I really dislike the idea of changes being undone. Not because I care how they decide mechanics should work, but because it symbolises wasted man hours.
<!--quoteo(post=1937050:date=May 18 2012, 11:33 AM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ May 18 2012, 11:33 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1937050"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I really dislike the idea of changes being undone. Not because I care how they decide mechanics should work, but because it symbolises wasted man hours.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You really do come off as a troll trying to illicit responses.
<!--quoteo(post=1937052:date=May 18 2012, 08:36 PM:name=Ryne)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ryne @ May 18 2012, 08:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1937052"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You really do come off as a troll trying to illicit responses.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I fear its because your mind is already made before you read the words.
<!--quoteo(post=1937050:date=May 18 2012, 07:33 PM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ May 18 2012, 07:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1937050"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I really dislike the idea of changes being undone. Not because I care how they decide mechanics should work, but because it symbolises wasted man hours.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, they aren't waisted. You have to try new things in order to know if they work better. If they do, great. if they don't, you get experience and can better judge other improvements down the line. Just like with everything in life.
<!--quoteo(post=1937057:date=May 18 2012, 08:50 PM:name=Obraxis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Obraxis @ May 18 2012, 08:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1937057"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Actually, they aren't waisted. You have to try new things in order to know if they work better. If they do, great. if they don't, you get experience and can better judge other improvements down the line. Just like with everything in life.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
True enough. I guess its just frustrating from a players perspective to have to adjust then readjust, but as long as the final product is better because of it, its worth it.
<img src="http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e371/grinsalot/bangpow.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" /> Design task Move Bile Bomb to Gorge has appeared with status Unstarted ... THANK YOU!!!!!!! now just remove the free stuff :)
<!--quoteo(post=1937058:date=May 18 2012, 03:56 PM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ May 18 2012, 03:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1937058"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->True enough. I guess its just frustrating from a players perspective to have to adjust then readjust, but as long as the final product is better because of it, its worth it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What build did you start playing active at? And how many hours do you have?
<!--quoteo(post=1937060:date=May 18 2012, 08:57 PM:name=JuCCi-PuCCi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JuCCi-PuCCi @ May 18 2012, 08:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1937060"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What build did you start playing active at? And how many hours do you have?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
OK then.... i got 921 hours been here since 180. You say it sucks to see changes that you feel are pointless..... The gorge had bile bomb before you came around.... And there has been many on going changes. I feel with 3.5 hours you have no clue what you're talking about. Orrrrr you are the troll Master talks about. Please play the game and understand it more before you make more post past 403
<!--quoteo(post=1937052:date=May 18 2012, 11:36 AM:name=Ryne)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ryne @ May 18 2012, 11:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1937052"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You really do come off as a troll trying to illicit responses.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't bother, its obvious he's getting paid by UWE to increase website traffic.
I have yet to hear back from a moderator about his constant trolling, yet Jucci, Jayaris, and I were personally chastised in my previous thread by Talesin (the moderator) for pointing out the obvious fallicies that clearly indicate he's trolling.
<!--quoteo(post=1937063:date=May 18 2012, 09:04 PM:name=JuCCi-PuCCi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JuCCi-PuCCi @ May 18 2012, 09:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1937063"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You say it sucks to see changes that you feel are pointless.....<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm sorry I don't remember doing this. I know that the builder alien used to have acid bomb, but he is so slow lol! its much beter if the fade has it because then you can drop it quickly and fly away!
Ok so, that was trolling, a little taste so that you can better identify it. Naughty me I'm sorry.
Anyway, No I never felt that it was a pointless change, merely that it seems counter productive that something be changed, only to be changed back. Obraxis' argument enlightened me to the process however. Also, I bought during the alpha, and attempted to play, but at the time had a very poor laptop. I upgraded about 9 months ago to play, and currently have 400 hours play time. Sorry if my qualifications are not up to your standards, but NS1 was and still is the best game I have ever played, and thus I have an "investment" of sorts in this game, and its success, as I'm sure you do.
