due to fps lag and lag prediction.
Well players aren't skilled enough so you need to give them stupid "perks" or in this game "upgrades" to make newbies feel better about themselves. Makes things easy enough for people to pick up but hard enough so that it takes dedication to master. Stop skill capping everything in this game in hopes of balancing it for the masses. It's really not possible.
Let the good players shine, and don't be afraid that this game has a high learning curve... that's the whole damn reason I even bought it... and I assume the same for about 90% of the people who pre-ordered. So why the apparent trend to nerf and carebear this game is beyond me.... it must be the vocal minority who has the power in this community. Whoever worships the most get's the most praise and credibility... at least it seems that way. If you slipped up and had a nasty comment or hard critique you are pretty much squelched here. Happened to me plenty of times even though I'd like to think I've contributed a lot to this community. Will I ever get awarded for anything? Probably not... and I doubt any feedback I've ever given on this forum has ever made it into the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Get a grip, you can't call people out on having an ego when you've made three posts in this very thread defending your playing ability. In general you seem to believe that your opinion is more valid than others (which from what I can tell isn't the case).
You also don't speak for 90% of the population, I personally bought the game because of the asymmetry and because I enjoyed NS1.
So no, this isn't about people who are 'outclassed' and want it easy street - This is about some personal insecurities you need to deal with.
Pretty much every popular FPS game has hacks, whether or not this will be popular is another story.
You know wall-jumping is imbalanced, but you want to keep it in the game because <b>you</b> need to feel better about <b>yourself</b> - Pathetic.
You also don't speak for 90% of the population, I personally bought the game because of the asymmetry and because I enjoyed NS1.
So no, this isn't about people who are 'outclassed' and want it easy street - This is about some personal insecurities you need to deal with.
Pretty much every popular FPS game has hacks, whether or not this will be popular is another story.
You know wall-jumping is imbalanced, but you want to keep it in the game because <b>you</b> need to feel better about <b>yourself</b> - Pathetic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course I will defend myself when people try to play me down like I don't know what I am talking about. Cause I am confident in my ideas and opinions and that's what pisses people off about me. They don't like how I present things, and they don't like my direct and blunt way of communicating. People in general don't like my attitude, which I am working on believe it or not. But that's how people judge me... on my presentation rather than my actual quality as a player. Wall jumping is not imbalanced. There just needs to be a better way to counter it... maybe by beefing the marine team for ONCE in the entire existence of the beta.
Any time the balance went more for marine side was due to the aliens being nerfed. Think about it really nice and hard and you will find that I am right. It's about time the marines got their "OP" thing. Instead people just complain about aliens and nerf them... making aliens stupid and boring to play as. I'm trying to make this game better dude.
You also don't speak for 90% of the population, I personally bought the game because of the asymmetry and because I enjoyed NS1.
So no, this isn't about people who are 'outclassed' and want it easy street - This is about some personal insecurities you need to deal with.
Pretty much every popular FPS game has hacks, whether or not this will be popular is another story.
You know wall-jumping is imbalanced, but you want to keep it in the game because <b>you</b> need to feel better about <b>yourself</b> - Pathetic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
walljumping is required for the skulk. take it out and see how easily the aliens get dominated.
hopefully a lot, since it's a terrible mechanic!
Depends. I've heard quite a few implementations for Celerity.
One being that it only works on infestation making it a complete waste of an upgrade.
I have a feeling wall-jumping will still give you a better speed than Celerity could offer.
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=Concerning the Lerk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Concerning the Lerk)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It begs re-iterating that no upgrade should be mandatory, so while celerity adds to speed, the class should be able to function perfectly fine without it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't use celerity to fix the skulk's buggered up base-speed.
With some adjustments to wall jump the skulk would work much better. Just need to prevent skulks to be able to get the speed instantly in combat and be able to combine unpredictable movement with full speed.
With some adjustments to wall jump the skulk would work much better. Just need to prevent skulks to be able to get the speed instantly in combat and be able to combine unpredictable movement with full speed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why does this need to be adjusted grissi? All I've seen people say is "This needs to be changed" but they have yet to give an example or a proven theory to back how this gameplay element is broken.
In my eyes the walljumping is the single most brilliant mechanic in NS2. I litterally will sit in the ready room with the skulk for entire rounds just practice wall jumping.... because it's fun as ######.
How much less brilliant would it be if it was just bhop from ns1 instead?
In my eyes the walljumping is the single most brilliant mechanic in NS2. I litterally will sit in the ready room with the skulk for entire rounds just practice wall jumping.... because it's fun as ######.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Walljump is a good mechanic, I just think it needs adjustment but not removed. Marines versus skulk is one of the most important factor in natural selection so having this solid is very important.
Now lets think about a 1v1 marine vs skulk fight. There were few very good skulk that usually did the same thing, they went into medium range where it can be bit hard to hit a skulk and simply walljumped a lot without getting close. Not only were they on insane speed they could also move in any direction possible making it near impossible to predict.
Now at random timing they will attack you, before that point you either kept some bullets to wait for this window of predictable movement or you risked all your ammo before he attacked you leaving you very vulnerable even in a range corridor.
This kind of movement also works well to waste ammo from group of players allowing others skulks to easily attack low ammo marines. basically if you meet this kind of skulk you have very high chance of wasting 50 bullets into killing them. This also combines with fps lag and reg problems.
I think the problem is connected to full freedom of movement with insane speed that is easy to acquire even in combat. Skulks basically move like pancaking lerks.
I think The adjustment required is to remove part of that freedom of movement so they won't be able to keep full speed if they jump into ceilings or are forced to jump into predictable patterns(like bunnyhop was). Then you could still go for unpredictability with less speed or go for full speed but be more predictable. This will also make more visual team play on stream adding to the spectator value of the game.
