Will we be able to drop command chairs anywhere?

Master Blaster

<div class="IPBDescription">With a community-made mod, perhaps?</div>This has taken a lot of the replayability out of the game. Rather, it has taken replayability out of the maps. The game might get boring once set strategies are in place for every single map unless commanders are given this freedom.

Just wondering.

Panigg

I'm not too familiar with marine play as I usually go alien, but what requirements do the marines have with teching? Does the CC get energy, like the hive?

If marines had to get more CCs in order to tech, this would make techpoints a well fought over territory.

Master Blaster

<!--quoteo(post=1932308:date=May 1 2012, 12:05 PM:name=Panigg)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Panigg @ May 1 2012, 12:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1932308"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not too familiar with marine play as I usually go alien, but what requirements do the marines have with teching? Does the CC get energy, like the hive?

If marines had to get more CCs in order to tech, this would make techpoints a well fought over territory.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Are you suggesting marines should have to drop more command stations in order to get upgrades? If so, good luck with that...

Panigg

Well, if marines don't have to take over techpoints I don't see why CC's have to be placed on them. I think UWE missed an opportunity here.

Master Blaster

This concerns the ability of marines in NS1 to relocate ANYWHERE they wanted. This made the gameplay EXTREMELY DYNAMIC compared with pretty much all other multiplayer games. Now for some reason we are FORCED to play on set points. It works for now maybe, but unless you are going to have 1000 maps being played this will get old and boring and stale. One improvement would be simply to accomodate the maps to this so that you could set up camp in a variety of places, but I really do not know how that would be accomplished.

Variety of gameplay is just not what it was in NS1, at least not yet.

Align

I'm not sure it made the gameplay all that much more dynamic considering how risky it was and how rarely it got used as a consequence (apart from relocating to one of the hives but we kinda already have that).

IronHorse

This sounds like this should be moved to the Mods forum.

Master Blaster

<!--quoteo(post=1932317:date=May 1 2012, 12:25 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ May 1 2012, 12:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1932317"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This sounds like this should be moved to the Mods forum.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

You mean so people don't read it?

Master Blaster

<!--quoteo(post=1932316:date=May 1 2012, 12:25 PM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ May 1 2012, 12:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1932316"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not sure it made the gameplay all that much more dynamic considering how risky it was and how rarely it got used as a consequence (apart from relocating to one of the hives but we kinda already have that).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

If I could relocate to Computer Lab on NS2_Summit I would at least try it.

Venatos

no, he means that this will not be implemented in the official game(only 3month till release, many features missing and you have to take at least 1month for balancing) and someone should start a mod for it, in case there isnt allready.(freeing the CC from techpoints is not a new idea)

Xarius

I think people exaggerate how big the impact of this mechanic was on NS gameplay. You didn't see it all that often, and the times you did see it it was usually to the same location every map. OR it was used as a ninja tactic to stay in the game, which rarely ever won you games, just delayed the inevitable. (I admit it was fun though, but it doesn't add a whole lot in terms of gameplay)

IronHorse

<!--quoteo(post=1932319:date=May 1 2012, 11:26 AM:name=Master Blaster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Master Blaster @ May 1 2012, 11:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1932319"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You mean so people don't read it?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No i mean since its a question regarding a <u><!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->MOD<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></u>.

Welcome to the forums, btw.

Master Blaster

<!--quoteo(post=1932325:date=May 1 2012, 12:33 PM:name=Xarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xarius @ May 1 2012, 12:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1932325"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->(I admit it was fun though, but it doesn't add a whole lot in terms of gameplay)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Yea who would ever want fun options in a videogame?

Sorry, just being hilarious. It's funny because its true.

On a serious note, it could work either way but I think its better to be able to build a base wherever you want. Why are videogames becoming so restricting for no reason?

Let the free market decide. If relocating works, the commanders will do it. If it does not work, they will not relocate. We don't need Omniscient, Omnipotent Social Planners to decide where we are "allowed" to build bases. That's communism.

If the final product works with the current setup then that's all well and good, but right now I find myself wanting to relocate to forbidden places on all the maps (all three of them...when we getting new maps by the way???).

F1ll3r

I also think it would be better if you could build CC where ever you want, it would also be fun if the marine start changes each time (like the hive) maybe they could combine that idea.