<!--quoteo(post=1937051:date=May 18 2012, 11:35 AM:name=Daphisto)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Daphisto @ May 18 2012, 11:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1937051"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I wonder what cool changes the lerk is going to get next, if his bile bomb is being clipped.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now if only they'd allow lerks to pick up gorges to go on a bombing run in marine base, all my most solicitous dreams would come true!
No, really.
I mean it.
Of course it sounds ludicrous at first, but just imagine the goddamn FUN!
(Abuse disclaimer: It's abuse-proof: Lerk would be able to pick gorges, but with a 10sec cooldown. Gorges, only gorges, would be able to press a button to drop the gorge. Himself. That being the gorge.)
<!--quoteo(post=1937072:date=May 18 2012, 09:16 PM:name=PsiWarp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PsiWarp @ May 18 2012, 09:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1937072"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As an avid Gorge, I am delighted at this news, but as a frequent Lerk, I fear the return of the days with Spike and Spore only :(
On a side note, would be cool if Bile Bomb made a larger splat, like how Spit does it currently.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Didn't they mention that they wanted a bile bombesque ability that isn't quite the same as what we now know as bile bomb? Maybe that is going to make an appearance. Or maybe I'm imagining things.
<!--quoteo(post=1937074:date=May 18 2012, 12:20 PM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ May 18 2012, 12:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1937074"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Didn't they mention that they wanted a bile bombesque ability that isn't quite the same as what we now know as bile bomb? Maybe that is going to make an appearance. Or maybe I'm imagining things.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All I remember was differentiation between Bombard and Bile Bomb, but I have hopes for Lerk yet :)
<!--quoteo(post=1937059:date=May 18 2012, 10:56 AM:name=JuCCi-PuCCi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JuCCi-PuCCi @ May 18 2012, 10:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1937059"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->now just remove the free stuff :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes... please. This free building and hard cap on hydras is stupid and screams of a desperate attempt to cap the framerate because the engine is an unoptimized pile right now.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
<!--quoteo(post=1937076:date=May 18 2012, 12:30 PM:name=paradoxum)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (paradoxum @ May 18 2012, 12:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1937076"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes... please. This free building and hard cap on hydras is stupid and screams of a desperate attempt to cap the framerate because the engine is an unoptimized pile right now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sorry but that's not the case. There are reasons that have been mentioned many times, in threads, in Q & A etc of why costing pres to use your abilities is a bad idea. This won't be changed any time soon. Instead try to work within these constraints and provide ways to improve the current system so it works better.
If you listen to the first Q & A you will hear one lerk ability coming down the road. And if you use your intuition you might be able to guess whats replacing BB on the lerk - hint: it does not hurt structures like the BB does. :-D
p.s. good to see you back master blaster, but you should focus your efforts back on posting/topic instead of the individuals in here, otherwise it merely worsens or encourages responses etc. leave the moderating to the moderators and if you really have a complaint you can PM any of them or us PTs. Thanks
<!--quoteo(post=1937091:date=May 18 2012, 01:40 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ May 18 2012, 01:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1937091"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sorry but that's not the case. There are reasons that have been mentioned many times, in threads, in Q & A etc of why costing pres to use your abilities is a bad idea. This won't be changed any time soon. Instead try to work within these constraints and provide ways to improve the current system so it works better.
If you listen to the first Q & A you will hear one lerk ability coming down the road. And if you use your intuition you might be able to guess whats replacing BB on the lerk - hint: it does not hurt structures like the BB does. :-D
p.s. good to see you back master blaster, but you should focus your efforts back on posting/topic instead of the individuals in here, otherwise it merely worsens or encourages responses etc. leave the moderating to the moderators and if you really have a complaint you can PM any of them or us PTs. Thanks<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ironhorse I truly appreciate your pleasant responses to my presence on this forum and my posts. You seem to be one of the few people actually capable of talking on the internet like you would talk to someone in real life. Thank you for continuing to present yourself this way.