I might be wrong ofc and I would love to hear your options. I always listen to good arguments.
Edit:
The comment about bhop in my earlier post was just to give a different perspective, not nessisary to bring bhop back.
I don't see why instead of nerfing it in it's current fun and non-rule bound state we don't just balance it out by giving marines a better way to counter it. I say beef some aspect of the marines rifle... let it do slightly more damage vs skulks or something to counter not being able to get a steady stream of bullets into a skulk. All new players should be learning walljumps anyway so ground skulks are obviously going to be shredded and people would cry on the forums about it (When really they just dont know how to walljump). This approach makes a thousand times more sense to me than simply nerfing aspects of the game that have been in place for builds and builds. I'm tired of the devs changing the game so fundamentally by nerfing things... why not BUFF things instead? It makes a hell of a lot more sense to me. Skulk jumping is fun. Being unpredictable is FUN and people who are smart can use it well... now you want to hinder something that is skill based to make it easier for everyone else? HE OUTSMARTED ME AND DEKED ME OUT BY BEING UNPREDICTABLE!!!! SOOO OP.... THATS TOO EASY. Really? It's not easy.
I don't see the logic here. Marines have always needed a damage buff to the LMG in my opinion.. perhaps only for skulks.
A single skulk on average is much more deadly than a single marine (When equal skill is involved). The skulk should win more engagements in theory if you know how to use the walljumps effectively. Because of this... marines should get a buff... so it equals out... but keeps the gameplay fast... fun.. and unpredictable. I don't want a game where everything is predictable and easy... and spoon fed.
EDIT: Crazy idea I had... what about simply giving the LMG magazine 10 more rounds. Haha let the flaming commence....
If it was not in the game the early game for aliens would really suffer massively
The skulk is not meant to be a surgical strike type of class like the fade is
With the fade you need to rush in get a few hits off and rush out
Skulk is meant to run in and most likely die while dealing as much damage as possible(even after death with some upgrades as in ns1)
1v1 vs a marine the skulk with almost certainly lose unless you can get right up on them which wall jumping helps but its not 100% since its loud and at times unpredictable
One issue currently is hit reg
The shotgun should 1 shot a skulk nearly 100% of the time but I find it takes 2-3 or even 4 hits sometimes to kill.
I dont even buy the shotgun anymore I would rather chance my res with mines over chancing it with a shotgun
This may sound harsh...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, no. It does not sound harsh. It sounds immature. I think adult people can argument with actual arguments and not with "If you don't make it my way, I won't play with you again!"
<!--quoteo(post=1939847:date=May 29 2012, 11:55 PM:name=.ADHd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (.ADHd @ May 29 2012, 11:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1939847"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Those who disagree with me simply have a gamers ego and can't accept that other people are better than them at something.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Same here. "Everyone who has another opinion is worthless and stupid and bla..." Can't you accept, that other people have other opinions? On top of that, you don't help the devs to figure out what is best to do, judging on arguments. (As you should, because you are in a beta.) You really think the devs will say: "Oh, this guy won't play our game if we does change that. Better leave it." Oh, really?
You are the living example of more than one prototype in <a href="http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/" target="_blank">Taming the forum tiger</a>. Please read this and start arguing like an adult. Thx.
<u><b>On topic:</b></u>
I think grissi and Soylent_green have brought up some good points. A skill depending movement action should be implemented. As the design doc said, it should not be mandatory to be successful with the skulk (aka noob-friendly) or a easy to learn but hard to master skill, that rewards those who practicing. On top of this now comes the need of being predictable by lag compensation. This is needed to decrease the teleporting / rubberbanding to make it fair for the marines and get a fluid (in the best case immersive) visual look and animation.
We also should ask, if a constantly jumping skulk is what we want in terms of immersion. Wouldn't it look better if the skulks would use more wall- and ceiling-running, instead of sorta flying through the hallways? Sure, if you would speed up simply by wall-walking, where would one add the skill in that? Maybe the map geometry would force you to jump occasionally to another wall / ceiling to not bump into things and get slowed down. This would sure look nicer, but is maybe less skill-dependent.
Also the trade-off between speed and predictability should be thought of, as grissi said. A camping marine aiming down a long hallway should kill the engaging skulk. Because he positioned him self well and should be rewarded. But a skulk that can manage to engage a marine at mid range should have a fair chance. If the skulk engaged the marine at short range, he should be in favor.
Right now, a skulk that is good in wall jumping can engage a single marine at any range. He can jump so unpredictable and fast, that the marine won't hit em anyway, in the most cases.
I do think that the skulk issue is not a huge issue in the overall picture, i think as perf and FPS improves the problem will be much less of an issue, but it is still something that should be discussed and improved if possible.
Same here. "Everyone who has another opinion is worthless and stupid and bla..." Can't you accept, that other people have other opinions? On top of that, you don't help the devs to figure out what is best to do, judging on arguments. (As you should, because you are in a beta.) You really think the devs will say: "Oh, this guy won't play our game if we does change that. Better leave it." Oh, really?
You are the living example of more than one prototype in <a href="http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/" target="_blank">Taming the forum tiger</a>. Please read this and start arguing like an adult. Thx.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>Snip. All opinions are equally valuable, but you still need to take care in how you express them.
-Align</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Also my opinion isn't about ME or what I think. I represent more than just one person. I know what sells. I know what is fun. I know how this game could make it big and I'm trying to help. I know how to get people to buy this game... it has to be fun not tedious and monotonous.
If this server performance goal is actual then I feel like skulk has to be less spastic from walljump and a smaller model to compensate for this. The smaller model shouldn't be an issue with a low tickrate, but the speed and unpredictability would be.