Different marinestarts with a CC close to the techpoints
but you're allowed to build the CC where ever you want

weezl

I think there should be two different CCs; one for techpoints with advantages, and one smaller standalone without any advantages (maybe even disatvantages).
One incentive to have the big clunky fixed ones would be to make techpoints give a smaller amount of res, as suggested in point #3 here:
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=117830" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=117830</a>

extollo

<!--quoteo(post=1932316:date=May 1 2012, 03:25 PM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ May 1 2012, 03:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1932316"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not sure it made the gameplay all that much more dynamic considering how risky it was and how rarely it got used as a consequence (apart from relocating to one of the hives but we kinda already have that).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

agree with this for the most part, but as was mentioned it was crazy and fun. so phase gates are it for establishing off techpoint outposts...

wait .. unless we could get an uber ninja remote ip capability! :)

internetexplorer

I like chairs being fixed to certain spots, because it creates a strong symmetry between chairs and hives that I think should exist. It makes the very fundamentals of map control easy to pick up, and easy to apply at any game state (without impacting all the other structures which are <i>actually </i>responsible for creating 'forward bases'). It also reduces the strain on mappers by not allowing certain areas to be ridiculously strong for turtling as soon as command chair is added to them. The game is asymmetric, but it doesn't have to be asymmetric in every regard. I really like the analogy to townhall buildings in Starcraft (with the exception of terran command centres floating) - every chair or hive is denying a chair or hive from the other team, which impacts the options that both teams have, and the strategies they're likely to choose. It's simple, yes, but it can create just enough strategic tension to keep the game interesting and easy to balance.

If having chairs fixed to 'tech points' or whatever they're called leads to stagnant strategy in the maps, it might be the fault of the maps for being too simple. Adding more tech points or creating more tradeoffs between them could spice things up. Right now, of the 3 official maps, 2 are very symmetric (in terms of geometry), and the third is more like what we would call a "2 player map" in Starcraft (teams spawn at opposite ends and inch toward one another, making expansion site choices extremely obvious). After imagining a relocate to Computer Lab, I'm of the opinion that the current maps are not designed to fit that kind of gameplay at all.

Weird chair placements and relocations were fun in NS1, but even if they would work in NS2 the game isn't ready for it yet (both in terms of maps and balance of the mechanics).

NurEinMensch

I say let's try it. A lack of omniscient omnipotent social planners is bad in the real world, but it may just work in a video game.

Zaggy

"Unlocked" CCs and Hives would be interesting.
**Moved to Mods**

Sewlek

while i don't see an issue anymore with CS attached to techpoints, i also don't see a reason to not make your life easier:

edit TechData.lua line 206 and remove:

[kStructureAttachClass] = "TechPoint"

that should make it possible to place command stations anywhere you want.

Kurrine

<!--coloro:#aadd00--><span style="color:#aadd00"><!--/coloro-->Thanks for the assistance, Sewlek I recall you trying this back in your Prototype mod, and I still have one of the last versions in my directory; Too bad it never got very large tests. I am curious how it'd go with a few of the new dynamics NS2 has over NS1, if it wouldn't look more awkward Hives anywhere would be interesting too. A new/altered model would likely be in order that attached to the ground instead if someone were to do that. Though there would be some mechanics to iron out like a minimal distance hives must be apart maybe to keep multi-hives reasonably difficult to defend.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->

1dominator1

<!--quoteo(post=1932315:date=May 1 2012, 03:20 PM:name=Master Blaster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Master Blaster @ May 1 2012, 03:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1932315"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This concerns the ability of marines in NS1 to relocate ANYWHERE they wanted. This made the gameplay EXTREMELY DYNAMIC compared with pretty much all other multiplayer games. Now for some reason we are FORCED to play on set points. It works for now maybe, but unless you are going to have 1000 maps being played this will get old and boring and stale. One improvement would be simply to accomodate the maps to this so that you could set up camp in a variety of places, but I really do not know how that would be accomplished.

Variety of gameplay is just not what it was in NS1, at least not yet.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

For what its worth at least in my experience the location of reloc would be in the majority of the cases a hive room, and that is still perfectly viable. The times you would end up in someplace like a vent were desperado last stand gambits that no one on the marine or alien team particularly cared for once the amusement value of having a CC in the vents wore off. Besides just because you COULD relocate anywhere does not mean you would, there were only so many viable spots for a base on every map not to mention that relocation was bloody expensive so was already a border strat.

Soul_Rider

With allowing the building of hives and res towers anywhere in my GorgeCraft mod, I've been more than tempted to start up a Dynamic NS2 mod, where restrictions are 1 hive/cc/rt per location on the map. Allowing them to be placed anywhere is the true dynamic NS2 that I had in mind when the game was being discussed. It would make NS2 truly a dynamic experience.

woody

<!--quoteo(post=1932811:date=May 2 2012, 08:44 PM:name=Sewlek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sewlek @ May 2 2012, 08:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1932811"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->while i don't see an issue anymore with CS attached to techpoints, i also don't see a reason to not make your life easier:

edit TechData.lua line 206 and remove:

[kStructureAttachClass] = "TechPoint"

that should make it possible to place command stations anywhere you want.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This does not work out for me-. All the better as I have run a CC spam/blocking plugin on my servers for years. Imagine being able to block entire areas of a map with just a few chairs- can you say server killer

Kurrine

<!--coloro:#aadd00--><span style="color:#aadd00"><!--/coloro-->I dont know if the feature will be permanent, but with how it is currently set up, you couldn't spam CCs too easily as you have to build them all before they were touched, blocking with them would be a waste of time mostly.

Edit: Also without someone in them they're basically a ramp...<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->