Need more people like you on the forum.
As for your post, the thing I miss most is the gorgeous hydra farms. They were very pretty and deadly. Hopefully the p-res issue can be alleviated one way or another.
<!--quoteo(post=1937091:date=May 18 2012, 12:40 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ May 18 2012, 12:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1937091"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sorry but that's not the case. There are reasons that have been mentioned many times, in threads, in Q & A etc of why costing pres to use your abilities is a bad idea. This won't be changed any time soon. Instead try to work within these constraints and provide ways to improve the current system so it works better.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They're not abilities, they're structures.
And this change has brought more problems than it .. I want to say fixed, but there were no problems with the previous system anyway.
The current system is ###### and people wouldn't have to provide ways to "improve it so it works better" if we simply had the superior PRes system which had no problems at all.
Not only is the new Gorge system crap, it's just plain boring to play as a gorge now.
Now if only they'd allow lerks to pick up gorges to go on a bombing run in marine base, all my most solicitous dreams would come true!
No, really.
I mean it.
Of course it sounds ludicrous at first, but just imagine the goddamn FUN!
(Abuse disclaimer: It's abuse-proof: Lerk would be able to pick gorges, but with a 10sec cooldown. Gorges, only gorges, would be able to press a button to drop the gorge. Himself. That being the gorge.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
<!--quoteo(post=1937105:date=May 18 2012, 02:32 PM:name=paradoxum)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (paradoxum @ May 18 2012, 02:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1937105"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They're not abilities, they're structures. And this change has brought more problems than it .. I want to say fixed, but there were no problems with the previous system anyway. The current system is ###### and people wouldn't have to provide ways to "improve it so it works better" if we simply had the superior PRes system which had no problems at all. Not only is the new Gorge system crap, it's just plain boring to play as a gorge now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm pretty sure you've been in the other prior gorge threads, so im confused, but i'll answer anyways:
They are abilities. The fact that his ability resembles a structure and is stationary does not take away the fact that it is his method of interacting with the world and using the tools given to him. No other class costs pres to use their abilities. An arms lab is far different from a hydra.
This change only has problems because it is not fully implemented. This is iterative beta development. Nothing is done in the first pass.
Problems with the old system besides the obvious being the only exception to the rule, is that it was the sole purpose of Starting Pres being so high (25), effectively skipping the early game by allowing lerks to come out in 2 min, fade in 4:30 etc. as well as some other nasty side effects that highlighted Mass tech (marines should theoretically be able to kill an alien team in time before they attempt to mass tech into Oni etc.) And of course my favorite downside: Costing Pres meant you were always locked into PermaGorge. Sure if your team dominated the map and it was late game you might be able to go lerk, but in a balanced fight, in order to be an impacting gorge you locked yourself into that role for the duration. No other class has this side effect except commanders (Which arent a class) - as there are good reasons for them to be - unlike a gorge - who may not be needed at certain points or may get bored of playing that class after 30 minutes while everyone else is playing every class.
As for "boring to play" .. like i said: Iterative beta development. <b>Be patient, my friend.</b> (this patch already gave the gorge some love, more to come though *looks at internal build*)
<!--quoteo(post=1937093:date=May 18 2012, 02:47 PM:name=Master Blaster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Master Blaster @ May 18 2012, 02:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1937093"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As for your post, the thing I miss most is the gorgeous hydra farms. They were very pretty and deadly. Hopefully the p-res issue can be alleviated one way or another.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I miss this most. Hydra farms are beautiful. The great sense of accomplishment when they need arcs to enter a room.
Back on topic though, glad to see the gorge getting combat ability back. We gorge players have been shafted in last few builds in terms of this. I'm a bit sad to see the lerk lose bilebomb though, since Lerk was probably the one class that felt perfect in its current state.
SecurityJoin Date: 2005-01-07Member: 33133Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited May 2012
Now if they only had listened to the masses of people who told them that it wouldnt work out right away.. <img src="http://board.gulli.com/userimages/smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Comments
You really do come off as a troll trying to illicit responses.
I fear its because your mind is already made before you read the words.
Actually, they aren't waisted. You have to try new things in order to know if they work better. If they do, great. if they don't, you get experience and can better judge other improvements down the line. Just like with everything in life.
True enough. I guess its just frustrating from a players perspective to have to adjust then readjust, but as long as the final product is better because of it, its worth it.
Design task Move Bile Bomb to Gorge has appeared with status Unstarted ... THANK YOU!!!!!!! now just remove the free stuff :)
What build did you start playing active at? And how many hours do you have?
B206, 3 and a half hours.
Thanks the gods.
Edit: I hope they have the original bile bomb damage too and not DoT.
Don't bother, its obvious he's getting paid by UWE to increase website traffic.
I have yet to hear back from a moderator about his constant trolling, yet Jucci, Jayaris, and I were personally chastised in my previous thread by Talesin (the moderator) for pointing out the obvious fallicies that clearly indicate he's trolling.
I'm sorry I don't remember doing this. I know that the builder alien used to have acid bomb, but he is so slow lol! its much beter if the fade has it because then you can drop it quickly and fly away!
Ok so, that was trolling, a little taste so that you can better identify it. Naughty me I'm sorry.
Anyway, No I never felt that it was a pointless change, merely that it seems counter productive that something be changed, only to be changed back. Obraxis' argument enlightened me to the process however. Also, I bought during the alpha, and attempted to play, but at the time had a very poor laptop. I upgraded about 9 months ago to play, and currently have 400 hours play time. Sorry if my qualifications are not up to your standards, but NS1 was and still is the best game I have ever played, and thus I have an "investment" of sorts in this game, and its success, as I'm sure you do.
Bite? Noooo!!! Lerk lift! Yess!!!
On a side note, would be cool if Bile Bomb made a larger splat, like how Spit does it currently.
Now if only they'd allow lerks to pick up gorges to go on a bombing run in marine base, all my most solicitous dreams would come true!
No, really.
I mean it.
Of course it sounds ludicrous at first, but just imagine the goddamn FUN!
(Abuse disclaimer: It's abuse-proof: Lerk would be able to pick gorges, but with a 10sec cooldown. Gorges, only gorges, would be able to press a button to drop the gorge. Himself. That being the gorge.)
On a side note, would be cool if Bile Bomb made a larger splat, like how Spit does it currently.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Didn't they mention that they wanted a bile bombesque ability that isn't quite the same as what we now know as bile bomb? Maybe that is going to make an appearance. Or maybe I'm imagining things.
All I remember was differentiation between Bombard and Bile Bomb, but I have hopes for Lerk yet :)
Yes... please. This free building and hard cap on hydras is stupid and screams of a desperate attempt to cap the framerate because the engine is an unoptimized pile right now.
Hope the lerk will get a 3rd ability to make it as versatile as it is now - primal scream? projectile spores? lerk lift? :D
Sorry but that's not the case.
There are reasons that have been mentioned many times, in threads, in Q & A etc of why costing pres to use your abilities is a bad idea. This won't be changed any time soon. Instead try to work within these constraints and provide ways to improve the current system so it works better.
If you listen to the first Q & A you will hear one lerk ability coming down the road.
And if you use your intuition you might be able to guess whats replacing BB on the lerk - hint: it does not hurt structures like the BB does. :-D
p.s. good to see you back master blaster, but you should focus your efforts back on posting/topic instead of the individuals in here, otherwise it merely worsens or encourages responses etc. leave the moderating to the moderators and if you really have a complaint you can PM any of them or us PTs. Thanks
There are reasons that have been mentioned many times, in threads, in Q & A etc of why costing pres to use your abilities is a bad idea. This won't be changed any time soon. Instead try to work within these constraints and provide ways to improve the current system so it works better.
If you listen to the first Q & A you will hear one lerk ability coming down the road.
And if you use your intuition you might be able to guess whats replacing BB on the lerk - hint: it does not hurt structures like the BB does. :-D
p.s. good to see you back master blaster, but you should focus your efforts back on posting/topic instead of the individuals in here, otherwise it merely worsens or encourages responses etc. leave the moderating to the moderators and if you really have a complaint you can PM any of them or us PTs. Thanks<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ironhorse I truly appreciate your pleasant responses to my presence on this forum and my posts. You seem to be one of the few people actually capable of talking on the internet like you would talk to someone in real life. Thank you for continuing to present yourself this way.
Need more people like you on the forum.
As for your post, the thing I miss most is the gorgeous hydra farms. They were very pretty and deadly. Hopefully the p-res issue can be alleviated one way or another.
There are reasons that have been mentioned many times, in threads, in Q & A etc of why costing pres to use your abilities is a bad idea. This won't be changed any time soon. Instead try to work within these constraints and provide ways to improve the current system so it works better.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They're not abilities, they're structures.
And this change has brought more problems than it .. I want to say fixed, but there were no problems with the previous system anyway.
The current system is ###### and people wouldn't have to provide ways to "improve it so it works better" if we simply had the superior PRes system which had no problems at all.
Not only is the new Gorge system crap, it's just plain boring to play as a gorge now.
Now if only they'd allow lerks to pick up gorges to go on a bombing run in marine base, all my most solicitous dreams would come true!
No, really.
I mean it.
Of course it sounds ludicrous at first, but just imagine the goddamn FUN!
(Abuse disclaimer: It's abuse-proof: Lerk would be able to pick gorges, but with a 10sec cooldown. Gorges, only gorges, would be able to press a button to drop the gorge. Himself. That being the gorge.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1 for teamwork
Who needs gunships when we have gorgeships.
And this change has brought more problems than it .. I want to say fixed, but there were no problems with the previous system anyway.
The current system is ###### and people wouldn't have to provide ways to "improve it so it works better" if we simply had the superior PRes system which had no problems at all.
Not only is the new Gorge system crap, it's just plain boring to play as a gorge now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm pretty sure you've been in the other prior gorge threads, so im confused, but i'll answer anyways:
They are abilities. The fact that his ability resembles a structure and is stationary does not take away the fact that it is his method of interacting with the world and using the tools given to him. No other class costs pres to use their abilities. An arms lab is far different from a hydra.
This change only has problems because it is not fully implemented. This is iterative beta development. Nothing is done in the first pass.
Problems with the old system besides the obvious being the only exception to the rule, is that it was the sole purpose of Starting Pres being so high (25), effectively skipping the early game by allowing lerks to come out in 2 min, fade in 4:30 etc. as well as some other nasty side effects that highlighted Mass tech (marines should theoretically be able to kill an alien team in time before they attempt to mass tech into Oni etc.) And of course my favorite downside: Costing Pres meant you were always locked into PermaGorge. Sure if your team dominated the map and it was late game you might be able to go lerk, but in a balanced fight, in order to be an impacting gorge you locked yourself into that role for the duration. No other class has this side effect except commanders (Which arent a class) - as there are good reasons for them to be - unlike a gorge - who may not be needed at certain points or may get bored of playing that class after 30 minutes while everyone else is playing every class.
As for "boring to play" .. like i said: Iterative beta development. <b>Be patient, my friend.</b>
(this patch already gave the gorge some love, more to come though *looks at internal build*)
I miss this most. Hydra farms are beautiful. The great sense of accomplishment when they need arcs to enter a room.
Back on topic though, glad to see the gorge getting combat ability back. We gorge players have been shafted in last few builds in terms of this. I'm a bit sad to see the lerk lose bilebomb though, since Lerk was probably the one class that felt perfect in its current state.
But to admit a mistake is a good start.
Now remove the Alien Commander.